I am the WS (WW). My H, the BS, is still undecided about our marriage. I want to write him a modified plan B letter before I move out next week.

Here's a summary (I'll try to keep it short):

I had a brief affair (2 nights of SF) with my H's BF. My H ended up listening outside the door the first time and didn't let on. The 2nd time he listened again and didn't let on. About 2 weeks later, I got angry at him for not spending any time alone with me (and had been spending so much time with a female friend and coworker), and kaboom, d-day, he told me why, and we were instantly separated (he'd been planning this).

Since then, he lived in the basement, and I lived upstairs in June. After a nasty blowout about a week into this, he went to live with the female friend/coworker for about 2 weeks in her 1 bedroom apt. Then he came home and continued living in the basement for the rest of June. His social hours continued to be with the female coworker/friend for the most part. Then in July we took separate vacations (for about 3 weeks).

Then in Aug. we spent 5 days "trying" to be a married couple. My H's approach to this was sleep with me at night, have SF, and then go spend his days with the female coworker most of the time. He wasn't willing to spend daytime hours with me yet. Said I should accept sleeping together as progress.

Incidentally, he told me that I would have to be friends (not just be civil, but FRIENDS) with the female coworker/friend. I pretty much consider his relationship to be an EA. I told him fine, I would be. Since then, I've changed my mind. It's either her or me.

Getting back on track...after the 5 nights sleeping together, my H's family figured things out from the bits and pieces they'd been told or learned from my brother-in-laws; that I cheated on him and lied about it and had to be confronted. They told him to leave me. So, no more trying, H moved back into basement, and we wrote up a separation agreement. Then he went on a fishing trip with his family. He's still on that trip until the day I move out. I'm moving out on the 24th of Aug. I don't want to live in a house of broken dreams, so he can have it, I want an apt.

But, now we've said we'll try living apart for 2-3 months and then revisit whether we should end things or try again.

He thinks he's told me to leave and I'm leaving. I came back from my solo vacation with the intention of moving out if he wasn't really willing to try at this marriage to save my own sanity (I can't live in the same house as a man who avoids me at all costs, but tries to request SF regularly), so I feel it's my decision to leave.

SO, FINALLY GETTNG TO THE POINT, I want to write my H a sort of Plan B letter. I want to let him know that there will be no contact unless it's an emergency or there's a financial issue to deal with. But I'm not ready to tell him "her or me". I'd rather avoid that.

HERE'S THE QUESTION: Since several folks have suggested that I write a modified Plan B letter, what should I write in the modified Plan B letter?

(If my story confused you, search for my other posts, it's a long and convoluted tale).

Jen

BUMP!

Any ideas for what to put in a modified plan B letter?

Hi Jen,

Gee, the short story is you had sex (multiple) with husband’s BF, then he retaliates by ignoring you for a coworker? Maybe PA, but certainly EA? And now the plan is a 2-3 month separation? Did either of you ever get around to talking about why you wandered to the BF? An issue of EN’s , or Protection missing? As a BS of wife that had a 2-1/2 yr affair with a good friend of mine, I can tell you that he’s probably hurt beyond your wildest imagination, by the thought of you being with his BF. We’re eight months past D-day and no contact, and working toward recovery, and I still struggle with these thoughts.

I don’t know. I just cannot see the purpose of Plan B now. Are you in contact at all with OM? Did that end with a no-contact letter. And then, at that point, a Recovery Agreement (read in SAA), is a very good place for both of you to commit to working through this. Your Plan B now just seems like a contract for the two of you to start dating.

I probably missed a whole bunch. I also don’t go for the “modified” Plan B things either though. To me, it’s either Plan A, or if the changes have been made and the Love Bank drained, then it’s Plan B. We’re either working on the marriage full tilt, or we’re separated (Plan B) for Protecting our own Love Bank. Yes, and Plan B says to him “you can’t have us both, so when you end things and are ready to commit to our marriage, then you know where I am.” But, there’s also some amends required from you.

P

persistant,

Thanks for trying to make sense of my situation!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did either of you ever get around to talking about why you wandered to the BF? An issue of EN’s , or Protection missing? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, if I tried to suggest anything other than my own weakness or inability to stop things when I should have, my H would get furious, fast. He feels that he was and is pretty much a perfect husband (he even says so). He will not consider that anything he did was a cause, or even remotely related to the affair.

Although.... the month leading up to the A was a hectic one, and we had very little time alone together. We were both working a lot, his mom went through breast cancer surgery (successful, but stressful nonetheless), we spent lots of time with his family, or if we had some down time, we went out drinking with friends (including his FBF and his female colleague/friend). I made it worse by going away one weekend to see my girlfriends and go skiing. My H likes to say that I went and had an affair after his mom had breast cancer, I should've expected less attention from him during such an event, and that's about as selfish as anyone can get. I can definitely see his point. I'm a selfish #$*ch. I know. I just wish I could've seen that before I let the A start.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don’t know. I just cannot see the purpose of Plan B now. Are you in contact at all with OM? Did that end with a no-contact letter. And then, at that point, a Recovery Agreement (read in SAA), is a very good place for both of you to commit to working through this. Your Plan B now just seems like a contract for the two of you to start dating. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I haven't been in contact with OM since the end of June. I do have to return to work at the end of next week, and will see him then, but plan to avoid him like the plague. Nope, there wasn't a no-contact letter.

I will have to get going on reading SAA, I just received it in the mail last week. I want to know more about this "Recovery Agreement". Can you give me a short version? Or a page number?

I guess we're not really entering a Plan B. Neither of us told the other one, "Get out until you end all contact with him/her." We've just agreed to live apart to: a) see if we can do it (if we'll miss each other), b) think things over with some objectivity, c) give things some time to heal.

My H likes to say that he will start dating if the opportunity presents itself. I've told him I won't be doing anything of the sort.

Now I'm beginning to think again that he wanted me to cheat so he could go out and see if he could find someone better. Or at least he sees this as a golden opportunity to do so. Do I dare to tell him, "Don't you dare start dating!"? So far I've just repeated over and over that we are still married, just separated, and I am not going to go out dating when I still love my H. I may have broken our wedding vows, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> To me, it’s either Plan A, or if the changes have been made and the Love Bank drained, then it’s Plan B. We’re either working on the marriage full tilt, or we’re separated (Plan B) for Protecting our own Love Bank. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am continuing to plan A my H whenever we are in contact. And, I am moving out to protect myself. I can't handle my H being unkind and avoiding me like the plague in the same house. Maybe this is the plan B thing that caused some folks to suggest a modified plan B??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I have to read SAA this week, immediately, I can tell.

Jen

IMHO,

Plan A. Plan A. Plan A. Plan A. Plan A.

If you want to be married to your husband.

Plan A. Plan A. Plan A. Plan A. Plan A.

Make a call to the Harley's asap. You can Plan A from a distance even if he is not there.

Don't get upset at him at all. Don't LB. Show him that you are sorry, can change and meet his needs and will be 100% honest so it will never happen again.

I agree with the other poster, unless you've done so or can't stop yourself from LBing all the time, you should not go to Plan B so soon.

Read up more on this website as well.

Just my humble opinion.

Here's the thing. I am moving out on Sat. There's no getting around that. A lease has been signed. My H doesn't want me here. He's not willing to work on the marriage at this point. I can't handle living in the same house as him (in separate bedrooms) when all he does is ignore or avoid me at all costs, refuse to tell me where he goes or what he does (for the most part) and then try asking for sex (I want emotional intimacy first, thanks!).

Now I just need to decide what to do about how much and what kind of contact my H and I have while living apart. As much as he is willing to give? Then he's in full control. I want to make him realize what it's like to be without me so he can see how important I was to him. So then I feel like minimal contact is smarter (which felt like a plan B approach - without the implied "drop the OP or else"). I want to use the whole "absence makes the heart grow fonder" psychology on him.

That's it. I need to decide how much and what kind of contact I want and am comfortable with my H and I having while we live apart for 2-3 months, or maybe less.

I'm so tempted to tell my H that I'll come home whenever he's ready for me to do so. But who says he won't continue avoiding me and just want to take me to bed? Then I think we should try dating before I move home.

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!
I guess I won't figure it all out at 2:30 in the morning. Time to try to go to sleep.

Any ideas?

Jen

PS: I'm going to also make this same post under "recovery": "My husband doesn't love me anymore, now what?"

Hi Jen,

I'm doing well, H is gone and it is peaceful here. Thanks for your support.

Ok, here's what I'm seeing.

Your H had this "friend" for quite a while. You mention that you often did things together. Were they spending lots of time together before his mom's surgery?

Either way, it's almost a given that he has been having at least an EA with her for a long time. And there's pretty much no doubt in my mind that it became physical right about the time that he overheard you and OM.

Now, he is moving back into your house and you are moving to an apt. Correct?

You'll get much advice about doing Plan A. But frankly most women can't do a good Plan A for very long when their H's are involved with an OW. Which he is.

Also it sounds like there are some anger issues involved as well. Talk to me about that. Does he make demands, is he disrespectful, how violent do the outbursts become?

You can do Plan A in a letter and go directly to Plan B. The fact that you do not have children together and that you have been living non-connected lives for quite some time make the whole thing more difficult.

A recovery agreement is a good thing to know about, but you have some steps to take before you get to that part.

1. Put some kind of Plan A into motion. As I said, it can be as simple as a letter. I can help you with this.

2. If your energy level is good, and you still have feelings for your H we can work on ways to do this Plan A for a while. Theoretically it would be best if you were living together, but I want to hear about the anger issues first. Also tell me about the conditions of the lease.

3. If/when Plan A is not effective WITHIN A SET TIME PERIOD... PLAN A IS NOT A LIFESTYLE CHOICE.... then you will do a Plan B. I can help you with that also.

4. When his A is ended BEFORE you move back in, it is essential that you have a recovery agreement, plans for how it will work, and that it be implemented. If you just jump back together before that happens, it is unlikely that your marriage will survive. I can help you with this also.

Jen, yes there are things that you did wrong. Obviously the A with his friend. And more than that I would guess that he had needs that were not being met. None of that makes what he is doing ok. There are lots of reasons that we all find to have an A (I did in my 1st M) but there are NO EXCUSES.

So, it's not just the OW that we need to address. It's LBers, EN's and creating a lifestyle that makes you both happy at the same time, and that is inter-dependent.

Generally speaking, I don't leave my little corner of MB anymore. But the things that happened at home kind of forced me to take refuge over here in your part of the world. Thanks again for jumping so quickly with comfort and support. I'd be happy to help you get through this.

C

Crier,

I am so glad to hear that you are all right, and in fact enjoying the peace in your home without your H.

You are an amazing person - you are going through so much - and yet you are offering me such detailed and helpful support. I am so thankful for you!!!

I warn you, my post is going to be long in order to reply to your questions, but it will be worth it to receive more of your wisdom!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Your H had this "friend" for quite a while. You mention that you often did things together. Were they spending lots of time together before his mom's surgery? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Together - the three of us? What we did together was go out to the bar on Fri./Sat. nights in a larger group of friends, or go to movies as a group. It was not common for just the 3 of us to do stuff. They were exercising together before the surgery. I was too busy to exercise with my H, and it was convenient for them to do so, at lunch time or right after work, etc. So they were spending a fair amount of time together before the surgery. Once the exercising led to a real friendship, then they did more things together. (Sounds like the Kevin and Amy case on pg. 53 of SAA.....)

What had me mad back then was my H started doing things for her that generally only boyfriends do in my opinion. For example, he went shopping with her to help her buy a cell phone. I got upset at this and told him so, he brushed me aside, and pretty much said tough, she's a woman she needed my help, or she never would've gotten such a good deal on a cell phone.

Another thing that really angered me was one night a bunch of people were getting together at our house, and he went to the other side of the city to pick her up, because "the snowy and icy roads were too dangerous for her to navigate in her little car" that she recently inherited from her brother who passed away in the fall. We had a bit of a blowout over that one. I couldn't stand to watch him be so protective of her. I even told her what I thought. He defended his actions, defended her, she defended him, no one would acknowledge that there was anything wrong with it, except my girlfriends. Okay, I'm rambling,I am sorry, I get really angry when I think about her.

The other thing was that when we went out to the bar as a group, inevitably she'd get very drunk and then start to get extremely emotional over the loss of her brother, and then guess who'd run to comfort her? Often she'd end up back at our place, down in the guest room, and my H would go down there and talk to her for a long time to comfort her, and usually also fall asleep down there next to her. I'd be upstairs alone in our bedroom, seething. But, I didn't go raise hell because how do you tell someone to stop comforting someone over a recently deceased (Sept.) loved one??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Either way, it's almost a given that he has been having at least an EA with her for a long time. And there's pretty much no doubt in my mind that it became physical right about the time that he overheard you and OM. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I feel that it's an EA, but my H feels they are just friends and I drove them to being closer friends through my actions. I actually have some doubt that their relationship is physical because it would interfere with my H's love of being a martyr and being able to tell everyone he's the victim. If he went and had a PA with her, and I told everyone, his little world would be shattered. I doubt he'd do anything to risk that. He seems to LOVE having higher moral ground than me. My H's attitude is that so long as there's no physical touching, talking for hours, even lying next to each other in the same bed and talking for hours, and sleeping next to each other is fine if things don't get physical. Bull.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Now, he is moving back into your house and you are moving to an apt. Correct? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, he only lived with her for 2 weeks in June. He's been living here ever since, save for vacations. Right now he is on a family fishing trip (he hasn't been here since Aug. 8th). He comes home Sat. late in the day, intentionally to avoid crossing paths with me and the moving process. Coward doesn't want to witness it. Originally he was forcing me to move twice, first moving my stuff to my parents' garage, and then 2nd to my apt., just so he could come home a few days sooner. He wanted me out before he got home. When I managed to get possession of my apt. for this Sat., and not Sept. 1st, he actually gave in and said fine, only move once, I'll just wait to come home until Saturday late in the day.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Also it sounds like there are some anger issues involved as well. Talk to me about that. Does he make demands, is he disrespectful, how violent do the outbursts become? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From the previous paragraph, you can see he makes demands. Also, I keep a journal. One of the first things I wrote in it the other night, after coming home late from a girlfriend's house was, "It's kind of nice to not be afraid of getting in trouble when I get home." I do a lot of things out of fear that my H will get angry. I clean the house out of fear he'll get angry. I may not go spend time very often with certain friends that he's not crazy about for fear he'll get angry. But, don't get me wrong here, it's not like he's a screamer or physically violent. I just can't stand to ever have him angry with me, even if the only manifestation of his anger is a brief remark like, "I can't believe you are sitting on the couch in front of the tv when the kitchen is a mess," or "I don't know what you see in Susan, or how you can spend so much time with her. I was just sitting around here by myself all night."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 1. Put some kind of Plan A into motion. As I said, it can be as simple as a letter. I can help you with this. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A in a letter? Never heard of that. Thought it was only effective if spouse didn't know it was a conscious plan. My H would make fun of me, and say something to degrade the fact that I have been reading books and some crazy website and following its principles hoping to save my marriage, when I should simply have never had an affair in the first place. He may not use those exact words, but he would make fun of MB, I'm fairly sure. I've tried to get him to read this website before and he can't be bothered, partly because he says the affair was my fault and he made no mistake - besides he is perfect (or so he likes to say).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Also tell me about the conditions of the lease. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When selecting an apt., I was very careful about choosing a place with a lease I could get out of fairly easily. The lease is a 6 month one, but I can leave at any time and just pay that month's rent, and lose my $400.00 security deposit. No punishment fee for leaving beyond that, and I'm not responsible for the rent for the remaining months of the lease. I intend to mention this in my letter to my H that I will be leaving for him Sat. My intentions remain to move out only for a couple/few months, and move back once/if my H is able to forgive me and is willing to really try being a couple again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">4. When his A is ended BEFORE you move back in, it is essential that you have a recovery agreement, plans for how it will work, and that it be implemented. If you just jump back together before that happens, it is unlikely that your marriage will survive. I can help you with this also. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am afraid to respond to his ultimatum about HER. He told me that if I wasn't willing to not only let him remain friends with her, but also be friends with her myself (not just be civil to her, but be her friend), that he wouldn't be willing to try at this marriage and he'd be out the door. He says she is like a sister to him and will be a lifelong friend no matter what I do. He gives her credit for keeping him alive through this mess. He is intensely thankful for her friendship when he felt like he had no one else to turn to, in part because of our original desire to keep this all a secret from most of the world. She was one of the very select few who knew from the beginning. We waited to tell almost all of our friends and family until we'd been separated for a month already.

Anyway, I was hoping to try to work on things without having to address his insane request regarding her friendship for now, and entice him back to me with kindness and plan A type behaviour. Then once he's come back, I can more successfully tell him I want nothing to do with her.

I read SAA (the whole thing, although I skipped the detailed example chapters about the 4 rules) last night. I think I am fairly well aware of my EN's, and even my H's. I am afraid to ask him to complete the questionnaire though, worried he'll regard it as psychobabble bunk for cheating whores like me, not perfect husbands like him. Yes, he sometimes likes to call me the cheating whore.

Whew - sorry that was so long. I didn't really type in a bunch of questions, and focussed on answering yours hoping you could go from there on some advice.

Again, when you are going through so much, I really appreciate your offer to help get me through this! I have been praying for you and will continue to do so!!

Take care,

Jen

Yikes, I was just reading the thread "After a long plan A just found out" and read this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He said that the way in which W acted last Friday is typical of a spouse coached by an attorney. He said that by making the BS feel like there's hope for reconciliation, the BS will then "Give away the farm" under the illusion that the WS may want to reconcile! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I perhaps didn't mention that before my H left on his fishing trip that we wrote up and signed a separation agreement, and that when I move I'm taking all of my stuff as outlined in the agreement (just in case we never work things out).

That quote scares me a little. I'm on the other side of things though - subsititue BS for WS and vice versa.

Jen

One last detail I just thought of - a reason why I don't think my H is having a PA with HER. On several occasions after he has spent a night at her place watching movies, he has come home and wanted sex. He was more than ready to go. It wasn't like he'd just used up any of his resources. But then again, maybe he comes home to me and thinks of her, I don't know.

JB

Jen,

I warn you, my post is going to be long in order to reply to your questions, but it will be worth it to receive more of your wisdom!!

Flattery will get you far in life, young grasshopper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL
(Oh, maybe no one warned you, I have a really warped and twisted sense of humor.)

They were exercising together before the surgery. I was too busy to exercise with my H, and it was convenient for them to do so, at lunch time or right after work, etc.

Bingo. Here is where it begins.

What had me mad back then was my H started doing things for her that generally only boyfriends do in my opinion.

Yes, and that is what he was/is to her.

he brushed me aside, and pretty much said tough, she's a woman she needed my help, or she never would've gotten such a good deal on a cell phone.

Ooohhhh..... those be fightin' words for a rowdy feminist witch!!! I don't need ANY man to get a good deal on something!!!

Okay, I'm rambling,I am sorry, I get really angry when I think about her.

It's ok, you're allowed. We've all been there in one way or another.

Often she'd end up back at our place, down in the guest room, and my H would go down there and talk to her for a long time to comfort her, and usually also fall asleep down there next to her. I'd be upstairs alone in our bedroom, seething. But, I didn't go raise hell because how do you tell someone to stop comforting someone over a recently deceased (Sept.) loved one??

Honey, there's way more going on here than just friendship. I would bet my wonderful peaceful day that they were having sex in some manner. (I'm not on the Clinton belief that only intercourse counts)

Yes, I feel that it's an EA, but my H feels they are just friends and I drove them to being closer friends through my actions.

Everyone says that. You know that. No, you did not bring them closer. It was a choice on his part. Now I will agree that unmet needs and not spending time together doing things that you both enjoy was a contributing factor to making her seem more attractive.

I actually have some doubt that their relationship is physical because it would interfere with my H's love of being a martyr and being able to tell everyone he's the victim.

The most self righteous people on the face of the earth are the ones running around doing the very things they condemn everyone else for. I was molested by a high school teacher (catholic school) who taught sexual morals. VERY rigid, very strict, very self righteous.

Also, since he does have cause to point fingers at you, it eases his conscience. No, until proven otherwise, in my book they're physically involved. Have been for a while

My H's attitude is that so long as there's no physical touching, talking for hours, even lying next to each other in the same bed and talking for hours, and sleeping next to each other is fine if things don't get physical. Bull.

Well for one thing, even if it were just that it's offensive to you, and that makes it off limits. He took vows to love cherish and honor you. That means he doesn't do things that you find offensive or painful.

From the previous paragraph, you can see he makes demands. Also, I keep a journal. One of the first things I wrote in it the other night, after coming home late from a girlfriend's house was, "It's kind of nice to not be afraid of getting in trouble when I get home." I do a lot of things out of fear that my H will get angry.

Sounds familiar!!! LOL

I clean the house out of fear he'll get angry. I may not go spend time very often with certain friends that he's not crazy about for fear he'll get angry.

Ok, there's two dynamics going on here. One is that he is insisting that you DO something (clean the house). That is a demand.

The other is that he is asking you not to do something that is offensive to him. That is not a demand, in theory. Although the way he says it can be. You have the same obligation to not do things that hurt or offend him.

It's a sublte difference and we can talk about that more if you like. How much do you know about POJA? Have you seen the thread I had at EN about it? I can link it for you here if you like.

I just can't stand to ever have him angry with me, even if the only manifestation of his anger is a brief remark[/b[

That's a common feeling and very valid.

[b] like, "I can't believe you are sitting on the couch in front of the tv when the kitchen is a mess,"

This is a demand, and it's disrespectful. Depending on the tone and how you feel about it, it can also be considered an AO.

or "I don't know what you see in Susan, or how you can spend so much time with her. I was just sitting around here by myself all night."

This does qualify as disrespectful, BUT your husband is letting you know that you are not meeting his needs, that he would like to spend time with you, and that he is unhappy about you spending time away from home. You need to take this into account when making decisions on how to spend your time.

Plan A in a letter? Never heard of that. Thought it was only effective if spouse didn't know it was a conscious plan.

Ahhhhhh grasshopper...... now you see the necessity of Marriage Talk Radio <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But yes, you can do it in a letter. And it doesn't have to sound contrived or like a plan. I can help you out with whatever Plan A you want to do.

My H would make fun of me, and say something to degrade the fact that I have been reading books and some crazy website and following its principles hoping to save my marriage, when I should simply have never had an affair in the first place. He may not use those exact words, but he would make fun of MB, I'm fairly sure.

Well, if he were to say those things, it would certainly be disrespectful. But OTOH you're not really giving him a chance. We don't have to shove MB down his throat. We can do this without the mention of the word plan..... at least to begin with. Sublety is an ok thing to have.

When selecting an apt., I was very careful about choosing a place with a lease I could get out of fairly easily. The lease is a 6 month one, but I can leave at any time and just pay that month's rent, and lose my $400.00 security deposit. No punishment fee for leaving beyond that, and I'm not responsible for the rent for the remaining months of the lease.

Ok, this is good. What I wanted to hear.

I intend to mention this in my letter to my H that I will be leaving for him Sat. My intentions remain to move out only for a couple/few months, and move back once/if my H is able to forgive me and is willing to really try being a couple again.

I have a different letter in mind. And I'm not sure I would have you leaving your home. But I do want you to keep the apt. as an option.

I am afraid to respond to his ultimatum about HER.

Of course you are!!! The whole thing is a terrifying experience. But Jen, as long as this woman is in your life your marriage cannot heal. It's not negotiable in terms of having a marriage that is happy and safe.

He told me that if I wasn't willing to not only let him remain friends with her, but also be friends with her myself (not just be civil to her, but be her friend), that he wouldn't be willing to try at this marriage and he'd be out the door. He says she is like a sister to him and will be a lifelong friend no matter what I do. He gives her credit for keeping him alive through this mess. He is intensely thankful for her friendship when he felt like he had no one else to turn to,

Sweetie, this shows the depth of the affair and the addiction. He is in love with this woman. You are the BS here as well.

Anyway, I was hoping to try to work on things without having to address his insane request regarding her friendship for now, and entice him back to me with kindness and plan A type behaviour. Then once he's come back, I can more successfully tell him I want nothing to do with her.

What I have in mind is something like this.

I read SAA (the whole thing, although I skipped the detailed example chapters about the 4 rules) last night.

Ahem...... the rules would be a necessary part of the whole <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I think I am fairly well aware of my EN's, and even my H's. I am afraid to ask him to complete the questionnaire though, worried he'll regard it as psychobabble bunk for cheating whores like me, not perfect husbands like him. Yes, he sometimes likes to call me the cheating whore.

No, we're not going to push this on him. But I think Plan A is in order. Wanna talk about my ideas for how that might look?

focussed on answering yours hoping you could go from there on some advice.

Oh yeah!! I can blast off a page of stuff without much to go on at all!! LOL It's a gift <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Ok, tell me what you think and if you want to hear more of my thoughts on Plan A for you at this time. Also, feel free to ask any other questions you have.

My personal email is info@lifeworks-coaching.net

Cerri