How dare you expect romance and sole, undivided attention from your husband! Don't you know you're just an old slipper!

This man has previous form as a liar and you bought this piece of BS?

No I do not have snooping tools installed but I know my way around computers more than he does, so I have ways of finding out what he doesn't want me to know if that was the case. We have already taken measures against those things. I have access to all of his accounts, he only uses the computer when I am in the room, he got rid of facebook about 4 years ago when I found out about the exGF contacting him, he has no access to a computer at work, I have full access to phone records, etc.

Yes he is capable of change. He's changed in many ways over the last 4 years. He has even toned down the glances at other women, but as I said it hasn't completely stopped. Now it's usually an instance instead of being every attractive woman he comes across to someone who is extremely attractive to him. The ones he can't help but notice. That's why it's so much more hurtful and makes my insecurities skyrocket. Not making excuses, just trying to give a clearer picture.

The conversation about the slipper reference: This was not actually a part of the conversation about the woman he looked at until I brought it in as an example. We had that conversation as sort of "How would you describe our relationship". He said comfortable...I told him what comfortable meant to me (that I seen it as a negative, I didn't like the fact that I'm viewed as comfortable) and his explanation of what he meant was the broke in slipper analogy, but reinforced it as a positive for him. I still don't like it even if he sees it as positive and I'm getting the impression that many of you would see that in the same way that I take it, instead of how he meant it.

Sometimes, when I confront him on issues like this, I get the feeling that he is more angry with himself for being a jerk than he is with me for not being more understanding, although he would like me to be able to understand where he's coming from. I do understand though...men are visual, they aren't going to be able to not NOTICE a pretty woman in their presence, heck I said I know when its going to happen before it happens. If I notice a pretty woman that I know he will notice, how can he not?! It's what he does with it. Many times he will look away, divert his attention, or heck he may just be glancing out of the side of his eyes. This was one of those times that even I couldn't divert his attention because he was so drawn to her looks. The fact that it bothers me is not enough apparently.

I used to not be like this...the flirting, glancing, etc. bothered me but it's gotten more extreme since I found out that he took it one step further with the girl he kissed. There was no indication of that one coming at all. I'm more open with him now about how these things make me feel than I was in our earlier years. He can't handle that, I don't think. He is an avoider of conflict, his idea of working things out is to focus on the good parts and the bad parts will just eventually fade or become better. He's just as much tired of this vicious circle as I am at this point. He's tired of me not trusting him even after 4 years. What he doesn't seem to get is the power to change all of this lies withing his hands...not mine. I didn't create this insecurity within me, he did.

You're making lots of excuses for him.

If you say he 'can't help himself' or say he 'just doesn't get it' you treat him like a slow child.

Those are DJs.

Worse, you lie to yourself about his abilities because you want to avoid standing up for a true marriage. Because that would be hard.

Rather than pigeon-holing him as clueless and uncontrolled its MORE respectful to say: 'Honey I know you are in full control of your actions and I fully expect you to be. I also expect you to accept the consequences of poor behaviour like a grown up. I know you realise there's no telling where you will end up living unless you can stop your poor behaviour. I hope we can solve this together'

If he chooses not to, its not because he's not capable or slow witted, but because he chooses not to.


When he says 'that's just how I'm wired' it is with the hope you will opt to just put up with the misery. He hopes to convince you he's too stupid to change a simple thoughtless habit.

Which is actually pretty manipulative and clever.

Now you know better. Now you know it is very dangerous for a married man to be so thoughtless and vain.

Let me ask this...what if the type of time spent is one of the main EN for me. What I mean is, it's not just that we spend UA together, but how we spend it together. He likes to be "doing" something (many times that something seems to be a distraction.) and I like to just spend one on one, quiet, really close time together. That is something major for me. I am happy doing things with him like he likes to do, but it doesn't make the connection for me, yet he is bored with something like just spending the afternoon or even for 3-4 hours shut away from the world with just the two of us. How can you POJA enthusiastically when this type of connection is a very strong EN?

Yes, you are right, I've been knowing this.

PN, the truth is that he has only got better at his gawking around you. It is clear he has not broken this habit at all. He just hides it a little better when you are around.


Not nearly as tired as you are of not being able to trust him. He is untrustworthy and it is horrible to live with a man who can't be trusted. Trust is not an entitlment program for wayward husbands, it must be earned. And he is doing nothing to earn it.

here

At what point would you start again if you were in my position? Melody is right, I haven't recovered, but to start from the beginning would mean to bring up the past. Bringing up the past means opening a can of worms up completely. There has been some healing, but not enough. Anytime I bring something to his attention that bothers me, it always leads to the past and reopens those wounds. Sometimes it is him, throwing it in my face that I should be passed this by now, sometimes it is me using examples of how the past relates to what I'm dealing with in the present. I'm sorry but I'm confused as to where to start since this has been a longterm issue.

I did tell him about this site last night and asked him to read everything here and then talk to me as he goes through each topic. Whether he does that or not remains to be seen.

I give up.
Good luck and God Bless.

The reason the past keeps coming up is because his CURRENT BEHAVIOR keeps you triggered. HE IS CAUSING THIS. His behavior makes it impossible for you to recover. He keeps ripping the scab off and then screaming at you for bleeding!

I would refer you to 2 articles, Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?

and this:

When to Call It Quits - Part 1

In your situation, I would formulate a plan of recovery, present it to your husband and give him a couple of weeks to really get on board. If he doesn't, I would suggest you separate because staying with someone who continues to behave like this will tear you down emotionally and physically. Your resentment will grow and grow. The fact that he still gawks at women and does nothing to give you just compensation makes it impossible for you to ever recover.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Why would you bring up the past?

What are you doing???!!!

Your husband can be neither trusted nor educated and you have been told this by the best of the best.

I would HATE to lose Pep's advice by being so cavalier with it. She is an astounding advisor with years of experience offered to you for FREE.



Nope sorry there hasn't. A 'kind of' recovery is just as much use as 'kind of' faithful.


This is called gaslighting and manipulation. Whenever you have a PRESENT complaint he gleefully casts you in the role of pathetic and jealous by bringing up the past. Gleefully.

He is ogling women TODAY

He is not safe TODAY

He still has hidden As that he continues to lie about TODAY.

So you must insist on a 180 change in attitude TODAY.

And your snooping isn't good enough because I guarantee you he is actively cruising for needs elsewhere SOMEWHERE.

Because the things like gawking trigger the past for me as well as the hurt it causes at the present time.

It would be like saying to DH, "ok here is something that may help us to overcome our problems". I'm telling you that he will take it as I can't let go of what he did to me in the past. He wants me to forget that there ever was a past history. I can't completely, and when I do get to that point that it is almost an afterthought then he does something stupid to trigger it and then wonders why I can't let it go. But he takes offense that I associate the stupid things he does in the present with what happened in the past.

Yes that would make it very hard for you to require faithful behaviour and it would make it easier for him to be unfaithful.

If you went back to being clueless about being cheating he could go back to cheating!

Why doesn't he suggest you stab yourself in both eyes so you can't see his gawking?

It would hurt less and is more technically achievable than wiping the memories.

He doesn't take offense. He chooses to go on the offensive.

Luckily Pep gave you a great plan before throwing up her hands in despair. She might even come back if you follow it.

Deliver this ultimatum in a bright confident voice with an untroubled tone. Your face serene. If you are not a great actress, learn how fast.

If he talks about the past say 'I wish to hear about your FUTURE behaviour'

When he rants about your jealousy....

Look at your watch as though you really must be somewhere and say

"Yes, I'd rather you stopped making me jealous if you don't mind. Up to you my sweet"

Then go see a lawyer. We can't force people to behave. We can only ask and mean business when we do.

"And your snooping isn't good enough because I guarantee you he is actively cruising for needs elsewhere SOMEWHERE."

Yes it's called TV, video games, and reading. I am quite open to the fact that he could be fulfilling his needs with women, but it would be mental, not physical. I can account for his whereabouts for every moment of the day except for at work and if he's getting his needs met physically there then I have more to worry about than just women as his job only has men in his dept. at this time. I can't however account for every thought he has throughout the day.

Ok this is what I'm trying to ask...is the starting point with delivering an ultimatum like this now or the next time that I catch him gawking? I've already confronted him about the issue of his gawking this last time. If I bring up an ultimatum, it will seem as though I'm trying to throw everything that this has created up til today in his face...as in I can't let it go. And that will serve nothing than to prove that he is right. Or at least that's how I would think it would be handled.

But you two aren't in love because of this problem where he mentally compares you with other women. And if he falls in love with another woman, what's to stop him making it physical? Not you. He even admits he isn't in love with you.

Is your bar so low that you'll stand by while he windowshops for women?

Who will it seem like that to?

It doesn't seem that way to me.

You surely aren't talking about taking his manipulation techniques seriously are you?

If he says 'you're throwing the past in my face'

You cooly dodge that DELIBERATE and MANIPULATIVE lie.

"Sorry you feel that way. I had hoped to avoid having to leave you. Oh well, gotta go see a lawyer about my rights"