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coastguard, Biggest line of BS I've ever heard (says the IT guy). Tell you what. I will try to find an IT or HR person to ask. However, both of these functions are either outsourced to some company in India or been replaced by a server in China. But I will search for a human to ask the question. Footnote: Keep in mind that I have NOT been looking at porn or inappropriate websites at work. I'll bet that that crap is either blocked or I'd get fired if I looked at it. So while I have been thoughtless and used poor judgement, I haven't been so stupid as to jeopardize my job. I don't doubt that if I had kept going down the same path of addictive/destructive rationalizing, I probably would've screwed up eventually. But lucky for me, I didn't let it get that bad. I've "just" been looking at women - clothed.
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[
I am stopping. I'd like to say I'll never do it again. Unlike drinking or smoking, my addiction happens to be everywhere - church, store, work, EVERYWHERE. When I see something that catches my attention (pretty lady), I have to (1) look away QUICKLY and (2) not look again. I AM doing this. I pray for strength every day to KEEP doing this.
. Yes, and there is alcohol and cigarettes everywhere too. I don't know if you have been out lately, but I can get booze and cigarettes on about every corner in America. There are billboards everywhere. Every building I walk into smells like cigarettes around the door. Or here's another example: Do you eat 100% healthy foods every day in the right quantity? Do you ever "slip up" and eat a little more than you should? Do you ever "indulge" only to curse yourself the next day? And this is why I don't think you are serious. You spend alot of time concocting elaborate excuses for "relapse" and "slip ups." This is not what one does when one is serious about quitting. When someone is serious about quitting they don't spend their time making up excuses to "slip" and "relapse;" they spend their time finding ways to stay straight. I think it is important that your wife understand that you are not taking this seriously. I know what it looks like when one is just going through the motions to get his spouse off his back. Is your wife a poster on this board?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Footnote: Keep in mind that I have NOT been looking at porn or inappropriate websites at work. I'll bet that that crap is either blocked or I'd get fired if I looked at it. So while I have been thoughtless and used poor judgement, I haven't been so stupid as to jeopardize my job. You must have amazing self control then at work. How can that be since you apparently have *ZERO* self control outside of work and are at the mercy of "relapses" and "slips...?"
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Excuse #1: I am in the program and my understanding is completely different from yours. To me, steps 1-11 are to help the addict retrain the brain and rely on God for help. Step 12 is to help others.
Excuse #2: ...I need divine intervention. The program is teaching me how to obtain that divine intervention.
Excuse #3: Unlike drinking or smoking, my addiction happens to be everywhere - church, store, work, EVERYWHERE.
1Hopefulguy must live on a secluded island somewhere - he certainly doesn't live in America!
Excuse #4: Can I be perfect at doing this for the rest of my life? I hope so, but I don't claim to be perfect.
Excuse #5: Is being imperfect "tapering?" I don't believe so, I believe it's the human condition. We all sin (Romans 3:23). And that�s why there�s a Savior � because we need saving. I'd like to say that I'll never sin again - but I'm not that naive.
Oh no, since he can never be perfect he can never stop gawking at women!
Excuse #6: Am I giving myself an out or an excuse? No - I'm just admitting that I am a man - I have a natural attraction to women.
Excuse #7: Or here's another example: Do you eat 100% healthy foods every day in the right quantity? Do you ever "slip up" and eat a little more than you should? Do you ever "indulge" only to curse yourself the next day?
Excuse #8: Unlike alcohol or cigarettes (un-natural, human concocted) food and sex are necessary and healthy. So I feel like you telling me "just stop" is like me telling a recovering food addict to eat perfectly every day for the rest of their life. Sure it's the right thing to do, and they need to do it. But will that food-addict be perfect every day?
Do you have 8 REASONS why you can STOP IT? Could you put this much effort into finding reasons to STOP as you did in finding excuses why you can't?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Do you have 8 REASONS why you can STOP IT? Could you put this much effort into finding reasons to STOP as you did in finding excuses why you can't? Yes� Reason #1: I�ll lose my wife and therefore my family. Reason #2: I�ll lose the respect of my children. Reason #3: It�s a sin (Matt 5:28) Reason #4: Contrast effect: always comparing people to my W. Reason #5: Violates POJA. Reason #6: It�s a love-buster: Independent behavior. Reason #7: Playing with fire will get me burnt (feeding the �small� sin of looking at other women will only make me want to go to the �bigger sin� of porn). Reason #8: I�m stirring with the �love chemicals� (serotonin, dopamine, etc.) with something other than my wife. See � I have many reasons to stop. And plenty of incentive. I�d like you to please respond to my comment (or my "excuse"): Or here's another example: Do you eat 100% healthy foods every day in the right quantity? Do you ever "slip up" and eat a little more than you should? Do you ever "indulge" only to curse yourself the next day?
Unlike alcohol or cigarettes (un-natural, human concocted) food and sex are necessary and healthy. So I feel like you telling me "just stop" is like me telling a recovering food addict to eat perfectly every day for the rest of their life. Sure it's the right thing to do, and they need to do it. But will that food-addict be perfect every day?
Hopefully.
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ML, Can you also explain what you meant by: 1Hopefulguy must live on a secluded island somewhere - he certainly doesn't live in America! What's your point?
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You must have amazing self control then at work. How can that be since you apparently have *ZERO* self control outside of work and are at the mercy of "relapses" and "slips...?" Yes. I have used amazing self-control at work. I have also overcome porn and mastrubation. I have now read 3 of Dr. H's books. I have learned to stop disrespectfully judging my wife. I've learned to meet my W's need for SF by (1) learning to control my anxiety and not push her away and by taking (2) testosterone and (3) ED meds. I've learned be open and honest about my bad behavior. I've learned to express my emotional needs. I feel like I'm doing my best. And I've been pretty darn good about not looking at other women. But it seems like because I still am struggling, you say I am just "going through the motions." YES I AM going through the motions! I'm doing the work! I'm changing my behavior one day at a time. What do you want me to do different than what I am doing?
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ML, Can you also explain what you meant by: 1Hopefulguy must live on a secluded island somewhere - he certainly doesn't live in America! What's your point? Go read my post again. I was responding to your comment.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[
Unlike alcohol or cigarettes (un-natural, human concocted) food and sex are necessary and healthy. So I feel like you telling me "just stop" is like me telling a recovering food addict to eat perfectly every day for the rest of their life. Sure it's the right thing to do, and they need to do it. But will that food-addict be perfect every day? Your analogy doesn't work because gawking at women is NOT necessary or healthy. Just as alcohol and cigarettes are not necessary, neither is porn or gawking at women. And yes, it was an "excuse." Another reason why you can't just STOP IT. If you are so interested in stopping then why go to this extreme of manufacturing elaborate, but unworkable, analogies? I don't see people who are sincere about recovery do that.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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What do you want me to do different than what I am doing? You can STOP IT as I suggested earlier. People who are committed to stopping don't use weasel words like "making progress" and "trying;" they STOP IT. That is the FIRST STEP in the 12 Steps. One has to FIRST stop the addiction - SURRENDER - and then they can be in a sober frame of mind to implement the other steps. You seem to have this completely backwards. You must first STOP the gawking and then your feelings will follow. I get the impression from reading your posts that you imagine some magic cute feeling is going to attack you against your will forcing you to stop being interested in oogling women. That is not how it works. Feelings FOLLOW ACTIONS. So you have to first STOP the action and then your feelings will come. Train yourself to keep all your focus on your wife. Focus on meeting the top 2 intimate emotional needs of affection and conversation. Look at her face often and speak to her and touch her. I feel like I'm doing my best. And I've been pretty darn good about not looking at other women. But it seems like because I still am struggling, you say I am just "going through the motions." Your "best" will be to STOP IT. Something which you have fiercely resisted on this thread. Being "darn good" is not the goal, STOPPING is the goal. And you are not doing your best when you continue to gawk at women on your computer at work.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Getting over looking at other women for me is like alcoholism or giving up smoking. Y�all are right. I should stop it right now. Just like an alcoholic or smoker who is getting dry. The alcoholic occasionally relapses and they have to re-commit. That�s why I�m going to a 12-step program. For me--because there are women everywhere--it makes it REALLY hard to not see something that �catches my eye.� But I am getting better at stopping the looking and �drinking.� "Getting better," "occasional relapses," "trying," "making progress" Weasel words of a man who is not serious. How long do you imagine your wife will put up with this? What is she supposed to do while you play games?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Then what is there to argue ABOUT?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Then what is there to argue ABOUT? Nothing.
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Then what is there to argue ABOUT? Nothing. I agree.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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If you are done with the defensiveness do you want to get to work?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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1HopefulGuy, I think you will be amazed at the results from following MLs no nonsense advice. I am very glad to see you taking her 2x4s seriously. She's been there, done that.
When we are very bonded to a person, behaviour or habit it feels IMPOSSIBLE to break away.
ML cautioned you that no 'magic cute feeling' was going to descend and let you off the hook from the hard work required. I think you referred to it as 'divine intervention' but usually DI takes the form of a kick in the pants that makes us roll up our sleeves. Not a magic change of heart.
The BRILLIANT thing is when you 'stop' - hard as it is - you break that bond and addiction. THEN the magic feeling of freedom arrives. After, not before.
You are capable of some good changes which you have already made. And you are right that glancing at women gives you a chemical high. That it why it is imperative to stop. Each glance returns your withdrawal clock to day one. You will never get clear of the addiction like that.
Good luck.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Indie, ML, I'm not expecting a "magic cute feeling." But God is helping me as I "turn [my] will and [my] life over to the care of God."  Thank you all for your help. My wife appreciates it as well (she ran out of 2x4's  ). Yes ML, I am ready to get to work. I heard this song and it made me think of your advice... Don't Tell Me
by: Hoobastank
Don�t tell me that you are ready to change
Don�t tell me from now it won�t be the same
It doesn�t matter cause at the end of the day
It isn�t what you say, it�s what you do
What you say will be forgotten some day (what you do will be remembered)
Empty promises always fade away (the ones you keep will last forever)
Don�t tell me you'll make things better for us
Don�t tell me that your someone I can trust
It doesn�t mean a thing to me just because
It isn�t what you say, it�s what you do
Your actions will speak louder than you
What you say will be forgotten some day (what you do will be remembered)
Empty promises always fade away (the ones you keep will last forever)
The ones you keep will last forever
So show me that you really figured it out
Show me everything that you are about
But if you can�t then you should just shut your mouth
Cause I don�t care what you say or what you do
You can�t take back what you put me through
Your actions will speak louder than you
What you say will be forgotten some day (what you do will be remembered)
Empty promises always fade away (the ones you keep will last forever)
What you say will be forgotten some day (what you do will be remembered)
Empty promises always fade away (the ones you keep will last forever)
The ones you keep will last forever
The ones you keep will last forever
Forever
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Love the song! And I am glad you came back.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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How is it going? Update, please!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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