That is good. But I will tell you that marriage counseling, even through churches, is damaging to marriages. Dr Harley is a Christian and his program is biblically based. The difference between his plan and others is that his actually WORKS.

The way it works is to restore romantic love to fill the WOUND left by the affair. When that happens, the marriage is happy and recovered. BUT...when a romantic marriage is not acheived, the resentment of the betrayed spouse poisons the marriage. If you read the threads around here you will immediately be able to tell the difference between who actually worked the program and who didn't. The ones who didn't experience resentment that grows year after year. Those who did work the program don't have residual resentment.

Also, if you can swing it, this workbook would be an invaluable aide: Five Steps to Romantic Love


It has the necessary worksheets you need to get through the program. One of the most important parts is getting in undivided attention time. That will restore the romantic love the fastest to your marriage. The Policy of Undivided Attention


The workbook is $11 but you could get it free if you send an email to the radio show and ask for Dr Harley's advice. You don't have to give your name. They just read and answer your email on the show.

Thank you so much! You have given me so much hope, words cannot explain my gratitude and will only keep reading. I want my marriage to succeed and I want my BH to trust me once again and move forward with our sons.

You are doing just great, Betty! I know it took a lot of balls to tell your husband. And if you have the nads to do that, you have the strength to pull your marriage out of this bad place.

Totally agree.

Good job Betty for doing the right thing.

I would say my situation is similar. You even coincidentally picked the same thread title as mine. Even that OM lost his job over the whole thing is the same - I told the guy he had a choice to call and resign before noon, or he would be fired. At 11am I paid a visit to my FIL (his boss) and when no call came in by 12, I told my Dad everything and that he was not to work there anymore.

"Another OC Story". you can find it on this board.

Betty, I have read most of your thread. I am so happy you have listened to and acted upon the good advice you've received from folks here. They are truly remarkable people. I hope you continue to follow the directives and I really hope you can get your husband on board here.

If he were sitting in my living room right now (I would think that's a little strange because it's Christmas Day, although all are welcome here. ) I would BEG him to read my thread as there are a lot of points that would be pertinent to him.

It's also imperative that you and him both follow the words of Dr. Harley throughout the recovery process; deviations could lead to great confusion and an incomplete marriage recovery. 6 months from now, when the novelty of all this wears off, you do NOT want to fall back into the same marital habits you are used to -- following THIS program will prevent that. All others will only make you feel good for the time being, but not necessarily be a PLAN for long-term success.

The only thing worse for you and your DH and OC at this point would be to not have an even better marriage than you ever imagined, would be to go through a divorce (or another affair on either of your parts; and if you don't think it could happen after what you've been through, think again).

There is important information in my thread about when to tell the OC (actually it might be another thread that I jacked - I'll check that). Your attorney has actually given a good guildeline in my opinion except for the "if not then, then never" -- Never is not an option in my view. Fortunately, he's young so you have time to research that one.

Merry Christmas, Betty and Mr. Betty!!

opt

Here is optimism's story.
Another OC Story

Thanks Brainy!!

here's the other thread I mentioned that might be helpful.
Telling OC the Truth
I revived it and posted on the last page in regards to my own situation. The whole thing is very insightful and relates to to your situation.

opt

Thank you Optimism! It was the most difficult thing to do, having to face my BH face to face and confessing, it was like uncovering a can of worms! It was the best decision because it also helped me understood the level of pain I caused to others, especially my BH. Prior to telling him the truth, and looking back at everything now, I realized how my own selfishness corrupted my own concience and heart it many ways I never would have thought nor imagine I would be. I was left with so much anger towards OM, and my BH has been just amazing during this entire time...I think I placed all the blamed on OM, I was becoming so overwhelmed with hate towards OM, but then I started to see the real man and became disgusted with myself for allowing someone to use me and walk all over me, then I became angry with myself and being open with my BH has helped me tremendously in these last couple of weeks. I don't look at OM's actions, he is the person he is, the person I'm concerned with is myself, the person I am and the person I lost along the way and becoming someone else, not the person my BH married 13 years ago. I only focus on my actions and take full responsibility for what I did and the fact that I was another persons accomplice in hurting many inocent people, this is what I am left with to deal. As the days go by, I only think of those I hurt, and I could care less about OM feeling angry because he was fired and his ego getting hurt. During the entire time I was involved with OM, I was more concerned about his feelings so to speak and allowed him to use me as if I was a puppet and I'm so disgusted with myself for this, looking back is so hurtful to see how cheap my actions were...my only problem is that I do not want these feelings to affect my effort on giving my best to our recovery, especially to my BH, even though we are very open now about all of this, I don't want to make my BH doubt for an instant that I am not giving my best because I am so consumed with my past mistake, how do I know if I'm not focusing on myself rather than recovery from all of this? I see we both have come a long way myself and BH, but it is both our desire to overcome this...

OC is our priority and our two older sons. We are determined to have a better marriage as you mentioned better than it ever was for OC and his brothers sake and well being as well as ours...for now, we are both working on our relationship and strenghthening every aspect of our marrieage, but will leave the part of telling OC the truth until later in life. My BH is doing his research on this subject and one of the things that he mentioned was how detrimental it is for children to know about a mothers affair in comparison to a father's affair. He mentioned the consequences were by far worse when the mother failed in the family and the effects on her children were also in most cases by far more devastating in those children. With this in mind, he has decided not to tell our sons anything, this would be something he would discuss with them as grown men, when all three are grown men but not now or anytime soon. He wants to use this time to strenghthen our marriage and family, so when that day comes he will stand by my side and tell them the truth.

We are both doing a lot of research on this, we both love him and are looking out for OC's best interest...I hope he could accept and read all the information I'm getting here because it's been very helpful to me in all aspects.

You will have sons 30 years old that will be upset that the lives they have lived will be a lie.

My BH is doing his research on this subject and one of the things that he mentioned was how detrimental it is for children to know about a mothers affair in comparison to a father's affair. He mentioned the consequences were by far worse when the mother failed in the family and the effects on her children were also in most cases by far more devastating in those children. With this in mind, he has decided not to tell our sons anything, this would be something he would discuss with them as grown men, when all three are grown men but not now or anytime soon. He wants to use this time to strenghthen our marriage and family, so when that day comes he will stand by my side and tell them the truth.

Good for your BH!! I would also advise (and I believe I have a pretty learned opinion here) that you focus on recovering your marriage to previously unimagined heights. That would be the best thing you can do for all of your children. With that, the truth of what happened flow and be accepted as inconsequential to the happiness and contentedness of their upbringing. Do everything you can to build a strong marriage that gives them the safety and support they need to develop into strong kids/adults. By focusing on each other and meeting each other's needs and avoiding doing anything to hurt each other (LB's), you will be giving them the best gift of all.

Your BH sounds like a very smart man. He reminds me of me in that he is doing research and finding out as much information as he can. I'm sure that in the interest of getting a well rounded body of information to guide his thinking, he would be very interested in Dr. H's appraoch on the subject. Dr. Harley has some very good articles on telling kids the truth about adultery- including age specific recommendations.
I hope he'll take the time to go through the "tour" of this site, and perhaps the Basic Concepts. Then, to go through the articles and find the information to add to his research.

If I had done the above I could possibly have saved a RA (look it up), incomplete recovery, and eventual divorce. I didn't know about MB until it was too late. Your husband does not have that excuse.

opt

I believe this is a personal matter and a decision that is left to parents to decide. There is no right and wrong as every situation is different and the reactions will be different on each case. It's not the same being adopted and being having two parents that had an EA. I can completely understand my BH and his position on this matter...for now, we have decided not to bring this to OC's attention as OM has made no contribution whatsoever to his life and will not be a part of his life, he has his own and is living his own life without any regard for OC, why should we bother at all to bring this up and have our little guy wonder over this person??? We might have angry kids either way...there is so much out there, OC's that would have preferred to known the truth early in life, others that are thankful they knew as grown adults and care less about their bio parent...

It's extremely difficult to say what is right and applies to everyone. We are running the same risk, either way...as for the other family that they are missing out, I don't think so! In my particular case, OM's family knew about OC, in fact his father, "grandfather" knew before he was born, the only time he ever contacted me was when he was needing a job! He never contacted just ask how OC was doing, just as OM they wanted a secret relationship with OC! I don't think so! Also, understand this grandfather also cheated on his wife his entire life, in fact at his age almost 70 he's still carrying an affair of more than 15 years, so I highly doubt he's concern about any of his grandchildren, his living his life as he pleases as well and carrying on a double life...These as well as many more details I revealed to my BH, and after talking all of this and much more, we both have the certainty that in his (OC) best interest it's best not to bring this up until he's a grown man, this is our decision for now. I highly doubt OM will ever do what OM in Optimism situation did, I doubt he will ever contact my BH to offer anything and as far as his family goes I don't think OC is missing out on anything. As Opt mentioned, the best thing we can do is provide a family and home for OC to grown and our other sons and when the time comes and we feel right, we will bring this up and discuss it with our sons, at whatever age they are at that point and time. In the mean time we are both doing our homework and research and caring for our little guy. Any advice or suggestions I will appreciate to hear and I do discuss your points with my BH, they are helpful to both of us.

The MOST important thing is your marriage, Betty, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You and your H have the right attitude about this. Protecting the health of the marriage is the best thing for all your children.

I will add that most marriages do not recover from affairs. They limp along in a crippled state of the pre-affair marriage and are worse off after than before. But you don't have to be like that if you use this program in a diligent and methodical way. This program is completely different from other "counseling" venues or marriage programs in that it focuses on creating romantic love to the marriage. Others waste time on "communication" and childhood issues. If you follow this program, you will have a great marriage.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair?

Thank you Melody!!! I appreciate your advice and feedback very much!!! I did get the book and are currently reading it and it's been useful to me and also to help my H who refuses to accept help here. On the other hand, he's always open to listening to what I read in this forum and on the different situations I have come accross here.

I am doing everything on part to help my H and gain his trust back. I'm doing exactly as you and Opt mentioned, focusing on our marriage and so is he, and your absolutely right about those other counseling methods. In the past we attended to something similar and you nail it! They do focus on communication and childhood issues which are useless. We both are focusing on strenghthening our marriage, because the healthier our marriage is the better off our sons will be in the long run. My H concern was OC, and OM wanting to establish a relationship at some point, that's not an issue anymore, because OM will not be in the picture, not now and not later, he will not intrude in our lives in any way or form and certainly not jeoperdize OC mental and/or emotional well being. When my BH emailed OM, he was pretty clear if he dare approach OC and attempted to intrude in this child's life he would put him in jail, but prior to this, BH had already consulted with an attorney on this matter. When I confessed to him, his primary concern became his sons and the very next day he seeked legal assesment. He cares about his sons dignity and integrity and he mentioned he will do whatever it takes to protect his boys, he never begged me to do anything, he immediately set boundaries and gave me a choice, I either was going to put everything in me to recover and take the bad a become a better person or I the door was open to leave and live as I pleased but those boys were not leaving their home. He was clear with me, he knows we can both live apart and we can both support our sons and household without the financial assistance from each other, but to him what matter was his family and preserving what family he had left which in our case were our three sons, if I had chosen to leave him.

Since I have been very open with the details and information with my BH, we don't feel OM will ever be a matter of concern in our situation. We both want to preserve our family intact in every aspect possible and recover from this experience. I don't think I had ever in my life appreciated what I have like I do now. It brakes me to think of how selfish I acted and how I completely lost regard for my beautiful family, I took for granted and did not appreciate everything I had, I especially hurt because I have a H who is a man of immaculate integrity, who has always live with rectitude and the best father my sons could have, how could I have been so stupid and humiliated him the way I did?!?! I still find myself overwhelmed with shame and guilt. But I always think of his words, "It's all or none, I will not compromise in this marriage for my family's and son's sake and will not accept mediocre attempts of any kind!", those words I think everyday and I am very thankful for the opportunity he was given me. We are moving in a good direction, we are making plans and are working diligently to fall in love again.

Thank you for your and advice.

I have not followed your thread too closely -- have you moved, or do you have plans to move? Or was this a long-distance A?

If not, moving is a good idea to get away from the OM.

We have not discussed or considered moving. We both me and my BH have all our immediate family around here. Prior to exposing my EA to my BH, OM mentioned several times he would move far away from here if I kept OC away from him, as if he cared, right? When things blew up and I exposed everything to my BH, he wrote to me angry, and he stated that because I was such a horrible person and got him fired and told about our affair to my H and his W, he just couldn't believe how someone he loved so dearly and meant the world to him could hurt him and betray him like I did...yeah right??? So, the last thing he mentioned on his email was that because I exposed our dirty filthy A, he would go back to his BW's arms...I found this statement his way of "hurting" me so to speak, but I was already so overwhelmed with anger towards him, that it didn't matter, I could care less what he decided to do with his life. His BW already knew everything, and this was the second time he had an affair and had another child with another married woman before they even recovered from the first A, so she knows very well what kind of man she's married to, it's her choice and if they are or not, it's none of my business or concern...I never replied to his email, I cancelled the email and have not heard from him...

I already know the coward he is, and his cowardice works in our favor...he's the type that avoids facing consequences for his actions, and that's his problem not mine or my BH, we actually benefit from his behavior and it's a true blessing to us...he doens't worry us at this point, he's the least of our concern, he was made aware of the outcome would be if he attempted to intrude in OC's life and since we live in California and OC is 2 and half, he is legally and morally my BH son. We are not worried about OM anymore, we are working on our marriage for us and our three sons. We cannot predict the behaviors of others, but we are working diligently on us and whatever comes in the future we plan to face it together and by all means protect our sons and our family. We will handle things as they come, this is not an issue now and will not be later because the involvement of OM in OC's life is nothing to regard for us now, as long as we remain together. These are the conversations me and my BH have, we want to be on the same page and no secrets going forward.

If at some point things change and we feel the need to move and relocate, I'm sure we'll do so, but for now we don't feel the need, we really are working and focusing on us which is the only concern, our marriage.

Moving would be part of the concern for your marriage -- while OM could potentially drive up to your door there is a danger.

I agree with Karma to the extent that your life would always be more comfortable if OM vanished from the face of the earth. It's the 2am notions that creep into your thinking "what if this, what if that?".

However, your assessment describes how it has gone for me to some extent. OM was threatened with real legal ramifications if he came around. I was more comfortable before I found out he now lives 15 miles away. But I can live with that discomfort for now.

I continue to hope that as things move along for you and your husband, you will find a way for him to generate an interest in the information here; or at least with some of the MB material.
--My wife and I had some conflicts in the last few days and wound up reading Lovebusters together; skimming through some chapters. I can't tell you how helpful it was. It's amazing how insightful this information is, even for someone like myself who has been at it for a few years now. I know that this program will help give you a GOOD and SOLID recovery and the best chance at success for your family.

opt

15 miles.

150 miles is still to close.

Move.

Road,
It sounds like your Selfish Demand is directed at me, so I'll address it.
I can tell you that I would love to move, after all, I still live next to one of my ww's former OMs. It has been difficult, and it has affected my recovery for sure. It has also made me feel that I can not be chased away from my home. If anything the OM has become a rat in the neighborhood and rarely shows his face. I on the other hand am highly respected here and well liked.

The OM of OC is also not a factor at this distance. Just as 150 miles might not be far enough, 15000 miles might not be far enough if an OM ever decided to hunt us down.

There are a LOT of factors to consider when moving. So far I have considered them all, I beleive and am comfortable with my decision to stay right where I am. Perhaps I could be convinced otherwise, but one word is not going to do it.

opt