And I didn't see anyone suggest that you or your current beau needed to stay or rekindle your marriages, what was suggested was that you needed to DIVORCE BEFORE DATING.

You are not a good mother if you continue to cheat. Divorce before you date.

How many times have you mentioned your kids in your original post? Once, maybe twice?

You STAY with a POSOM who plays games all day long and cheats on you with other women. If he were single this would be bad enough, but he is still married which is WORSE! Heck, he's probably "cheating on you" with his wife! Any guy who hasn't divorced after that long must just be waffling between wife and lurrrve soul-mate other woman.

That is not a good father. Your kids deserve better than that!

Why did your husband put a keylogger on your computer? What was it about your behavior that he was monitoring?

If you started dating baby daddy only six months after leaving your husband, and you said you dated before baby daddy, then did you leave your husband for another man (a man before baby daddy?)

I would strongly encourage you to look at yourself as not a Play Station Widow, but more like baby daddy's used up maid.

Your are his maid, mother, and financial provider. He will continue to abuse you in the most horrific way because frankly he has a pretty nice life.

I am sorry you have such little respect for yourself. I do thank you for the insight. I hope other woman and WW are able to use you as an example of what not to do. I believe we can learn a lot from you and your bad choices.

Several of the folks who posted to you are in Plan B/D with their WS. That wasn't the point and you KNOW IT ~ so cut it out.


We have already established that you aren't divorced.
It is this type of self-deception/fog/denial that actually makes me pretty certain you ARE NOT doing what's best for your children.

For any lurkers, Dr Harley (you know, the guy whose principles and books are the foundation for this entire website) would advise you NOT TO DATE during the pendency your divorce and he would actually advise you NOT TO DATE even after the divorce until your children are grown to avoid putting them through exactly what you are putting them through - another train wreck.

Just to an observation here from a resident MB jackal

Just because you want to spend the rest of your life with your low life boyfriends does not mean he wants the same thing too. You can want it all year long but his actions speak volumes, he rather have sex with an invisible woman on a game network than invest any time or effort looking after his daughter or work on your relationship, but to you that screams out good dad and great life partner?

Am I the only one who thinks this is not what commitment and a happy relationship should be like?

I am sorry you are hurting and that you are in the position you find yourself in right now but lets be clear NO ONE here wants you to suffer or mentioned either of you staying married. The message is clear, clear your baggage before getting involved with other people and dragging kids into more drama.

You managed to sort out a civil visitation/ parental relationship with your husband yet can't communicate work together to divorce amicably without dragging out the process and spending thousands?

If our comments are making you angry it's because you know there is a point and truth in them. People get defensive and run when they don't want to hear the hard truth, you got a choice here, carry on running and trying to work at a doomed relationship with a direspectful lying cheater or get your life together and get yourself out of this mess.

You loved your husband once and promised to love him and be with him for the rest of your life yet you walked away after so many years together because of his unfaithfulness.

I'm sure you can find the strength to walk out on a 1 year half committed relationship.

This would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Two men - both cheaters & neglectful, etc. PSW argues out one side of her mouth why not working on the relationship was better for the kids and then argues out the other side of her mouth why it is better for the child to stay and try to make it work.



Translation: It's all about what I want. I want the current loser I am with.

Absolutely Susie - she is a full blown addict.

She left her first husband for some man, and then that fizzles, as an addict she went and searched for her next HIGH. Baby daddy gave her such a HIGH in the beginning ... she felt the "soulmate" delusion.

Now she is still HIGH because clearly this man can fill her EN's in such a sick and twisted way she refuses to see reality.

Her HIGH is strong and she will continue living in the crack house with him until something extremely tragic happens.

I am going to conclude her bottom is China.

Until this baby daddy stops filling her EN's she will remain HIGH on him until enough is enough.

She is the low bottom wayward. She may have to lose absolutely everything and then some to wake up.

I have a feeling her BH is enabling her in some sick and twisted way as well. I am going to pray her BH finds this website and maybe just maybe something can be done for her two children.

No Susie he's is definitely NOT the loser in this situation, he gets a married woman who he does not have to commit too (cause lets face it they are both still legally committed to their spouses so perfect excuse not to marry her or even ask her to marry him), who financially supports him, who puts up and believes in his babble and unfaithfulness and loves him unconditionally weather he plays play station all day or decides to sample other women he meets. That is the perfect cake eaters life. And I bet you she also provides him with food and drink while he sits on his cushty backside all day and does NOTHING useful to anyone.

So in case you haven't got the gist he definitely is NOT the looser and unfortunately this Lady and her kids will be the casualties in this scenario but definitely not him.

I know you're getting roughed up here Widow and you're not hearing what you'd hoped.

You got seduced by a practiced seducer. You were vulnerable and wanted to believe in LOVE.

It's going to take strength to clean this up but seriously...are you really going to bend over even more to accommodate this slacker/cheater of yours? He is not loving you!! He is using and abusing you and you're taking it.

Start making an exit strategy. Life is short and this is a losing proposition.

So sorry. I know you're hurting.

Okay, this is long, but I'm trying to share the details, if anyone cares to listen. I wasn't going to come back, but being called all sorts of nasty things has me feeling very hurt and defensive. So I'll explain what I can, feel how you want about me, I do not intend to stay in this forum.

No, I'm not hearing what I had hoped. I had hoped I could come here and get some advice on how to save a relationship that is really important to me, and all I'm getting is being called a bad mother and an addict, and a cheater, and being told that I should just call this a failed dating experiment and who cares about the child we have together, and my other children who have bonded with this man. Because a mortgage company and money are standing in my way of finalizing my divorce, I shouldn't bother to try to save this one. I was married to my ex for eight years, seven of which we spent trying to salvage something that was, in the end, unsalvagable. I tried�for seven years�we tried counselling multiple times. We tried the MB concepts. He was unwilling to live up to any of the conditions I gave him. (For the person who asked why he put a keylogger on my computer�honestly, I have no idea. I have never cheated, and never understood how people could be unfaithful. My best guess is that it was because he felt guilty about what he was doing, and had transferred that back on me. Whenever we had a fight, he always turned things back on me to deflect the blame from himself, so it must have been something like that: �If I'm cheating, she obviously must be too!� You have all called me a cheater, but I have never, ever cheated on anyone I was in a relationship with. My marriage, for all intents and purposes, has been over for years. But it was 2 years before I was ever with anyone else, so no, I don't consider myself a cheater, and I definitely did NOT leave him for another man.) I was in a deep depression by the end of it. I wanted it to work, for my sake and for my children's sake, and he was unwilling to change. He left. Not me. I agreed it was for the best, so it was mutual, but it is not what I wanted. Of course I wanted it to work out. But after so many years of trying everything I could, and for him to still be cheating and neglecting me and the kids, I had to choose happiness. I had to choose moving on. He has since moved on as well. We are better friends than we ever were partners, and for that I am grateful because my kids have adjusted very well. It is better for us to be apart, than to see me crying every day, and hear us fighting, and to know they weren't important enough for him to try to be around. After he left, they didn't even notice a difference, since it had always been just me and them�he was never there, and they didn't miss him. Their relationship with him is much better now, since he is required to have them two days a week.

After he left, we drew up an agreement, it was one of those do-it-yourself divorce packages. All the terms were laid out, agreed upon, except our mortgage company would not accept that agreement because it didn't specify terms on the property (the house we owned.) And we couldn't move from legally separated to divorced until the property was settled. The agreement was that I would stay in the house with the kids, to make things easier on them, and on me, since I wasn't working at the time. But the mortgage company wanted a lawyer-drafted agreement. The retainer for the lawyer was in the thousands of dollars. My ex owed me money for a travel trailer we owned, and I was waiting on that money to use to pay the lawyer. It took him over TWO YEARS to give me even a portion of it, but I finally got it and got the agreement with the lawyer drafted. Now it is in the final stages�finally�and now we go back to the mortgage company. Then I have to pay thousands MORE dollars for them to take his name off the mortgage. Then we can file the papers and be divorced. I know many of you seem to think it was irresponsible of me to date while all this was going on but...the agreement was done, we had both moved on, and we both want this to get finalized. We will not reconcile. So in my opinion, yes I am divorced. A signature by a mortgage company was not something I felt I had to wait for in order to move on with my life and be happy. My marriage was, and is, over. You can disagree with this, that's fine. But honestly, that has no bearing on my current situation.

I waited almost 2 years before dating. I didn't date because I wanted to concentrate on my kids, on going back to school, and on getting a job so I could support myself and my family. Around 2 years being apart from my ex, I had one short-lived relationship. After that ended, I met my current beau. We were friends for 6 months before we even considered a relationship. For my kids' sake, he didn't even meet them for several months. I didn't want them to bond with another person, and have that not work out, and have to go through all of that again. During the 6 months of our friendship, I felt like I really knew him. He seemed so honest, and genuine, and we'd both been hurt in the past, and bonded over that. I resisted dating him. I didn't want to bother with men for a long, long time. But he told me he was different. He wasn't like all those other men from my past (my ex wasn't the first to cheat on me.) I could trust him, and he would be there for me and my kids�emotionally, mentally, financially, everything. Maybe I shouldn't have fallen for it, but I did. I'd never been so happy, I finally had someone in my life who was going to treat me the way I'd always wanted to be treated. And he did treat me that way.

And then, I got pregnant. It was not planned, we were using protection, but it happened. He swore he would be there with me through it, so we decided to keep the baby. Just when I started to feel happy about the situation, I had a miscarriage with many complications. It destroyed me. I was really depressed, and having a hard time grieving, and it took a long time to physically heal from it. I wasn't even partly over it when we discussed if we would ever have another baby. He said he wasn't going anywhere�this was a forever thing. Probably not the best decision I ever made, but our relationship was fantastic, and we got pregnant again. It was a hard pregnancy for me because I was still healing from the miscarriage. I am an introverted person to begin with, and was still depressed, and have mild Asperger's, so I had a hard time communicating to him about how I was feeling, and a distance started to develop. He chose to deal with this by getting sucked into online poker, and venting to this girl that he had met in the medical clinic, and things went downhill from there.

Now it's Playstation Home, and here I find myself in a relationship that has honestly been more like a marriage than my marriage ever was (hence the reason I came to this site.) But the distance has gotten so great, and he's gotten so sucked into his coping methods�PS, sexting, online porn, etc�that I don't know how to close it again. Where before he was in this 100%, he has no withdrawn to the point that, yeah, he's a freeloader. That upsets me a lot. But it's important to me to try to save this if it can be saved, since we do have a child together. Even if we aren't married, I don't want to throw it away since we were so good together before. I don't want my youngest child to have to deal with what my older children have, and I don't want my older children to have to watch another man walk out on us. Any time I have tried to discuss what is bothering me, he denies any wrongdoing, and nothing gets accomplished. I feel powerless because I want to be close to him again, but he doesn't give me the opportunity. Yet he says he still loves me, and wouldn't be here if he didn't want to be with me, and he wants to be better, but the steps to getting there have been so gradual that they're barely noticeable. And each time I get frustrated with that, he pulls back altogether and we're back to step 1. And I feel like if I had undeniable proof that he's being dishonest, it would help me decide whether or not this relationship can be saved after all. But snooping feels wrong to me. So I just don't know what to do.

I realize you all think I'm a bad person for getting into this relationship when I did. But I did not leave my ex-husband for this or any other man. He was cheating, he was lying, and we ended the relationship and I did not date for years afterwards. No the divorce is not final, but it may as well be. It will be final, hopefully soon, when I can scrape the money together to do it. But I'm not willing to take food out of my kids' mouths in order to do it. It would be ideal if it could have been finalized by now, and we tried to on our own, but financially it was not doable for me until recently, and I wasn't willing to put my life on hold any longer for the sake of money. It also would have been ideal if that marriage had worked out. I wish that it had, but no matter what we did, it wasn't going to work out. Hell, it would have been ideal if I hadn't been young and stupid and married him in the first place. But I did, and I dealt with the fallout. And I will deal with the fallout of this as well, if it goes the same way. So many of the same things keep happening, and I guess I'm hoping to find a way to deal with them better than I did the first time. Nothing I did could get him to want to change, so I'm trying to find out how we went wrong and maybe this time, things will be different. The first time, I read almost every article on this website, and tried so many of the concepts, and nothing changed. I guess I'd hoped I could get some useful advice on how to keep this one from going the way of the first one. I'm hurt incredibly by the dishonesty and distance I feel from a man I love so much, and wasn't expecting to seek out support and be even more hurt and beaten up by total strangers who think it's their place to judge me and call me a cheater and an addict.

So no, it is not what I wanted to hear when I come here and the focus is on my past when what I'm trying to do is prevent my past from happening again. Have I always made the right choices? No. Have any of us always made the best choices? I doubt it. But does that mean that I should just kick this guy out? Just because we're not �actually married�? Even though we have a child together who would be affected if he left? And two other children who have lived with him for a year and a half? (Also, just wondering the exact number of times I needed to mention my kids in my original post in order to qualify as a �good mother�?) Because my original problem I don't think it's worth throwing away, and yes I do love him. Maybe that makes me stupid. But is it okay for him to cheat and be dishonest just because we're not married? And it's okay not to try? And I'm just a horrible person in general, for not wanting to be cheated on by the man I love? Go ahead and think what you want of me, but if the purpose of this forum is to help people and support people, you all are failing miserably. It is not constructive to belittle and name-call, and judge the character of people based on an internet message board post. And to call me a bad mother just put such a bad taste in my mouth I can guarantee that I will not seek support here again. I take pride in how amazing my children are�they are my life, and anyone who thinks they know anything about my competency as a parent based on how many times I mention my kids in a post, or thinks they know anything about how hard I had tried to save my marriage based on such limited information, are not the kind of people I'm interested in getting any advice from. I am hurt, but I know damn well I am a good mother, and I know I'm a good partner, because I put the effort in. That's why I'm still with him. If it all goes to seed, so be it, but I won't let that happen until I've done all I can do. That's why I came here, but I awfully sorry I did now.

You're NOT a good partner or you would not be seeking advice about your ADULTEROUS relationship with a MARRIED MAN.

We can help you here, but the first step is admitting that your relationship was WRONG to begin with.

Do you have 30 minutes?

Watch this by Dr. Harley.
Video:Infidelity:What Every Couple Needs to Know

karmasrose: Did you even read any of what I wrote? I too, feel like I'm bashing my head against a wall.

I read it, alright.

It was the same thing as in most of your other posts.

You make the same choices, over and over, and yet you expect things to be different.

You have to DO different to GET different.

Step one is leaving this married cheating loser and focusing on your kids ONLY for a while.

But you don't think it's hypocritical that people say it was wrong of me to "not work on my marriage" because of what it would do to my kids...and then at the same time say "leave this married cheating loser" even though we have a child together? I shouldn't try for her sake, but I should have tried harder for my older two's sake? So this child doesn't matter because we're not "actually married"?

This child matters. And BECAUSE this child matters, you should leave him. He's doing ZIP for her anyway and she is better off with just you.

You might have had a chance. But the thing is, he cheated on his wife, he's cheating on you, he sits on his rear doing nothing all day but playing games and cybering. What, exactly, would you be saving? Do you really want a loser like that around?

And I am trying to DO different. I don't want this to end the same way my marriage did. That's the whole point of me coming here in the first place. I didn't realize the philosophy was "you're not actually married, so ditch him and don't try." I want to avoid the same outcome I experienced the last time, that's why I came to seek advice...

We are saying to DITCH him because he is married. Because he is cheating. Even if he was single, this is the job interview. If you bugger up the interview, you generally don't get hired.

Your marriage has not ended, by the way.

PSwidow .. Sorry you are here .. but regardless of the 2x4s your getting ... this can be turned around. I feel for you and your new baby .. dealing with the situation you have on hand. Have you read the basics here? have you read any of dr. harleys books? His needs Her Needs is a great start ... Buyers Renters and freeeloaders is good .. and so is love busters .. and Fall in love stay in love AND His needs her needs FOR PARENTS!

Snooping is a MUST! stop feeling guilty about it .. you have every right to know everything that is going on in your life. ESPECIALLY with this man who influences your children and is the father to be of your new baby.

Maybe write up a letter to your STBH (soon to be hubby)? Your situation (not being married etc) will be a challenge but if its what you want you gotta get HIM onboard with MB. You have to sell it ... get some questionairs and print them out ... 2x of each one (available on the site here in the questionaris section) get the ENQ the LBQ and the PHQ. Fill them out .. and exchange them.

Oh and Make sure to SNOOP! ... get a key logger on the PC.

MNG