Brief history:<BR>Married 12 years. H involved in EA/PA, we have been separated for 1 year. A has been kind of on again off again due to OWs divorce that became ugly and went to court. Anyway, H and I have had daily contact since the separation. He admits to being confused and not knowing what he wants.<BR> <BR>That is until about 3 months ago- he started talking about wanting to move back home, but wanted to go slowly and make sure we were doing it for the right reasons. He began telling me he loved me again, calling me several times a day at work, inviting me to his job for lunch with his co-workers, etc. He told kids and friends and co-workers that we were getting back together.<P>He still had not told OW- then about a month ago, he tried to tell her- about 3 conversations, then he began withdrawing from me again. Then about 3 weeks ago, he told me it wasn't working between us and he was ready to talk about divorce. I told him that this was a huge change and kind of sudden. My step-daughter is getting married at the end of this month and I told him I needed to concentrate on that for now, we'd talk aboout divorce after her wedding. I am making her wedding dress and 2 of her bridesmaids dresses. He agreed.<P>We have 2 kids living with me (d 11, s 8), and 2 kids living with him (my stepkids that lived with us when we were together- s 18, d 16). H has introduced OW to kids living with him- as a friend I think, but has agreed that younger kids will not be introduced to her until/ unless we divorce.<P>That was a long brief history! Anyway, during our conversations about getting back together, I was overly aggressive with the principles here. At the time, he seemed interested and asked a lot of questions. but, since he was unable to break it off with OW, he tells me that I made him bad about himself and that everything he did was wrong. I was reading Ellen Kreidman's Light His Fire this morning. In the book, she makes that point that during an A, the WS is not so much in love with the OP as much as the way the OP makes him feel about himself. I realized that while I have been trying to avoid LBs, I have not really been trying to make him feel better about himself because so much of what he does makes me so angry.<P>OW is telling him what a great father he is, I'm pointing out what needs to be done, how things need to be handled, etc.<P>Anyway, in the book, she has some great ideas about looking for positive things and making compliments aobut those. I have almost a month to try the Plan A thing again, then either Plan B or D. I will be looking for those positives things, the things that I do love about him and saying that to him. We'll see how he responds!<P>Also need some ideas about how to stall discussing D if he still wants to at the end of the month without it being a LB. Any suggestions?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cloudy:<BR><B>I was reading Ellen Kreidman's Light His Fire this morning. In the book, she makes that point that during an A, the WS is not so much in love with the OP as much as the way the OP makes him feel about himself. I realized that while I have been trying to avoid LBs, I have not really been trying to make him feel better about himself because so much of what he does makes me so angry.<P>OW is telling him what a great father he is, I'm pointing out what needs to be done, how things need to be handled, etc.<P>Also need some ideas about how to stall discussing D if he still wants to at the end of the month without it being a LB. Any suggestions?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hello, Cloudy,<BR>While my story is not as long and convoluted as yours, I do think I have some ideas! <BR>First of all, you already have the right ideas about what you need to do. Concentrate on building him up, making him feel better about himself. This is what SHE does, and as you said from the book you are reading, it DOES score points! <P>My H lives w/OW and I don't have daily contact w/him. Only contact is if I call him there, (have to go through HER to talk to him - YUCK), or write him. So although I have called there when I have a genuine reason, mostly I write letters, cards, etc. The last thing I sent him was from an idea I got here....someone posted "10 Things I love About My H" and I wrote down my 10 - actually came up with 25! I sent this to him, telling him I had been challenged to do it, and it was fun, and i should share it with him.....<P>See, build him up. DON"T talk about A. DON"T talk about "US" or Definitely DON"T talk about divorce!! Let him bring it up. Then, patiently, calmly, state that you do not intend to get divorced. If he wants one, he can go ahead and do the work, and see what comes next. Then, YOU STALL it for as long as you can! Have your atty. file for extensions, etc. Whatever it takes. <P>One of the things I think (my OWN opinion) that a lot of BS's do around here is SHARE EVERYTHING THEY KNOW about "relationships" etc. from this site w/WS. I don't think that's a good idea! At least not right away....not everything. Keep working on the stuff. Let them SEE rather than tell them everything. You're on the right track. Just take it slow.<P>P.S> I'd be interested in some of her ideas about "looking for positive things..."<P>Lupo

Good response lopolady, I think that I might have to see how many things I can come up with on my list "Why I love my H"<P>Cloudy, my H wouldn't even fill out a questionarre thing, so am not sure what his ENs are completely. OW is someone from way back in the past and H says that he has truly loved her all these years and it's been hard the last 10 years or so for him. I am not even sure hard to compete with this (her).<P>Focus on the D's wedding and make it what it is suppose to be for her and her husband to be, keep up the plan A and try not to nag I know that that is not what you are doing but that's what it sounds like to him. Invite yourself to lunch once in a while and show up with something to share with him. There are lots of reasons to have to contact him about a wedding, make sure they all end on a positive note and that you find one good thing off your list to share with him each time you converse this next month. Ignore the stupid, dumb things that he says and does right now that bother you, it's hard I know, but I think somethimes they are looking to push us in to do the thing that they can't do themselves, filing the papers. If we file then it is on us for the ending of our marriage not theirs. Doesn't matter what they did to contribute to that ending, if we get mad about their behavior and file then we have made it easy for them and that is what they want.<P>So stay strong, say relaxed and enjoy the wedding preparations, how luck your Stepdaughters is to have you as her mom and to make the dress for her how very special that will be for the two of you.<P>PLAN A your heart out!!! dawn

Hiya Cloudy...<P>I would have just a thought or two..<P>As far as your H's sudden change and not being able to let go or break up with OW, my gut is telling me that you are a stronger person and she played her "guilt" trump card. I got a feeling she "guilted" him into staying...."she doesn't love you like I do", "how do I make you feel", "I can't make it without you", "you said I was what you wanted, you promised we would be together, look at all I have done for you...yada, yada, yada" I have a sneaky suspicion she really got to him somehow.<P>Listen to Lupolady and daybreak...they give sound advice, as do the many others here! Best of Luck!!<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

Hi Cloudy:<P>I have a suspicion that Trueheart is right about OW playing her ace cards, but I think that once the erosion of the A has started OW can't really stop it...she can only keep it afloat for a little while longer.<P>My WH vascillates like this too...he will really try to work on the marriage when things aren't going well with OW but she will usually sense his drawing back and make a concentrated effort to draw him back in...but what was once a small leak she could plug with sex is now becoming a major leak that soon will be a torrent that she will be unable to stop. <P>The same goes for your WH I suspect....time is on your side...delay, stall, but don't do anything to further OW efforts...No LBing. You're doing well..keep it up.<P>Faye<P><BR>

Thanks for the support! And you guys are right- H even told me that she said things along the lines of "look at all the pain I've put so many people through so we could be together" and "I got a divorce and sacrificed my kids relationship with their Dad so we could be together"- yep guilt big time. H told me that he knew what he needs to do and just has not been able to do it. He said that when he tried to break it off with her, he felt like he had killed her.<P>Me on the other hand, I am pretty independent- something he always admired until his OW damsel in distress came along. I know he wants to feel needed, not sure how to do that without LB all over the place.<P>And H did complete the EN questionnaire several months ago. But, what I think he is getting from OW (ego stroking) did not show up. I'm already doing most of what I know he needs, I've just been so disgusted most of the time and trying not to LB, I haven't been appreciating or admiring his good qualities enough.<P>And, I've got something else on my side- the kids that are living with him think what he is doing is horrible, and they don't even really know the half of it. So far, they're not being too verbal with him, but I think that it won't be long. And stepdaughter that is getting married met OW last weekend. She became very angry at him, forbid the OW from coming to her wedding, told H that I have been their mother for a long time and he couldn't just replace me with someone else. <P>So, I will be trying to Plan A my butt off in the next month and will make sure that this wedding is everything D dreams it should be. After that, time will tell I guess. Again, thinks for the support.<P>Oh, and trueheart- any other insight into this guilt thing? I am stronger, and have been trying to not ask for his help too much. Should I show him a little more of my needy side?<P><BR> <p>[This message has been edited by Cloudy (edited September 03, 2001).]

Ok Lupo and other interested in suggestions from the Light His Fire book:<P>One assignment in particular is "listen, listen, listen- with my heart, not my head. Let my mate know that I understand what he is feeling, and reassure him that I am there for him. Don't criticize, evaluate, or give advice of any kind unless he asks for it"<P>This is pretty routine advice around this BB, falls in the category not making disrespectful judgements. Advice giving is one of the areas that I came on too strong with while he was talking about moving home. I have stopped that now, and guess what? Today, he asked what I thought of him borrowing some money from his 401K to buy 16 year old step daughter a car! I remember a couple of years ago (pre- affair), he needed money to pay his dues at a hunting club and took it out of his 401K without talking to me first and I went ballistic and we had a huge arguement since we had agreed that we would always discuss spending large amounts of money before we did it. I see todays conversation as progress. Of course, I encouraged him to do this. A couple of reasons- 1.She does need a car and 2. If he borrows all that he has available from his 401K he will not be able to easily afford a divorce! <P>Another sign of progress:<BR>Another piece of advice given pretty frequently around here is to always look your best. I've been doing this for a while, but today, H said- "I don't know if you've changed or if I'm just starting to notice, but you've been looking really nice lately. You seem to be wearing more form fitting clothes and you've got a great figure. It's really appealing. I find myself thinking about you a lot." (The infidelity diet has allowed me more clothing choices than I used to have).<P>Baby steps! I will keep Plan Aing and hope for more steps in the right direction.

Maezy, those do sound like positives...the comment about the way you look was very encouraging I'll bet. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>..any other insight into this guilt thing? I am stronger, and have been trying to not ask for his help too much. Should I show him a little more of my needy side?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Your WH sounds a lot like mine so let me relate a story that illustrates how desperate they are to be helpful to us. Ok, I decided to build a chain-line fence (mostly just connecting to existing fences)...needed a post-hold digger to dig holes for fense supports...asked WH if he had one...didn't but called local place to see if he could find one...he did...at a bargain price. Now the fence required digging numerous holes, mixing and pouring cement and setting poles, measuring and pulling chainlink...all of which I did myself except for a little help from my daughter. My WH and I discussed the fence progress several times and each time he brought up the fact that he found the posthold diggers for me...and in the face of what I had done it seem to be nothing...but he wanted credit for it from me...and so after the first or second time he mentioned it I began to make a big deal out of it and he was so pleased that he could help me in some way...it was almost pathetic. Recently it was changing the toilet seat at the office...I allowed him to do it entirely by himself when I could easily have done it myself...and then praised him for how well it fit (didn't move around). The man is hungary for praise...how I must have been failing him in the past to make him so desperate for it. <P>No wonder OW's being needy works so well to keep him tied to her...he is so desperate to be important to someone I guess...and this is a man who is a professional, educated and well-liked in the community. Don't understand his need.<P>Faye

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