This is a great forum, glad I found it. I am really in need of some advice.

I am 34 and my wife is 33. We have a 25 year history as we were neighbors growing up but lived in different towns. We become involved about 16 years ago and were together for 3 years, before being on and off again for several years through college, then off for a few years and then finally back together 6 years ago. We have lived together for 4 years and been married for 2.

About a month ago, I come back to bed in the morning after brushing my teeth and I go to give her a kiss. She shakes her head and says she is not happy. I have been through this before with her so I knew it was serious. Says we feel too much like roommates and she is sad. She says that the chemistry just is not there. I agree we have this one problem and we should have addressed it a while ago. But I feel like this is an easily solvable problem and we can work on it. I wanted to talk about it. She says that it is not something that needs to be talked about, you either have it or you don�t. Needless to say, she found a place to live within a few days and moved out about a week ago. I have not spoken to her except for a few texts message that went unanswered since, mainly because I have been in this situation before with her and whenever I do reach out, I end up getting hurt.

Everything else in our relationship is great. We literally did everything together. I know how important family is to her, so I always make extra time to hang out with our nieces, her sister and her parents. I just do not know what to do here. I desperately want this to work. All I want is to have a family with her. I feel like this could work with effort. But, at the same time, if she is not interested in putting in that effort then it will never work. The fact that she just left makes me think that she did not take the vows of marriage seriously. I feel like a lame a boyfriend. This is how she usually treats them.

So I here I am. I want so bad to fight for this, but I am tired and do not think it will do much except make me feel even more terrible. She always gets to decide when things and when they end. What do you all suggest? Any thoughts? All the reading material in the world will not do me much good if she is not interested in reading it. My thought right now is to just let it be and let her go.

What were her complaints? Have you snooped to see if there is someone else?

I recommend you read "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders". It will help you understand the dynamics of your relationship. Saying that "you either have it or you don't" is a freeloader philosophy. Clearly, your wife is a renter, and possibly a freeloader. This book will help you understand these states of a relationship and what has to be done to progress to being buyers.

Pinnacle, I'm sorry but this has affair stamped all over it. A wife feeling a lack of romance would have jumped at your offer to work on it. She is thinking of someone specific when she says the chemistry is sometimes 'just there'. If her last experience of love was you, she would be mooning for it and wanting it back. But when we fall in love with someone new, we don't remember feeling love for anyone else.

The roommate/sibling/chemistry/"I love you but not in love with you" conversation is always an affair. Dr Harley says it means a new point of comparison.

Snoop for it, expose it and you could well get her back. Ultimately it's a relationship she's ashamed of and it won't survive the light of day.

Thanks for the responses.

Her only complaint was the lack of chemistry and feeling too much like roommates. Which I agree, things were getting a little stale, but I thought it definitely could be worked on. She says I am the perfect husband but obviously not. Besides that not one other issue in our relationship.

I will look at the "Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders" book.

Obviously, the thought of someone else is in my mind. It would tie up all the unanswered questions nicely. I doubt it could have been happening for very long, though now that she has moved out it might be in full effect. I noticed subtle changes in her behavior about a month prior to all this, real little things. I am not sure how much snooping I can.

That exposure thing seems so extreme. I guess I will have to read more about it. I just feel like the concept of marriage is so tainted for me now. If this can happen with someone I have known for 25 years, how could I ever trust anyone. ugh

She does seem like a renter even looking at her past relationships... including ones with me

The Letter "Can one spouse save a marriage (part 2)?" seems to be a similar situation except I have not confirmed another man. I'll be on this site a lot I can see.

I think you need to find out if she is having an affair.
Renters usually don't abandon the marriage until something better comes along, or the relationship is more of a hassle than the benefits realized.

Trustworthiness doesn't really come into it. Everybody is wired for an affair and people who consider themselves intrinsically trustworthy enough to bond with members of the opposite sex can fall to it.

If she has male friends she confides in or does fun activities with its possible. Affairs aren't instant or looked for usually. It would be someone she interacts with a lot. Like online friend or co-worker.

Thanks for the responses... this is helpful for me mentally.

Like I mentioned, we have a 25 year history. I know how she acts in relationships pretty well. She moves on very fast from one to another, but does not typically do anything when in one. For example, before our relationship started this time, she called me a few days before she moved out of her then boy friends apartment. Things started immediately from there but after their relationship had officially ended. So, in our case, of course it is different because we are married. BUT... she is not treating me like a husband, she is treating me like a boy friend. Plan and simple. So, if that is true, and she called things off and moved out, then I think in her mind now she is free to do what she wants. So we are still married and it would be an affair, but I do not think she would feel the same stigma as she would if it was under the radar. In fact, I do not expect her to keep it under the radar for that long even.

With that being said, I am still not sure if she has someone else. We already live far away from her work and she moved even farther away. So I think someone from work is unlikely. But then again why would you move even further away from work, that makes no sense. I do have a suspicion on who it might be. But how exactly can I find out if she is having one when she is not living here? Next time I talk to her, I can press her and get her to admit it if it is true I think. Then what would I do? But if she considers everything over, would it even matter? Freaking confusing.

I have not talked to her in 8 days... is that the correct move? I do that because it always makes me feel worse when I talk to her based on past experience and she has not reached out too me. I left flowers for her the day she moved out, feel like a complete sap for doing that.

Thanks again

Sir,

I think you need to find out if she is having an affair

No you don't confront her. Nor ignore her. Touch base daily with her even though she is hostile. Just be affectionate and thick skinned.

Your first priority is to find and expose the affair. A PI would find you the information in two days - probably quicker due to the separation. Can you access her email? Do not under any circumstances ask if she is having an affair or confront her with any evidence. An affair is an addiction and she would do anything to protect it.



This describes every wayward wife since time began. She doesn't think it's wrong. However you, and a good many exposure targets hopefully, do and will not let that lie.

We all have to upgrade from renter to buyer to be happy. This is her opportunity. She will either take it or not.



People usually do and it is them. Was for me.

The problem is that we aren't really talking about a renter here. As described, this lady is a freeloader. That is why she acts like they are still dating. To a freeloader, having an affair is no big deal. Such a person is impossible to partner with in marriage. She needs to advance to a buyer for this marriage to work, but she is going to have to become a renter first. That is going to be a lot harder to do.

She may not take this opportunity, but exposure is still required for personal recovery anyway.

He can decide on whether the marriage is worthwhile after the first steps.

Dr H doesn't typically advise on recovery of young marriages with no kids. However the BS finds it enormously difficult to decide without any information about the affair or their support network. So snooping and exposure is still needed.

Thanks once again.

I will do what I can to get to the bottom on whether she is having an affair or not. I understand the importance of it.

In terms of contacting her daily, how should I do that? phone/txt/email? This is really hard thing for me to do. It makes me feel like crap once I get done talking to her, if a text goes unreturned or if a heart felt email goes unanswered. When I left a note and the flowers the day she moved out, and came home to nothing, it was terrible.

Even though our marriage is still young, our history is long and I think we really could have something special if she would just work on it with me.

If she does not realize that she is a free loader or renter, what do I do about that? Anything? You say "she may not take this opportunity", but she does not even know it is an opportunity right? How does she see all of this when she is not looking for it? Know what I mean?

How do I know when it is time to give up? This whole thing is only about a month old.

By the way I did order both the books suggested in this thread. If nothing else, this will help me in the future, I am sure of it.

Is there a list of the abbreviations used here? What is BS?

BS is betrayed spouse. Go to forums, then click on notable posts for the full acronyms list.



Talking to her about it, trying to lecture or teach her would be about the worst thing you can do, affair or no affair. It's called a disrespectful judgement or DJ in MB speak to get all lecturey and psychoanalytical. The best thing is to model what buyer behaviour looks like and make clear your requirements for the marriage and address what is/isn't motivating your spouse.

In this case it's likely an affair is motivating your spouse and exposure is about as buyer-y as it gets for an chance to model behaviour. It's protective, caring, runs off the other guy and offering recovery makes you look as committed as it gets. While ruining the future chances of the other relationship becoming legitimate.


If the A ends due to exposure she may (or may not) wish to come home but she would have to agree to a number of conditions for marital recovery. If she were to agree to these she'd be agreeing to be a buyer. That's the opportunity I was referring to. She may agree, she may not.

Some men are advised to woo a reluctant wife while continually negotiating these conditions. It can take up to two years and is hard work for a two year marriage though.

You have very little chance of getting her to agree without exposing first. You'll need people's support anyway if you discover an affair.



I would really just suggest finding out what's going on before you make any decisions or time scales. Dr H has known men who fought against an affair for two years and succeeded. As someone pretty young with no kids my timescale was six months and I decided not to recover. It's personal. Her reaction to exposure may affect your decision too.

Treat it like throwing pebbles into water. They stack up without response required.

Youre not under any obligation to woo her, but if you want recovery, it would improve your chances a good deal. If she's in an A, she will be very unresponsive and you should just expect that. There's no need to feel like a sucker for wooing your own wife and not giving up on the commitment straight away.

I wouldn't necessarily advise you to woo and Plan A her, it is a young marriage and she's not got the best relationship resume, but definitely snoop and expose, if only for your own sake.

Read about plan A and b here:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

Here.
Acronyms and Abbreviations

jeessh... thanks. This does not sound promising. Even though it is only a 2 year marriage, it feels much longer than that... at least to me. 25 year history, 6 year relationship, I feel like that time should count for something too.

Even though her relationship resume is not the best, I desperately want this to work. I can try to woo my wife back. No responses are a given, I have been through this before. Not giving up on that commitment is exactly what I am talking about, wish she felt the same way. So what do I do to woo her back... calls, email, texts? Does it matter, is there one that I should not do? I can definitely do this though it is very hard. My friends encourage me not to talk to her but they do not about this site either.

Thanks for the note on teaching/ lecturing her about this. It is natural for me to want to do that, but I knew that was not the right thing to do. The mind is weird animal. I'll read about plan A and plan B.

The other thing I have been thinking about is what wrong. Obviously I did something wrong and was not providing enough emotional support. I looked at the emotional needs note. I think most of these are actually pretty solid for us. The ones were I see lacking looking at it from her perspective are probably conversation (not very good at it), sexual fulfillment (embarrassingly I am not good at that either), and probably affection on my end. I think these are fixable though.

So frustrating to have someone just give up on things. ugh

I very much agree with MrEureka that she is a freeloader. All of the pursuit in the world will not change her philosophy of marriage, which is to go where the spirit moves her. Even if you won her back again, she would be gone again when she sees something better. In the time you spend winning her back [which I predict will be futile] you could be pursuing a relationship with a woman who would love you and make you happy. You can't have that with this woman. You have known her for long enough to understand this.

I think it is a waste of your time to try and pursue her because of this and I think it is a bad idea to encourage you in that respect. I am sorry to be so negative, but you seem like a nice guy and I hate to see you wasting your time.