Hi Mom,

I think it's GREAT that you have decided to come back to post. You truly can get a lot of support here. Just keep in mind - advice and accountabiity is a part of that support. It isn't because you were the FW, ANYONE who posts here gets advice and accountability.

Make no mistake - your life does change after everything that's happened. Sometimes there are things that are difficult - including people we have to cut out - but what you get in return is MUCH better. It ends up being very good change!

As others have suggested, you just need new, marriage-friendly friends, not shallow friends who just steer you the way they want you to go. Since my H and I began recovery 2 1/2 years ago, I find we both have a very different mindset about life, marriage, family, and friendships than we did before. We just discussed this last night in fact. It isn't that we never do anything without each other - but it is never at the expense of our marriage or with people who don't treat marriage as sacred as we do. His leading the way in this effort has been a GREAT comfort to me!

You have to focus on what you're building, not what you're losing. That's the key!

I do think it is an issue in this profession.

xWH was a nurse. He held a party for his coworkers at our home at one point. Imagine my shock when only 2-3 people showed up with their spouse (about 25 coworkers showed). These folks were drinking heavily, dirty dancing with each other, flirting and sitting on each others laps, etc. Apparently many of them socialized with each other outside the workplace without their spouses. This was also the case in the next hospital xWH worked in.

Dr Harley also told me there are MANY affairs in the medical profession ------> long hours, nature of the work they do, men and women working closely together.

How weird....

Wow - you guys have given me a lot to chew on.

I would like to first address the work environment. It is the only work environment I know. I was 17 when I started college and began working in this profession and its atmosphere. I have known people for 20+ years and have never met their spouses and we have gotten together outside of work. I don't know what to make of it. I would definitely say that many in the profession are divorced, that several that I know who are married are not necessarily happy, some have had affairs or their spouses have had affairs, many are on a second marriage, and some are not married, but having children. I rarely see spouses at any events outside of work. I guess I figured that the statistics would resemble the general population. I do know that I have asked my husband to attend several things with me and, at the time, he declined. Maybe he knew that he could be one of a few spouses that come or maybe he just didn't want to come. I know that this piece is what he and I are working on now. Even at my new job, we have had events like a Christmas party and happy hours and it does not include spouses. I don't go to these events anymore if spouses are not welcomed. The problem, of course, is that I never dreamed of cheating on my spouse before, so going to these events was benign to me. That isn't the case anymore. Now my new reality puts me in a position where I can't go, so socializing with many in my profession outside of work is non-existent. Believe me, I am sure there are many happily married nurses, I just don't know many of them. Maybe I set off vibes of my own unhappiness and this is what I have attracted. I do know that married people, happy or not, are going out without their spouses because they want to.

The "feeling alone" piece eats at me a lot. Like I said previously, this situation has left me "friendless", although a friend would have been there to support me and my old colleagues did not. My days were spent working, so I considered my colleagues to be my friends. I didn't really get involved in a lot of community activities where I could socialize and meet people. My children are very active in the community with school, sports, synagogue, and volunteering, but I never got overly involved with the socializing piece, because, quite frankly, I knew that my marriage was troubled. He and I rarely engaged each other, let alone getting involved in the community like a "functional happy couple". I do believe that this is what we need to do now though. I find it difficult at times, because we have spent so much time repairing our marriage and ourselves, it is hard to get out there with any level of confidence. I am just really scared.

I'm a nurse.

My sister is a nurse.

Two of my aunts are nurses.

My other aunt and other sister are long time nurse's aids.


Yes, it is very common.

No, we don't have to participate.

I have only ever fraternized with coworkers once - with my wife. It is very well known that I am not to be contacted for personal matters. Every coworker knows this. All my coworkers know my wife - she makes her presence very well known.

Though, I work in a family-owned long term care and rehab...

I don't know what a "functional happy couple" is, but I know that couples who are head-over-heels in love would rather be marooned on a desert island together than engaged in a community.



I have to correct my post just previous to this one; my wife and I attended the company Christmas party together - it was held in private lounge at a local hotel, and we had a blast. We attended with my best friend and his other half, as she works in the rehab department here as an aid.



Mom - your story very closely mirrors that of my sister. Though, in her case, rather than her having an affair, her husband developed a heroin habit. A few years before that happened, I heard what I now know as a death-knell phrase from him "If we didn't have kids, we wouldn't be together."


Now, she sounds like your typical description of a hospital nurse - divorced, and just out partying. I think she's in Vegas right now...


As far as feeling alone - Mel has already stated, your focus needs to be on creating an interdependent, romantic marriage to fill those voids.

That means putting your marriage first.

HFM, for one's sixth post, your last one shows a real ability to "cut to the chase" and find the key points.

Look at your first paragraph - that pretty well defines the ill-fated "what was".

Your second paragraph demonstrates "what must be", with the added disclosure that you're....nervous?....scared?....about starting. Can I give you a hint? Don't think about getting involved as a "socializing" activity. Just approach it as getting a certain job done, with HFD as a partner. Volunteer to bring the snacks for the athletic contests, or possibly pick up the responsibility of uniform ordering, etc. I know your son recently Bar Mitzvah'd (L'chaim!), and certainly there are administrative/assistance (scheduling, decorating, whatever) duties that together you and he can assume to aid families going through the same process. In any environment, find a need, and offer to fill it.

Anyway, I'm very glad you're here.

hfm, my point is that you should not have to go outside of your marriage for your happiness. Your marriage should be your main source of happiness. In a good marriage, you will be very stingy about sharing any of your together time with other people, even as a couple. My H and I can always go out with my sister and her husband with their circle of friends, for example, but we usually prefer to be alone together. We enjoy going out with them, but we REALLY enjoy being together on dates.

How happy is your marriage? How many hours of UA time are you getting every week?

Hey, hfm! Good to see you back!

I'm glad to see you acknowledge this. It's healthy for you to understand and accept that your affair has become a part of the quilt that is your life, just like any other good or bad experience is part of the history of your life. Of course it isn't going to 'go away.' If only it were that easy! What you choose to do with the experience determines how you grow from this. Make sense?

Hmmm. These chickies sound more dependent than you - they're dependent on each other! HFM, not only are you showing healthy boundaries by declining invitations that don't include Dad, you are showing proper 'dependence' on your marriage. Sheesh, why would you want to go hang out with a bunch of women when you could be with Dad? These women do not sound happy in their marriage. You should avoid women who are unhappy in their marriage. You know what they do when they get together? They carp and complain about their husbands. That's a toxic soup you don't need in your life. Blech. What a waste of time.

hfm, may I?

Stop it. You're looking at this totally cross-ways. Let's reword this, shall we?

"I have officially eliminated 'friendships' that were toxic to my marriage. How liberating! My extended family are a bunch of goofy folks, but I love them. My home and family are together, showing strength and endurance after weathering a terrible storm. I go to bed every night with the man I love and fall asleep knowing that he would do anything for me. How great is this!! Fist-pump!!"

See the difference? I said the same things you just said.

You know how many friends I have that I socialize with, hfm? One. She's my best friend and I've known her for decades. Our children grew up together. I see her for dinner about once every two or three weeks. We don't talk on the phone except to say "Hey, dinner tonight?" We spend about two hours getting caught up over dinner. I take a picture of the menu and send it to Mr. Bliss. He picks what he wants and I order his to go.

I do not socialize with co-workers. I see enough of them during the day. My evenings and weekends are devoted to Mr. Bliss. I don't feel a bit deprived or 'dependent'. I hurry to get home to him after work and we're pretty much hip-to-hip all weekend. It is LIBERATING to live like this! It is depressing to me to hear about couples who 'do their own thing' sans spouse when they're not working. I feel sorry for them.

I sense that you feel deprived or feel like the odd man out because you have chosen to immerse yourself in your marriage. Am I right?

Geez, you should hear about MY crazy extended family! I don't have a lot of contact with most of them. I pick and choose my interaction. It's healthier for me that way. You don't HAVE to confide in them, or rely on them. It is LIBERATING to live like this, Mom.

And if I may be so bold You've got a lot of friends here who are 100% supportive of your marriage. And we're not even mad at you for not touching base with us sooner. We're just glad you're back!

PS,


This forum isn't a consequence, it is a gift.

Your new marriage isn't a consequence, it is a gift.

Your marriage, your life, is in remission from cancerous habits.

From today on, own that. Choose to survive and thrive, rather than suffer as a victim.

I know you've seen it. Time to live it.

Part of my problem is that I am feeling lonely in the marriage.

Example, last night we decided to watch a movie in bed. We were watching pay per view and there were three movies that we hadn't seen in the theatre. They just came out on pay per view. Well, we didn't know the content of any of the movies, so we picked one. I did hear that the movie we picked was comical, and believe me, I could use a laugh once in a while. Within the first 20 minutes of the movie, a flash-back of the wife having an affair appeared on the screen. Apparently, we picked the wrong movie. HFD gets "the look" on his face, and leaves the bedroom. I wait a few minutes and then begin calling for him, "are you ok, I'm sorry and are you coming back?" He eventually does and I tell him that we can watch another movie if this makes him uncomfortable, for which he responds with an AO telling me I should stop interrogating him. His mood changes for the rest of the evening.

Example, HFD keeps his back toward me at night. He says his hip/back hurts, so I have changed my side of the bed monthly so that his front is toward me. Each time I change my side of the bed, HFD turns the other way. I still get his back no matter what side of the bed I sleep on. I am affectionate and would like my partner to hold me at night. I have always been affectionate and would like some affection back. This was a huge problem for me prior to the affair - the fact that HFD, in my opinion, lacked affection. I mean, I literally begged for it and often to no avail. After the affair, he did hold me at night, but it didn't last. I imagine the shock of it all and reading Dr. Harley's book helped. We both expressed what our top needs were, wrote them down, and kept copies on our nightstands.

This is just two quick examples from last night. I often feel like I'm suffocating. There are times in the marriage where I can't breathe, like I'm having a panic attack. I am overwhelmed.

Have you talked to Dad about this? These are three sentences that he needs to hear.

What, exactly, is going on when you feel like this? Is it during discussions or activities with Dad?

I am concerned that Dad knows of your need for affection and appears to not be filling that need. That's a no-no, Dad.

As far as the movies go: I have found that, short of watching a Discovery Channel documentary on the eating habits of the New Zealand guinea pig, it's hard to avoid references of infidelity and other immoral behavior in movies. You can avoid them completely by not watching movies at all. Or you can have someone pre-screen the movie for you and give you the 'all-clear.' Both options may or may not be a burden for you.

I remember watching a Seinfeld episode not long after we'd started recovery. It was the episode where George was having an affair with a married woman. OUCH! Mr. Bliss made a comment along the lines of "Not a very comedic episode." We watched the entire show (thankfully, the storyline eventually addressed the affair as being very negative.) But the act of watching the show and not flipping the channel helped us face the topic head-on. My suggestion to you and Dad would be to do the same thing. Don't duck and run when the topic inevitably comes up. Don't give it that much power. You can defuse the situation by making a comment like Mr. Bliss did.

Now, on the flip-side: don't go looking for the topic. If you know that there is an infidelity theme in a TV show or movie, skip that program entirely. It has no value to you and will not add anything positive to your lives. If it broadsides you, like the Seinfeld episode did us, consider eliminating some of the emotions that it will bring up by talking about it: "Boy, George sure learned the hard way to stay away from married women." That puts the emotion onto the character and away from the two of you.

That helped us. Maybe it will help you and Dad. Mr. Bliss and I are 4+ years into recovery. I can watch TV and not blanch when a reference is made about infidelity. The most action it gets from me is maybe an eyeball-roll or a shake of the head.

Mom, I've posted a call-out thread for Dad. I want to talk to him about his response to that movie, as well as his habit of sleeping with his back to you.

I have this issue as well. And my wife doesn't feel comfortable unless she sleeps on the outside edge of the bed.

This is an issue that can be addressed using brainstorming and PoJA.

I do two different things;

1) I will get as comfortable as I can, and cuddle to my wife until she falls asleep.

2) If I roll away, I scoot up against her as tightly as possible so our bodies are in contact (she likes this as well, as it supports her... and I give off a lot of heat, which feels good on her back).


You can discuss this with Dad, and come up with solutions that you are both enthusastic about!

I am glad MB addressed this with you.

I can see language that shows you feel sorry for yourself by some of the other posts (ex, "believe me, I could use a laugh" etc)

This doesn't make your BH more empathetic towards you and doesn't help your M. No offense, but if I was him, these types of comments would frustrate and annoy me.

FWIW, I work from a home office (and have for a very long time) so I don't have any friends through work. I don't even have a spouse anymore, but I don't think I have ever complained about being "alone". The small group of people that I confide in IRL don't understand the trials I have been through in the past few years (divorce, etc).... Luckily, I have CREATED a great support system of friends through MB.

It is clear that you and HFD are having trouble implementing the MB program. The great thing about MB is that it is action based. It is about changing bad habits and finding solutions. So while I wish you had utilized the forums sooner, please please please continue to post for support and advice on how to put MB to work in your M.

Hang in there....you have great posters helping you!

He shouldn't have made an angry outburst, but why didn't you change the movie immediately? Why did you leave it on when you knew it triggered him? Movies like that make victims of infidelity SICK.

It is the same as a rape victim being triggered by a rape on TV. Would you leave the movie on TV in that case and then ask "if this makes you uncomfortable we can watch another movie?" when the rape victim has fled the room in discomfort?

I am curious why you couldn't show more sensitivity to his reaction and immediately change the channel? You could see how it upset him.

I think one of the main issues is that there is not a clear understanding of the damage done to helpfordad. The incident above reflects a lack of sensitivity and a lack of understanding.

Mom,
I sleep with my back to my wife alot too, but not because I don't want to give affection. Two reasons for me
1. I don't like to be "hot" in bed. I'll spoon my wife for a bit, but it is just too hot, so I roll over to cooler areas of the bed
2. Most beds "dip" a bit in the center, so when I look towards Center of bed it is like I am facing downhill (and our bed is a firm foam bed, the dip is not noticed with the naked eye, but I can feel it). The outside of the bed is a bit firmer so I sleep facing out to maintain looking "up".

I don't know your husbands reasoning, but there may be legitimate reasons for it and he doesn't realize it is an issue.


There are also a few things he can do to help. When he has his back to you, scoot so his back is at least touching you. This is also much cooler in temperature than spooning. Also In my case I will sleep facing my wife but use an extra pillow to not feel like I am falling downhill.

That's why thermostats go down to 60!

Markos, my wife would be cold sleeping IN the furnace.
unfortunately we are opposites there.