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If I sound needy, I am sorry.


FBH 34 me,FWW 34,
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OK, I have an opinion.
shocked Shocking, right?

This thread is filled with (mostly) personal opinion and personal experience with very little MB concepts. My opinion holds the same weight as everyone else's.

Saying that ..... From personal experience:

Our son was nearly 4 when we got him. Obviously he knew he was adopted. His sister (same birth mom) came 6 months later as an infant. So, obviously he knew she was adopted. I cannot recall exactly how/when we told DD she was adopted. I think it came up in some sort of bedtime reading situation. It was no big deal. She really had only a passing interest. Her best friend was more important to her.

When to tell the kids the 'gory details' of their bio parents?
Who were they?
What were they like?
Why did she have so many kids?
Where are all our siblings?
What happened to bio parents?
I am so happy that we waited until THEY ASKED the specific questions. I waited until they were ready. I did not just unload on two innocent children for the sake of honesty. I considered their developmental level and their state of mind first.

It took ME a long time to work through my anger about their birth histories. If I had attempted to share their story with the kids while I was still angry, it would not have gone well.
I had to find some peace and generosity for the bio parents. I had to find a way not to 'paint' anyone a villain, but to simply deliver the facts.
"This happened." "This is what I know." "This is what I do not know." "This is what I *guess* happened."

But, by the time we were having this discussion, we had a solid relationship.

Despite our care and caution, the results of our son hearing the great ugly truth about bio mom was devastating for him. Not for us, for him. He carried rage towards her for a long time. Since he could not punish her, he punished us.

Regarding their 7 siblings (and half siblings) of the bio mom (she had 9 kids and kept none) .... Both kids have on-and-off expressed a curiosity to meet them. But, not a strong desire. Their whereabouts are protected, but I feel pretty sure a PI could discover the majority of them. If it becomes important, I will pay for that service. However, I have warned both kids not to expect too much. Their 'lost' siblings grew up in some rough areas of Los Angeles. They definitely did not lead parallel lives.

It's still playing out. Our son is 26. Our daughter is 23.
They are very focused on their own lives, and the back story is not as important as one may think.
At least, not yet.




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Originally Posted By: RMX
I am sharing my feelings with my wife, but there is a huggeee communication gap between us and OC. We've just spoken to the mom directly since this all has happened.

W and I are letting them make the next phone call after the pictures were sent to her (OC) moms email.

And (OC) shes 14 now. (15 in august)



Could your wife be struggling with this all as well? Could she be harboring resentment towards you for having to give up this child in the first place?

How was that decision made so many years ago...long before any knowledge of Dr. Harley and MB....was it POJA'ed, so to speak???


If you really need to get with your wife on this one as both of you may need a lot of support as you go through this each with their own feelings, resentments, regrets, insecurities, etc.. Hopefully you'll both share with each other because as Pepperband pointed out...it's likely to be disappointing. [OC has parents...she likely just wants to see you and then go back to her own life].

I hope you have a good experience.

Remember...marriage before children.

Mr. W

p.s. - just thought of this...your own kids might have feelings, questions, expectations about this all too. Especially your little one that maybe didn't know about the OC at all as is young enough to question whether she could be shipped off too. Please keep talking about this and allow others to help you along this path as you may likely need to be more a rock for your entire family than getting bogged down in your own hurt, anger and insecurities.


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

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Mr. W nailed it. hurray

Your marriage comes first. Protect it.
Then, tend to the needs of your COM.
Blue = your area of influence



OC's parents will tend to her needs.
Red = not your circle of influence.


POSOM can tend to his needs, from a distance.
Grey = who gives a damn.

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Well, no real updates, except that they booked a hotel at a resort far nicer than we've ever been to.

Wife is trying not to be intimidated by that, her/our house cleaning is continuing at a rapid pace to make sure its acceptable for the visit.

power washing all my oil spills in the driveway smile


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RMX,

As pep advised only give information that is asked, don't offer any that isn't asked. Answer with age appropriate information that mom is okay with. I still think mom is the one that gets to decide what her child gets to hear ultimately.

"our" OC is now 8. We have had him for visitation since he was 4. Never once in the 4 years has he asked us why his mom and dad don't live together. Never once has he asked about where I fit into this picture. I think because his mom has 5 kids with 3 bio dads it is simply his "normal" to have this type of set up. Will it come up when he is older? Maybe but I/we don't get to control the "spin" his mom puts on the story so I prepare myself for questions that so far have not come.

Since your OC is adopted and a teenage girl I would suspect this is pretty normal for an adopted child to want to find their biological roots. I would be as honest as possible again without offering more than necessary. Maybe she just wants siblings? Who knows with children...especially teenage girls.

Have you and W talked about this much? What does she want? What do you want? What do your children know?


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I find your story very confusing to the point where at times it makes no sense. The description of how this OC is being brought up is particularly contradictory. Why would her mother agree to an open adoption, and tell the child that she is adopted, and then tell her that her married parents gave her away but kept children numbers one, three and four? How does she expect to get away with such a puzzling story, and why is she expecting you to aide her in this deception?

Why would she put herself in the position of having to explain that child number one was kept, then the second child given away (WHY????) then the third and fourth children kept? If she has been telling the child that you are both her bio mother and father, married to each other with kids that you kept, how does she explain (or how did she plan to explain, when the question was asked) your having given only her away? It's not even as if you can explain that you were unmarried and poor when you had your first child and gave it away, then got married and had more children. She is child number two, not number one.

I ask again: why would a married couple keep child number one, then give away child number two, then keep three and four?

This does not make sense, and I can't understand why you haven't asked about this LONG before OC decided to pay you a visit. This is an open adoption. Wasn't the point all along that there would be no secrecy about her origins, right from birth? Isn't that the point of an open adoption?


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Something else that does not make sense is the way you told this story when you first came to the board. You posted this:

Originally Posted By: RMX on September 11 2006
From that point on things got better. It was a do-over. Yes there were relapses and YES, i took some cheap shots but I paid for them believe me. We have two DD and two DS. Oldest S is much better. OM tracks us down every couple of years to ask "how is my daughter" W. promptly tells him to stop calling and that he doesn't have a daughter. If she had listened to him DD would be in a bio-waste container in some landfill. We are celebrating our tenth anniversary on 10/12/06 and I have taken the initiative to plan it because I'm so glag we got this far.

My story, long one but it has a happy ending


In that, your first thread, you state that these events happened 8 years earlier. So you were writing this story 8 years after your wife got pregnant and had the baby, and you wrote that you had two DDs. That whole thread reads as if you kept the baby. That is why I said in an earlier post that you had kept her for a while.

What is this about OM tracking you down every couple of years?

What really happened?


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Originally Posted By: SugarCane

I ask again: why would a married couple keep child number one, then give away child number two, then keep three and four?

This does not make sense, and I can't understand why you haven't asked about this LONG before OC decided to pay you a visit. This is an open adoption. Wasn't the point all along that there would be no secrecy about her origins, right from birth? Isn't that the point of an open adoption?


Your absolutely right sugarcane it doesnt make sense , we got screwed, she OCmom changed the name of the game a few months after the papers were signed.

We went along with her OC's mom's decision to change her mind because theres nothing we could do about it and we wanted to make the best of things. We still got pictures and we still got to call on occasion.

Yeah, we were just a little pissed but the papers were signed, our rights were terminated.

OC was not told about her being adopted until one of her older cousins blabbed she was adopted about a year or two ago.

hope that cleans things up.


FBH 34 me,FWW 34,
DS 14, OC-D 12 (given up for adoption), DS-8, DD-5
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Originally Posted By: SugarCane

What is this about OM tracking you down every couple of years?


OM has a habit of attempting to contact my wife to make threats or get her to talk to him. He's violent, he has three other protective orders against him. He's been in jail a few times.

Originally Posted By: SugarCane

What really happened?


What really happened? Sugarcane, what are you getting at?


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Originally Posted By: RMX
Originally Posted By: SugarCane

I ask again: why would a married couple keep child number one, then give away child number two, then keep three and four?

This does not make sense, and I can't understand why you haven't asked about this LONG before OC decided to pay you a visit. This is an open adoption. Wasn't the point all along that there would be no secrecy about her origins, right from birth? Isn't that the point of an open adoption?


Your absolutely right sugarcane it doesnt make sense , we got screwed, she OCmom changed the name of the game a few months after the papers were signed.

We went along with her OC's mom's decision to change her mind because theres nothing we could do about it and we wanted to make the best of things. We still got pictures and we still got to call on occasion.

Yeah, we were just a little pissed but the papers were signed, our rights were terminated.

OC was not told about her being adopted until one of her older cousins blabbed she was adopted about a year or two ago.

hope that cleans things up.

I'm sorry but it doesn't.

I find your posts really hard to make sense of, because you don't say things straightforwardly!

How did you get screwed?

How did she change the name of the game? What, in fact, was the name of the game? What did she change her mind about?

I didn't ask whether you were pissed. I asked what story the child was told about you and the reason her married "parents" gave her away and kept the others. Since she seems to be meeting you under the impression that you are her father, what has she been told about why her "mother and father" gave her away and kept the others?

I can't ask this question any more simply. What has she been told, and why?


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Originally Posted By: SugarCane
Originally Posted By: RMX
Originally Posted By: SugarCane

I ask again: why would a married couple keep child number one, then give away child number two, then keep three and four?

This does not make sense, and I can't understand why you haven't asked about this LONG before OC decided to pay you a visit. This is an open adoption. Wasn't the point all along that there would be no secrecy about her origins, right from birth? Isn't that the point of an open adoption?


Your absolutely right sugarcane it doesnt make sense , we got screwed, she OCmom changed the name of the game a few months after the papers were signed.

We went along with her OC's mom's decision to change her mind because theres nothing we could do about it and we wanted to make the best of things. We still got pictures and we still got to call on occasion.

Yeah, we were just a little pissed but the papers were signed, our rights were terminated.

OC was not told about her being adopted until one of her older cousins blabbed she was adopted about a year or two ago.

hope that cleans things up.

I'm sorry but it doesn't.

I find your posts really hard to make sense of, because you don't say things straightforwardly!

How did you get screwed?

How did she change the name of the game? What, in fact, was the name of the game? What did she change her mind about?

I didn't ask whether you were pissed. I asked what story the child was told about you and the reason her married "parents" gave her away and kept the others. Since she seems to be meeting you under the impression that you are her father, what has she been told about why her "mother and father" gave her away and kept the others?

I can't ask this question any more simply. What has she been told, and why?




She changed her mind on telling the OC that she was adopted!!!!

OC FOUND OUT FROM A RELATIVE.


FBH 34 me,FWW 34,
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We wanted a open adoption, that what we told all the prospective parents. They agreed, after the adoption, they changed their mind.

Thats how we got screwed.


FBH 34 me,FWW 34,
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See, here we go again. I asked a straightforward question and you have not answered it. I asked:

Originally Posted By: SugarCane
In that, your first thread, you state that these events happened 8 years earlier. So you were writing this story 8 years after your wife got pregnant and had the baby, and you wrote that you had two DDs. That whole thread reads as if you kept the baby. That is why I said in an earlier post that you had kept her for a while.

What is this about OM tracking you down every couple of years?

What really happened?

And your answer is

Originally Posted By: RMX
What really happened? Sugarcane, what are you getting at?

What I am getting at is that in 2006 you said "we have 2 DDs and 2 DSs" as if you had kept the baby. The whole thread was written, 8 years after the event, as if you kept your family together.

You only said she was adopted 2 years after being on MB.

I'm only asking whether you kept her for a while and then got her adopted later. If not, why did you write that way in your first thread - as if she was still with you?

Is that clear now?


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No, we didn't keep her for awhile. I can understand the confusion because I didnt mention the OC. MEDC/MECD and TheRoad and I have disussed OC at length in other threads tho.

I've mentioned in several subsequent threads we gave her up for adoption.


FBH 34 me,FWW 34,
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Originally Posted By: RMX
She changed her mind on telling the OC that she was adopted!!!!

OC FOUND OUT FROM A RELATIVE.

Okay: You are getting exasperated with me.

The trouble is (for me reading this thread), that you have posted a very incomplete story here, and looking back on your threads, you have never told it clearly in a straight line. How is anyone supposed to know or understand what went on with the adoption if you never made it clear?

You never before explained why open adoption took the form of you having contact with the child, but under the conditions that she thought you were her aunt and uncle.

You never explained that her mother had been trying to hide the fact that she was adopted - she wasn't just waiting for questions to come up which never came, but she was positively trying to hide it. You never explained that the girl only found out a year ago, via another relative.

And you haven't explained why you haven't discussed with the mother your refusal to lie and say you are her father when you finally meet.

The child's mother presumably underwent scrutiny and training as part of the adoption process; one cannot adopt a child without a barrage of test, including those on attitudes and values, being run on the adoptive parents. If she agreed at one point to an open adoption, she must have had some education into the perspective that the child needs to know about her origins, and will find out about them one day, and that it is better to be open about these than to lie. Adoptive parents are encouraged to read story books that have an adoption storyline, and to look at baby photos and explain that the baby grew in another Mummy's tummy, and then she was given to the adoptive Mummy. Adoptive parents are encouraged to tell the truth in age-appropriate ways.

Now, I do understand that adoptive parents could just take the baby and not do any of this, but the puzzle for me has been that this adoptive mother did some of this. She allowed you to have much more contact than happens in most adoptions. You spoke to the child directly. You were allowed to send presents. She sent you pictures.

So, forgive me for not understanding the holes in the story, which are why she did those "open" things but misled the child about her "married parents" keeping children numbers 1, 3 and 4, and giving away number 2. And the other big gap in my understanding is why you have agreed to meet this child but haven't cleared any of this up with her mother.

Is she expecting yo to lie? if so, why? Why does the mother not just tell her about the affair, which will make the reason for the adoption understandable? What is she hoping to achieve by telling the girl that you are her father? This is completely inexplicable, and I can't see why you haven't asked about it.

Are you going to tell her in advance that you won't lie?

Wouldn't it be a good idea to clear all this up in advance and not have an ugly mess at, or after, the meeting?


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I apologize for the confusion.

There any many subsequent threads where I discuss the adoption.

Delean-DE

Our kids (#1, #3, and #4) have always known about the OC, always, but it was not a two way street with OC's mom.



Last edited by RMX; 03/22/13 09:01 PM.

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I do know that she was adopted. That much was always clear. What wasn't clear was why you said in your first post that "we have 2DD and 2DS" on a thread about your "happy ending" as if, 8 years later, you still had this girl living with you. That is where my confusion about WHEN she was adopted sprang from. I can lay this to rest now.

Do you have any answers to the questions in my last post? Why didn't you clear up the issue of parentage as soon as you agreed to see the child?

Have you cleared it up since you first posted this thread?


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We haven't had a sit down heart-to-heart phone call at length with Oc's mom. We need to do that since we are both home tonight.

I don't know, thats why im going through alllll the possible scenarios, to lie or not, to tell the truth.

If the OC's mom says "lets play it be ear, that will probably frustrate the hell out of me"


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Originally Posted By: RMX
We haven't had a sit down heart-to-heart phone call at length with Oc's mom. We need to do that since we are both home tonight.

I don't know, thats why im going through alllll the possible scenarios, to lie or not, to tell the truth.

If the OC's mom says "lets play it be ear, that will probably frustrate the hell out of me"

And doesn't the OC's mom not think this smart 14 year old will wonder where 1/2 of her race comes from??

I mean, both you and your FWW are white and she's obvious 1/2 another race, correct?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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