PEACE&LOVE= Oh my gosh, really??? That makes me feel better, that you had the same feelings that I had :)Just Learning,has told me that ,that is something I really have to work with. The feeling that I had and still have that my husband is pure perfection. It makes my H angry, but I just cannot help it. Thats the way I see him.
We are trying to make our marriage work with the help of everyone here and God of course. We appreciate soooooooooooo much all the input from everyone. It has been a lot of help, to see that we are not weird,or freaks, because this happened to us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
That is something I should consider; like you, do something for myself, to make myself happy and not depend on anyone for my happiness. That is a very good way to go in life. I am happy for you and your husband!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Maybe your husband can talk to my husband and tell him how he felt ,how he feels still.
Thank you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Myrta

Peace&Love:

You said:

so guess what I am like? guess what OM
was like?

What do you mean by that?

I am trying very hard to understand why my wife replaced me with an OM who is my opposite in all aspects.

How does a married woman pick an OM that is so different from the husband? Is this the end result of resentment, because the husband is supposedly perfect?

I have NOTHING in common with my wife’s OM and yet Myrta thought the OM was her soul mate. How do you get to that point? I need to understand this, as my wife does not have the answer.

Myrta,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yOU said it!!! When my husband accepts,really accepts that I did this, we will ,he will, start the rebuilding of our marriage. See, he already knows most of the details of the affair, but yet he wants more. Why more? What good is that going to make to him? I dont think any! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah! But, Myrta it is HIS recovery, so he has to make the call on when enough is enough. Until then, heck even after then <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , be very honest with him. Not hurtful, but give him the honesty he needs with a dose of humility thrown in. OK?

But, yes he has to face it and it is tough. very tough. Part of it is about things you don't and won't understand. Why can't you? It is simple, each of us (you, I, Stanley) make a marriage special in our own way. We select little things, and sometimes big things that really mean something to us. Often, in fact most of the time, the spouse NEVER knows what makes us special to your H/W. But, there are many little things.

That is what he is struggling with right now as do most BS's. He is struggling with the "specialness" that is represented by his relationship with you. Did you notice what he asked PAL. He asked her </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am trying very hard to understand why my wife replaced me with an OM who is my opposite in all aspects.

How does a married woman pick an OM that is so different from the husband? Is this the end result of resentment, because the husband is supposedly perfect?

I have NOTHING in common with my wife’s OM and yet Myrta thought the OM was her soul mate. How do you get to that point? I need to understand this, as my wife does not have the answer.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, you don't have the answer, but it very hard for him to face the fact that you picked another over him. He will NEVER understand this, although he struggles to do so. But he hasn't faced that he can not explain HIS attraction to you from very early on in his and your life. He cannot make me understand, although physical beauty is easily seen by many. Clearly there was more to you, that he felt soooo drawn to.

Myrta, he is trying to put order back in his life. He is trying to get the details so that he can put the puzzle together and see what went wrong and where it went wrong. Here is the irony Myrta, you feel attacked by this, but the really he is looking for a way to open up and let you into himself and his life. You don't know it, but you were his security blanket. When all else in the world might go up in smoke, he trusted that YOU would help him, stand with him, and love him.

He wants that feeling back, so he struggles with the puzzle. It will take awhile longer for him to decide how many missing pieces he really doesn't need to find. You talking with him, being honest with him, in fact considering the question of why? will help him with this decision.

If I may continue the puzzle analogy a bit further, your life with him was like a picture, to him a beautiful picture. He did not notice the lines that suggested it was a puzzle that could be broken apart. So when it was tipped over and all of the pieces scattered, he was shocked. When he tried to put the puzzle back together, and he realized that pieces were missing, he panics. He fears he will not have his beautiful picture back.

You can help him search for the pieces Myrta. But, in the process you can do something else and that is to start creating another beautiful picture with the both of you in it. Eventually, he will stop looking for the lost pieces of the first, and realize that another picture is under construction and it looks beautiful, further, there are NO pieces missing from this one.

Does this help you see where the struggle is within him? It is not about you as much as it is about what was lost. You have a very very important role in all of this, but the absolute biggest is that YOU need to recognize he loves you dearly and above all else he fears losing you. You need to stop fighting that and accept it. If you do, you will see how you can help and you will be able to help. He does need your help.

It is likely that you have never seen your H in such a damaged and weakened state before. He will heal and he will get strong, and so will his love for you, if you help him now.

God Bless,

JL

JL:

Thanks again for the support.

This is what Myrta posted to Aussie this AM:

"curiosity killed the cat" Is better sometimes not to know so much. Just accept that the affair took place, and try to put it behind, if you are really forgiving her!

Who said this would be easy?

Yeah, I liked Myrta because she was very pretty. But, she had that something which is hard to describe for me.

Myrta is visiting my daughter today. We will se what she writes when she comes back!

How can I make Myrta feel safe. She still thinks that I only want to get information so I can divorce her at a later date.

Part of it is about things you don't and won't understand. Why can't you? It is simple, each of us (you, I, Stanley) make a marriage special in our own way. We select little things, and sometimes big things that really mean something to us.

I need to find those special things very badly. I tell Myrta all the time, but she would rather do something else than trying to help me with my struggle. OTOH she was highly concerned about the feelings of the OM after D-day. This was of paramount importance to her.

That is what he is struggling with right now as do most BS's. He is struggling with the "specialness" that is represented by his relationship with you.

One day I wanted to talk to Myrta about the email where she professed profound love for the OM.

So I ask Myrta: “Do you really mean this stuff you wrote?” Myrta said, “Gee I don’t know. I think I was so involved in the affair that I simply wanted to write something real pretty to see what kind of effect it had on the OM. Or maybe I wanted to justify the affair.”

So then I said to Myrta: “As you know the OM took those words very seriously and he pasted them more than once in the several emails he wrote back when he was pleading with you to take him back. In fact, in one email he questioned the veracity of those words and wondered if you did not mean to say them.”

Suddenly I could see the panic in Myrta’s face and she replied: “I think I really meant to say that! Oh My God, he (the OM) must be suffering thinking that those words were a lie. He needs to know those were my true feelings at the time I wrote them. I have to let him know I was not lying at the time!”

Myrta had already told me the words did not mean anything to her, but wanted those words to be special to the OM. Why is Myrta unable to do the same for me? Does she think that I am so perfect I don’t need an explanation?


He is trying to get the details so that he can put the puzzle together and see what went wrong and where it went wrong. Here is the irony Myrta, you feel attacked by this, but the really he is looking for a way to open up and let you into himself and his life.

Exactly, but Myrta believes the opposite. She rather keep the wall up. This may have worked in the past, but now I need a very special closeness that she refuses to provide. Now I am the insecure one who is needy. Now I am like Myrta was. As I said in another post, I know can see why those who feel insecure are prone to affairs.

He wants that feeling back, so he struggles with the puzzle. It will take awhile longer for him to decide how many missing pieces he really doesn't need to find. You talking with him, being honest with him, in fact considering the question of why? will help him with this decision.

But, Myrta wants everything to be a mystery and I remain confused and empty.

Does this help you see where the struggle is within him? It is not about you as much as it is about what was lost. You have a very important role in all of this, but the absolute biggest is that YOU need to recognize he loves you dearly and above all else he fears losing you. You need to stop fighting that and accept it.

Yes, I don’t want to reach a stage a year or two from now when I am bitter and not willing to seek those answers I desperately want.

Stanley,

You quoted Myrta as saying </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One day I wanted to talk to Myrta about the email where she professed profound love for the OM.

So I ask Myrta: “Do you really mean this stuff you wrote?” Myrta said, “Gee I don’t know. I think I was so involved in the affair that I simply wanted to write something real pretty to see what kind of effect it had on the OM. Or maybe I wanted to justify the affair.”

So then I said to Myrta: “As you know the OM took those words very seriously and he pasted them more than once in the several emails he wrote back when he was pleading with you to take him back. In fact, in one email he questioned the veracity of those words and wondered if you did not mean to say them.”

Suddenly I could see the panic in Myrta’s face and she replied: “I think I really meant to say that! Oh My God, he (the OM) must be suffering thinking that those words were a lie. He needs to know those were my true feelings at the time I wrote them. I have to let him know I was not lying at the time!”

Myrta had already told me the words did not mean anything to her, but wanted those words to be special to the OM. Why is Myrta unable to do the same for me? Does she think that I am so perfect I don’t need an explanation?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When did she say that? Would she say what she said NOW? One thing you need to know is that time is very compressed with regard to what Myrta sees and feels right now. The changes in perspective can be relatively fast, as breakthroughs occur. That is what the "fog" of an affair and coming out of the fog can do.

So if these words were said even a month ago, they may have NO validity NOW.

BUT...you need to face that Myrta deeply loved the OM for some period of her life. The affair lasted over 2 years, and in order to have this affair and not go nuts with guilt, she had to rewrite history. That means you were the "bad" inattentive guy, with NO energy, and OM was great and someone she deeply loved. There that does the trick, the affair is OK. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Seriously, she did love him, and she sure did make LOVE to him, and it was NOT just sex. Can you handle that? You are going to have to, because no matter what you ask, what you say, what she says, it happened, it is part of your life and history until the day you die, not matter what you and Myrta decide to do.

Myrta betrayed you in the worst way, and there is no justification for it, NONE. You know that, I know that, she knows that, everyone here knows that.

Stanley, it is time you started the difficult job of shifting your focus. It would be good if Myrta would help in this, but she may not. Harley comments in his articles and books that it is not uncommon for a WS to not apologize to a BS. I cannot imagine that.

How should the focus shift, I would say first into neutral. Close down the hunt for the missing pieces of the puzzle. Stop and take a breath you have been at this a long time. If you are inclined I would suggest prayer and contemplation. Then gradually as you and Myrta talk, live together, and do the everyday things, a plan needs to be made about how you two want to live your life. What will it take for you to begin to trust some, you must take a small step soon. What can she do to begin to start a new love affair with you, so that your marriage is not in name only?

So many things Stanley, but gradually you must move toward looking at the future with Myrta and she really must decide to join you. "I am sorry" is a wonderful thing for her to say, but it implies NO ACTION, and action is what will be needed.

But, perhaps it is time for you to rest up a bit. Something to think about.

God Bless,

JL

PS: The answer to your question is that she did NOT choose OM because he was opposite of you, that would imply that she thought about you when she did this. My strong guess Stanley, was that you were NOT considered in this, and you were not in the picture. In short, it was NOT about you, so the comparison was meaningless. The comparison only started when the A ended, and you are doing as much as she is.

Myrta -

I just read your other post on another thread about giving OM money. It really made me sad. My husband feels just like you. He says the money he spent on the OW was "our" money, and he deserves to spend it like he sees fit.

Somehow it was like a slap in the face to me to have "our" money spent on him and OW going out wining and dining, followed with an evening of sex in a hotel.

I think you might want to think this through a little more.

JL:

The words made love to OM rather than had sex were difficult on me, but that is the truth!


When did she say that? Would she say what she said NOW? One thing you need to know is that time is very compressed with regard to what Myrta sees and feels right now. The changes in perspective can be relatively fast, as breakthroughs occur. That is what the "fog" of an affair and coming out of the fog can do.
So if these words were said even a month ago, they may have NO validity NOW.

Day after D-day Myrta said she wrote the words for effect.

Three weeks later Myrta said that perhaps the words were true.

Now Myrta said that she probably meant those words, but that obviously she was incorrect, because she does not feel that way now. However, on several occasions during the affair Myrta felt the OM was the love of her life.


BUT...you need to face that Myrta deeply loved the OM for some period of her life. The affair lasted over 2 years, and in order to have this affair and not go nuts with guilt, she had to rewrite history. That means you were the "bad" inattentive guy, with NO energy, and OM was great and someone she deeply loved. There that does the trick, the affair is OK.

She still believes the above. She just reaffirmed that position in another thread. Click below

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=004652;p=4


Seriously, she did love him, and she sure did make LOVE to him, and it was NOT just sex. Can you handle that? You are going to have to, because no matter what you ask, what you say, what she says, it happened, it is part of your life and history until the day you die, not matter what you and Myrta decide to do.
Myrta betrayed you in the worst way, and there is no justification for it, NONE. You know that, I know that, she knows that, everyone here knows that.

I know and this speaks to that ambivalence that hides within me about the whole thing. In a deeper level I long for a relationship without impurities.

Stanley, it is time you started the difficult job of shifting your focus. It would be good if Myrta would help in this, but she may not. Harley comments in his articles and books that it is not uncommon for a WS to not apologize to a BS.

I don't want an apology, however, I have to live with myself for the rest of my life. I need to find peace and the safety I once had. Myrta thinks she is done with this and does not have that much more to say.

So many things Stanley, but gradually you must move toward looking at the future with Myrta and she really must decide to join you. "I am sorry" is a wonderful thing for her to say, but it implies NO ACTION, and action is what will be needed.
But, perhaps it is time for you to rest up a bit. Something to think about.
God Bless,

I am going away for three days to a conference in South Beach. Hopefully I can do some thinking.


PS: The answer to your question is that she did NOT choose OM because he was opposite of you, that would imply that she thought about you when she did this. My strong guess Stanley, was that you were NOT considered in this, and you were not in the picture.

This was just a great opportunity, nothing more.

Stanley,

There is a lot more I could say, but let me ask you a long has it been since you found out?? It is coming up on 6 months right? That is a very hard time for the BS. I don't know why, but many have speculated that it is because the BS begins to feel the marriage will make it, and the WS is sort of back in the game, and so the anger comes out of the BS. Is that you??? It is possible. It is about this time that many questions are asked about the meaning of it all, "is this all", "I don't think I can handle this for the rest of my life.", etc.

Stanley, in most cases it passes and recovery continues and the marriage becomes better.

You commented to one of my comments that </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't want an apology, however, I have to live with myself for the rest of my life. I need to find peace and the safety I once had. Myrta thinks she is done with this and does not have that much more to say.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stanley, whether she has a lot to say or not a lot to say, doesn't matter as does her ACTIONS. She has a lot to do. I agree peace and safety are good things to expect in a marriage, but you to some degree control how much peace there is. Myrta controls how safe you ARE, but how safe you "feel" is sort of up to you. It is still a team sport and she must join the team.

Stanley, I know you want to hurry up and get this sorted out and move on. Myrta wants to move on NOW, yesterday would have been better. The problem there is no moving on from this, there is only healing and decisions in the future. Neither of you can run from this. So slow down a bit, and recharge your batteries, let this sit for a bit, and enjoy your life. Play some golf (I wish I could join you in that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ), go to a good movie, read a good book, savor the life you have a bit.

I think as you do, the proper course of action will come to you, the proper things to say.

I don't think Myrta is an emotional or mental light weight. I think despite her sort of wanting to blow this off, she is deep enough emotionally and intellectually to understand what has happened to this marriage, and to each of you. She may not want to face it but she has the mental horsepower to do so, and actually resolve many of your issues, once she finally comes out of the fog and faces this. Have some patience OK?

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

Stanley,

I came back to remind you of something else. I know you are focused on these past two years. But, you also need to focus on the previous years of your marriage as well. They out number these two, and they do have meaning in your life, and your decisions.

Balance Stanley, it is about balance. You will get it, just hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

JUST LEARNING <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I Think that the words that you choose to describe my feelings, are too harsh for my husband's ears. I really cannot continue this. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Yes, maybe I did love the OM, BUT THE LOVE LASTED ONLY WHILE THE AFFAIR WAS GOING ON!!!! I am in another wave now. I know I have hurt my husband deeply, but no matter what I say or do, time, and only time will make my husband heal and feel better about himself. Like YOU said, when I had the Affair, I was no thinking about my husband. I was only thinking about my sexual gratification!!! I completely erased from my mind, my whole family. That was the only way to do this!!! Not to feel bad about myself. Yes, I know I was doing something horrible, but I could not stop myself from doing it. Nothing else mattered at that time.
But, time has passed, almost 4 months since my last physical encounter with HIM. I see things differently now. I dont think I was in love with him, I was in LUST with him. LOVE is what I have with my husband, SPECIAL relation is what I have with my husband, SOUL MATES, is what I have with my husband. He practically raised me!!! The FEW "good values" that I have MY HUSBAND, taught them to me. Not my parents, but my HUSBAND. OF course he is special to me, of course I want to keep my marriage another 30 years.
But the sad thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> is that because of the 'TRUTHS" that you point to him over and over again, he cannot go thru this. He accuses me ALL THE TIME!!! I cannot go on, been punished over and over by his accusations of being fake to him, of not feeling love for him, of staying with him, because I am ashamed of the OM. I AM HERE WITH HIM, BECAUSE I DO LOVE HIM> Maybe it is difficult for me, to be normal, to give him, what he wants, but can't he also see my side? I feel like CRAP!!! I AM ASHAMED of what I did to US!!! I cannot undo this "s..."! I have to live with this for the rest of my life!!!! I dont need constant reminders of what I did!!! I have a CONCIENCE!!! Maybe before I didn't or chose to ignore it, but NOW I DO!!!!
He thinks that because of my undying LOVE for the OM, I am going to resume CONTACT with him!! I AM NOT!!! I WILL DEFINETELY NOT!!! Only If I was crazy and want more self inflicted punishment would do that!
Even if YOU and HIM dont think it, I am doing the best I know how!!! I cannot do anything else, I am doing the best I can!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I want us to get better , more at ease with each other, that he trusts me again, and I trust him too. But everything has to flow naturally, I know is contradictory, because there is nothing natural now. But, this "choppy waters" have to run their course!
I DONT think I am going to POST anymore, JL. Your posts are too intense and they scare me. They make me angry , sad, remorsful. I dont want any more of those feelings, I already have enough with my self, I already have enough GUILT screaming inside of me. I DONT NEED YOU TO REMIND ME, ALONG WITH MY HUSBAND!!
thank you FOR HELPING US!!
MYRTA

BELIEVER <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I AM really sorry I made you feel bad from what I said. You have to understand we the BAD spouses, dont think clearly when we are doing this!!!
But the point that I was trying to make, was that my husband refered to the money as HIS money not OUR money!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Of course I know he is the one that works and brings the money home, but.......I thought after so many years of marriage it was not HIS money anymore but OURS!
Again, forgive me if I made you feel bad!! Did not mean to!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Myrta

Myrta,

Calm down, I know what I am saying to Stanley is hard on him. I know it. However, what we are trying to get at is that once he faces some "truths" about this he will be able to accept just what you have stated here. He needs to talk about this, get it out, sort of lance the boil, and then he will see what you are saying.

Myrta, have patience, this takes awhile and it does take a lot of talking. Permit me to respond to a few things you said. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">that because of the 'TRUTHS" that you point to him over and over again, he cannot go thru this. He accuses me ALL THE TIME!!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta, he MUST face these things. At this point it is not about you, but about him facing this and realizing it happened, and that part cannot be changed. But, what can be changed is the future with you. Myrta, he has NOTHING to accuse you of now. Don't you see this? You are doing as well as you can, and it only includes HIM. So let him vent, but realize it is just that. He needs you to be calm right now. You guys are still early in this.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I cannot go on, been punished over and over by his accusations of being fake to him, of not feeling love for him, of staying with him, because I am ashamed of the OM. I AM HERE WITH HIM, BECAUSE I DO LOVE HIM></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta, keep telling him this, it will get through to him. He has HIS defenses up right now, just as you did. You must not defend, just keep telling him and showing him you love him. The anger will fade, you are far too persuasive for him to resist you for long. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Maybe it is difficult for me, to be normal, to give him, what he wants, but can't he also see my side? I feel like CRAP!!! I AM ASHAMED of what I did to US!!! I cannot undo this "s..."! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">precisely, that is what I am telling him. You cannot undo it, neither can he. It is all about what you two decide to make of this. I know you feel bad and so does he. He is just wondering if you feel as bad as he is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Of course he is going to feel pretty embarrassed when he realizes he is hurting you, in a manner similar to the way he accused you of hurting him after d-day.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to live with this for the rest of my life!!!! I dont need constant reminders of what I did!!! I have a CONCIENCE!!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, Myrta, time out. It has only been four months. Here is something I am sure of: Neither of you could or can stand to remain where you are right now. It will change and it will get much better, and I think that Stanley will cease throwing this in your face in the next few months. Have patience Myrta, he like you will change. It is coming. Hang on. I am glad that you have a conscience and so is Stanley.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Maybe before I didn't or chose to ignore it, but NOW I DO!!!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So is the fog clearing Myrta? I do believe it might be. Good for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He thinks that because of my undying LOVE for the OM, I am going to resume CONTACT with him!! I AM NOT!!! I WILL DEFINETELY NOT!!! Only If I was crazy and want more self inflicted punishment would do that!
Even if YOU and HIM dont think it, I am doing the best I know how!!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta, please reread what I wrote. I don't think you are in love with OM now. I know you were in love with OM during the affair. He has to face this, but he has to also decide to realize that while in the fog, things are different than out of the fog, and you are coming out of it, if you are not mostly out of it. That is why I asked him about the timing of the comments of yours he relayed. But, he does have to face reality and decide to accept it as something that happened in the past.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I cannot do anything else, I am doing the best I can!!! I want us to get better , more at ease with each other, that he trusts me again, and I trust him too. But everything has to flow naturally, I know is contradictory, because there is nothing natural now. But, this "choppy waters" have to run their course!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, you are right, and these are "choppy waters", keep doing the "best you can" and I am sure things are going to work out.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I DONT think I am going to POST anymore, JL. Your posts are too intense and they scare me. They make me angry , sad, remorsful. I dont want any more of those feelings, I already have enough with my self,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do hope you do post some more. But please understand these last few posts are meant to be "intense" for your H not you. I am pushing him abit, so that he will really address how much and what he needs to know to move on and start to heal from this. I know you don't want any more of those feeling, but I am afraid they will be there for awhile longer. However, if you need comfort, ask your H to do so. If he doesn't let me know and I will get the 2x4 out and use it on him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I already have enough GUILT screaming inside of me. I DONT NEED YOU TO REMIND ME, ALONG WITH MY HUSBAND!!
thank you FOR HELPING US!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah, you have used the words guilt and remorse in the last few sentences. Can I offer you something to think about. Please don't feel guilty. Guilt is what you feel if you are about to or are doing something wrong. It is an emotion meant to stop an action before or while it is going on.

Myrta, you are NOT doing anything wrong now, and you have nothing to feel guilty about. So please stop it. It is paralyzing you and freezing your feelings and actions.

Now remorse is something you should feel. It is the response to something done in error. It is an emotion that leads to actions, corrective actions and it will not drain you or paralyze you as does guilt. Please please lose the guilt Myrta. It doesn't help you, and it does not help Stanley. You are NOT doing anything to feel guilty about. You are trying to start the process of rebuilding this marriage.

I am going to be out of touch the next day or so, but I will do my best to check back. In my last post I requested that your H step back abit, and let things settle down. I hope that you two can do this together. Hang in there Myrta, with your help this will get better.

God Bless,

JL

JL

Myrta, he MUST face these things. At this point it is not about you, but about him facing this and realizing it happened, and that part cannot be changed. But, what can be changed is the future with you. Myrta, he has NOTHING to accuse you of now. Don't you see this? You are doing as well as you can, and it only includes HIM. So let him vent, but realize it is just that. He needs you to be calm right now. You guys are still early in this.

I did get somewhat emotional and I let Myrta know how I felt. However, I made it clear that I had forgiven her and that I was 100% committed to stay married. In think Myrta tends to think I am simply looking for the way out. On the contrary I am looking for the way in------ I want to stay married! I had no confusion or fog or withdrawal or whatever I am 100% sure I love her. But, that is not enough. I have to feel happy with my decision. Otherwise sooner or later I will find an excuse to change my mind. I explained this to Myrta very carefully. I need to feel good about myself, about what she did, and about our future. I don’t want this to linger until I die.

Of course he is going to feel pretty embarrassed when he realizes he is hurting you, in a manner similar to the way he accused you of hurting him after d-day.

When I have an argument or words it is never my intention to hurt Myrta or anyone else for that matter. I simply seek that state of peace where I don’t question myself constantly. I now envy those who have marriages without this problem. I now look at my life in terms of before and after the affair. Even thou retrospectively the two years before D-day were not that good. I chalked that up to age and the fact that Myrta reaffirmed that she had change and needed less sex. She also stopped complaining she seem quite happy and full of energy. However, I knew something was not right. My problem is that I was not that needy or greedy.

I think that Stanley will cease throwing this in your face in the next few months.

Actually I have been doing much better in that regard, but there are triggers. Today your post was the last drop. However it all probably started this Am when In read Myrta’s post to Aussie and her defense of the OM in another thread. She has now made it quite clear she defends the OM to defend herself. I will also be gone for a couple of days, but I suspect there will be plenty of computers where I am going.

Myrta -

I know that you didn't want to make me feel bad. But I did. In our case, we both work outside of the home. We had many, many trials raising our children. I have been to hundreds of PTA meetings, teacher conferences, doctor, and dentist appointments, and on and on. And I do not regret that.

However, I always planned that when the kids got on their own, my husband and I would enjoy the fruits of our labors.

But what happened was that he hooked up with OW. He took "our" money to spend on her. His story is that he worked as hard as I did, and now he deserves what he wants.

To my way of thinking, the marital assets should be spent on the marriage, the children, and things that both partners agree on.

All in all what happened to us is that the OW is reaping the benefits of our labor. She and WH had only hooked up for 2 months, and together they went through our life savings.

And then, in his fog, he tells me that the OW is not interested in money at all. Hmmmm. You could have fooled me.

Believer----I think your case and my case in respect to money is very different. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I have not spent thousands of dollars in the OM, never planned to do that. I just helped him once with his hotel stay. A couple of hundred dollars!!!
I never made plans with him to go off and spend my husband's money.
Of course I do see your point. and also my husband's. That is money to be spent in US, not on affairs. That is ugly, yes! But it is done. The only thing I can do, is write him and tell him to refund me the money! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
I am not posting here anymore!!!
Thank you for everything!
Myrta

Myrta dear -

I hope you will keep posting here. You and your husband are doing very well. Even though the two of you don't think so.

Your sit and mine are completely different. My WH has continued his affair. I am to the point where I still love him, but hope he is better off with OW.

Please do not give up on us. There are many, many OW who don't post anymore. I hope that you will continue to come here. I am getting very close to you.

I am sure Myrta will come back!

I am off to a conference for a couple of days, but I am sure they have internet where I am going.

Somehow, I don't think Myrta was 100% into the affair, perhaps 90%. That is why it was a no brainier for her to leave the OM and stay married. For many other WWs that is not the case.

I see why Myrta and many other WWs defend the OM, they are defending themselves. But, for us attacking the OM is our only outlet. I cannot attack Myrta because she is my wife and I love her. So in the end I have no one else to attack, but the OM. And all WWs defend the OM when in the fog.

How I wish I did not have this contamination in my marriage!

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Stanley and Myrta -

I would like to see you make an appointment to talk to the Harleys or Penny at SYMC. You are so close to working this out, I think the professional approach would work very quickly.

Myrta - I do hope you will post here while your husband is gone.

Seriously, she did love him, and she sure did make LOVE to him, and it was NOT just sex. Can you handle that? You are going to have to.

I was thinking about why you challenged me this way. I must say it was quite shocking to face the situation as you described it and it brought back (for an instant) the ambivalence I had shortly after D-day.

I truly believe my brain chemistry is changed in a manner not that different from a person having an affair. In a sense I want to do whatever to keep Myrta and seem obsessed with her. Tonight I am in a Cyber Café in South Beach and I miss her a lot. I sort of want to call and hear her voice all the time.

So the question is:

1. What can happen if my brain chemistry reverses back to normal and I have not resolved all these issues that drive me crazy?
2. Will I enter a bitter stage with no more passion to fix the marriage?
3. Is that why you challenged me now rather than later?

CIAO!