Mollify = to put at ease

BTW:

Would I do it of there were no hubby, or if hubby was opposed to it? He77 no.

does NOT equate to:

Hubby? To satisfy his Attractive Spouse EN (usually #3 of Top 5)?

Good Lord! Between entangling myself on tummy-tucks here (No) and colonoscopies above (Yes) I feel like Dr. Oz!

No more! Cut, don't cut...I should NOT be discussing!

Colonoscopies...I'll take a tummy tuck over a colonoscopy thank you.

I don't know what will satisfy H's PA EN, obviously. Just not me as is. Guess I'm just 'filling in the blanks' as always.

Not against your decision to up your rating to get closer to a 10.

Surgery is the fast way. Though why can you not bring about the change through eating better and exercise?

Exercise will make you healthier and get your whole body better looking because you will be toned head to toe.

To me, $8,000 is a lot of money to spend on what can be done through exercise and diet.

I am 5'10 and wear a size 8. I am about mid range on the range of appropriate weight for my height. I do workout when I can, run and do p90x, but i have had this painful heel issue the last 6 months that has prevented much of that. I also have an active recreational lifestyle. So...I completely concur with you in the theory, but stretched skin and stretch marks do not go away with ab ripper x or any other kind of diet and exercise. Spoken from experience.

I am doing a tummy tuck because of pregnancy damage, not lipo to get rid of fat. That would fall more under your theory I imagine.

That being said I drink a lot of Mt Dew. Trying to cut that out and drink water (ok caffeine tainted water!). More an attempt to go into surgery w NO extra weight as it seems to me it would make the best likely outcome.

Not saying I don't need to give up Mt Dew and exercise more, right now I am slacking. Have to buck up and just deal w the heel pain. But I am just saying I am not looking for surgery to get rid of FAT, on that I completely agree.

the effects of bearing 3 children do not simply go away through diet & exercise. a proper diet & healthy exercise is good, but does virtually nothing for the loose skin & stretch marks that are the result from multiple pregnancies. the celebrities you see in bikinis that look fab? they've all had mini-tucks after birth, the lucky bitches. plus, they're all photoshopped anyway, even the caught-on-the-street-looking-natural photos.

you can look great in clothes, but naked, that loose skin is always there.

we get a UK show here called "embarrassing bodies." it's about, mostly, people who have some condition that they are either too embarrassed to see a doctor about, or their doctor has followed the "wait and see what happens" approach. what's great about it is seeing all the normal, regular bodies (it's astonishing at how many varieties there are!). there was a woman on the last programme who had lost a good deal of weight all on her own with diet & exercise. not like 100lbs worth, but a good deal. she looked incredibly thin and chic - like a high society lady. but when her clothes were off, her body looked like that of a 90yo (she was 40). all loose, wrinkly skin hanging everywhere - arms, torso, legs. the poor thing. she had skin removal from arms/legs & tummy tuck.

uw, if the TT will make you feel great, then do it. it will take care of the issue you're having w/the tum after 3 lovely babies. it sucks to live in a society where your labours (pun!) are not celebrated. instead, we are held to a standard of beauty that is manufactured, not natural.

You crack me up Letty with your 'lucky bxxxxes' lol.

I am soooo on the fence about it really. I am self conscious about my mama tummy. It is def my 'weak spot' physically. And you are right, no amount of diet and exercise can get it back in bikini shape.

I kid about the bikini, who knows if I'll ever wear one again. Ya ok I probably will... But even in cute tight dresses and other clothes, not to mention LINGERIE, holy crap I love lingerie and I can't wear half of it because it shows my tummy and I don't like it.

I don't like having a weak spot and being self conscious, I have historically been very confident in myself and my body, so that lack of confidence in all areas bothers me.

That being said, I do dread the surgery. I do worry about something going wrong and about the painful recovery. I do feel guilt for doing something so vain. There are people right here on this forum struggling to pay their bills, and I am going to spend $8000 on vanity??? Seems so selfish. I am very generous IRL, so it is very opposite my personality to do something like that. I do worry about the message it will send to my beautiful 11 yr old daughter. I do worry about the impact it will have on my marriage. We are at a weak spot and I will be in recovery for weeks, unable to fill needs ya know? I mean thats short term to fill a long term goal of meeting the PA need, but in the short term H will have to care for me, and he is VERY BAD at that. Historically, when I have been sick or in some way needed care, he has treated me like a leper. In fact, when I was on bedrest with my first pregnancy that is when he began his wayward behavior. So I worry it will short term make him unattracted to me, make me feel uncared for and basically put a wrench between us. Which we really can't have right now. (But he says this is all not true, that he has learned what an azz he was and how uncaring he has been, and is looking forward for the opportunity to prove that to me by giving me great care this time.)

Also, as much as I hate having a mama tummy in general, I do have some emotional attachment to it. OK let me explain that cause that sounds crazy. If you have ever seen CARS (I think the second one) where Mater says he doesn't want to lose his dents because they tell a story about his life...my mama tummy tells a story about MY life. My first pregnancy was a killer, I was put on bedrest at 20 weeks. They were sure I was about to deliver and likely would lose my daughter. We counted each day as one more day of allowing her a better chance of life. Meanwhile, I laid in bed except for a quick shower and bathroom breaks for months. I ended up carrying her for 41 weeks! (ya I know, how the heck did THAT happen...) I gained over 60lbs (poor food brought to me by others, literally NO activity) and stretched my 6 pack out until it was unrecognizable...but at the end I had a beautiful little girl. That was bigger than my body, ya know? Two more pregnancies, two beautiful healthy little boys. Yep, it looks like a war zone. I affectionately refer to stretch marks as 'battle scars' lol. getting that all chopped off and thrown in the garbage seems like spitting on the good fortune and blessing I have, disrespecting the body that gave me these wonders. Just so H can have a stepford wife that looks as if she never had kids, and I and my ego can walk about in my bikini.

I know I TOTALLY over think things!!!

None of the 'pros' disappear, nor do any of the 'cons.' I just don't want to be thinking about it a year, 5 yrs, 10 yrs from now. Figure if I just bite the bullet and do it and move on it is a non issue. 6 months from now will come in the blink of an eye whether I go through the procedure or not. Might as well just do it and put it behind me.

uw, if the TT will make you feel great, then do it.

Really, Letty? Just blow off POJA because.....? Okay, then......

From note one on this topic, I've tried to remind UW the vital point Dr H made in HNHN: A wife should go out of her way to increase her attractiveness and visual appearance is ways that are important to, and align with the desires of, HER HUSBAND!

TWICE UW has basically admitted that her inclination toward spending $8,000 of their funds is, at BEST, a guess on her part of what MIGHT more thoroughly satisfy hubby. Doesn't sound much like enthusiastic agreement!

Look, it ain't my money, and it ain't my tummy (which would need much more than $8,000) but this is Marriage Builders, and the principles behind it should be what we do, discuss, and consider here. Or am I wrong?

(And this time i mean it! No more posts from NG about cosmetic surgery!)

um...i was under the impression the surgery had been POJAd? i thought it had been, and of the two, it was UW who was less than enthusiastic. i'm lost???

had to scroll back up to read UWs post.

ok, i *personally* don't think UW should do it, because *she* is not enthusiastic about it (or is she? i dunno at this point).

i was under the, apparently mistaken, impression that H wanted UW to have this surgery.

applying MB principles, that is the simple reason it should not happen: because UW is not enthusiastic, despite claims of wanting said surgery.

however, if H has not requested this surgery (and don't even get me started on that), then it should not happen because he has not enthusiastically agreed either.

in summary, there is no agreement or even a request?

in which case, now my head is spinning and i am totally lost. how did we end up scheduling a surgery that nobody wants?

i've already posted my thoughts on the surgery itself, so no more discussion from me about that.

i hereby respectfully excuse myself from this conversation, as apparently i have no idea what's going on.

That's alright Letty, I never know what's going on.

NG is confused. H is enthusiastic about the surgery. You are correct that I am 'less' enthusiastic about the surgery.

I am enthusiastic about the results, however.

I am not going against POJA. H has expressed numerous times that if he could physically change one thing, it would be my mama tummy. And he has, as we all know, rated me poorly in the PA department in the past. And he also, as we surely all know, had a lack of SF interest, which is potentially PA related (and my top need...of course). He is enthusiastic about and supportive of the surgery.

Yes I am eternally confused about him and his needs, no question. Specifically the PA need. Originally he didn't even put it that high as a need. He then put it as a high need yet rated me fairly low on it. He has told me OW3 was because of my lack of PA meeting. Then he has said he takes that back. He has said he wants me to be P90X fit. Then he has said he didn't really 'mean' that. Now he sometimes will say he must have been crazy to rate me low on PA because I am
stunning. But then we will go back to square one.

He is a conflict avoider. He has, IMO, moments where he lets his guard down and tells
me how he really feels, and in those moments the hard to hear things come out. Then, he decides that might cause conflict, and says he didn't mean any of it and I am fine. Major, major lack of O&H. And it keeps me constantly guessing, reaching for some goal that is in the shadows.

So what can I say. We are all confused.

It does all make me feel bad. But I also think sometimes it is just HIM. He is a consummate comparer, always looking for greener grass. Always looking for a better house, better job... I think sometimes he will just never accept what he has. As I tell my middle child (who is very similar to his dad) if you are looking for the negative you will always find it. There is always something. Is H always going to look for something? In which case he will always find it.

But then, that opinion is a big DJ. So I am left just trying to fill his needs based on his most recent description of them.

So it seems that maybe you aren't in enthusiastic agreement about meeting his need for PA in this particular way (tummy tuck). If you decide to not do it now, you always have a chance to do it later. If you choose to do it now, you won't be able to undo it. Wait until you know that YOU are enthusiastic, too, for if any complications occur, would the resentment that would come be worth it?

I just want to thank everyone for all of your help over the last year. I have been here almost a year, almost every day, if not posting at least reading and learning. Although I still could have done a lot to lead the process of recovery, and I certainly was not perfect, I did put a lot of thought and effort into learning how to be a better wife and how to have a better marriage. I did try very hard to walk away from the mountain of resentment.

But that cannot happen if the mountain is being added to, which it has been. In continued neglect and lack of care. Things are 'better' in the fact that they couldn't get much worse, but I have some great marriages to compare to here on this board, and I know THIS marriage will never be one of these.

Bottom line is, perhaps some BS's can be the driver of recovery. I have found that I cannot. I have added resentment because I have been expected to drive, expected to lead. Expected to FIX THIS, while the man who neglected me for a decade and had sex with a skank in a hotel room, just comes along for the ride.

If I sit him down in a chair and put a pencil in his hand, will he fill out a questionairre here or there? Sure. But that does NOT equal hat in hand, and it does not equal care. It does not make me feel loved, or cared for or protected. And it certainly does not make me feel SAFE. In fact, I can't even remember what any of those things feel like anymore, my entire marriage has been riddled with the opposite.

Thank you for all of your help, and for all of your care. I feel like some of you have cared more about my marriage than my H has. I cannot lead this process anymore. I cannot even attempt to lead, it leaves me feeling ever increasingly resentful and uncared for to do so.

TODAY H signs up for the accountability program. After 2 1/2 yrs of asking him to do so, and him being unenthusiastic about it because (fill in the blank with any number of lame excuses). TODAY he signs up, without talking to me, without POJAing it. Once again, trying to use this program to manipulate me in a frenzy of damage control. Until probably yesterday I would have jumped on the opportunity, been impressed with this method. Today, it seems absolutely worthless.

My LB is in the red.

I don't even belong in recovery, and I certainly don't have the right to be counseling anyone else on these forums.

To all my recovery peeps, I'll be checking in on you here and there

Unwritten

unwritten,

You, like the rest of us, deserved to be loved, cared for and feel safe in your marriage. When you look back on this past year, may you be able to look on it knowing that you did all that you could to save your marriage. I'm sorry that you find yourself in this position after such a fight.

God bless you

These dang low moments, UW!!

This one sounds wicked low. Sorry for that.

Protect yourself. Be well.

mss

You are one of the best posters on these forums, supplying solid Harley-based advice with wisdom and care. Don't you dare leave!

And you don't have to give a crap or be impressed by H's signing up to the online programme - today. Just let him get on with it and let the coaches do their job with him. You might feel different tomorrow or the day after.

Hugs and prayers to you, written.