Hey ladies, is it possible to be able to relate to someone who is not listening??? Can all the prayers in all the books in the world, including the bible, really have an effect on someone who keeps making choices to not be effected by them?? How long and hard do we pray, how much do we try to change ourselves, how creative do we have to become, how patient, tolerent, forgiving, kind and loving do we need to be before we can release ourselves from "trying" so darn hard to cope and be compassionate? And I do mean trying God's way, not our own way. <p>Maybe these are just questions that can't be answered. Maybe they are to personnal to be able to effectivly answered in general terms. Or maybe this is a legitiamate concern. I have to try to understand just how hard and how long I need to keep giving without getting in my marriage before I get so burnt out I don't care anymore!!!! No, nothing specific is happening, just the same ole non-communicative, mis-management of finances dribble. The same old anger issues, treat me with dis-respect stuff. You know, that everyday the H takes me for granted stuff. I just sometimes, don't want to go on. I want to run. I want to leave...but I know that leaving is not God's will. I feel trapped. <p>Is there something more I can do, think, say, be, try , etc that might help??? I do take care of myself. I am a likable outgoing person with a good job, a bright mind...I am smart and pretty and am ready to progress in my life. I am only 47 and have my whole life ahead of me, God willing, yet I feel like I am trapped in a relationship in this marriage that leads nowhere. Should I just be resigned to this??? Or what??<p>Yes, I am whining. But I am also asking for advice. What can I do to keep from having an affair or becoming so independent I don't care about my H anymore or going off on some crazy-making tangent??? God any suggestions???

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_67_1/102-2145902-8397745<p>Bold Love written in part by Dan Allendar talks about how we can love the evil, foolish and simple (ton) person. I am learning a good many things about myself and how I need to relate differently with my H. The other book that parallels this book is "Foolproofing your Life" by Jan Silvias. <p>Really provides some good insight in how to relate to our loved ones, how to speak without anger or drama and how to set consequences, etc. Your questions are good ones, but we can overcome and rise above the situation in our lives.

Sue B,<p>You posted this link on another thread, and I read the preview pages. I am going to order this book. It sounds like they have several examples that will give us strategies in dealing with these issues. <p>Thanks!
TNT

Hey Sue,
I just ordered the book along with another one about verbal abuse. Maybe these reads will help me focus on ME and what I can do to change and grow and do something positive with myself. I want to thrive with joy in the places God puts me instead of contuially being hurt and stuck due to my H's attitude. So, I will give it a look see and let ya know what happens.<p>God Bless and Thanks

Hello frstrtd,
Tell me if I am hearing correctly.....
You love you h, want to stay married, but he needs to change? He needs to see the light?
Have you given any consideration to Retrouvaille?
(((((hugs))))) cl

frstrtd,
Have you read Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud? That's the book I'd rank in the top five most helpful for me. That, along with Patricia Evans' book on verbal and Wetzler's book on passive agression, were the materials that led me to a place where I could no longer tolerate my H's presence in my life. I know the Bible says God hates divorce. The way I figure it, the marriage needs to be INTACT for it "count." <p>Some ingredients I consider essential in a marriage are affection, intimacy, respect, trust. Ironically, H did start giving some genuine hugs AFTER I requested a separation. By that time, I felt like he was dangling a carrot in front of my nose in order to avoid separation. The cycle of abuse had repeated too many times over the years for me to believe it was anything more than a "honeymoon" phase in yet one more trip through the same ol' dysfunction. So aside from the brief period of affection, all the essential ingredients I described are missing in this marriage. I've been celibate for nine years. <p>God undoubtedly hates divorce, but I doubt my circumstances within my marriage were fulfilling God's plan for me either. It's quite a dilemma, one that kept me at a crossroads for a long time, wondering what on earth I'm supposed to do. <p>There's been many comments and prayers in this forum about being still before God. I tried that. Nearly two years later, I felt like I had made strides spiritually, but in earthly concerns, I was very much in the same place. Then my favorite radio station had several messages over a two-week timeframe about "walking." After infancy, we are expected to walk. My relatively newfound reliance on prayer and scripture had run the gamut of infancy. I believed it was time for me to start walking. <p>I had prayed many times about "what should I do, how should I walk." For a long time, I felt like silence was my response. Gee, thanks for the guidance! Eventually, reducing my tolerance for H's behavior was giving me a warm feeling every time. Unfortunately, he got boundaried right out of my life. Not the ideal solution. But it's a direction and a choice. Lord help me! I wanted more than a marriage that leads nowhere (or in my case, reversing the course of a downward spiral). <p>I believe God wants us to be happy and prosperous. I also believe my H's choices made of his own free will were interfering with that. It was more than I could allow into my life any further. I can only hope that God approves of my choices. I choose to believe that wanting something more is ok. For me, getting something more in this marriage hinges on my H, and he's outside my control. He's incredibly resistant to change. That left me with the choice of separation or "settling." Maybe there were more options, but those were my choices as I saw them. In my heart, I believe God wants marriage to be rewarding, something worthy of celebration. "Settling" for what I had just didn't seem like the right choice. <p>Your choices are tough ones frstrtd. Hope my experiences provide some perspective that are helpful. I can relate to what you describe!

Hi,<p>cl, you wrote...
"You love your h, want to stay married, but he needs to change? He needs to see the light?
Have you given any consideration to Retrouvaille?"
I am not sure where you read that. I didn't write it in this thread. And if I implied it somehow, then there has been a mistake. And by the way, what is "Retouvaille?" [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I am trying to understand how to remain in this marriage and still help myself. That to me, is the key. I must be sick in some ways also to have chosen and then remain with this man for over 20 years. I also have problems and need to be healed. It is not ALL him. But, in the mean time, while I discover the soothing balm that God has for me to heal from my own hurts and problems, how to I stay "safe and sane" with my H? The verbal attacks probrably won't stop, because he is controling and it is his nature...not excuses just fact. The emotional abuse will continue, because he isn't really aware of ALL the hurt and damage he is doing and untill he is, I am not sure he will ever stop. And it IS NOT my job to point this out to him anymore. I have done enough of that. But, I do not believe in divorce unless absolutly necasary, and I don't think "we" are there yet. He has agreed to go to a marriage conference in April put on by Focus on the Family, but he will not go to any one on one counsling or any marriage therapy. He is willing to listen to reason sometimes about his abusive behavior, but continues to do some of the same abusive things anyway. I do believe that there is hope, but it isn't up to me to show him or tell him or correct or direct him anymore. I need to take care of me, and that is what I am going to do. That is what I need help with.

Hi lonesome heart,
I hear ya. I hope that it will not come to a seperation or divorce for me. I pray that that does not happen. My son also hopes and prays for that. But being realistic and hopeful can be 2 very different things. I am not certain of anything right now except that it is not time for me to go. Maybe my H will make that move if he cannot stand the changes that I will go through in regarding myself more then him for a change, but that will be up to him. I need to take care of me. I am not being selfish, just realistic and healthy! Amen to that!!!

HI frstrtd,
No, you didnt write that. It is what I surmised from this and previous posts you have made. I was asking if those assumptions are correct. I was hurrying in the post, which I should not do, and did not make myself very clear. Sorry.
Sonme of your questions only you can answer.
How much do we change ourselves? Only to where we feel comfortable! Out with the bad, in with the good.
How patient, how tolerant, how forgiving? Again, only to where you feel good. You arent doing it for him, but for yourself. We cannot change the spouse (though most of us wish we could [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] )
You can force yourself to change into someone that you dont like just to survive, but you may have done that already. I know I did. But the price was heavy when I had to search around for who I really was. It happened so slowly, so subtlely that it is hard for me to say when it occurred.
Retrouvaille is a catholic/christian based weekend program to teach couples to communicate. They have a website. I think it is retrouvaille.org
The focus is not one particlar problem like in counseling, the focus is total communication and RESPECT. They teach you a method called dialoguing. It is intense, takes practice and lots of patience, but the results for h and i were wonderful. The beauty of it is you can use it in any area-as complex as finances, sex, child rearing or as simple as wondering why the other said something at a given time. You learn to share feelings, without LBs.
Selling points to get my h there: it was only one weekend instead of weekly counseling sessions (we didnt know about follow-up), we would be in our own hotel room, parking and meals handled, you were not required to talk about your problems, the priests run the program with other recovered couples, no smoking!, all was confidential, no insurance companies requesting your files, it is not counseling per say-it is communicating and that might come in handy in other life areas!
H ended up getting more from the program than I did. We still dialogue, now via e-mail because he is overseas. It has helped tremendously.
aloha, cl

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>God any suggestions???<hr></blockquote><p>Just noticed your interesting typo there frstrtd! When you get Evan's book on verbal abuse, you'll find that you've already done some of the exercises. Namely, pointing out the behavior you find unacceptable in hopes it will stop. Verbal abuse can be a slippery subject sometimes. Evans describes an abuser as someone who continues the behavior after the victim has clearly identified the unacceptable behavior and requested that it stop. <p>Knowing what you're dealing with is empowering, but it's ultimately up to your H to decide his future actions. You really CAN'T relate to someone who isn't listening because it's up to him to make himself available to you. I truly hope your H is more reachable than mine. The conference in April sounds great. It's a ways off, but you'll have time to assemble an awesome relationship toolkit between now and then!

Hi,
cl, I appreciate the advice about the weekend. As you read, we already have one planned. We have talked about going to this marriage conference retreat for a few months now and will be recieving the info in the mail anyday. We even may have another young couple going with us. Hopefully, my h will be willing to be humbled enough to "get it". That is, that he will have his eyes and ears open enough at the conference to want to mature, grow and change for God and for himself. I know the conference is not a cure all, but it is a start. I still will continue to find out more about myself and how I can 'get well' within my marriage and stop focusing on my h. <p>By the way, lonesome heart, how do I "assemble an awesome relationship toolkit between now and then!"??...and what is the "toolkit"?? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

Learning about Plan A and Plan B here at the MB site is a great toolkit all by itself. Learning about lovebusters, angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, ... guess I need a refresher myself. There's a coupla more drains on the love bank described in the articles. Carrying out a good Plan A has helped a great many marriages in these forums. While it's no guarantee that your marriage will live happily ever after as a result, you will be a better person regardless of what actions your H chooses. <p>In my own dysfunctional marriage, I did see improvement as a result of Plan A. I had fallen into a downward spiral of LBs, angry outbursts. I didn't like what I had become, and Plan A helped ME tremendously. The downward spiral reversed a bit, but my H continued to be what I call a "non-participant." He welcomed the "new and improved me," which was really the "me" I was years ago. I plan A'd before I knew what Plan A was. I was on a one-way street and it took many years to figure it out. <p>I spent many hours on the internet looking for information, and none of it fit until I read about verbal abuse. That information, unfortunately, fit like a glove. Other tools on my belt are understanding the cycle of abuse, the dynamics of the relationship, and ways to make changes. The Townsend and Cloud books on Boundaries took a while to penetrate my brain, but learning boundaries and practicing them are the most important tools of all for me.

frstrd,<p>Do you want to check out that book that SueB suggested? There are some preview free pages at amazon to review - if you are interested, maybe we can go through it together on this "gentle" forum.<p>You and I are at the same point - can't change them, realize we can only work on us, - but really don't want a divorce - but trying to cope with the emotional wounds constantly being dished out.<p>Let me know what you think.
TnT

trustntruth,
I am so sorry that I have not answered you before this, but I couldn't log onto the net for a few days. <p>Anyway, I ordered the book Bold Love and will be getting it in the mail in the next week or two. I will let you know when I get it. Maybe going through it together will be good idea. <p>Is there anyone else interested in doing that?