Hello. Ive been following this site for awhile, and think the advice here is outstanding. I know I don�t deserve help, but I am desperately lost. Sorry for this long post
My wife (55F)and I (57M) have been married for 30 years next year. We have three beautiful daughters � 25,23 and 20. We met when I transferred to another city and were introduced through friends, and we were in the same profession. There was no lightning bolt or love at first sight. We were just comfortable with each other, and both of us anxious to settle down into the next phase of our lives I think. We dated for a year, lived together a year, and married. We were later in life for starting marriage � I was 29 and she was 27. We had our first daughter 2 years later, and my wife became a stay at home mom with my full support. That�s how I grew up, and that�s what I wanted for my children. Of course, over the next 25 years my career has been extremely busy with extensive travel.
I was transferred in 1999. It was a smooth move. The kids were so young they adapted easily. Our life was comfortable and happy. My wife and I rarely argued, it was almost like a co-parenting relationship. I never realized it until now, but I wouldn�t really confide in her. I always felt the kids, and her other interests took priority over me. I was always # 4 or 5 on her attention list. We had a few large blow ups over this but we always just slid back into the same place. I was transferred again in 2008. That was horrible � one daughter going into grade 12, the next into grade 10, etc. I was transferred again in 2003, but this time I had learned my lesson. My 2 older daughters were away at university then, but the youngest was only in grade 11. So I moved alone and got an apartment, letting my wife and daughter stay behind for 18 months until she finished grade 12.
During my travel during this living apart time, I met a woman (almost 4 years ago), a person in the firm I work for � there was an instant connection. She was married, but her marriage was ending. Of course by the fall we had started a full blown relationship. It was like I really mattered to her, she was interested in what was happening in my life. It lasted about 2015, when my wife discovered it. We ended the affair and I agreed to reconciliation.
Another sideline to the story. In 2011 I had my prostate removed for cancer. Was told it was an aggressive cancer and would likely recur. In 2014 it did � a month after I ended the affair. I went through a lot of tests in different cities � the most significant being in June 2016 in Chicago (another long story related to my firms health care). When she found out from someone what was happening, the AP contacted me and insisited I should not be alone. It didn�t matter if we were together or not, she wanted to be with me during the tests. I let her back into my life, and I was so happy and grateful I did.
That was in June 2016. I have just finished daily radiation treatments for the past few months. I wait three months now to see if that has knocked it back, or whether I go to chemo. I took early retirement in Feb during treatments. Sucks. I found myself thinking constantly about the AP, and going somewhere to be with her. (With my medication and treatment, there is really no sex for me in 2017). I love my wife but I cannot continue this. I need to be honest and deal with this.
Do I blow up a 30 year marriage with a woman I may �love but am not in love with� (OMG I finally get what that clich� means). I cant bear the thought of continuing my comfortable but almost loveless wife. It has been eating me up. I secretly made an appointment with a marriage counsellor and went by myself. Twice now. She thinks we really never had the emotional love most couples experience. A reconciliation is a ton of work for a couple to get back to that place of love. She makes the point that it almost doesn�t make sense if that kind of love didn�t exist in the relationship to begin with.
Am I a 57 year old fool thinking love is something that I don�t have with my wife?

Hi DD, welcome to Marriage Builders. You are correct that you don't have love with your wife. Romantic love is impossible when you neglect and abuse a marriage like you have. But the only fool here is the "marriage counselor" who has no earthly idea how romantic love is created and sustained. Most marriage counselors are destructive to marriages because they don't understand the dynamics of romantic love. This is why they have a 85% failure rate and a higher divorce rate than the general population.

That being said, the ethical thing to do is bring your wife here today and show her this thread. She has a right to know the truth about her own life and make decisions accordingly. It is cruel and manipulative to lie to her about her own life. Your wife is not your pet, she is a grown adult who is entitled to make her own decisions. You have no right to deny her that right. You are the last person who is qualified to make those decisions for her.


You already did this. Lying to your wife about what you are doing to her does not make it any less blown. Manipulating her into staying married to you is not a virtue, it is simply doubling down on the crime. You are doing her no favors..

Do the right thing today. Send her this link now and invite her to this thread so we can help her.

Tell your wife about your affair, and ask her what she would like to do, now that she knows about it. The chances are that she would jump at the opportunity to be free from a cruel, 57-year-old fool who isn't worthy of her, and freed from the shackle of her loveless marriage. At the moment, she is being manipulated into being with someone who is cruelly using her. She doesn't deserve that. She has the right to know the truth about her own life, and to find someone who will love her the way she wants to be loved. Do not deny her that right. Tell her about the affair and give her the chance to find happiness.

Translation: the "marriage counselor" has no earthly idea how to do it. We do it all the time here and it can happen in a matter of months. The "MC" doesn't understand the dynamics of an affair so she doesn't know that your comment about never having emotional love is a CLASSIC TRAIT of a wayward spouse who is fogged out on on affair. I have read that comment a million times on this forum over the past 16 years.

An affair is an addiction much like heroin so when the WS is high on heroin, sober life pales in comparison. With an affair, you are making a comparison to an unsustainable fantasy. The comparison is between a fantasy and a complete and utterly neglected marriage. It is like comparing The Taj Mahal to a falling down shanty.

Falling in love does not happen by fairy dust magic. It happens by design. If you gave your marriage the same attention you gave your affair, you would be in love with your wife.

Please tell your wife about your continued affair. Please send her here. If you have any decency left in you, you will do that. Do you?

I am planning on telling her when we are away this week. Separation is inevitable. Yes, I will refer her to this site for assistance.

Melody your comments are the core of what I am struggling with, and scare me. How do I know if i am just in a fog and not seeing things clearly?

When I asked my wife to come with to Chicago to be with me during the tests, she said taking three days would be too complicated to arrange with the two dogs. That's the typical response. A similar excuse when I had to have tests back in February 2016 in Montreal. I didn't push harder on the reasons why she wouldn't come with me. I don't know how to put that in perspective of my fog....I don't think she really loves me. Im convenient to her. I have told her that during our discussions. She agrees and says she will do better but we are always back in the same pattern.

None of it is an excuse for cheating. So I will tell her. Maybe we can both move on and be happy.

Of course she doesn't love you. How could she? You have neglected your marriage for years. That doesn't mean you should feel entitled to force your spouse to do things against her will. Guilt manipulation does not help the situation either.

You are like the home owner who never does any repairs or upkeep and when his house falls apart gripes about his dump of a house. If you are going to be a slumlord, expect to live in a slum. It's not the PERSON that is the problem but your treatment of the relationship.

I hope you are not taking her out of town to tell her, that would be horrible for her. Please tell her when she is at home.

Sorry for all the posts. .Im so guilt ridden and frustrated and angry at myself for letting this happen. This is horrible stuff, and I know I am at fault for cheating and letting her into my life.
When I started radiation treatments in Feb I was terrified. Its is such a scary thing to go through on so many levels. Instead of coming with me, my wife said I was fine, dismissed my fears, and flew to Montreal to watch my daughter play hockey (college level). My AP immediatly flew here to join me for the first radiation. I felt like I was drowning, and latched on in my fear. It was wrong, but I was desperate. Again, no excuses. Yep Im a POS. This is so confusing.

Melody - I never thought of it like that. Ohhh god. I should tell her before we go. Tonite. God I cant

But you can tell her after you've gone?

Thats the perfect answer - she doesn't love me, period. That's the end of the story. You can say it was my neglect of the marriage which I call full [censored] on. I was the one who initiated every conversation to explore what she wanted, how to make the marriage better, pay attention to her. I did all that. I now realize you only have stock responses and cant really help .

Thank you anyway.

Translation: She's an uncaring witch, and she caused this.

Translation: she's an uncaring witch, and she caused this.

Let me just explain a few things. Your lifestyle will not sustain a marriage. You can't stay in love if you live apart as you have for years. Your affair will suffer the same fate except worse because it was founded on dishonesty, selfishness and deceit. Those traits will find their way into your relationship. When the "lurve" fades, there will be nothing to sustain your marriage and you will both be looking at better options. It will crumble more intensely and much, much faster. If it ever makes it to marriage, it is statistically doomed.

It will be the biggest regret of your life because it will wreck your relationships with your kids. Do you think your kids will accept your adultery partner? Doubtful.

You don't have to believe me on this. Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders has said this many times over the years. "Affairages" are doomed to failure and he has never met a wayward spouse in 50 years of practice who didn't regret it. Listen to him discussing it here: here

But you have much better options. The ideal solution would be to be in romantic, passionate love with your wife. That does not happen by magic fairy dust, but by design. We know the design. If you and your wife want that option, we can help you.

And you don't love her. But no, it is not the PERIOD. The solution to falling out of love is to fall back in love. If the spouses are willing to make radical changes and commit to the marriage.

Did you not say this?
That is neglect. You can't sustain a marriage when you are not there. We see the result of your lifestyle on your marriage. It is very common.

Is it easier to blame your wife? Okay. That's fine, but its not the full truth. It was all your lifestyle.

Rrriigghhtttt.

Wow, ok. My travel was the cause? Rigghhtttt..

Please tell her TODAY so she is not stuck on a trip with you. She likely won't want to go, which is very understandable.

I am sorry, the cause is that she is a WITCH. Feel better now?

Will you please tell her today about your affair so she can make informed choices about her life?

Look, I realize you didn't set out to wreck your marriage and were only trying to support your family. Most of us are here because we unknowingly made mistakes. So please don't believe I think you are any worse than the rest of us.

But please listen to me when I say you are headed for the biggest mistake of your life. Your affair will not last. 95% of them never make it to marriage because they are based on deceit and selfishness. As soon as problems set in the relationship will go into a free fall. Affairs fall apart very quickly because of this. But lets say it does make it to marriage, it won't last long, but the damage you to do to your relationships with your daughters will last a lifetime. It is very doubtful that your daughters will a) have anything to do with your OW and b) will forgive you for what you did to their mother.

You are at a fork in the road and you can take a path to disaster or you can take a path to a romantic, passionate marriage with the mother of your children. The path you take will determine the last days of your life. [not withstanding your wife's decisions]

Please tell us what the real cause was of your affair.

Thank you, this is helpful.

SugarCane
I talked a lot about this with the MC, we focused on the cause. Our marriage was never one of great intimacy of feelings, and the counsellor feels that over the years, my perception is (right or wrong) my wife has shown I am not her priority and is not genuinely interested in the things that I need an emotional connection on. As a result, I stopped sharing these intimate feelings because I was afraid her response is just not genuine. We went through a number of examples. We were both missing the "emotional soft landing" that comes with the deeper kind of relationship. We have never really been in that place in our marriage. This is not news to me (and would not be to my wife) - the only serious arguments my wife and I ever had over 30 years of marriage was about my frustration with our marriage not being her priority. Apparently my wife is content with this relationship, while it conflicts in me.
When I first met the AP, there was an instant connection. We didn't start the affair until the fall, but this connection has stayed strong for 4 years.
I shared a few of the examples of my emotional rollercoaster during treatment. But it goes the other way too, for the good things that happen. The night before last, I was at a client dinner where my retirement was announced. I had a discussion with the client where they were explaining an exciting opportunity they would like me to consider. I was so excited about it. I came home (my wife was watching the hockey playoffs), and told her about it. She looked at me and said "Oh" and immediately went back to watching the hockey game. I shook my head and went upstairs. I texted the AP who was interested, asked questions, and was clearly excited for me.
So you see its not just the bad stuff she shares with me, and gives me her support on. its the good stuff too.
The MC is of the view the affair started when I was presented with an opportunity to have that emotional soft landing with another person.

Are you going to tell her about your affair TODAY, and give her the chance to decide what she wants to do with her life?

Are you going to tell her about your affair TODAY

Yes I am.

and give her the chance to decide what she wants to do with her life.

Yes, but I have concluded her life choices can no longer include me.

Not that this is either here nor there, but the MC doesn't have the slightest idea why your marriage is like this. It is obvious your wife has completely checked out and we know why. It is impossible to be in love with your lifestyle. We know your marriage is not a priority, your JOB is. Anything that comes before marriage will eventually come between you. It is ludicrous to expect you would have a "deeper" relationship when you live separate lives. But your "marriage counselor" does not understand this.

And I want to emphasize an important point, your "MC" has no earthly idea how to solve this problem. Nor does she understand the dynamics of an affair.

Divorce and adultery is epidemic in traveling careers, such as the airline industry and the military for this very reason.

Good deal!! Please send her here so we can help her.

Im not so sure about sending her here.

"the MC doesn't have the slightest idea why your marriage is like this. It is obvious your wife has completely checked out and we know why. It is impossible to be in love with your lifestyle. We know your marriage is not a priority, your JOB is. Anything that comes before marriage will eventually come between you. It is ludicrous to expect you would have a "deeper" relationship when you live separate lives. But your "marriage counselor" does not understand this. "

The sheer arrogance and narrow mindedness of this "advice" is staggering.

It is not "arrogant" to tell the truth.

OH. MY. GOD.

Are you for real???

I am ok if you believe I am arrogant, but you should know that marriage counselors have an 84% failure rate and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population.

I know why you like this marriage counselor, and it is the same reason most cheating spouses like marriage counselors: the MC has no earthly idea why they had an affair and as such, tends to validate the cheater's multitude of excuses for cheating. You find it very appealing that the ignorant MC blames your wife, because YOU blame your wife. It is like the alcoholic who blames their drinking on their job, spouse, etc, etc, etc. It is never their fault. That is a classic trait of a fogged out addict. CLASSIC.

Their advice is destructive to marriages. Most of the people here - most in happy romantic marriages today - experienced a bad marriaage counselor before they came here. That is the rule rather than the exception.

Marriage Builders was created by a psychologist who started off as a marriage counselor and discovered that marriage counselors everywhere were failing. [including himself] He felt like that it was unethical to take people's money and not help their marriage.

He quit his job and studied couples who were still in love after 20 years of marriage and created this program based on their traits. That is how he developed this program. He tested it on several couples before he went back into professional practice. As a result, he has one of the most successful marriage programs in the US.

In short, Marriage Builders is completely different from traditional marriage programs. Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist and he understands how marriages work and more importantly, he understands why people have affairs. Marriage counselors do not.

Wow - Thats so impressive. Help abounds! I guess you have all the answers, which are clearly the same for every situation.

All other counsellors who have a different view than you are obviously dead wrong.

Good luck with that.

That is an interesting opinion coming from someone who has wrecked his own marriage and came here asking for advice. You came here asking for advice, we gave it. You are free to reject it. It's all the same to us.

1. To answer your question about whether you are in a fog or not, YES you are. Affairs cause the same chemical reactions as other addictive things, EVERY person in an affair is high on the addiction to some extent and therefore in a'fog' of irrational thinking.

2. You said you had followed the forum and thought highly of the advice, but all of a sudden you are trash talking some of the most experienced compassionate posters in here. Why do you think that is? [answer: the addictive affair fog is fighting hard to defend the addiction so you can feel good about continuing it, just like if you were an alcoholic and we were having an intervention]

3. You won't send your wife here because you want to maintain control over her and the situation.

4. If your wife was such an evil witch, why did you not divorce her instead of have an affair? Nobody would fault you for seeking divorce from a bad marriage.

One point of clarification is necessary. At no time did I refer to my wife as an evil witch. For the record, that was an unprofessional and unfortunate characterization from Marriage Builders. I do not think of her that way at all.

I think I have gotten all the benefit to be had from this site.

Thank you everyone.

Why don't you send your wife here? I bet we would be of benefit to her!

I've been here since 2010, and so far the other counseling views have a 100% failure rate.

Rather, you try to demonize her and blame her for your poor choices, a sentiment that was, unfortunately, validated by a "marriage counselor." That is very...unfortunate and unprofessional.