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I have very recently stopped talking about the A. For a long time it was details, gory sexual details I wanted to know. But in the last few months it has been, as in your BH's case, the do you still think about (OW1 or OW2), do you think of this as a good experience, etc. I asked the same questions over and over and H always answered them, always the same. It wasn't so much that I didn't know what the answer was, for me I think it was a reassurance of some sort. Reassurance that it was ME he wanted to be with.

Try to look past the anger, hostility, etc. and see that what your BH is really looking for is soothing, if that is the right word. He is coming from a place of intense pain, regardless of how it is coming out. Do whatever is in your power to help him heal from that pain.

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Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE
Originally Posted By: TheRoad

I don't think there is any addiction treatment program that wants the addict to recall the good feelings their drug of choice gave them, in this case the OM.


If I was an alcoholic I think my husband would task me to drink one drink a week to prove that I had my addiction under control.


Don't go there, WAW...that is a DJ.


FWW

"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
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WAW,
I hope you can endure a thread-jack:

I have very recently stopped talking about the A. - unwritten
hurray UW, I was at one time very sure you would never reach that point. Good on you, Ma'am!

<End of TJ>

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Now in my case I did not have to worry about triggering in terms of H wanting to go back to an AP, considering it was a decade old A. Is that something that happens with you? Do you still struggle with the addiction piece?

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Originally Posted By: pokerface
Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE
My BS is constantly asking me to go back and remember how good I felt at this point or that point in the affair. I do not see the value in that for him or for me.



Speaking for myself, I was haunted by the possibility that my WH might be holding on to happy memories of the affair and OW.


HAUNTED.


You are right that there is no value to discuss your feelings during the affair because it was a fantasy. A cruel and hurtful fantasy.


It is, however, valuable for him to see and "believe" that you no longer hold on to any fond memories of OM and the time you stole from BH to be with OM.


BS definitely accuses me of holding on to fond memories. Perhaps that is why I make sure to not have any memories. Now I see the ridiculousness of him then asking me to remember them.


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Start T/J

Thank you NG. Really, the problem with my thread is I only pound out thoughts on it when I am not getting my UA time, EN's met, am frustrated by some lack of progress on H's part, in a bad mood, ready to throw in the towel, and sound like I have made little to no progress. The reality for most days is quite different. I just never seem to want to write the good stuff.

My attitude, on MOST days, has made a 180 since my first post. My effort level, on MOST days, has come along with it. But, I still have my days...

Work in progress.

End T/J

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Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl
Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE
Originally Posted By: TheRoad

I don't think there is any addiction treatment program that wants the addict to recall the good feelings their drug of choice gave them, in this case the OM.


If I was an alcoholic I think my husband would task me to drink one drink a week to prove that I had my addiction under control.


Don't go there, WAW...that is a DJ.


I was not saying it to be mean. I think that it is important to him that when an addiction is overcome that you have control over it rather than avoid it. He has been able to do that and expects the same of me. Part of what scares him is that he thinks there is a part of me that I cannot control.


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unwritten,

Any time you want to say something positive about your marriage you are welcome to post on my thread.


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Originally Posted By: unwritten
Now in my case I did not have to worry about triggering in terms of H wanting to go back to an AP, considering it was a decade old A. Is that something that happens with you? Do you still struggle with the addiction piece?


I am not struggling with the addiction. I am not pining for the POSOM. He is not a part of my life (except as needed by my BS).

My AP is a POS. I cannot check to see what level my Love Bank for POSOM is at. Has my intellectual knowledge that no friend of mine would participate with me in the destruction of my family emptied it? I hope so. If I ever ran into him again, I hope to feel nothing but the disgust I feel about the A.

Do I still longing for someone who admires me and will have a conversation without DJ, AO, or SD. Heck yea! But I got all the time in the world for wait for him to believe that I am here for him.


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Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE


BS definitely accuses me of holding on to fond memories. Perhaps that is why I make sure to not have any memories. Now I see the ridiculousness of him then asking me to remember them.


I did not mean to imply that your BH is being ridiculous. His insecurity is completely normal and to be expected.

I was just trying to help you understand his internal conflict.

I don't understand how you can "make sure not to have any memories." That is not believable. What your BH needs is for you to understand and "get" that there is nothing warm, fuzzy, or special about OM and your escapades together. It was cruel and selfish.

It bothers me that you are using the word ridiculous here.


ME: BW
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DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008

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Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE
Originally Posted By: pokerface
Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE
My BS is constantly asking me to go back and remember how good I felt at this point or that point in the affair. I do not see the value in that for him or for me.



Speaking for myself, I was haunted by the possibility that my WH might be holding on to happy memories of the affair and OW.


HAUNTED.


You are right that there is no value to discuss your feelings during the affair because it was a fantasy. A cruel and hurtful fantasy.


It is, however, valuable for him to see and "believe" that you no longer hold on to any fond memories of OM and the time you stole from BH to be with OM.


BS definitely accuses me of holding on to fond memories. Perhaps that is why I make sure to not have any memories. Now I see the ridiculousness of him then asking me to remember them.


Then try a respectful request to tweak focus from the past into the present day.

"How would you feel.. If instead I talked about how I feel about YOU /how I feel about POSOM TODAY."

But if he wants to go over your 'evidence' again, that is not ridiculous it is a man who is in a desperate search for identifiable truth.

The evidence is all gone due to work emails, so all you have to offer him is patient explanation and whatever else, like a poly, you can creatively come up with to offer him.

Its hard, but its JC to give him what he needs.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE

If I was an alcoholic I think my husband would task me to drink one drink a week to prove that I had my addiction under control..


Has he ever said that this would be his approach to alcoholism?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: pokerface
Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE


BS definitely accuses me of holding on to fond memories. Perhaps that is why I make sure to not have any memories. Now I see the ridiculousness of him then asking me to remember them.


I did not mean to imply that your BH is being ridiculous. His insecurity is completely normal and to be expected.

I was just trying to help you understand his internal conflict.

I don't understand how you can "make sure not to have any memories." That is not believable. What your BH needs is for you to understand and "get" that there is nothing warm, fuzzy, or special about OM and your escapades together. It was cruel and selfish.

It bothers me that you are using the word ridiculous here.


I did not think you thought my BS was ridiculous. I was just expressing my own frustration with the external conflict caused by his internal conflict.

How did I "erase" my memory? The year after DDay was very abusive. My BS verbally abused me for hours every day and night for months. I coped by burying the cause of the abuse. The full out assault has ended but I do not feel the A is a safe topic.

This forum seems to view that BS have a right to abuse their FWS for life (if the BS chooses). As long as no physical abuse occurs it is part of just compensation. If the FWS cannot handle the consequences of her A then leave. Everyone has a right to an opinion and mine is that the line for where abuse is no longer acceptable is before physical abuse. It took a lot of abuse before I accepted that. You really have to suffer abuse before you know what it is like and how you will respond to it.

Maybe this is the topic I need to take to the radio show. I just can't seem to encapsulate it well. Describe the abuse. Describe the time since the abuse. Then ask whether I should discuss the details of the A again to test whether my BS might become a crazy man again?


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Originally Posted By: indiegirl
Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE

If I was an alcoholic I think my husband would task me to drink one drink a week to prove that I had my addiction under control..


Has he ever said that this would be his approach to alcoholism?


For himself, yes because he has been accused of being an alcoholic before.


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Originally Posted By: indiegirl

Then try a respectful request to tweak focus from the past into the present day.

"How would you feel.. If instead I talked about how I feel about YOU /how I feel about POSOM TODAY."


I am trying to implement ideas like yours from Love Busters.

Originally Posted By: indiegirl

But if he wants to go over your 'evidence' again, that is not ridiculous it is a man who is in a desperate search for identifiable truth.

The evidence is all gone due to work emails, so all you have to offer him is patient explanation and whatever else, like a poly, you can creatively come up with to offer him.

Its hard, but its JC to give him what he needs.



I have all my work e-mails. They just aren't the type of message you asked about, ones that would show feelings. They would show frequency of communication. I would essentially send messages about nothing important just to send a message. There was a lot more one-on-one message traffic that had incidental "how is your day going" stuff.

I used the e-mail a long time ago to reconstruct the timeline. Not that there was much content but the context triggered memories.

It is an option. I guess BS and I need to brainstorm a plan and figure out an option that we are both enthusiastic about (or at least that won't give me chest pains).


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Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE


This forum seems to view that BS have a right to abuse their FWS for life (if the BS chooses). As long as no physical abuse occurs it is part of just compensation. If the FWS cannot handle the consequences of her A then leave.


I'm pretty sure no one said this.

People were discussing offering honesty freely, not taking abuse.

What abuse are you talking about?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE
Originally Posted By: indiegirl

Then try a respectful request to tweak focus from the past into the present day.

"How would you feel.. If instead I talked about how I feel about YOU /how I feel about POSOM TODAY."


I am trying to implement ideas like yours from Love Busters.

Originally Posted By: indiegirl

But if he wants to go over your 'evidence' again, that is not ridiculous it is a man who is in a desperate search for identifiable truth.

The evidence is all gone due to work emails, so all you have to offer him is patient explanation and whatever else, like a poly, you can creatively come up with to offer him.

Its hard, but its JC to give him what he needs.



I have all my work e-mails. They just aren't the type of message you asked about, ones that would show feelings. They would show frequency of communication. I would essentially send messages about nothing important just to send a message. There was a lot more one-on-one message traffic that had incidental "how is your day going" stuff.

I used the e-mail a long time ago to reconstruct the timeline. Not that there was much content but the context triggered memories.

It is an option. I guess BS and I need to brainstorm a plan and figure out an option that we are both enthusiastic about (or at least that won't give me chest pains).


If the emails typify the things you talked about, show it to yoour BH.

He probably has a very different idea and he needs accurate information like this.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE
Originally Posted By: indiegirl
Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE

If I was an alcoholic I think my husband would task me to drink one drink a week to prove that I had my addiction under control..


Has he ever said that this would be his approach to alcoholism?


For himself, yes because he has been accused of being an alcoholic before.


Do you have concerns that he is?

Who else does?

Does he agree?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: NeverGuessed
WAW, there's some other things that would bear repeating here.

The BS drives the recovery bus; the FWS provides the power. That's shorthand for what your BS says he needs, he needs. You have no say in whether it's unreasonable, or if your feel you cannot bring yourself to give it (again). If he were here, we could work with him as we have with other BSs in the past, counselling him that eventually the BS will have to admit that any details still missing are not material to the question at hand. We would explain; we would advise; we would counsel; we would console. What we would NOT do is DECIDE - for him - that he has all that he needs. If WE as uninvolved parties would not do that, my friend, you certainly have no standing to do so.

You, however, ARE here, so we can explain, advise, counsel, and console you that all of this pain-flushing discussion is NOTHING more than that portion of JC that you must provide. Any negotiation on that serves only to raise FBH's defensive barriers that it is very much to your benefit to tear down.


The only thing I have to fear is fear itself. And it is eating me alive. I have to get past my fear of talking to him. I have my own defensive barrier that I am afraid to take down.

I am just not sure that the affair is the best place to start. But if I get past that one then I shouldn't ever be afraid again.


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Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE
As long as no physical abuse occurs it is part of just compensation.



This is quite a DJ to posters. I cannot think of one poster who would say that.

AOs for example are considered a complete no-no in MB.


Originally Posted By: WhoAreWE

Everyone has a right to an opinion and mine is that the line for where abuse is no longer acceptable is before physical abuse. It took a lot of abuse before I accepted that. You really have to suffer abuse before you know what it is like and how you will respond to it.



But what is this abuse you are talking about it and HOW are you responding to it?

We can't guess.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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