Thank you, indiegirl. I really would love your help.
**edit**
I understand if that's not an option, but what's been going on in these threads isn't either right now. Neither is what happened to us last night.
Again, thank you for your time. I promise I'm not trying to get a hair flip reaction.

Indiegirl, please PM me with an alternate way to discuss if that is an option.
I can't do this here anymore.

Then access the help of a coach and Dr Harley. That way the Mexican standoff between you won't be an issue.

You can have my email address from the mods if you want it but for what earthly reason?

I can't give you anything other than the MB advice you've already been given.


Dr H would be a far more effective contact to make.

SmileaDay, you can certainly do as you wish, but I think it is very unfair of you to impose your problems on one member. [a volunteer] Your marriage problems are overwhelming and will take the input of many board members. I seriously doubt even that will make a difference. That is why I suggested you get the professional help of Marriage Builders.

I really couldn't agree more. You need the big guns because neither one of you is motivated to take that first risk.

It took many forum members to teach me the concepts.

I understand. I asked because you are the only one that I feel at ease talking to right now who knows MB principles.
I feel like I'm slipping back into depression and I refuse to let that happen again. I'm working on a plan to remove myself from this situation for my safety.

Smile, I don't understand what that means. What is unsafe?

I can't stick around here feeling his rage and judgement of me and waiting for my depression issue to get out of hand again. I need to protect myself. Don't worry, he would never lay a hand on me. Yet, the pain he continues to inflict is more than I can handle right now. This is not a safe place for me.

Specifically how does the 'rage and judgement' manifest itself?

See it's a DJ to say what is going on inside his head. Only he knows that. Tell us instead what you can see/hear that bothers you.

**EDIT**
I'm not feeling depressed right now. I'm pissed. I'm so done with this crap.

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Well it was helpful for me because now I can see what you are on about.

You will feel safer when your husband quits the angry and wounded performance.

So instead of hiding that information you should do this.



This advice is golden and ML has been in your exact shoes. Don't waste it.

Yes, you guys need a coach.

You are both just so angry that this board can't seem to do anything without being insulted in return.

Please find a coach here or sign up to do counseling with Steve. I do not think your current counseling has been successful because you are SO incredibly angry. Counseling like you are currently doing it will keep you miserable and in counseling forever. Give Steve a chance and let him help you have a more positive future.

**EDIT**

Moderator Note: If you have an issue with moderation, contact the moderators by email. Further disruption will not be tolerated.

I've cooled down enough to try again here.

I'm not sure what to do right now. I don't feel equipped to deal with DH's anger, but I know it's there even when he is doing his darnedest to be kind and gentle and I don't want him to be dishonest. He is resentful and sick of me while telling me he loves me and will do anything it takes to get my heart back. Part of me wants to draw that anger out so he acknowledges it himself.

It seems the only way he takes me seriously is when I'm brought to the edge of anger or depressed and broken. But, both ways, he seems to latch onto a few little comments and miss the message I'm trying to convey. And both ways, I hate myself. Anyone else who knows me will tell you I'm a very smart, kind, and strong person. But, I'm not that person when I'm with my husband. Right now, I need some distance from that.

I hear him telling me he would do anything for me, but I also know doing those things would cause resentment. Of course, that's the same reason I've given up on stopping the porn for all of these years and the same reason I've continued to have weekly sex with him despite not wanting to.
He yelled at me the other night that he thought I wanted him to go jump of a bridge. I'm crushed to know he thinks I want him to hurt. I've dedicated myself to being the backbone needed to allow his career to get where it is today and I'll be damned if I'm going to be the one to hurt it. He is on the brink of something truly amazing at work, he owns a gorgeous home, has three amazing kids, has his health, and good friends. Does he think that was all just good luck? He has admitted to me so many times that he has everything he could ever want to be happy except for more sex. I don't think he truly appreciates all I have done to make sure he was successful.
I on the other hand have gone 15 years being pregnant, caring for babies, moving every 1-2 years all over the country for his job and never close to any of my family, dealing with severe arthritis, migraines, constant cancer scares, hormonal hell, physical limitations, depression, and abuse from my mother in law. And I feel awful that this happy man has had to endure my pain and suffering. I've always felt awful that I've been in too much pain or too tired to meet his SF needs. Why does everyone else see me as this amazingly strong person who has overcome some truly rotten deals and my husband sees me as this broken sex toy that he needs to fix? I just had the worst year of my life and still succeeded in creating an incredible photography business. Even I never dreamed I'd be this successful so soon. I'm admired and adored by so many people, but feel judged by my husband and I feel like I just drag him down.

Okay, that's all the toddler will let me type this morning. I hope you guys realize it takes huge blocks of time to spit out these thoughts lol. I've got a very demanding and noisy boss!

"You are both just so angry that this board can't seem to do anything without being insulted in return."
FWIW, that angry comment from me is out of context.

Smile

SAD, by not doing those things, you hurt your marriage terribly with your resentment. His resentment is only there until a suitable alternative is found. Yours is there forever. He should not be doing anything that makes you unhappy and especially now when your marriage has reached a crisis state. All he is doing by continuing these behaviors [porn and going to the gym] is fanning the flames of your resentment. That is poison to your marriage and you won't soon forget it. His "resentment" however, ends the second you find suitable alternatives.

Are you familiar with Type A and Type B resentment?

from Effective Marriage Counseling pg 112-113

What about Resentment?
One of the most common objections to to the POJA is that it creates resentment when it is followed. I agree; it does usually create some resentment. But far more resentment is created when it is not followed. An illustration will make this important point.

George is invited to watch football with his friend Sam. He tells his wife, Sue, that he plans to accept the invitation. Sue objects.

If George goes ahead and watches the game, he's guilty of independent behavior. He is not following the POJA and Sue will be resentful. When George does something against the wishes of Sue, I call her resentment type A.

If George follows the POJA and doesn't accept Sam's invitation, then George will be resentful. When George is prevented from doing something because of Sue's objections I call this resentment type B.

Which type of resentment makes the largest love bank withdrawals: type A or type B? The answer is type A, and thats why the POJA helps build love bank balances. I'll explain.

When G violates the POJA, Sue has no choice but to feel the effect of the thoughtless decision [love bank withdrawals] for as long as memory persists - possibly for life whenever the event is recalled. But when George follows the POJA, the negative effect is limited in time. It only lasts as long as it takes to discover an enjoyable alternative that is acceptable to Sue.

George lets Sue know how disappointed he is with her objection but is willing to discuss other options. Sue wasn't invited to watch football and doesn't want to invite herself to Sam's house so she suggests inviting Sam and his wife to their house to watch football. George calls Sam, he and his wife accept, and the new activity puts an end to George's type B resentment.

Type A resentment can last forever, but type B resentment stops the moment a mutually enjoyable alternative is discovered. Those with poor negotiating skills may have trouble seeing the difference because they have not learned how to resolve conflicts. They may feel resentment about a host of issues that have been unresolved in their marriage. But after you teach a couple to negotiate successfully, unresolved issues are minimized. Then it becomes clear to them that the POJA helps build Love Bank balances by eliminating type A resentment.

I couldn't fall asleep last night and made a list of LBs.

1. Selfish Demands
2. Disrespectful Judgments
3. Annoying Habits
4. Angry Outbursts
5. Independent Behavior
6. Dishonesty

Selfish Demands: I find sex to be a selfish demand in our relationship. I do not feel like sex has been about me since the infatuation stage. We have lacked an emotional connection during sex since those very early days. That he can get emotional relief from sex without me feeling an emotional connection adds insult to injury. Given that sex has been the main theme surrounding our mutual unhappiness, anything and everything regarding sex completely deflates and deadens me.

DJs: I blame his mom for her incessant DJs with regards to my parenting. I think she has shaped his vision of me and caused him to focus on and exaggerate my parenting weaknesses. I also feel angry that he would critique my parenting when 1) his parenting style has pushed me more to the other extreme, 2) I spend a lot more time with the kids and he has always gotten to be the good guy who comes home from work in a good mood and has the energy and patience for them (plus he doesn't see what a kickass mom I am most of the day), and 3) when I have backed off and let him deal with the kids, I've noticed much of the same exhausted, frustrated, short-tempered parenting in him that he critiques me for. I resent him for finding ways to blame me for his angry outbursts toward the kids. I've never blamed him for my behaviors despite feeling like I had to be the bad cop. I always feel awful after I lose my cool and beat myself up. I'm tired of being labeled as a bad mom, but I'm also realizing that I have a lot of annoying habits with regards to my parenting that I need to and will work on.
Another big LB in the DJ category is when he presumes to know what I'm thinking and assumes I'm thinking the worst of him. I know I've done that to him plenty, so he should know how badly that feels. The stinger there is that I've been completely open and honest and feel like I've clearly told him what I'm thinking, so to see those words being replaced makes me think he isn't listening to me. I'll take some of the blame for that since I talk way too much. Of course, I also find myself talking in circles because I don't think I'm being heard. I think he'd admit that he is terrible at expressing any emotions to me and feel I don't have much of a choice than to try to read his mind.

Habits: I married an ogre. With a negative love bank, all of the little things that I just learned to live with in an effort to pick my battles seem huge.

AOs: These are rare enough that I don't consider them a big problem. I'm the bigger offender here and am willing to excuse his outbursts. I think his control is stellar, but he needs to find a way to express his pent up resentment before he explodes.

Independence: The porn has always rubbed me the wrong way as a form of independent behavior, but has seemed the lesser of two evils given how high is need for SF is. I've never felt like I could satisfy him. The more I gave, the more he wanted (except while TTC). The bigger issue with porn IMO is the way it has shaped his view of sex.
His gym routine better fit this category. I've always felt jealous that he gets that time to take care of himself while my exercise routine has almost entirely consisted of chasing toddlers around. The time we spent together working out back in Santa Barbara was some of my favorite UA with him. I've missed that for over a decade and it hurts me that he still has a regular routine without me. This past year has been extra hard since I have been in too much pain to get exercise and have lost what little release I got from physical activity. That's not his fault, but it makes it more painful to hear about his exercise routine. I don't want him to give this up. I think it is an important part of his life and am willing to deal with that being unfair. I just wish he realized how it makes me feel when he talks to me about it.

Dishonesty: I don't think this has been an issue since a year into our relationship when he slept with two other girls. I found out because I was diagnosed with HPV and asked if he'd been with someone else. I don't think he has ever been able to keep a secret from me. I knew he had cheated the second time just by looking in his eyes. While he struggles desperately to recognize and express his emotions, I can see them plain as day and I can tell when he is holding something back. Now I can see him holding quite a bit of negative emotions back in an attempt to engage me and draw me back into the relationship. Knowing how much anger and frustration is bubbling under the surface only makes it harder to be close to him. I'd rather him admit it, accept it, and address it.

**edit**

**EDIT**

Moderator's note: Help this poster with MB principles or refrain from posting.

Are you a photographer?

FWIW, it's not dishonest for an angry person to knock it off. I was the angriest person on the planet when I was trying to railroad my husband into accepting my superior perspective. When I came here for help tackling the problems, the forum members a) told me to snoop for an affair and b) knock off the anger immediately.

I laughed in their faces but when it turned out they were right about a) I did what they said about b).

I found out about my husbands cheating without a single AO, but I was very honest throughout! Calm and honest.

There's nothing with more power than a calm person who knows they can't control others. Just themselves. Anger is all talk. Calm is all about action.

These days I am much calmer and more capable. Anger is not something that has to be brought out but eliminated. It was always just as upsetting for me to put myself through that futile anger.

It also doesnt matter if he is 'trying' not to be angry - he needs to succeed. Anger doesn't need to be directed AT anyone. If it is exhibited then it is a bomb affecting everyone in the vicinity including himself.

Some very helpful complaints in the lovebuster list!