Your WW had 2 OM.

You chose to live near them.

Dr Harley recommends that the BH move his family far away from the OM.

I have seen countless threads here on MB where problems continued to plague the marriage until the BH moved far away from the OM.

How is it a selfish demand when one points out the you would be beter off if you moved far away from the OM.

OM a neighbor. I could never drive by the OM house let along look out a window and see the OM house every day.

Road

I can see your point...

But, as Opt says, there's a lot to be considered when moving your family...I was in the situation you just described, in fact the OM in my situation, moved a couple of blocks from my home, when his BW contacted me and I told her the truth, she left him and he moved to an apartment here in town five minutes away from my home to remain close to OC according to him because he loved him and couldn't be away from him, so he said then...he lived with his 20 year old son, then he moved because he couldn't afford to live on his own, he had to pay child support for his other OC with a different OW...

Right now, I don't know anything about the man and I don't care where he's at, if in fact his wife decided to take him back or not, whatever pertains to him is none of my business and I don't want to know...my BH has that same thought that Opt has, "why should we have to move our family away to accomodate this filthy rat!?!?! If his BW family lives around here, and my BH can care less about that family, he feels if his BW took him back, then she needs to live with her choice, and if her sister decide to tell her anything about OC when they run into him, it's on them, we don't plan to hide, we are moving forward and if anyone feels uncomfortable then maybe they need to move away...my BH is very active in our community and OC is always with him, and he's determined to protect his boys and family. His threats to OM were meant and he has stated he will follow thru if he ever had a change of heart...

But given all the details I have given him, I think we both feel very comfortable and are very sure he will not come back...we both have measured his cowardness and it's to our advantage. He is the type of person who cares too much about his image, so the fact that many people around here know about OC and him, but my BH being the legal father, and his other OC, is too much for him, he lives to make people think he's a great humble man, and the fact that there people both him and my BH know, but they don't know about the situation is more uncomfortable for OM that my BH, because OM is much more concern with his image and what people think of him...I really think if he hasn't left the area he eventually will and restart a whole new image for himself...

Our family is our priority, our marriage is first for the sake of our family...OM, who cares, we are moving forward and with good direction...we are planning travels and short vacations with our sons and time spent on each other as well...we have decided to keep moving forward, whatever obstacles come our way as long as we are together we have the confidence we will overcome anything, but together not separated...

One of the things I'm struggling and maybe I can get some advice here is the resentment, anger and hate towards OM and I tell this to my BH...I pray every time a thought and those negative feelings come to mind to take that away from my heart and to fill it with love to forgive and to forgive myself for my selfishness...I wish 5 years could pass by tomorrow, so I can never think of everything I did again, I been told many times it takes time to forget and that at some point those thoughts will fade and I will think of much less until they become random thoughts...any suggestions I would appreciate very much! I do tell this to my BH, and he agrees that I have to forgive OM and forgive myself, that those feelings leave nothing good but I'm only human as well which is why I feel the way I feel, and I don't hate him for dissapointment, I feel that anger because I allowed him and became his accomplice in hurting so many people, both his family and mine...I really think of the innocent people that we hurt together and for allowing him to manipulate me, the anger towards myself is horrible as much as the guilt for hurting all parties involved. Please advice! I don't want none of this to affect our recovery in any way, the good thing is since I found MB I have found it much easier to communicate with my BH and being completely honest with him, he has been very strong and supportive, that I regret not telling him the truth earlier...had I been honest sooner, maybe I would have save myself the big mess I created for myself and him (BH).

Road, you didn't point anything out. You just said, "move." The explanation offered in your followup post makes a big difference. Thank you for that. I would expect it makes much more sense to new posters as well.

Betty, Road is right. Dr. H would definitly advise your BH to start looking for a new home, I would bet. However, your situation is that he isn't necessarily on board with MB (yet), and you are the WS, apparently feeling quite confident there will be no relapse if you happened to "run into" him at the store, or something like that. No Contact is for YOU and your BS.

I would be really interested in Dr. H's assessment of your situation. I wonder if you'll consider writing/calling the show. It's rare to have a WS's perspective on the show, in my experience. I would also bet that if you had a conversation with them and had your H listen to it, it would help him see how compassionate (not to mention effective) and to the point Dr. H and Joyce can be. Maybe they could even encourage him to write to Dr. Harley, or be on the show with you next time.

I also was hoping that yor husband, in his research, thoroughly investigates the sources of information he finds on the subject of infidelity and particularly of infidelity resulting in pregnancy. There are surely many out there who are quite capable of offering advice. But if they do not have a solid track record of Saving Marriages, then they are logically inferior to the methods found here.

opt

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

Opt,

I am feeling very confident in terms of ending the EA I had with the OM in my situation. I dragged this almost 5 years!!! I really feel I didn't deserve my BH second chance because of that. At some point I was so into OM that I was planning to leave my BH for him, and when I started seeing the kind of coward he was, that he wanted me to do everything for him and "us" before he did anything for me I realized what a mistake it was to believe in him, and to even think he was my soul mate and was so dissapointed he was not the man I thought he was...many people wonder how can one be so stupid to believe that, but I think it goes both ways, for the BW and the OW, we both want to believe we are loved and we give those lies the benefit of the doubt because we care about the person, but in the OW case we want to believe it's true and it will get better, unfortunately we degadre ourselves to becoming lower than dirt and guess what? it never does get any better it gets worse!

As Gamma mentioned in an earlier post, I became just like him...I was deceitful to my family, but I was looking out in OC's best interest, I wanted at some point to confess to my BH and allow OM to have a relationship with OC because he wouldn't back off as many times as I asked him because he refused to let go of OC according to him; as time passed I saw so many inconsistencies in OM in terms of the relationship he was seeking with OC that it was impossible to believe anything he said and I still gave him the benefit of the doubt, and as time progressed I realized he was the type of man who as long as they are and/or live with the mother they are fathers, this was the kind of "man" OM was, and it took me a while to figure this...since OC was born what I did on my part was to slowly back off OM, because I knew I did not have enough will power to cut cold, his wife left him, but I never left my BH, I wasn't going to either, I knew if at any point he found out regardless of the of outcome if my BH chose to D me, it was not an option for me or anything to consider in terms of ever commiting myself with OM if that ever happened...when OC was first born, he would see him once a week and he always received pictures of him, but went from weekly to byweekly, to monthly until he turned two without any warning I cut him cold turkey...he would tell me that it wasn't the best time and although it was hurtful to me on both ends, to allow him to do all of this and to allow him to manipulate me using OC and to lie to my BH...during that entire time my marriage was very mediocre and sour! But on the other hand, putting myself thru all of that pain with OM turned that affection to hate, it's complicated to try to explain...I was in so much pain during that time and having the courage to completely end the A and confessing the truth has set me free beyond what I ever imagined and the outcome, I never would have thought my BH would forgive me...I am confident in myself that I will not have a relapse ever again, because from this I have learned to much! I will never be the same person again, I have establish boundaries that I never had with men and women as well. It was a painful lesson...I don't understand how can anyone after going thru something like this they can just go back do it again, I really think there has to be a emotional disconnection in order for people to commit this kind of mistake over and over again...

And just to clear things, this is not something I feel proud of at all! As women, we always end up by far worse than men do, we crucify women for being the OW, but it seems it's okay and the manly mistake to be an OM...this is what I have seen and learned from this subject...I know there are women out there that don't care, and jump in bed with as many married men as they can and they just don't care, but it's not the case for all. I'm not trying to justify myself either by any means, believe me, when you sin like this, your own sin corrupts you; my mind, my heart and concience were completely corrupted...my thinking was far from rational, obviously that I couldn't see anything wrong in my own selfishness and behavior; all I cared was about my selfishness and his and my concience was dead that I had no guilt in the beginning and some time to come... so many times, friends of mine and family would tell me to end things I didn't have the will power to do so...I paid dearly for all of this and still are, because I still have a lot of shame and guilt for hurting inocent people, his W, my BH and children...

Coming to MB gave me courage I needed to confess, acept whatever consequences and/or outcome and move forward...I am very open about this with my BH, and if he wants to know something I don't hesistate to answer his questions...prior to coming here and ending the A, I felt so lonely, but here I realize how much of this is out there...I'm now thankful I have the opportunity to get my life back and my marriage and family most importantly. I came accross another woman who was in a situation like mine, and I asked her how she felt about OM now that the years have passed, she said she can't see him, she hates him that much, and although he has a relationship with her OC, she has never seen him face to face since she cut him off completely. When she talked to me, her hate and resentment was very clear and I thought of myself, I don't want to hate anyone, I want to be at peace with myself....

Thank you BrainHurts!

I will email my questions...

Also, Opt, I forgot to mention, but my BH is a man of faith...one of the reasons he forgave me was first of all, because prior to having an EA, I always complained to him about feeling like a single mother because he always worked and was too busy expanding his business, for many years I complained about this, so he felt somewhat that had he not neglected me, this never would have happened...in addition, he said he felt I was being honest about regreting this entire situation because of the guilt and shame, and he feels I'm being honest because I'm acknowledging all I have done and how bad and detrimental it is to my family and the OM's family as well...

When I apologize to him, I mean it! This life will not be long enough to regret everything I have done wrong! I think forgiving myself will be most difficult thing to achieve, because as many would say, "how could you not see that it was wrong in the first place to be involved with a OM while being married yourself?", I cannot answer that myself, all I know is it happened and I will regret it my entire life until I die!

I do not doubt your sincerity. You writing seems to place blame on the OM. Remember you willingly did what you did. OM did not hold a gun to your head.

I think you would be better served not going on how bad the OM was and all the hate you have for him. It comes across as if the OM was not such a good salesman you would of not done what he did.

As you talk about men get to make a manly mistake and get to have their affair rug swept.

And the poor WW does not.

How does a WW rug sweep an OC?

An OM can beg to be forgiven, he buy's the Harley books, does the online course, they recover. With time triggers lessen to the point it can be years between and they pass as fast as they came. No visual triggers haunt them.

Is it fair?

Was having an affair fair?

Is it fair that men can not get pregnant (hellyeah from my perspective)?

Life is not fair.

Road and Betty, I completely disagree that it is seen as "okay" for a man to have an A or that it is somehow easier to recover when there is a WH as opposed to a WW. That certainly doesn't seem to be the case on MB. I've never seen anyone say it's just a "manly mistake" when a man has an affair.

There are plenty of WH's whose affairs have resulted in the OW getting pregnant, and those families suffer just as much as when a WW gets pregnant. Many of these WH's have to pay child support to the OW for 18 years, placing a huge financial burden on their families. Some have contact, or a "visual reminder of the affair" and some do not, but most still have to write out that check every month, which also serves as a constant reminder of what has happened.

In my own case, I don't get child support from the OM. We don't even have that monthly reminder. We have NC with him at all. My H doesn't look at our daughter and think, oh that's my OC, she's really OM's daughter. That's not how it is at all. He looks at her and sees his daughter, and that's all. She isn't a "visual reminder" in any way, shape, or form. I don't know if that's how it is in all families that are in our situation, but that's how it is in mine.

This is exactly what I mean by sometimes not explaining myself or depending on the individual what I write may be perceived differently from intended on my part...it's difficult to explain and by no means am I asking for pitty from you or anyone...but the bottom line is wether we like it or not, things will always look worse on a woman period! If a man and woman curses, a women sounds vulgar and guy sounds tough and manly, in general...but this is all irrelevant...nothing is fair on anyone, because of a couple of individuals who decided to act and be so selfish, that's the bottom line! There are consequences and as far as myself, I'm here despite the fact that I have read very hurtful things and comments, but in the end the RAW TRUTH!

If I took the time to answer Opt in regard to the WW is because it's the worse position one can put themselves in...don't you think I rather be the cheating husband, telling my wife I'm sorry, I'm forgiven and go on like nothing happen and people not thinking much of it???? of course I would much rather be in that position! It's sucks being the WW who ruins her family and is literally crucified by all!!! Maybe that's the reason you don't hear much from the WW as Opt mentioned...putting myself in this situation is not pleasant at all and I don't blame anyone but myself because as you mentioned no one put a gun to my head and I admit, I allowed someone to manipulate me, which is only human that I am left with resentment, anger and hate...but this doesn't mean, I cannot function, reason or think...now more than ever am I able to reason, think and are alot more concious about my actions and words.

Road, I don't want your pitty, nor I need you to explain to me what is fair or not fair, I appreciate advice in seeing what I am not, what I should regard and not regard...I have a lot to deal with in terms of my shame and guilt for hurting inocent people that did not deserve none of this...and OM is my experience and not yours or anyone, a very unpleasant one, but it's done and over with, life goes on, I'm not mourning a loss of a significant other here, on the contrary, I'm better than I ever was and I want to help my BH recover and myself and keep moving forward and so far I am thankful for what I got from MB and his willingness and open arms and heart to work through this, the least of my worries is OM, the only time he comes up is here and not our lives nor in my thoughts as much as it was in the beginning and it helps to think of his family and not him when it the past comes to mind, someone here made that suggestion and my BH and it's working great! What the other person does or not it's none of my concern of business and if it's mentioned it's not with the intention to put the blame on the individual, if it's coming accross in a way that I'm trying to blame the guy, he did what he needed to get what he wanted, and I chose to believe something that in the right state of mind no one would do, but if I'm coming accross in way looking for pitty and justification, well NO, it's not my intention, I will analyze what I type before posting.

But thanks for taking the time to share your opinion and advice...I welcome it, because perhaps I'm not looking at everything I should and acknowledging what I need to in order to move forward...

What I like about this program is it is Behaviorally based. This approach makes good use of the fact that we, as humans, tend to believe our actions. IOW, it's easier to change our behaviors than our beliefs; and furthermore, our beliefs tend to fall in line with our actions. (perhaps why it's so easy for people to justify bad behavior).

Point: With the right Extraordinary Precautions in place, you can start to trust yourself (and then forgiveness will follow, becuase you will have a clean track record as evidence of your trustworthiness). Your husband needs to see you observing your EP's so that it is not just a promise of fidelity (after all you promised that once already and look what happened).

Faith and forgiveness are great but they only go so far. Prove to your husband that your ACTIONS reflect your apology to really secure his bond with you. Extraordinary Precautions.

opt

Thank you...your correct writer1, this is why I joined MB, because here it's not something new, but outside of here is tabu.

In my case, my BH loves OC as his own, nothing more and nothing less of his biological sons, OC is his baby boy and he reminds him of nothing and no one, and this is something he expressed to me clearly, and I see it too. He is the same if not more protective of the little one than he ever was. We are working diligently on us and our marriage, for our family our sons. If I'm doing something wrong, please do tell me, that's what I'm here for.

Amen Opt!!! This is how I feel and look at things now, but couldn't put it in words, I don't always explain myself clearly or I write too much...Thank you so much for posting this!!! This is wonderful!!!

That's fantastic!
I will be listening to the show so I hope you choose to be a caller. Joyce is very welcoming and will put you at ease. Let us know when she says she's reading your letter or having you as a guest.

[--all this takes time, BTW. You are doing well, IMV. Keep reading and absorbing information. Lovebusters is a great book. I dusted it off and relooked at it recently. There is a lot of great info there, even for someone who has been doing this program for a while, or if you're just new--]

You will get so much from this program. I read your posts and I sense your anguish. MB helps you re-organize after adultery and gives you specific things to fucus on which are proven to work. Things that will put the actual Romance back in your marriage so you can be in love with each other again. -- bad feelings pale in comparison.

I have a feeling your BH will be on board here before too long. It's going to take him time and he needs to come on his own terms. Writing the radio show will help him see what MB is about. Let him know you are writing a question -- give him a chance to add input, kay? Independent Behavior is a real no-no for you.

If your H is interested in talking to me via email, I would be willing. LMK, we would have to set it up through the moderators.

opt

I did not say that. I was talking about her perceptions.

***edit***

Betty,

One of the things I'm struggling and maybe I can get some advice here is the resentment, anger and hate towards OM and I tell this to my BH

Perhaps because you were conned/seduced by him, and he kept making the crimes you committed with him worse and worse over time. Most of us get conned about something, we learn from it, but never again trust as we once did, perhaps you may be able to convert your hate to indifference, but it is too soon.

I sensed in your first post that this was your first offense, but that he was a repeat offender, and that you felt scammed by a professional. I say this in no way to lessen your guilt or minimize the damage you have done.

***EDIT***

God Bless
Gamma

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A reminder to all posters:

The purpose of our forum is to understand and learn Marriage Builders concepts. It is not a platform to share your personal opinions. If you can help this poster with MB, please feel free to post. If you cannot do that, please refrain from posting.

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