RW- Also please join my thread on general questions, called Betrayed Husbands.

Thanks for the support Believer.

Last night, we all went to the barn. On the way there, for the first time in a long time, my wife actually put her hand on my leg while we were driving to the barn. I cleaned her horse's stall while she was riding, and then went and sat and watched her ride. After she was done, DD's and myself got to ride her horse as well. I didn't have control, but that was ok, considering her horse isn't really accustomed to anyone riding her other than my wife.

After we got home, and showers were had by all, I got DD(3) to sleep and sent DD(12) to bed. Wife was chatting on the computer and listening to some of those music files she spent so long trying to download from her email. What bothered me, is she used headphones to listen to these songs. She has also expressed there is nothing with the guy that sent them to her. I know she hasn't been online chatting much, so I can't really complain about that. She did stay up late though, and could have ended up chatting with anyone.

While she was sitting there chatting and listening to music, she made an observation about what I was watching on tv. I responded with there wasn't anything on. She said something along the lines of well, go to bed then. That sent up a red flag, not sure why though. I decided I was going to go out and having a smoke before going to bed. She came out too. After I was finished, I said, ok, well, I'm going to bed then, and asked her upstairs or downstairs, and she said whichever. I'm guessing she's being as indifferent as I am, neither of us wanting to make a big deal of it. So, I decided since she put the ball in my court, I would make the choice to sleep upstairs. Not sure when she came to bed, but when she did, my back was once again to her side of the bed, and she cuddled up to me and wrapped an arm around me. I rolled over enough to see her face, and kissed her, which she returned. Then we went to sleep.

I'm considering asking her today, what in the world could she be chatting about so late at night for so long.

She had some things we were supposed to talk about last night, but after getting on the computer, that was it for the night. We were supposed to look at the budget too.

Tonight is supposed to be date night, but I don't think we have anything concrete established. At some point I guess I'll have to ask what we're doing. The only problem is, she got a late start this morning because DD(3) shut off her alarm, and she was running late, not to mention, DD(3) was being crabby, and peed in her/our bed. Seems she's having a bad day today, and not sure I want to say/do anything to make it more difficult.

Guess the best thing to do is to see how things go on their own.

RW,
Sorry I haven't been on and caught up w/ your posts for a couple of days. Work has been pushing my buttons > <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Narrowly avoided a mullti-state road trip this week.
Anyway, wanted to say "Dude! What's up!" and comment on one of your statements from your last post .
You said she stayed online, but you were supposed to talk about the budget and a few other things. I think you could have broached the subject without being taken as a confrontation, and shouldn't have let it go. I would think a casual "Did you still want to take some time and go over this before it gets late?" as you saunter by should have gently redirected her attention and jogged her memory. (Now that you're working out, you should be able to saunter, LOL). Just present the option, and let her decide to make a move or not.
Good to hear you and the DDs rode the horse. Sounds like some quality time, although you got the fun job first. Been there, done that (but we had cows). Are the girls noticing the change, do you think?
Although it might briefly inflame the situation for you ask about the sudden change, if she has really come around, the subject should be approachable. Good luck to you (from me & the Mrs.), in more ways than one.
So when are we gonna get to do that fishin trip? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

RW,
Sorry if I came across on that last post as harsh, and I know it's a day late and $1.50 short! But I know you deal with all kinds of (annoying) people at work with great tact, and know you can use that style at home too. Just imagine you're talking to some O-6 on the JICTRANS staff (but don't call her sir), and you'll be all right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Anyways, keep on plugging, show her you don't want to give up. Later!

Well, here's some interesting reading. I'll apologize in advance, as this may be a long post.

DDay initiated a lot of changes in my life. One of those things was WW complaining about me going to bed at 10pm every night. Well, when you have to get up at 5:30am you have to go to bed earlier. I work 7am to 3pm, and WW works 9am to 5pm. Well, I decided I could afford to stay up another hour, so for the last 5 months, I've been going to bed between 11pm and 11:30pm.

This last week I've been sleeping upstairs with WW. Well, I was staying up till my new times before going to bed, but I was doing this in the living room. There were a few nights where WW actually said, why don't you go to bed, which I did since it was about that time anyway.

In addition to this, at last counseling I asked if WW could compromise her being on the computer time, since she's on the computer most every night. She said she could compromise. Well, last night, WW was on the computer, and at 10:30pm I decided to go out for a smoke, then I was going to bed. Well, WW came out and asked why I had been staying up late. So I pointed out what I mentioned in the above paragraph about staying up later because she used to complain about me going to bed every night at 10pm. I asked why she was asking, and she said she felt like I was only staying up to keep tabs on her.

I then proceeded to talk to her about the things I intended to talk to her about in counseling today. Her telling her best friend that I won't let her go to the Literotica get-together this weekend, which I never said any such thing, her only hearing I had no intention of relocating anywhere, when in fact I said I had no intention of relocating anywhere without feeling better about our relationship, and us being low on money, and she felt the need to renew her monthly subscription to DeviantArt knowing we are short on money.

Of course, this all led into a great big can of worms, as she always gets mad when I have a problem with something that she's doing. She brought up my financial irresponsibility, which steps have been taken to curb forever. She further went on to express that her whole day belongs to someone else, and that "her" time starts when the kids go to bed.

She also mentioned she feels Counseling is a waste of time and that we're only treading water. I'm appearantly not allowed to want to spend more time with her than per our arrangement through counseling, which is Sunday family day, Monday lunch date, and date night.

I asked her if she loves me, and her reply was sometimes. About a month ago, I was prepared to begin Plan B, and told WW it was time for a physical seperation. She seemed happy about finally getting me to agree to that, and imagine my surprise a few days later when she says she doesn't want that anymore. Last night, I asked her why she changed her mind. Essentially, she couldn't bear the idea of not being with the girls every day, and money would be a problem. I translate this to mean, it's conveinent.

After this whole talk was over, I said I was going to bed, and she asked if I was sleeping downstairs, and I said if she wanted, and she said yes. So, I'm back downstairs....more sleepless nights and nightmares.

Counseling this afternoon, I wish I knew where this is going.

Scott, I'll respond to ya later. But, you didn't come across as harsh.

RW,
Was just checking out some other posts, went over to General Questions, and just happened to see your reply today in "Loyal husbands (and MB experts) come here". Looks like WW is back to poking you with sharps sticks, but witholding just enough so you won't use her as a lawn dart. (read: "pitch her to the curb")
I'm so sorry to hear that after apparent improvements in your efforts, she was onlt biding time. Man, I can feel your pain and agony in your post. Your translation of her comments sounds accurate, and she must still just be keeping a seat warm in the house until she can afford to strike out independently.
Good luck tonight in counseling.

RW, I apologize... either I'm going blind, or losing my mind. You made the same post here. Must be the excitement of the day. It was mentioned to me today to come in for that possible job offer Fri. AM, and my mind is abuzz. Hope counseling goes well (calm, not too much excitement, seeing as how the surprises have been revealed) though.

I have a link I want to share, it's about passive/aggressive disorder, which our counselor diagnosed WW with. The counselor hasn't decided if it's just P/A traits, or if she actually has a disorder.

Passive/Aggressive

Counseling went pretty good, considering I was the only one there. WW had to cover a police chase fatality and didn't get home until after 9pm.

In counseling, we talked about passive/aggressive tendencies and the relation to recent events. The counselor further explained that our 6 month agreement was to give WW time to decide if she wants to stay in this relationship or not. It was also designed to give us time to heal. The counselor further mentioned, she wanted it for me most of all. All in all though, I've come a long way since she first saw me. When I first went in, she said I was a basketcase. Now, I have a grip on myself, my life, and the situation. I'm in a much better situation to progress further. The problem is WW being passive/aggressive is stuck, and will remain stuck until she actively makes a choice to change things.

Trying to tell someone they are passive/aggressive is like trying to tell an alcoholic they're an alcoholic.

Understanding passive/aggressive better makes a lot of things make sense, that I've been confused about since this all started. It also changes my perspective on the situation. Understanding what's going on, makes it much easier to cope with the situation.

On a side note, talked with WW after counseling, she was on her way to a news conference concerning the police chase fatality. She asked me to go clean her barn stall for her, which I agreed to. Told her very little about counseling, didn't want her to know we were talking about passive/aggressive traits. I made a request, I told her I wanted to ask her a question, and I wanted her to wait until I was finished talking before making an answer. I asked her to consider letting me continue to sleep upstairs, since I have a hard time sleeping downstairs. I said I could sleep in my own zip code, no hugging, cuddling, kissing, groping, or anything unless she wanted it. Her first response was, ok, I'll sleep downstairs. So I responded with, after 7 years, I'd like to think we'd be able to sleep in the same bed. She said fine, but I can't make any comments on what time she comes to bed. I said ok, since all I want is to be able to get a good nights sleep.

I not only got to sleep upstairs last night, but when she came to bed, she cuddled up to me and put her arm around me. Talk about wow.

I'm still getting I love you too's, which to me is a big thing considering where this was a few months ago. I get kisses and hugs, however, she doesn't seek these things from me, it happens when I seek them from her.

I'm going to take my counselor's advice and stick to the agreement. Monday lunch dates, date night, and Sunday family day. I'm not supposed to ask for more time, but if she wants more time then I give it.

Basically, I need to give her as much space as possible, and Plan A my butt off until the end of October. Won't be able to do anything else until then.

Scott, good luck on the job interview, if anyone deserves it, it's you. You've been a great friend, and we need to come up with a camping/fishing trip. No kids or wives, just us guys.

Well, WW's best friend was in St. Louis for Literotica get together. WW decided she was going to St. Louis when she got off work yesterday to see her best friend. She told me she was going to be hanging out in best friend's hotel room, but I don't know if they did or not, honestly I don't want to know.

She came home around 2am. We talked a little, she asked how my evening was, and I asked how hers was, not too many details either way.

Guess we'll see how the weekend goes, but I'm still here alive and kicking.

Sounds like you are getting to the bottom of this, and now have a possible explanation for her strange behavior. I think that is very promising. Hang in there.

Believer: Yeah, everything is finally starting to make sense. Now I understand, it's easier to see when I'm dealing with "Bad Jenn", and I can react appropriately.

One of the aspects of P/A relationships is the person involved with a P/A person become to feel low self-esteem and low self-worth. P/A's have a way of making their partner believe everything is all their fault.

I really know now, I'm not responsible. Yes, I made some mistakes that didn't help the situation, but this nightmare is not of my making and has NOTHING to do with me. Knowing this, I've found the inner peace I've been trying so hard to find. I know my self esteem and self worth are just as good as I always thought they were.

As a result, I am doing my best to Plan A as much as possible to "Good Jenn" and avoiding "Bad Jenn" as much as possible. "Bad Jenn" still has to be dealt with though, boundaries have to be enforced. Sadly enough, this requires a LOT of tact to avoid LB's.

But know this, at this point, I'm in a very good place. My counselor agreed with me last counseling. So now, I just need to weather the storm until the end of October when WW has to make her decision.

I will continue to post the trials and tribulations of living/coping with someone who is P/A. I think LINY and Brown will be of great help as they are dealing with exactly what I'm dealing with. I never once thought WW could be as jumbled as Brown was, but now I see it for myself. She doesn't know if she's coming or going from one day to the next.

I know who I am, and where I am, I just don't know where I'm going...

Well, seems I have found myself a nice thread in GQII about Passive/Aggressive. I think it'll get more traffic and possibly/hopefully more moral support.

It gets incredibly difficult to persevere as each day passes. I'm holding onto the end of October, as that'll be the point WW has to make a choice, stay married and make needed changes despite her ignorance of her P/A, or go our seperate ways.

This past weekend was ok, don't recall seeing much of Mr. Hyde, then again, don't remember seeing much of WW at all. When WW was home, had some good times with Dr. Jekyll. I think I should probably stop calling her Mr. and just make it Mrs. Hyde.

Ok, on that note, moving to my new thread in GQII, here is the link:

Passive/Aggressive?

Fight the good fight!