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This totally describes how my FWH feels. He is repentant and spends all his waking hours trying to win back my trust; however, he has so little self-respect now that when he is away from me for any length of time during the day, he becomes very depressed. He has said that he doesn't think he'll ever be able to forgive himself for betraying me and his own morals. I am linking to a site where personal responsibility is discussed. *link* I think he'd feel a lot less depressed and lost if he concentrated his efforts on the road that leads to accepting personal responsibility. Making a commitment of self control will increase his self esteem. Just a suggestion .....
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At times I can see it in her eyes that she questions herself and her decision to be with me. That look is not what you think it is. In fact, I have never questioned whether I made the right decision. I have always known it was the right decision. That look is me still trying to grasp that it was you. It cuts to the quick seeing the reflection in her eyes, of the man that she sees. The man I see is the man I married and the man I fought so hard to bring back home. Repentant waywards do NOT get off easy. In many ways, as a FWH, I find myself at a much greater disadvantage in the recovery process than my DW. She found herself able to extend graceful forgiveness to a man that was undeserving, and regretfully I still feel I may forever struggle to forgive that same man. I vividly remember sitting in my backyard talking with my pastor. He said to me that as crazy as it sounded, he would much rather be in my shoes than in tst's because one day tst would look back on all this and have to live with what he had done to his family. That made NO SENSE to me at the time, and I remember thinking that this man has no freakin' idea how I am BARELY hanging on to my life here. But I have so many times looked into tst's eyes and seen the burden he carries, the burden he cannot take off. There are certain things that I cannot do for him and he cannot do for me. Some healing can only come from the Great Healer.
Happily married to HerPapaBear
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found a place where he alludes to restoration of respect, but it is stated as generalization based on testimonials; he doesn't ever give some kind of guarantee or a "theory":
Originally Posted By: Dr. HarleyAs for gaining respect, that will take time. From the day that couples begin our program of recovery, most people find that it takes about two years for trust and respect to return. To be honest, I don't understand why they return, but from countless testimonials, they usually do. It seems to me that an affair would completely undermine a spouse's trust and respect for life, but a successful recovery includes them as well.
_________________________ Sorry Mel, I would be mistaken in my thoughtless notion or "2 years." I guess the good Dr. would have never offered such a foolhearty notion. My apologies, All Blessings, Jerry
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found a place where he alludes to restoration of respect, but it is stated as generalization based on testimonials; he doesn't ever give some kind of guarantee or a "theory":
Originally Posted By: Dr. HarleyAs for gaining respect, that will take time. From the day that couples begin our program of recovery, most people find that it takes about two years for trust and respect to return. To be honest, I don't understand why they return, but from countless testimonials, they usually do. It seems to me that an affair would completely undermine a spouse's trust and respect for life, but a successful recovery includes them as well.
_________________________ Pep, Thanks for all that you do, and in such an innocuous way. All Blessings, Jerry
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I don't see any problem with saying it takes AT LEAST 2 years - that establishes a bare minimum expectation IMO.
At nearly 4 years post-dday, I don't feel much different to how I felt at 1 year and traumatised is not a term I would use.
I think much depends on the attitude and actions of the FWS and if both partners completely engage in recovery the resuylts are markedly different.
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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[/quote] I am linking to a site where personal responsibility is discussed. *link* I think he'd feel a lot less depressed and lost if he concentrated his efforts on the road that leads to accepting personal responsibility. Making a commitment of self control will increase his self esteem. Just a suggestion ..... [/quote] Thanks, Pep. I just read the link and will share with FWH.
D-Day EA 11/29/08
D-Day PA 12/12/08
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OK ... it appears we are all on similar time frames ... do any of you notice how QUICK your anger boils over?
Do you notice that if your WS does anything even remotely entitled, selfish, foggy, etc. ... that you go from zero to PISSED in 1 second?
Stuff that would have gone unnoticed pre-A ... now puts you on full alert.
Admittedly, its better now than a year ago, but I don't see this little side-effect ever completely going away ... just another one of the little "gifts that keep on giving". BUMP ( I read your recent discovery of OM's photo ) Rev - can you accept a cyber ((( hug ))) from an older female MBer? 
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OK ... it appears we are all on similar time frames ... do any of you notice how QUICK your anger boils over?
Do you notice that if your WS does anything even remotely entitled, selfish, foggy, etc. ... that you go from zero to PISSED in 1 second?
Stuff that would have gone unnoticed pre-A ... now puts you on full alert.
Admittedly, its better now than a year ago, but I don't see this little side-effect ever completely going away ... just another one of the little "gifts that keep on giving". BUMP ( I read your recent discovery of OM's photo ) Rev - can you accept a cyber ((( hug ))) from an older female MBer? GLADLY accepted ... Thanks  Black Raven's laughter at that post even brought a genuine smile to my face ... and they've been few and far between lately. Maybe it takes a similar perspective to enjoy some of this dark "humor". Thanks, br.
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True story: When H was just starting his PA (after the 4 month or so EA) they took off to Monterey on FATHERS DAY weekend. Their first PA was in a hotel near Cannery Row. I no longer get triggered by Father's Day. I recently suggested H and I might go stay with a friend in Monterey (again, no trigger) Granted - I am getting old - but senility can't explain my lack of triggers (yet) ... It's because our marriage is wonderful now and the past events are no longer emotional triggers ... AGAIN --- Letting you guys know there is HOPE for you that you will not trigger this way for the remainder of your lives. MUCH LOVE to all of you 
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GLADLY accepted ... Thanks Black Raven's laughter at that post even brought a genuine smile to my face ... and they've been few and far between lately. Maybe it takes a similar perspective to enjoy some of this dark "humor". Thanks, br. You're welcome! But thank you - I burst out laughing every time I think of that "picture" and today I needed it. Great thread Pep. I'm not 2 yrs out but your comments give me hope to keep chugging along. I never though I'd say this, but I can't wait until I hit the big 40! Let the years fly by!!
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Closing in on yr 2 and yes I still feel traumatized. While many things have improved, the triggers still get to me...I still feel like strangling H on occassion...I'm still not indifferent to Tramp-o-lean...and I still have days I can't believe my H brought this into our lives.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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...I still feel like strangling H on occassion...
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...I still feel like strangling H on occassion...
He just might go for it. 
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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 <~~~ Pep, actively pushing thoughts about David Carradine from her mind.
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BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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This is an interesting thread. Thanks to FightTheFight for drawing it to my attention.
Coming up on 1 year post-D-Day 2, and I am not as "raw" as I was a year ago.
It is hard for me to see tht Taffy is much more comfortable with our recovery than I am. I struggle with letting him know when I am "triggering", since I cannot bring up the A.
But, I remind myself often that Dr. Harley says that, under the right conditions, we would ALL be at risk for an A. I am not "better" than Taffy. He just had more opportunity and much looser boundaries. It could have been me. That is all.
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
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The significance behind "2 years" is this; if after 2 years your marriage is not better than it was before infidelity occurred, you are better off to divorce.
Quite simply, if you have not begun developing the habits to create a romantic, fulfilling marriage after 2 years of being in and around this program, you are not very likely to ever develop those habits; PoJA, PoRH, PoUA, avoiding LBs, meeting ENs.
So; if the condition of your marriage is great, then keep trucking and allow time and consistent LB$ deposits to whittle away at the bad feelings, replacing them with good memories.
My observation is that those that make the most radical changes and hit the bricks hard on implementing the program recover the fastest.
For instance; those that take the advice to move away from the city they lived in while infidelity wracked their marriages.
It's hard to overcome shell-shock when you continue to live on the battlefield.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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The significance behind "2 years" is this; if after 2 years your marriage is not better than it was before infidelity occurred, you are better off to divorce. Better how? Because if that is the measuring stick then I'm not feeling very good.
Me (42)
Her (43) - feuillecouleur
DS(11)
DD(7)
Married: June 24, 2000
Recovered
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The significance behind "2 years" is this; if after 2 years your marriage is not better than it was before infidelity occurred, you are better off to divorce. Better how? Because if that is the measuring stick then I'm not feeling very good. Next line; PoRH, PoJA, PoUA. Avoiding LBs. Meeting ENs. No real plan up till finding MB, Jan 2013. You are only 7 months in to actually having some kind of actual recovery plan, and not just "Plan FTF." Given that, if you are following the program, and two years roll around w/o any improvement in your marriage... you would likely better off to divorce - this would be due to the inability of either you or your wife being unable to follow the program in the present marriage.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Well, I was wondering where I got the 2 year timeframe from and this thread may be it. Does anyone know of a clip or article where Dr. Harley mentions it?
I think in some ways our marriage is better but in some ways it is status quo.
~RQ
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