Hi y'all. I'm just really down today. No real reason that I can come up with. My wife got back from her trip to see the OM with no real change in her attitude or demeanor. She still seems withdrawn, but hasn't told me of any decisions (to divorce or not to divorce, that is the question that holds my life in the balance).<P>I think that's one of the biggest things that's tearing at me right now. The single most important thing in my life is my family. I'm fully committed to it, would sacrifice anything for it. But my wife holds it in the palm of her hand and won't let me in on where we stand. This sucks. It hurts...a lot.<P>I guess I just need some sort of a lift right now. <P>Thanks,<P>------------------<BR>Bill<BR>~~~~<BR>Remember the truth that once was spoken, "To love another person is to see the face of God."

Bill - I know where you are. It's like they're holding our families hostage for some unknown demand - in a way, the cruelest form of extortion but they won't even tell us want they want. Maybe not a perfect analogy. but it does hurt and it sucks. Bill, you're not alone. Keep your chin up and fight with the rest of us. We have the moral high ground.<P>WAT

wld:<P>If you're not on antidepressants yet, you'll help yourself quite a bit by getting on them for this ride. They'll help level down the mood swings you're feeling, and aid you in a consistant effort to deal with the affair.<P>I've been exactly where you stand now, and it does suck. And hurt. And it's unfair. Get to a doctor, and see if they can help you with some meds. And if you're not doing marriage counseling now---it's a great time to start (of course, it'll be without your wife).

Thanks to both of you.<P>To be honest, just typing up the first post helped my mood a lot. It's amazing how just getting the words out can make a difference.<P>K, I haven't talked to my doc about the meds yet, although I've considered it. I'm not sure why I'm so resistant to the idea. I'm a nurse, so I tent to make a lousy patient.<BR>

Bill being the person tht I am I would ask her what is happening. I feel you really need to know where you stand otherwise it will tear you apart.<P>Remember plane A is about looking after yourself. Finding out where you and your family stand is looking after yourself. The answer may/will hurt or could even be a lie, as in my case, this happened numerous times, but at least you will get her talking.<P>Take care of yourself Bill we are here for you <BR>Rosey

Dear Bill,<P>You sound terribly stressed. I almost cracked up from the uncertainty of withdrawel, so I can only imagine what you are going through.<P>For me, after eight months of terrible uncertainty, I finally reached a point at which I felt that I would survive and be happy, whether or not my wife committed to our marriage. Perhaps it was only that I had suffered so much by then that divorce and a split family sounded pleasent by comparison. Or perhaps I finally learned to accept that the fate of my family was not in my own control, and that I should simply do my best, and then exit gracefully if it didn't work. <P>I think that is what the entire marriage builders program is really about. Not saving your marriage, but learning about your own contribution to relationships, fixing your marriage as far as lies within your own power, allowing adequete time for your spouse to adjust to your changes, and then leaving if your spouse refuses to be part of it. But leaving with self-respect and few regrets, because you have done what you could.<P>I needed a lot of counselling to reach that point. For a very long time, I imagined the worst possible outcome to be divorce. It isn't. The worst possible outcome would be for the hell you are going through now to last forever (or get worse).<P>I am not sure how to get this point across. It is subtle and difficult. You said that your wife holds the fate of your family in the palm of her hand. That she is the one with all of the power. Somehow, you need to see your life differently. I certainly viewed my own marriage the same way, and so did my wife. She openly said that she had the power in the relationship, because as a stay-at-home Mom she would not lose custody of our children, and because I still loved her. That view was a terrible trap for both of us. It made me terribly depressed, constantly calculating alternatives and judging our interactions, and it prevented her from looking at reality and facing it, instead of continuing to hide. (I am guessing about her inner motivations, of course). <P>The reality is that both of you hold the fate of your family in your hands. You can each try to make your marriage work, or you can each decide on a divorce. Do not give up your own power, because that prevents her from facing reality. But do not exercise your power recklessly either. I would agree with K that you should begin therapy, and that you should carefully define boundaries that you need respected in your marriage, and determine how you can act to ensure that they are respected, without making demands or threats. And all the time you are doing this, talk and listen and be as close to your wife as she will allow. Of course, I have no idea if these approaches will work.<P>And smile. Compared to most people on these boards, you have many factors that suggest a positive outcome is possible. Even your wife's depression and withdrawel. She clearly recognizes that this state of affairs can't go on indefinitely anymore, and is very confused.<P>I wish you all the best in this New Year,<P>StillTrying

Dear Bill,<P>One more thought. I don't know if it will help or not. There isn't really much that does help.<P>Most of us here have spent a lot of time thinking and ruminating about the chaos we have been living. And you will read lots of letters laughing or crying about the awful things done by someone in "the fog."<P>My own take on this is that a wayward spouse, deliberately or unconsciously, begins an affair. The difficult thing to understand is what comes next. The stress of loving and desiring two contradictory things, of having your future seem completely unsettled, and of constantly lying to and hurting those around you, those who deserve better, is extremely destructive to those engaging in an affair. Some people seem to break down completely. Their ideas change rapidly, they contantly try to hide from or justify actions that cannot be hidden from or justified, and slowly lose that sense of who they are and what they stand for that is essential for life.<P>It is extremely sad to see this happen to someone you love. But you are caught in the crossfire as your wife goes through this. Just remember that she will again be the person you know and love, once she is out of this situation. But that the period of recovery might not be short.<P>Your wife seems to have conducted her affair with more integrity than most people I have read about. It might not seem that way to you, but that speaks highly of her. Your most important job is to hold yourself and your family together while she works this out, without enabling her actions in any way.<P>And there is light, eventually. My own wife is a wonderful woman. Talented, considerate, beautiful (maybe we all say that about our wives). And she has survived abuse and betrayal and suffering that would destroy many other people, and come out of it with wisdom and integrity. She is thriving right now, and we are both facing new challenges and growing together. I wish the best for you and your family as well.<P>StillTrying

Thanks Still. You're making a lot of sense. In fact this is just the kind of ideas I need right now. I keep seeing her as mean and thoughtless. And while there is some truth to that, I do still respect her in many ways. She grew up in some horrible conditions, and yet she's still mostly sane (just in the fog right now).<P>Thanks again for that perspective.<P>------------------<BR>Bill<BR>~~~~<BR>Remember the truth that once was spoken, "To love another person is to see the face of God."

Hey Bill<P>At least know you're not alone. My W is still with the OM 1,000 miles away and says (via e-mail) that she feels "uncomfortable" there. Apparently not uncomfortable enough to come home. I have refused to talk to her on the phone, because she would begin to share her experiences with me, as friends do, and I couldn't stand it. I hope your W did not bring and "mementos" of her trip back with her. I told my W before she left that I simply would not tolerate and of that kind of stuff in OUR house!<P>After 2 weeks, today I had to go back to work and felt almost normal. Then, as I was diving home, almost automatically I thought the hey, I better call W and let her know I'm on my way home. Then it hit me all over again! God, I know it's hard Bill, and if it wasn't for this board and our mutual support, I don't think I could make it.<P>Be the strong one and so will I<P>Mike

My situation is different in some ways, but similar in others. My wife had an EA (with a side dish of phone sex) with a guy she worked with. After a lot of MB'ing on my part and a family crisis (her mother nearly died) she has decided to stay and has ended things with OM.<P>Now, I have discovered what marriage can be and have been making changes to my habits and learning new things. But I'M THE ONLY ONE. When I carefully ask her how she is feeling about things or ask that we talk about our relationship, she won't. She has "too much on her mind" or is "too stressed out about work" or something. I believe her, but it makes me feel like second (or tenth) fiddle.<P>There are some good signs, but I am the only one contributing. I know I need to be more patient. I like you am firmly comitted to our relationship and family, but it is D*&N frustrating when you don't know where you stand.<P>Thanks for letting me rant. I know I need to go back to filling her EN's and keeping my "Taker" in the background.<P>Bill

I know what you mean about the TAKER. I'm dying to get a few of my needs met, but I know that won't happen. How do you (or I) do things to meet her EN when she won't even tell you (or me) what they are. I'm trying to give her what she needs, but what she says she needs right now is for me to get out of her face and leave her alone. I posted a message in General Questions II about the latest. She told me she wants to seperate. I understand the concepts of plan A, but I think I'm missing some tangeables. Support her, but how. What are some activities, some tangible things I can do throughout the day that will show my love for her, but not seem like "kissing [censored]" (her words by the way).<P>------------------<BR>Bill<BR>~~~~<BR>Remember the truth that once was spoken, "To love another person is to see the face of God."

It was not too hard for me to guess at the top 2 or 3. My wife and I had both become VERY withdrawn. I know she needs conversation and I was not giving her much of my ear. She needs to feel loved, so I really worked on my affection output. She also needs to have help around the house. I was very weak here too and have made a 180 in this area.<P>I'm not sure how to find out your W's EN's, but if you don't have His needs / Her needs I would get one and start reading. This book sort of solidified my somewhat nebulous thoughts.<P>Bill

Bill<P>I feel for you as I am in exactly the same situation. W returned from a visit to the OM who lives 2000 miles away.<P>On her return she was very quiet and doesn't reveal much of her intentions. Prior to her departure she was all over me like a rash.<P>I know it is hard as like yourself my family is of the utmost importance to me and I would do anything to have them back. <P>It is so hard to be patient when you have all the answers but the WS is so deep in the fog they can't see any logic whatsoever. <P>However we all know how they like to be "enlightened" or "straightened out". So you just have to be patient and Plan A as best as you can. The fog hopefully will eventually lift and sanity prevail. <P>Hang in there Bill.<P>Colin

Bill,<P>Thanks for the head up. I went to the library this weekend and picked up "Surviving an Affair" and one other of Harley's books. I couldn't get my hands on His Needs/Her Needs, but I'll get my butt in gear and find it.<P>Colin,<P>Your thoughts and support are VERY helpful. Thanks for sharing your perspective. It's posts like yours (and most any post) that really help lift spirits and help get me through the day.<P>------------------<BR>Bill<BR>~~~~<BR>Remember the truth that once was spoken, "To love another person is to see the face of God."