I did call penny on the number on her website.
Left the message, no reply yet. Still waiting on delivery of SAA.

On the advice of the no longer neutral friend where she was crashing....he's taking his key back from her when he see's her next.
If this drives her from me into the OM's arms, so be it.
She has one of two decisions. Leave, or come back and NEVER, ever have ANY contact whatsoever with the OM or his wife or go-betweens.

This friend also suggests (from his personal experience)that if, in the event my WW does come back, that WW sign a contract to that effect and file a restraining order to enforce that seperation.

I've moved money around online so WW can't clean us out completely. For all I know now WW might just do that and give it to OM.
Changed the online passwords as well.
I'm opening a new account in my name as soon as the bank opens 7:30 monday morning and closing the joint ones. If they need both of us to close them, I'll empty them and take my name off.
Don't answer the cell phone if it's WW. Make her leave a message.
Make any and all communication between me and WW in writing only.
Have all mail re-routed to a PO box so she can't get at any new checks, etc. She'll have to write me as to where she want's her mail forwarded.
Keep my 9:00 am therapist's appointment.
Dunno what I should do with the cell phones. I got a plan with unlimited minutes between us to improve communication between us. It's my name on the contract.
I've got complete support from all my friends that know. And complete support from work to take the necessary time to deal with this.

There is no family locally. Closest is an uncle of hers 100 miles north of here.
Her brother and parents are 400mi west, preparing for the brothers wedding next month. (They had a little beach ceremony last year but are doing this to get it legal in the states and have the big family wedding.)
My parents will be no help, divorced when I was 7. My mother will do a "I told you so" about redheads, and this could possibly kill dad.
I can tell my sister, but she's within a couple of miles of WW's parents. I'll make sure they all will communicate on this.

This guy is scary, I always felt a bit odd about this OM. Even though he was a very likable guy and is able to instantly make friends. WW loves him because she believes that he truly likes everybody. My mind instantly thought, "yeah, he likes them for what he can take from them"

The only "title" I can put WW's unacceptable proposal just sounds too much like "Big Fun Happy Family Homeschool and Cult"

I'm very scared now. Who can I trust?

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: BigNiceGuy ]</small>

The no-longer-neutral friend suggests that I don't tell any more friends the gory details, just that WW has cheated and left.
Her family deserves more.
Maybe they can get her to move over there and into more intensive therapy to actually face her inner demons rather than submerge it in all this unhealthy mess.

I still love her.
I still remain her best friend.

But this path is the only way possible to have a chance at building a healthy and loving relationship.
I can now admit that we were in trouble a long while ago, even before WW met the OM. And I could see some of it, and she pushed away all my attempts to communicate about it.
If I could wait till I was 35 before I found her, I can have the patientce to work and wait some more to get her back.

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: BigNiceGuy ]</small>

I didn't call WW last night to wish her good night. Or this morning. After she stormed out like that, the next move had to be hers. WW finally called at 3:30 today. She crashed at OM's wifes place (they've lived seperately for two years). Dunno if OM was there.
WW wanted assurance that I still loved her and was her friend. She got that assurance. WW told me she was down at her cafe with one of our female friends who still doesn't know. WW is going to tell her. This is good. She was going to wait till tuesday when another FF gets back in town. Here's hoping she tells her too.

WW wants to talk with me after that. I suggested a neutral place that none of us go to, so there won't be any baggage attached to the place.
It's been just about three hours. I will verify that the friend has been told before I will see WW. Right now WW and female friend should be at the 6:00 depression support group, which is overseen by the OM himself. This is so messed up.

One friend that I have been talking to said that a similar 4-way was suggested as a solution after that marriage suffered and affair.

Friends good advice was to run screaming away from any relationship like that. I already knew that, but It's good to talk with someone who has personally experienced a very similar issue.

Just verfied that WW told friend, I don't know how much was really said.

I need to find out what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong.
Still waiting on the SAA book.

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: BigNiceGuy ]</small>

WW still determined to get her own apartment so she can find herself and still able to have access to me and the OM while retaining the right to be able to tell either of us to "take a hike" so WW can have alone time to figure this mess out. WW wants to use "our money" to pay for the apartment. WW is tired of feeling like she's living out of her van. I repeated the offer to setup a seperate room in the house that I would not go in. She refused, saying it'd be too smothering.
Her female friend offered the same, but WW is dead set on the apartment.

What do I do next?
I don't want to be the doormat.

Do I just make her put it all on her credit card?
Or help out with the rent with the condition that she never sees the OM there?
Or with the condition that the place is for her and her only, with neither I or the OM allowed in the apartment?
If I yank her access to funds for this apartment, won't that just drive her away from me furter even faster?
I'm even afraid to tell her about this wonderful site, that she would use the info to "fix" their relationship.

Still waiting for replys from
Penny.

No phone calls back, or email yet.

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: BigNiceGuy ]</small>

Big Guy,

I'm sure you'll hear from Penny today....she doesn't work on weekends...but usually hits the ground running on Mondays. In the meantime...just hang on a bit and delay making a decision so you can get Penny's input. She's a gifted coach and will help you.

Is your wife working? Perhaps she may need to get a job to pay for this apartment instead of schmoozing all day at the cafe and expecting you to help her leave you?

Just woke up and found Penny's email. Yaaaay!!
No info yet, but she has my cell#

WW wife isn't working now since Jan. On medical leave for stress aggravating her GI condition.
And the Depression thing too.

Her research job is waiting for her as soon as she tells them she wants to go back. She doesn't want to go back before the end of the semester (June) so she can do her self discovery.
WW said she has spent most of her life conforming to the ideals and wishes of others and wants to find the real her.

I'm still opening a seperate accounts in my own name to safeguard my direct deposit paycheck and the house payments. When she was working, her research stipend accounted for about 30% of our income. I've been working at the university, I'm on salary, so no overtime. But we've been losing gound financially since the first of the year. I felt it was ok since it was only for one semester.
This apartment will only add to the financial drain.

I'll safeguard my income and the house payments and leave 30% of what was in savings right now.
She won't like it, but It'll have to do.

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: BigNiceGuy ]</small>

BG,

Her research job is waiting for her as soon as she tells them she wants to go back. She doesn't want to go back before the end of the semester (June) so she can do this "self discovery".

Well, self discovery has a price tag. And why should you foot the bill? Look at your finances...and realistically decide how much you are able to give her and keep your house and the bills current. Anything outside of that, she will need to earn on her own. Part of facing the consequences of her actions, may be giving up some of the freedom she enjoyed by living under your wing. Let her REALLY "discover" what flying on her own is like. Offer what is fair for you to offer without compromising your own financial security. She can expect no more...especially since she isn't contributing anything.

WW said she has spent most of her life conforming to the ideals and wishes of others and wants to find the real her.

Fine let her find the real her....let her earn the righ to do that too...by supporting her journey instead of expecting you to finance it.

I'm still opening a seperate accounts in my own name to safeguard my direct deposit paycheck and the house payments. When she was working, her research stipend accounted for about 30% of our income. I've been working at the university, I'm on salary, so no overtime. But haven't been gaining any ground financially. And this apartment will only add to the financial drain.

Don't let it be. Aside from the fact that you are under no obligation to suffer while she finds herself, she clearly has other options besides an apartment. Her friend offered to help, so she won't be out on the street. If she runs to MOM...let her...believe me...that will create conflict and hasten the end of things.

I'll safeguard my income and the house payments and leave 30% of what was in savings right now.
She won't like it, but It'll have to do.

She isn't going to like alot of things you do right now....because they threaten her fantasy. Don't let it weaken your resolve. Penny will help....I'm glad she contacted you. Good luck.

Opened my own bank accounts, shifted my direct deposit and arranged to have the house payments made from all that instead of the joint accounts.
She withdrew 500 from the Joint house account. Maybe since that's the rainy-day/roof repair money and she'd thought I wouldn't notice. I called her casually to let her know that her workplace left a message on the home phone for a function. I called her and got a very chilly reception. I remained cheerful and pleasant and wasn't going to mention the money till she did.
She didn't.
I told her that I'm still up for driving her up to her doctors appointment and she said she's not sure she wanted to be in a car with me for three hours. Understandable. I said we could just read books to each other on the trip like we used to. Both enjoyed reading/being read to.
She still didn't want me to drive her.

I spent 1-1/2 hours talking in a neutral setting with her last night.
She had just told her female friend.
Avoiding all the lovebusters. Well, I don't know about annoying habits, but I was looking for signs on her.

At the meeting I expressed just how much this all hurt me. I managed to use some the communication exerceses and say it in language that was non-threatening. I told her that I felt that my trust had been raped. She immediately got visibly angry and said that I don't get to use that word. That no man gets to use that word.
I grew very concerned about this reaction.
I asked her point blank if she had been. She said no.
She admitted that she intentionally left a loophole in her SI promise sheet. It let her stop the injury she was doing and substituted it for another. I asked for for a new promise sheet without loopholes.
She holds me at fault for not noticing her later self injury. The ones that I did notice, she told me were actually accidental.
I did get her to agree to check with her therapist to see if anyttime opens up before her next scheduled appointment.

She's probably getting her apartment today or tomorrow.

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: BigNiceGuy ]</small>

After WW told all to one of her female friends, I had a meeting with WW on sunday in a neutral, public place.
Neither of us happy. I think I managed to keep away from all of the lovebusters in the meeting. If I exhibited any annoying habits, she didn't react. She wouldn't hold my hand the whole time.

I asked her to describe how all this A makes me feel. She already acknowledges the selfishness of her her actions. I have that in writing from her first answer round to my questions after she revealed the A.
I asked her to do some more thinking what her life would be without me in it.
I asked her to pray about all has happened.
She admitted that she knew how destructive all of her behavior has been to our marriage and trust.

She did promise to try to see her therapist sooner than her scheduled session next week

That's the bulk of that meeting.

Monday I protected the bank accounts, but not before she raided some to open her apartment.
Called her monday to forward a message from her work, I remained upbeat, she was decidedly chilly. Knows about the bank, tho she didn't say. I repeated my offer to drive her to her Doc's appointment on wednesday. WW's not sure she could be that long in a car with me.
When I was away from the house, WW grabbed some laundry, her bath stuff, some food, and dishes for her new place.

I noticed she left some meds for her doc visit. She remembered and came in after I went to sleep on the couch. No call, nothing. Look of anger and disgust on her face as I had a chair braced against front door. Asked for her meds, hugged the cat, put him down, and left.

I was afraid, shaken.

Change the locks?

Good news now. I've retained Pennny for coaching.

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: BigNiceGuy ]</small>

Big Guy,

Protecting the bank accounts is necessary...but as far as changing the locks, save that (and propping chairs) for Plan B (unless of course Penny says differently). Right now, in Plan A, it's important to try and negotiate these things using honesty to guide you. "W, Please let me know when you are coming to the house or you need things for the apartment. This is still your home, but now that you're furnishing another place, it hurts me when you take things away from here and I'd like to know ahead of time."

Also when you talk about how you feel....Try to use simple statements instead of metaphors like "rape". It's okay to say "I feel violated" or "I feel devastated" but avoid phrases that says I feel "LIKE"______........ because they are unclear and can be misunderstood and manipulated.

Please tell Penny that I sent you over there. I work with her as one of her mentors for couples in trouble, and I am in the process of completing my certification to coach with her...that way if you need extra help between appointments, she can have your permission to share what's happening to you with me.

Good Luck and blessings to you!

Penny knows you referred me.
My last conversation with WW on the phone when she called me. Said she wanted to get more of her stuff from the house. I told her I had a church meeting after 7 and that wouldn't be home then. WW says she blames me for forcing her to call her parents to tell them about the A and to get money for her apartment. She feels that my moving our money is me being vindictive and mean and that half of it is hers. I was calm and collected, and she started shouting.
I said "[WW's name], you're shouting, this conversation's over." and I hung up.
Later I called her parents to give them the whole story.
Later that night WW's mother called WW to convince her to let mother drive WW to doctors appointment instead of OM and OMW.

This is good.

Is there any way to restrict this thread to only I, longtime posters, and those I choose to let in?

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: BigNiceGuy ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is there any way to restrict this thread to only I, longtime posters, and those I choose to let in?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No there isn't....but since I'm the one who has mainly responded...it isn't much of an issue either. When you post on a public board, you cannot control who responds...but in general...getting different perspectives...even new posters....is sometimes very beneficial. You can ask for certain people to respond to you though. I personally think that the GQII board would be a good place for you to post now that you are past the initial jfo stage. I would say that's where you will find the densiest population of good veterans and people who are struggling with the same issues that you are. You can put a link to this thread. Look for vets like Orchid, Pepperband, Ark, K, 2long, Mortarman, JustJ, Takola to name a few. This board is slow moving right now....and if you are looking for more answers, that's where to find them.

Well, She's got the last of her clothes.
She feels that she has to do this so she can know that she can survive on her own. I've been there a long time before. I think she'll find out quickly how that life can pale compared to marriage. She said that she's never had to live on her own completely before. Been in college nonstop since high-school.

Penny's approved my letters so far.
All three go out them tomorrow. WW will get hers handed to her in person and I'll leave before she can read it....

This protection phase is so hard to start. It makes me feel like I'm giving up on everything we have and telling WW so.

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: BigNiceGuy ]</small>