I�m looking for posts/fourms/advice on what to do when the essential root of the problem is what I�m concluding is a double standard of epic proportions. I�m sure I'm not the first to run into this.

The basic concern is boiled down to something like this...it�s a lack of "want to" thing for her�I�m more concerned about improving things she rates me as a 9 (on scale of 10) to work on them to get to a 10 than she is concerned about things she rates herself as a 3. She has concluded that she doesn�t know why she doesn�t want to �love me� like she used to, or work on anything and doesn�t know what I can do to help her, or motivate her to �want to� work on things etc. She expects me to be almost perfect or in the top 10% on all her needs which I mostly am by her own admission and yet her standard for herself is that even if she is in the bottom 30% that�s okay.

My wife of 22 years has been increasingly negative and disrespectful over the past 7-10 years and I�ve tried 100 ways to look first in the mirror to make sure I was not doing things �wrong� that were causing the decreased love and respect from her�and been patient and worked for almost a decade but she keeps getting worse and worse a little at a time�but whenever I want to talk about it, or ask what I can do to help her or myself to make sure we are aligned and on the same page and making our marriage important so we are not just roommates with 4 kids she doesn�t want to talk, think, work, etc.on it at all. Finally it boiled over recently and I had her commit to a weekend get-away, and asked her kindly to rate the 5 needs for both of us�how is she receiving her needs met in her opinion�how is she meeting mine on a scale of 1-10.

She scored herself MUCH lower than she scored me across the board. This is exactly what I FEEL week in and out for years, but now at least I know she is not self-deceiving about the imbalance. She scored me as 9�s in each category of meeting her needs except comfortable lifestyle she scored me a 5. I said, �wow, your lowest score for me is a 5, but your highest score for yourself meeting my needs is a 5 in three categories and a 3 in a two of the HIS needs categories�my low score is your high score�what can I do to help with that getting better, both in terms of improving my 5 to a 10 but also my 9�s to 10�s???!!� She had some advice for me�but asked for no suggestions on what she could do to improve�a few days later after I had been doing all the things she asked (they were all very easy, trivial type things like opening the car door for her so easy to implement right away) I asked if she had any thoughts on what she might do to work on any area she felt she wanted or needed to work on, she said she really had not thought about it�which says to me �I don�t care� or �I don�t want to� which all translate to me �I don�t love you� where love in my opinion is a choice/decision, not an emotional romantic feeling.

A dream of hers was to be a stay at home mom, which she has done since we had our first child 20 years ago, she thought my income of $120,000, our 5 bedroom house, our 4 cars and a boat, our nice vacations, etc. was below average and hence the 5 rating on me providing her a comfortable lifestyle, so we researched together what more I could do to provide a more comfortable lifestyle�turns out we make (I make, but consider it a team effort so it�s really both our money) more income as a single wage earner than 97% of wage earners in the US today and more than 83% of dual income households. So I say, �what more can I do?� and she says, "I don�t know." Remember, this isn�t about not spending enough time at home, with her, with the kids etc. because she agrees I�m a 9 in that category. So the double standard is: She rates me low, but admidts that I�m in the top 3% and likely cannot do anything better than that without sacrificing other higher values like time with family etc and risk work burnout so it�s impossible to meet her need WHILE she readily admits that she is not in the top 50% of any of my needs and sees or knows plenty of things she could do to improve that (she used to do most all of it) and doesn�t �want to� put in that effort and when we talk that out her response is �I don�t know why I don�t want to, I just don�t.� That does bother her to say, she cries, but apparently not enough to actually want to do anything about it.

Are there any posts you can refer me to where the wife fully acknowledges that her needs are being met with a husband that would likely be considered the �dream husband� by most any other wife but also acknowledges that for years she is in the bottom 50% or 30% in terms of being a great wife based on her husbands needs and her only answer is �I really don�t want to talk about it and I don�t know why I don�t want to talk or work on it, but I just don�t� to which my conclusion is starting to become�well �if you don�t choose to love me on purpose so that it becomes your emotion and action, then it won�t just happen I guess and then again, why would you be motivated to �work� on anything because work takes effort and commitment and critique of yourself so why put yourself through that when you have everything in your life being met for needs and almost every dream or want met as well, what�s the incentive for you to work on anything I guess?� I don�t want to try on purpose to not meet her needs, wants, dreams, that�s counter to my commitment to choose to love her even if she doesn�t make that choice back to me�but maybe it would cause her to see how unfair and hurt and helpless I feel in this unbalanced and unfair situation.

Thesis: In a situation where one spouse doesn't "want to" and feels terribly about that but doesn't "want to" figure out, talk about, work on WHY she doesn't "want to" then it's a never-ending circular argument. "Let's talk about why you don't want to...I don't want to talk...why not...I don't know...how can we figure out what to do about "not knowing" if we don't work on it...I don't know, I don't want to and I don't know why...cries and stops talking."

I�m sure I�m not the only spouse in the world facing such an acknowledged double standard�so any place you can point me for more research and to help me figure out what to work on or how to re-approach it all again would help. She does feel bad, sat on the bed crying because she knows she used to want to do all the stuff in the 5 needs and then some, she does know HOW to do that stuff so it's not a skills/abilities/knowledge deficit she just can�t figure out why she doesn�t want to now because it�s nothing I�m doing wrong. The fact it bothers her to tears and she finally is willing to hear me out and to try to figure out her �want to� as we talked about it crying last night, that is a good sign�but aside from being infinitely patient (what I�ve been doing for 10 years that�s caused it to continue to get worse apparently) I am looking for more productive approaches. Everything I find suggests the wife has some legit beefs with the H causing her to withdraw emotionally or to disconnect�but that�s not the case here by her own admission�she admits her concerns are so petty compared to about every other wife she knows and from what she sees of other men/husbands�so I need the more unvarnished truth side where it�s not the guy�s fault at all, it�s a double standard that she knows she has and can�t figure out why herself she feels that way.

Thanks! If this post is rehashed from other similar posts, please direct me in that direction...I'm willing to do anything to improve and take care of the Love of my life, my soulmate, my once and only!

Hello there! welcome to Marriage Builders. A few questions: how many hours did you spend ALONE with her last week out on dates?

When was the last time you went out on a date and what did you do?

What does she say are her top 5 emotional needs?

I spend as much time alone with her as she will let me. We have a weekly date night every week for 2-3 hours before we have to go get the kids...I join her on the sofa to watch her shows or talk (she rated me a 15 on a scale of 1-10 for meeting her conversation need) etc. I will spend as much time as she will let me doing whatever she wants to do each week. I probably spend 10 hours a week with her alone, and would spend more if she wanted/made time for it but with 4 kids she prioritizes us getting them everywhere etc and doesn't have much time left to spend with me...it's a priorities thing and I get it, we are a busy family by choice.

She doesn't want to talk much about her emotional needs but says the needs identified in His Needs Her Needs all would be what she needs and wants. I chase her, tell her she's sexy, compliment her all the time, give her all types of affection, conversation, etc. do chores she claims that I'm going above and beyond etc. etc. etc. Her top need not being met is apparently comfortable lifestyle and she doesn't know what more I could do to make her more comfortable since in the midwestour lifestyle is in the top 3% income wise, we have no debt etc but she just wants to have more I guess to feel "comfortable" and totally admits that there likely isn't much more I can do than be in the top 3% in the country.

Thoughts?

Spending as much time together as she will let you will not cut it. Your wife is not in love with you because you do not spend enough time meeting each other's emotional needs. As long as she is not in love, her emotions will fight the idea of putting in more time.

You should be spending 15 hours a week when you are in love (20 hours when you are not) meeting each other's emotional needs with no distractions. It won't seem natural, but that is what it takes. The time has to be the best time of the week. You need to make it fun.

You will know you are on the way back when you both start thinking that 15 hours isn't enough.

I DO think 15 hours is not enough, I would like to spend, try to spend 25 hours a week with her alone...she doesn't want to. I can't force her or make her do it, that would be pressure that she would then (legitimate) claim I'm a bad husband for pressuring her into stressville trying to get more time with her etc. We do have fun in our time togeher, in fact it's the #1 reason she says she doesn't want to spend time talking about the tough stuff when I try to broach the topic..."This is killing my fun, I want us to just have fun!" is what she says.

How do I make her WANT TO spend the 15 or 20 or 25 hours a week together, I'd love to do that with her!!! How do I meet her emotional needs when she says I already am, or won't identify anything she wants/needs me to work on?

Thoughts?

You make her want to do it by making her fall in love with you. She WILL fall in love with you if you spend enough undivided attention time together. Yes, it is circular, but that is the way it is. So, you will have to get her to put in time that she doesn't really want to do. You do that by making the time really great for her. Although it is unsustainable in the long run, you may have to compromise your best interest and pick stuff that you are not crazy about but are especially fun for her for awhile to bootstrap this thing. Do things that are really fun for her, then move to things that are equally fun for both of you as she starts to buy in.

I can see what the problem is. You don't have enough undivided attention time to sustain the love in a marriage. One date a week, for 2-3 hours is essentially all you have. You can't effectively meet her need for conversation if you are only out together for 1 - 2 hour date a week. Nor can you meet her needs sitting on the couch or doing something in your home. That is NOT undivided attention time.

Your wife CAN fall back in love with you if you could get her to agree to start going on at least 4 - 4 hour dates a week.

You should focus on the INTIMATE emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment.


This has nothing to do with the love she feels for you because it is not an intimate emotional need. Women don't fall in love over financial support. I would focus entirely on the intimate EN's and getting 20+ hours of UA time per week.

Would she agree to this exercise if she knew it would cause her to fall in love again?

The way this should be managed is you both sit down together on a Sunday afternoon and schedule out your dates using this worksheet. here

And here is the article describing this step: Policy of Undivided Attention

I would wager your wife knows she has fallen out of love and feels terribly guilty about it. She is lost and confused because she has no idea how to fix this. This plan WILL fix the problem.

Another reason she is not in love with you is that you disrespectfully judge her. It is a lovebuster, and will quickly drain her lovebank. It doesn't matter if you meet her emotional needs perfectly, when you lovebust her, you undo everything.

In addition to inviting her out on dates to get the 15 hours, I suggest you read the book "Lovebusters" and start eliminating disrespectful judgements.

It is becuase she has fallen out of love.


yuck! Who wants to "talk about tough stuff???" What a downer!!! When you are with her you should be pleasant and fun. If you invited ME out on a date to "talk about tough stuff" I would run too!!

Ask her if she will try this experiment. She will fall back in love and once that happens she will not allow anything to come before your dates.

Simple truth: THIS PROGRAM DOES NOT WORK WITHOUT THIS STEP. If you don't get this one right, everything else is a waste of your time. When Harley was in private practice he told couples to find another doctor if they wouldn't commit to this step.

Agree with Prisca, but wanted to add that you DON'T meet her emotional needs perfectly. You might do a good job in some areas but since you don't get enough ALONE time together out of the house, it is ineffective and worthless. The PROOF is the fact that she is not in love.

Let me clarify, I don't invite her out on dates to talk about the tough stuff, in fact all the dates we've gone on for the past several years the focus has always been on fun and enjoying it and that has happened on our dates and in all of our one-on-one time whether we are going out on walks or watching a show or movie she wants to see it is all primarily focused on what she wants to do and has fun doing and it is fun and we have tons of fun! She does not feel that her emotional needs are not being met or that she needs more time, and I've tried to ask her for ways that we could spend more time and focus on her needs more and then she feels like I'm stressing her out with that request. so now what I'm getting is that I should stress her out Harder by requesting or demanding that we spend more time and continue to pressure her to tell me what her emotional needs are or how I can meet them when she has already told me over and over that I'm meeting her needs on a scale of ten somewhere between a 9 and 15. I'm confused?

Plan dates for things she loves, and invite her out on them. Don't demand. Invite! And don't quit just because she turns you down. Keep inviting.

That is great!!


That is because she doesn't understand what her emotional needs ARE and how they should met effectively. As such, she has checked out and doesn't see any hope in this exercise. When you push her, it just makes her feel worse because she sees no point in it. You keep asking her this stuff and she doesn't really KNOW.

All you need to do is sell her on this program and get her commitment to try this program. If you can get her commitment to do this, you can turn it around. But what you have been doing is NOT EFFECTIVE.

You demonstrate exactly WHY this program cannot be cherry picked. If you do just a little here and a little there, the result is a big fat nothing and the reluctant spouse concludes the program is worthless. The problem here is corner cutting.

Most of the time, women think that you are meeting their needs when they don't realize that not only do you need to meet needs but without the dates of 15 to more hours a week- it isn't enough to stay in love.
So they are a little hopeless. They are sitting there going, wow, he meets my needs and I am still not in love with them. Its hopeless- no point in trying to do better cause he is already doing what he can.

BUT- the point is to keep requesting more UA time as she doesn't know that it is the very essence of getting the top 4 intimate needs mostly out of the house on the dates every week that makes the love and the wow come back.

Women typically won't try to really help out on their love busters until they are in love so the biggest key here IS the UA time to help turn this imbalance around.

Ignore what she is saying on how much you meet her needs. Staying and being in love for a women really comes down to how he meets her needs on dates for 15 hours or more a week.

I can certainly try that again but I think it's pretty predictable that she's going to say "I don't need more time, I don't know what more I need for you to meet my emotional needs, I've already told you that and I don't really want to talk about it, let's just have fun and avoid this stress... why are you bringing this up again, we've talked about it twice in the past 5 years and I told you I don't know what more you could do and I don't have any unmet needs or wants. Stop badgering me about it!

Did you read our posts?

We didn't tell you anything like that. Nothing close to it. Can you please read our posts?

What I read was that I should keep asking, which I've been doing, keep inviting, which I've been doing, keep requesting, which I've been doing, for about the past seven years for another some unexplained amount of time and that magically somehow it will start to work better than it has already. I guess I need more definition on how to do what I've already been doing for about the past 7 years in terms of trying to get her to spend more time doing what she wants to do with us together? I do totally agree that she probably doesn't even really know what her emotional needs are and therefore it's a false positive when she says they're being met, but she doesn't seem to want to examine that or spend time looking into it or working on it, I can't really make her.

I would try a new approach with her. Instead of nagging her for more time, sell her on idea of creating a romantic, passionate marriage. Women who are in love don't have be nagged and cajoled into going out on dates. Rather, they resent anything that interferes with it.

Being in love in a passionate, romantic marriage is a quality of life game changer. It would change her life in a major way. But you need to be able to articulate this in a way that is more than: "I want to spend more time with you" when you know she has checked out. You have to SELL this to her.

I would start with the article I posted above along with the worksheet. Another great aide would be the book Fall in Love, Stay in Love. This article here also does a good job of explaining how effectively meeting needs makes a difference: http://www.marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi8120_sex.html

So STOP talking to her about need meeting and focus on actually getting her out on dates to meet the INTIMATE EMOTIONAL NEEDS. Stop talking and start doing.

If you can't persuade her, then you can email Dr Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com, include your phone # and Dr Harley and Joyce can help you persuade your wife. [it is free and they will even send you a free book]

You have literally planned 20 some odd hours of UA outside the house doing things she loves (without any input from her), and have invited her to join you without ANY pressure or lovebusters whatsoever, and have had no relationship talk for 7 years? Weekly? Consistently?

Have you read Lovebusters?