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Mrs WLD,
Did you read any of my posts?
I know it's crowded and you might prefer some of the other posters who are helping you, so if nothing I'm saying is helpful, I can just move on and post to others.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Melody... Did you read my post...? OH MY. What an utter waste of valuable time. You could be spending your time making the present GREAT and you are squandering it by bringing past unpleasantness into the present. I am even more convinced your counselor does not know what she is doing. "Some counselors think it's a good idea to "resolve issues of the past" by talking about them week after week, month after month, year after year. It keeps these counselors in business, but does nothing to resolve the issue. In fact, it usually makes their poor clients chronically depressed.
My experience as a Clinical Psychologist has proven to me that dredging up unpleasant experiences of the past merely brings the unhappiness of the past into the present. The problems of the present are difficult enough to solve without spending time and energy trying to resolve issues of the past, which are essentially unresolvable. You can make your future happy, but you can't do a thing about bad experiences of the past, except think and talk about them -- and that makes the bad experiences of the past, bad experiences of the present." Dr. Willard Harley hereAs a clinical psychologist who has been in direct therapy with 50,000 individuals and supervised over 600 counselors, I have not found that resolving issues of the past does much to help people deal with issues of the present. In most cases I've witnessed, it makes matters worse because it drags the most unpleasant experiences of the past into the present. I know that my perspective is in conflict with many therapists who are trained to treat the past before they can treat the present, but I have yet to see any convincing evidence that this approach is more effective than letting the past stay in the past. My personal experience is that dredging up the past actually increases the risk of suicide and other dangerous symptoms of mental disorders. Another important reason that I am opposed to bringing up issues of the past is that it wastes time. When you could be forming an effective plan and putting the plan into motion to resolve an issue of the present, you spend months, and even years focused on the past while the problems of the present keep building up, eventually burying the client. In your situation, I strongly recommend that you not waste your time talking about the past. And don't try analyzing your husband. I know that his affair was a terrible shock to your system, and you want to feel closure. You have been terribly disillusioned by what he did, but the best you can do under the circumstances is look to the future instead of the past. Don't discuss the past with your husband or anyone else for a while, and see if you don't agree with me that it helps improve your relationship and it also causes you to be more relaxed. Focusing on the past causes depression, while focusing on the future with an eye to making it successful causes optimism and gives you energy. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2413831#Post2413831An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. hereOne of the reasons I'm not so keen on dredging up the past as a part of therapy is that it brings up memories that carry resentment along with them. If I'm not careful, a single counseling session can open up such a can of worms that the presenting problem gets lost in a flood of new and painful memories. If the goal of therapy is to "resolve" every past issue, that seems to me to be a good way to keep people coming for therapy for the rest of their lives. That's because it's an insurmountable goal. We simply cannot resolve everything that's ever bothered us. Instead, I tend to focus my attention on the present and the future, because they are what we can all do something about. The past is over and done with. Why waste our effort on the past when the future is upon us. Granted, it's useful to learn lessons from the past, but if we dwell on the past, we take our eyes off the future which can lead to disaster. I personally believe that therapy should focus most attention, not on the past, but on ways to make the future sensational. here
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Mrs WLD, I think a lot of times when a marriage is not fulfilling, people want to take refuge in finding something that they like. In Dr. Harley's terminology, your Taker wakes up and says "It's my turn! Let's do something for me for a change!" Your husbands angry outbursts are absolutely unacceptable. And your unfaithfulness a decade ago is absolutely not an issue any more. Dr. Harley's plan for recovery is not "the wayward spouse bows and scrapes for the rest of their life because of their sin." Dr. Harley suggests what he calls Just Compensation, which essentially means doing the things that will lead to a great marriage. And Dr. Harley quickly adds that Just Compensation is not something that will HURT. It's something that would be wonderful for you as well, because you would finally get the marriage you are made for. The obstacle to you guys having a great marriage is not your unfaithfulness ten years ago. (Here's what Dr. Harley has to say about that: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5062_qa.html) It is love busters, like your husband's angry outbursts. Here is one reason I would fire your counselor: Dr. Harley takes a ZERO TOLERANCE stance toward angry outbursts. They should not be infrequent. They should never happen AT ALL. I would write to Dr. Harley at his radio show and ask him for help getting your husband involved in taking responsibility for eliminating his angry outbursts. You cannot and should not continue to endure this. With a happy marriage, you won't have so much of a "Time to do something for ME!" feeling, because everything you and your husband do will make you both happy! Yes, I teared up when I read this... As I often feel that I am "bowing and scraping". My life is an open book, all passwords are common knowledge... Yet he has done things that have made ME feel I secure and when I brought them up, he gets defensive about it. Do I think he is having an affair...? No. BUT he isn't taking care of my ENs either. I have a RIGHT to question him if his behavior hurts me. I do NOT deserve the defensive reactions I get...
Weez Oh, so you dug way, way, deep down in your heart and found the love still there!?! Our 7 year old upon hearing that we weren't getting a divorce
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[ Yes, I teared up when I read this... As I often feel that I am "bowing and scraping". My life is an open book, all passwords are common knowledge... Yet he has done things that have made ME feel I secure and when I brought them up, he gets defensive about it. Do I think he is having an affair...? No. BUT he isn't taking care of my ENs either. I have a RIGHT to question him if his behavior hurts me. I do NOT deserve the defensive reactions I get... What I don't understand is why you have never used this program? You and I joined at the same time. You could have used this program to recover your marriage but you didn't. Why not?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Melody... We used a LOT of this program to recover. We have done an EN questionnaire every few years. But life throws interesting curves... 4 years ago he was diagnosed with colon cancer. He had surgery and is cancer free. Having reality thrown in my face was a wake up call. Little things didn't but me anymore, I was going out of my way to meet his EN's Nd wa happy to do so. But time has a way of making us feel too "comfortable", I fall back into the same pattern that since I am the WS, I can't dock the boat too much... After all he DID take me back. So now I recognize that I am not happy. I even recognize that the real issue here isn't even my tatoo but that I feel lost and alone in my marriage and this place worked for us once... WITH OUR COUNSELOR... So here I am again...
Weez Oh, so you dug way, way, deep down in your heart and found the love still there!?! Our 7 year old upon hearing that we weren't getting a divorce
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Lol, sorry about the typos, I am doing the best I can on my phone...
Weez Oh, so you dug way, way, deep down in your heart and found the love still there!?! Our 7 year old upon hearing that we weren't getting a divorce
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Lol, sorry about the typos, I am doing the best I can on my phone... Gotcha! Well, we can help you turn this around this time if you will stick with this. The EN questionaires are about 1/10000th of the program though. Used alone they are useless so you probably don't think this program really works. The program needs to be worked in its entirety in order to work properly. What the program will achieve is it will restore the romantic love to your marriage. The first place I would start would be lovebusters because you both lovebust each other ALOT. Can you pick up the books Lovebusters, FAll in Love, Stay in Love and the Five Steps to romantic love workbook? If you can do that, we can help you turn this around. But you really have to do the work this time.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I just want to point out that your counselor does not understand the program and didn't help you recover. I am not saying that to be mean, but the fact that you are in a marriage where the lovebusters are so bad is proof of how good your counselor is. Instead she wastes your time chatting about your childhood.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Thank you and we are going to have to agree to disagree on the subject of our counselor. I do know this program works or I woildn't have come back. I will order a few books as soon as I have access to a REAL computer... Sorry iPhone!!
Weez Oh, so you dug way, way, deep down in your heart and found the love still there!?! Our 7 year old upon hearing that we weren't getting a divorce
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Mrs WLD,
Dr. Harley has written a book for counselors, entitled "Effective Marriage Counseling". My H and I recommended it to his Veteran's PTSD counselor and he now uses MB techniques in all his couples counseling. You said before that your counselor knows about MB. Does she have this book?
It is clear that you and your husband both love bust. Usually, the first thing a couple should do is to avoid hurting each other. Maybe, you didn't really recover the marriage after the affair or maybe you weren't keeping up with the things that keep a marriage passionate and happy. It doesn't really matter if both of you would start working on the program. How would your husband feel about it?
AM
BW - 70 WH - 65 M - 35 years D-day - 17 Apr 08 H broke contact 11/1/09 Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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Mrs WLD, I think a lot of times when a marriage is not fulfilling, people want to take refuge in finding something that they like. In Dr. Harley's terminology, your Taker wakes up and says "It's my turn! Let's do something for me for a change!" Your husbands angry outbursts are absolutely unacceptable. And your unfaithfulness a decade ago is absolutely not an issue any more. Dr. Harley's plan for recovery is not "the wayward spouse bows and scrapes for the rest of their life because of their sin." Dr. Harley suggests what he calls Just Compensation, which essentially means doing the things that will lead to a great marriage. And Dr. Harley quickly adds that Just Compensation is not something that will HURT. It's something that would be wonderful for you as well, because you would finally get the marriage you are made for. The obstacle to you guys having a great marriage is not your unfaithfulness ten years ago. (Here's what Dr. Harley has to say about that: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5062_qa.html) It is love busters, like your husband's angry outbursts. Here is one reason I would fire your counselor: Dr. Harley takes a ZERO TOLERANCE stance toward angry outbursts. They should not be infrequent. They should never happen AT ALL. I would write to Dr. Harley at his radio show and ask him for help getting your husband involved in taking responsibility for eliminating his angry outbursts. You cannot and should not continue to endure this. With a happy marriage, you won't have so much of a "Time to do something for ME!" feeling, because everything you and your husband do will make you both happy! Yes, I teared up when I read this... As I often feel that I am "bowing and scraping". My life is an open book, all passwords are common knowledge... Yet he has done things that have made ME feel I secure and when I brought them up, he gets defensive about it. Do I think he is having an affair...? No. BUT he isn't taking care of my ENs either. I have a RIGHT to question him if his behavior hurts me. I do NOT deserve the defensive reactions I get... Okay, first off, stop bowing and scraping, all right? Did you read the links I have posted to you?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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So the tatoo would MEAN something. My sis and bro have theirs already... Maybe you can use the design to express yourself in another way. You could take the design to a college art student and commission him to put it on canvas (some of the art the kids at our local college create is stunning!)Or you could have the design put on a pattern and cross-stitched. Either project could be framed and displayed in your home. Make three of them so each sibling has one. This could be a way of expressing yourself while still respecting your husband's wish that you not get a tattoo. (Of course, you would want to POJA this with him - it's his house, too )
Last edited by maritalbliss; 08/12/12 07:20 AM.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Or you could have a piece of jewlery made, of the symbol, and then you could wear it.
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Or t-shirts/sweatshirts for the three of you. Heck, make it four - your husband is part of your family.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Wowww,, A canvas, jewelry, T-shirt? Those are some GREAT ideas!
Dday- Feb 1998 Recovered!!
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Note cards...screenprint the design on canvas totes...your screensaver...those decorative cotton throw blankets...mouse pad...water bottles...okay, the mind boggles with ideas so I'll quit there Mrs WLD, you and your sibs could make this your family crest. This needn't be relegated to a spot on your ankle that your husband wouldn't be happy about anyway.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Oh, I know! I know! :::waving hand wildly::: Go to one of those wine-making stores where you make and bottle your own wine. You can make your own label, as well. You and your husband could meet with your sibs to make a batch of your own flavor of wine, bottle it and label it with your 'family crest'. Give them to your wine-drinking friends as gifts. NOW I'm done. Seriously
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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LOL, wow, what a start to my morning... LOL.. *grabs coffee and chugs* OK all, NO tattoo until/unless H agrees through POJA. THAT point is clear, I get it, point closed... I am starting a new thread... follow if you dare... LOL..... (yes, I will refer back to this one and read the links that have been recommended... :D)
Weez Oh, so you dug way, way, deep down in your heart and found the love still there!?! Our 7 year old upon hearing that we weren't getting a divorce
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Mrs WLD,
If you enjoy talking about your past with this counsellor and you think that endlessly spending money on an unresolvable issue is how you want to do things (assuming its POJAd) then that's your call.
But if you want your H to focus on the PRESENT, faithful you and not the PAST WW...
You can see how an action-based plan, based in the present would help, right?
If you want your H to TALK about not being angry..and how the past caused his anger...
Go with the talk/past plan
But if you want him to STOP...and if you are to STOP your IB
It has to be DONE with actions. Today. In the present.
That's the MB Plan.
(And I thought she was highly disrespectful to say 'what's the worst he can do'. That's what a school bully says about a smaller kid. Its a typical MC move to pick on the quieter spouse)
Last edited by indiegirl; 08/12/12 05:20 PM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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