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Originally Posted by Betty
Thank you Gamma...I appreciate your posts very much...

I was beginning to feel somewhat discouraged of this site. But I will continue to read the other forums that you suggest. Had it not been for posting here and your posts, I don't think I would have done the right thing, I probably would still be living a lie.

I think we (myself & BH) will get through this and I am willing to do whatever I need to, in order to gain my BH's trust. I know it's not going to happen overnight, and it will take some time.

Thank you again very much!

What is happening with your BH?

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BH is very hurt, angry, dissapointed and is going thru a series of emotions...whenever, thoughts come to his mind he will question me and of course I have to provide those answers as hurtful as they may be to him.

We will be attending counseling thru our church group at his request and make every attemp to go forward. He's been merciful with me and I know I don't deserve his generosity, but are thankful to him. I really don't know how he can keep himself together, because I can't, I fall apart. He stated he wants no skeletons in the closet, he wants to work things out for the sake of our marriage and family, but definitely wants me to have NC with OM and he wants NC between OC and OM for the sake and well being of OC and older brothers.

OM never left me alone despite his wife and son knowing and BH is aware of it, but in this ocasion, OM might have back off, because he was let go as a personal favor to me from his job. Being terminated for OM was far more humiliating than this situation, I hurt his ego I'm not sure, it was always about him, when they searched his laptop, they found all the emails where I polished and forward presentations he used for work and also emails where he threatned me he would commit suicide because I was being selfish and trying to leave him and not allow him to see or get close to OC...there was a lot of things...one of the business partners for the company he was working for was a very close friend of me and BH. Since I did not answer his calls and changed my number, he emailed me trying to manipulate the situation, I didn't bother to reply, I changed my email...I made my BH aware of everything, and OM is aware also, so I really hope he doesn't try to establish communication with me at all going forward and using OC as a excuse or suicide threats no longer work.

I have learned from my BH is not worth to hate, because even hating a person is making the person feel important sometimes especially people like OM, if I hate OM the only person being hurt will be me, because even negative feelings will not allow me to go forward in our lives. I am actually learning a lot from BH from this situation and I admire his strength.

He mentioned in the last few years he felt we were like two strangers living at home and although he was suspicious he did not wanted to dig because he was afraid of confirming his thoughts. He suffered a lot during this time, and actually started going to Sunday mass and reading the bible and going to bible studies, he grew spiritually while I drowned myself in my own sin. He did not want to lose his family, as he grew up without a father and had a very sad childhood he did not want our sons growing up in a broken home, so he decided to suffer in silence and prayed during this entire time for me and our family...it was the most painful conversation we both had, having to hear what I put BH thru...I honestly do not deserve his mercy or love.

I hope we will move forward and OM never intrudes again in our lives. My BH asked that no more secrets are kept, any attempt of OM now or later in life I would inform him, I agreed to all hims terms and conditions. I will do whatever he needs me to do to move forward in our marriage and with our family.


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Gamma, thank you so much for directing me to read those other threads!!!

I have been reading other forums on the different aspects of infidelity and although reading the raw truth is hurtful, it's been helpful on every level and aspect of my personal situation.

I cannot change my past, but I can start on making better decisions going forward and setting the boundaries that I did not have in place prior and so much more.

Thank you so much!!!

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Originally Posted by Betty
Thank you and I will keep in mind you thoughts, words and by all means feel free to judge all you want and feel the need to.

Thank you. Hopefully, you gain the necessary skills to judge right from wrong as we are commanded by the Bible. The ability to judge right from wrong is what keeps us out of trouble, after all. Take care..


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thank you MelodyLane.

Gob bless you all and will keep reading, this has been very helpful to me and my BH is going forward. I strongly believe I have learned from my mistakes and doing the right thing was the best decision and I'm thankful to you all. I know what I'm going thru will pass, because I was given another opportunity to make things right, and I will, never again will I jeopordize my family's well being.

Thank you again and God bless you all.

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I don't know why I'm bothering, since you never respond to any of my questions or posts, but what have you done to insure that OM will not further intrude in your lives?

Did you send an official NC letter?

When was the last time OM tried to contact you?

How close does OM live to you?

Has the affair been properly exposed to everyone?

Have you ordered "Surviving an Affair?"



Me: BS/FWW: 48
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DS: 30, 27, 25
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OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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I'm sorry writer1, I thought I had asnwered your questions...

On my part I told my husband the truth...I changed my personal email, I was also able to change it at work and my cell phone and work direct line. Me and OM do not work in the same company.

I emailed OM an official NC letter, and that didn't matter to him, he would continue to bother me. His ex-sister in law approached me in town, I'm assuming she must have recognized OC because he looks very much like his bio dad and is very different from his two older brothers, I had never met her or known her and she warned me to get away from OM, that he was a bad person and stuff like that, I'm thinking she might have thought I had a relationship with him, I really don't know why she did that...but she also brought to my attention that OM was bothering her sister, basically everything he used to manipulate our situation he was using to manipulate the situation with his BW and to get back with her while he was doing the same with me. Right after I had that conversation with his ex-sister in law, I wrote my NC letter to him, he was fired and he tried to contact me via email and phone, I did not reply to his email nor returned his call and went ahead and changed my contact information...this happened about a month ago, and just this past Sunday I confessed the whole truth to my BH...before my email was changed at work OM emailed me very upset because he was fired and assumed I approached his ex-sister in law, he wanted to talk despite everything because he wanted to be a part of OC's life, so I did not reply, I had my work email changed and in this occassion after I confessed the whole truth to my BH, BH wrote the NC letter to OM, he made it clear that OC was not a topic of discussion in any way he had a father and if he made any attempt to establish communication with OC he would seek a RO against him, therefore he had nothing to discuss with me, in OC's best interest he needed to stay away and leave me alone, and of course he did not reply to my BH and I have not heard from him...

OM lives about 45 mins away from us.

The affair has not been exposed yet to anyone on his side of the family, on my part it has been exposed, but BH is not sure yet on this...when he consulted with an attorney in regards to OC, his attorney suggested that if OM was not to be a part of OC's life then maybe it was useless for OC to know about his bio dad, but it was up to us to decide and he strongly recommended that we tell OC the truth between the ages of 4-7 or never tell him at all.

I already ordered Surviving An Affair...although my husband doesn't want to join this site, but I'm finding a lot of helpful information and knowing from other similar situations...

I hope this time OM never again bothers me and doesn't attempt to intrude in OC's life later in life...I really doubt it, even though he knew OC somewhat he never really cared based on a lot of things that came up, a lot of deceitful lies and also OM's relationship he was carrying with the other OW and mother of other child...I decided not to talk to his BW, my BH suggested to let that go, as that would only create anger in me and would not allow me to fully do my best in our relationship, and to keep in mind that his BW already knew enough about him, she was not oblivious to his behaviors and lies...

I have ordered the "Surviving An Affair"...I think we have a lot to deal with going forward and our primary concern is OC in all of this...I don't know anything about OM and I don't want to know about him either...he had never back off before, but I'm guessing because this time the letter came from BH it's different for him, his not used to dealing with the men that were affected and hurt in his different affairs.

If anyone has any experience with situations like mine with OC I would greatly appreciate information. as my BH believes if we were to tell OC the truth it would only be if he found out later in life if his bio dad decided to look for him when he's an adult, other than that, he prefers to take it to the grave for OC's sake and his brothers...I understand him as he loves this child and doesn't want his quality of life to change in any way or to affect the relationship with his brothers, he wants them to keep growing just the way they are and doesn't want him to ever feel discriminated by knowing the truth, because he is loved the same way nothing more or less from his brothers. Please advice or suggest other forums to read...I been looking for a situation like ours...

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Also writer1 it's been about 6 months that OM had contact with OC...he lived in the same town we live before, but he was forced to move with his parents 45 mins away due to the fact that he was having financial difficulties about 4 months ago.

One of the reasons my BH wrote the letter was actually due to the fact he threatned my safety and son's as well. All these details came out between my BH and I when I confessed, as my BH asked questions it was like uncovering a can of worms for him, but he became very disturbed with that information in particular. I strongly believe that since my BH is now involved I doubt he will come around or intrude in our lives.

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Thanks for all the info Betty.

My OC is 4 years old now and we do intend to tell her the truth when she is old enough to understand (probably around 7 or 8). She doesn't understand the concept of "biological" yet so I think 4 is too young. I do believe children have a right to know the truth about their own identities. In my case, my BH had a vasectomy many years ago and everyone in our families knew this, so everyone, including our older children (aged 18-23) know the truth. Also, being an OC myself, I just don't think it's right to try to keep something like this a secret. Secrets have a way of coming out eventually, and it will be so much harder on your child if he learns the truth from someone else someday. He will fill hurt and betrayed and deceived.

If I were you, I would strongly consider moving. My OM is 3000 miles away and that has certainly made complete NC much easier. He has never seen OC. I think it would be very difficult to ensure that OM stays out of your lives if you continue to live so close to one another.


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**edit**

Last edited by Fireproof; 12/16/12 06:07 PM. Reason: TOS - non MB advice
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Originally Posted by Gamma
**edit**

Those people have no rights in this marriage, though.

The only people due any consideration in this situation are Betty and her H, who want to keep their marriage together. If that is their goal, then the interest of the OC are that Betty and her H have nothing to do with OM and his children, grandparents, aunts, uncles or any "etcs".

This site is Marriage Builders, and Dr Harley's advice is centred on healing the marriage. Aunts and uncles do not come into consideration. Informing OM's relatives about OC, or trying to forge a relationship between them and OC, will only bring about the demise of Betty's marriage. Her H has a right to NC with anything and anybody to do with the affair if he is to stay married to Betty and bring up this child.

Last edited by Fireproof; 12/16/12 06:08 PM. Reason: removing quote

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A reminder to posters to stick to MB concepts if you are going to post to others here. The purpose of this forum is to help posters learn Dr. Harley's views, not our personal opinions.

Thank you.

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These are suggestions Dr Harley has made in similar situations:

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
faithful follower & migsamac:

Revisions of all my books are based on comments and criticisms I receive from readers. �While this topic will already be addressed, any specific questions you have will help in guiding me toward a more complete analysis of the problem.

When it comes to a WH having OC, the no contact rule still applies. �He is usually not required by law to be named as the father on the birth certificate or to provide child support. �But in some cases, a BS and WH enthusiastically agree to provide child support even when his name is not on the birth certificate or the OW does not demand it. �Even in those cases, however, I recommend no contact with the mother or the child. �It's a very painful choice, but as with the WW/OC situation, contact is usually even worse. �Some of the most difficult decisions in life are those where we must choose between two very unpleasant alternatives.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
writer1:

I am revising SAA and it should be in print sometime in 2011, and the problem you raise will be included in it. �But it's particularly difficult to address because of our no-contact-with-the-ex-lover rule on the one hand, and the need of a child to have contact with their natural parents on the other. �Our radio archives have more on this subject than anything I've written so far, because we've had several listeners call in with this problem, and I describe the approach I take.

As you probably already know by now, I tilt toward keeping the marriage healthy at the possible expense of the child not having adequate contact with the OM. �I recommend that at the time of birth, the other man not be mentioned on the birth certificate unless he demands it. �That makes your husband the legal parent of the child. �If he does demand being on the birth certificate, I recommend that he pay child support until the child is 19. �If the OM wants visitation, I recommend that it be done with transparency, so his own family knows what's going on. �A mediator, paid by him, is to pick up and deliver the child so that you and your husband never have to have any contact with him.

In almost all cases that I've witnessed, the OM isn't willing to be named on the birth certificate, pay the child support, or make the situation known to his family. �Under those conditions, I highly suggest that he not be able to visit his child until he or she is an adult. �If an attempt is made, I suggest getting a restraining order. �While that policy seems very rigid and uncaring toward the child, the alternatives are usually disastrous. �Having an old lover around, the cause of your husband's greatest �sadness, has such an devastating effect on the marriage that few survive.

Having heard from some of the couples who have followed this way of thinking, and others who have done the opposite, I am confident that it is the best approach to your situation.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

As you can see from the quote above, Dr Harley clearly states that if OM does visit child it should be in transparency and OM family should know.�

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Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
As you can see from the quote above, Dr Harley clearly states that if OM does visit child it should be in transparency and OM family should know.�

You completely misrepresented what he said above. HE said:

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
If he does demand being on the birth certificate, I recommend that he pay child support until the child is 19. If the OM wants visitation, I recommend that it be done with transparency, so his own family knows what's going on. A mediator, paid by him, is to pick up and deliver the child so that you and your husband never have to have any contact with him.

Where has the OM demanded to be on the birth certificate? Where has the OM achieved legal visitation rights? That has not happened here.

Here is what Harley would advise under these circumstances:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
In almost all cases that I've witnessed, the OM isn't willing to be named on the birth certificate, pay the child support, or make the situation known to his family. Under those conditions, I highly suggest that he not be able to visit his child until he or she is an adult. If an attempt is made, I suggest getting a restraining order.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thank you. OM was demanding all those rights, but never really did anything...in my case OM wanted me to do all the work for him and wanted a relationship with me in order to be part of OC's life, which was not going to happen and as mentioned above in reality he never truthfully wanted that relationship with OC. Although at the time my BH did not know anything, I was clear to OM that because OC was growing he would have to have an open and transparent relationship with OC, he could not play mind games with the little guy...it became a horrible burden on me having to live a double life and he seemed to care less. I put myself in this situation and don't blame anyone but me, OM did what he could and got as much as he could out of me...as time went on, the lies and deceit became a burden on me, and now I'm just glad I confessed to my BH and he's actually being quite supportive on every aspect of our marriage especially with concerns related to OC.

It is my BH will for now, not to mention anything about OC to his family or older brothers, he wants NC with OM or any of his family to know about OC, and this he wants for OC's emotional and psycological well being.

Between BH and myself things are looking well, my BH has established the conditions, we are talking more than before and we started attenting counseling at my BH request and we are very open about everything now, there is no more secrets or lies or as my BH calls it "skeletons in the closet".

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Counseling may not be the best option.
Have you considered marriage coaching through Marriage Builders?

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My situation with my BH is going forward and in a good direction. However, a lot of the times I find myself crying because I just hate myself for everything I have done, for hurting others and look back at my behavior and look at myself looking cheaper than a prostitute! I feel lower than dirt and are so overwhelmed with shame when I have to talk to my BH.

Although BH has given me another opportunity and his plan for recovery is so much like everything I have ran into this site, I have my own issues to deal with and I don't want those emotions to hold me back in our recovery. I have expressed this to my BH. I realized that I'm so angry for degrading myself and allowing myself to go that low...for tainting my life and more for those that love me as well, my family. I think with my BH I have a bright future to look ahead for myself and our sons, but it's so difficult to get rid of the anger because I'm angry at myself for than anything, I hurt just thinking of how selfish I was behaving and I'm disgusted to look back and see my behavior and how I never acknowledge my wrong doing, I was wrotted in my own selfishness and blinded myself to see my disgusting behavior, I was an acomplice to hurt others...

I'm so disgusted with myself for being an adulteress and feel so filthy...now I know my little guy will be fine and will always have loving and caring people in his life. But, when I think of my emotions, I don't want this to be in the way and detriment my effort to move forward in my marriage. I especially don't want to give a mediocre effort on my part, because I find myself at times very optimistic thinking of my future with my BH and then those feelings come to mind and taint my hope...if anyone can direct me to read on different forum to address these issues plese let me know, I would very much appreciate it.

God Bless.
Betty

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Originally Posted by Betty
It is my BH will for now, not to mention anything about OC to his family or older brothers, he wants NC with OM or any of his family to know about OC, and this he wants for OC's emotional and psycological well being.

Betty, your H is exactly right and Dr Harley would support him in this. The reason is because the best interest of OC lies in you having a healthy marriage. That comes FIRST. A healthy marriage benefits ALL of your children, including the OC.

Quote
Between BH and myself things are looking well, my BH has established the conditions, we are talking more than before and we started attenting counseling at my BH request and we are very open about everything now, there is no more secrets or lies or as my BH calls it "skeletons in the closet".

I am sorry to read you are attending counseling since marriage counseling is so destructive to marriages. They have an 84% failure rate and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. I would strongly encourage you to get the book Surviving an Affair and follow the program in there. It is completely different from any other program or counseling out there in that it focuses on restoring ROMANTIC LOVE to your marriage. No other program does that. It also contains steps to affair proof your marriage. You don't need counseling to have a great marriage, you just need to follow the steps in that book.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I did get the book, and started myself reading it. I actually

However, my BH wants nothing to do here. The counseling we started is through our church, it's more like a apiritual coach for the both of us, but the focus is our marriage and husband and wife relationship. A lot of it, I can relate it to MB principles. Nonetheless, I keep encouraging my BH to at least start reading the book.

For now, I'm trying to read as much as I can, to do my best for him and help him in any way that I can.

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Originally Posted by Betty
because I find myself at times very optimistic thinking of my future with my BH and then those feelings come to mind and taint my hope...if anyone can direct me to read on different forum to address these issues plese let me know, I would very much appreciate it.

Guilt is your conscience's warning system that you have made a mistake. That is a good thing, not a bad thing! The day you don't feel bad about being bad is the day your conscience is DEAD. I suggest you EMBRACE the guilt and recognize it is your friend not your enemy.

What you can do to alleviate your pain is to make amends, just as you are doing now. You have confessed your crime to your husband and are taking the steps to make just compensation.

EMBRACE your guilt, Betty. If you didn't have guilt, you would be a sociopath. It is a sign that you are a good, decent person.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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