Dear M,

I was looking for parenting courses on line, and Parenting Classes are not popping up for me.

For information on Parent Effectiveness Training, you can Phone: 800-628-1197, or 858-481-8121, or E-mail to
info@gordontraining.com
There used to be a list of instructors, you could contact those in your area, to see who was holding a class. You could just ask for a list of instructors in your area. Parent Effectiveness Training, by Thomas Gordon

This is a Link to parenting instructors: Instructors trained in awareparenting.com
805-968-1868, California, E Mail, info@awareparenting.com
Blessings

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>

m01069,

It is hard but you have to take it face value for now. If he wants to try; great ... ask him what he would do and what if he fails what are the repercussions ?. You have to match his word and his actions and also ask for ammend every time he fails and give him a reward when he shows improvement.

Take it one day at the time and even one moment at a time.

Hang in there.

-rh-

Whaler,

Thanks for the parenting class info, I will look it up today.

Redhat also thanks. I am taking what he says at face value.

I am walking the walk, acting "as if". I've been getting him to laugh on the phone. His voice sounds so good.

I found a beautiful house in WV on the bulletin board of a local grain store. 37 acres, log cabin. Oh, I dream of moving there, starting anew. I told H about it (in his job he can transfer countrywide) he said jokingly "I'd probably have to drive 3 days to get to work".

I don't know if I could move....This has brought my family and I closer than before which I didn't think possible. I need to get him to agree to transfer off the job he's on now where he stays in the hotel at night...He doesn't want to. His arguement is he'd have to drive over an hour each way for the other location and right now it's a 10 minute drive.

I want to say if you really want to work on us than prove it to me..get off that job.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by m01069:
<strong>I want to say if you really want to work on us than prove it to me..get off that job. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">W/O LB (demanding) tell him so, he is not a mind reader.

-rh-

Dear M,

I see an expansion of your willingness to change, by your mentioning a willingness to consider moving to another state. Whether H likes the idea or not, is less important. I wanted to recognize your own personal growth in expressions of a willingness to change, to put the marriage on a high priority, and your own personal conveniences, at a gradiently less important level.

By placing as many issues on the table for discussion, as you possibly can, you are indicating you are willing to change, and this willingness puts the responsiblity for the success of the marriage more squarely on H's shoulders. This is in line with 180 Degree Divorce Busters.

Blessings

M,

There isn't a stronger marriage or MB advocate on this board than I am...however....even Willard Harley says that not all marriages should be saved. You are married to a serial cheater...and you are quite right, it's nothing like dealing with a single affair. It shows a lack of conscience that will continue to put you at risk. This whole thing reeks of sexual addiction and MB does not work for addictions. His blantant refusal to give up these activities is even more evidence of that.

My advice to you is to get good legal counsel to establish financial support, and to go straight to Plan B....with STRIGENT conditions in place for even considering reconcilliation. I would also pay a visit to the dr. and get a good checkup and tests for stds. Plan A with exposure, meeting needs etc....is not going to work to end ALL of these affairs...this is beyond the scope of that.

I am keeping you in my prayers and sending you strength and caring.

Dear M,

Star may be giving you correct advice on when to go to Plan B.

One reason you stated for not staying wtih Plan B, a few weeks ago, was that H was sleeping in his truck, and had no where to go. Cloud points out that we should not try to save our spouse from pain that is related to personal growth. I would suggest that you review all the reasons that you gave up on Plan B, and be ready to avoid rescuing H from discomfort that is of his own making and responsibility.

Some others and I have suggested a sequential plan for withdrawing your services from H, if H starts to slip. You may wish to make plans sooner than later, as H will be back in another week, as I recall.

You have mentioned that H may have a habituation or addiction problem, but you were not sure. There are specialists that do testing to assess addiction problems. One of your options is to have H agree to see an addiction assessment specialist. The implication of an addiction is that MC is not usually the most effective intervention. H would probably need some program to deal with his own habituation, and then come to MC. Your MC may have some ideas how best to proceed.

Blessings

<small>[ April 29, 2004, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>

I hear you all loud and clear. Those of you that know my story know that one of my H's first excuses was that he's been protecting me all these years, that he never was in love with me, he felt bad for me. He labeled himeself "m's protector"

I look back and at the present and I have always been the protector, call it motherly instinct. And I can't stop. I can't stop protecting him anymore than I can stop protecting my kids. I have strong family roots, I am a very commited person.

You guys would vomit if you read what I did in his 200 emails. The details, the lies, the betrayel, the professions of love. At the end, when she let go of him, he sent a couple of emails to her saying he's crying so hard, his heart is broken, it hurts so bad. Why does it hurt so bad. She's killing him. These are the same words he heard me say when he broke my heart. He knew exactly what I was feeling and he still proceded to go through with it and continue until he was discovered and stupid committed me, stubborn me is still standing here. I keep getting up faster when I get knocked down now.

He's coming home Saturday from VA. He'll be tired from 10 hour drive. He went out for some beers with the guys tonight. It doesn't even bother me, which is strange. I said to him "don't get into any trouble" he says "I'll try not to" and I said "No, you won't right?" he says "yes, right".

He goes to Dr's on Tues for STD testing.

Actually there is no plan B w/o plan A ... use tough love and it is an effective way dealing with addictions. It is a plan B w/ contact.

However you should get conseling w/ MB or Cerri before doing anything in a hurry. You are the one who have to live with the decision. We all know that you should not put up with his actions but if you are not ready you will have difficutly to implement plan B or tough love ... or worst you might have regret down the road.

-rh-

There is one thing I have learned here. If you are not ready for something, if it's not in your heart. There is nothing nobody can tell you to change that. I believe it goes along with owning your own decisions.

It helps so much to come here and get everyone's views. When my H came to me he kept saying I needed to open my viewing window. Stop looking through a tunnel. Talk to people like he has and it will increase my view everytime.

Fortunately I feel I am talking to the right people and my view is one of moral standings. He's speaking to people that have troubled marriages that don't have a clue of the correct path out. Every girl I've spoken with so far is in a troubled marriage or recently divorced. I've suggested this site to them, but felt I was shrugged off with my suggestion.

Misery loves company they say. But with this site I get a sincere feeling that we are looking out for each other's best interest, not to pull each other down so we're miserable together.

Whaler, redhat

I have another post open on GQ. "SEX QUESTION ** IT'S A STRANGE ONE"

When you get a minute maybe you could hop over and give me your input. I have found a website www.sex-addiction.com and I will see what I find there but a man's input is appreciated.

Dear M,

I looked at the site you referenced. There are several other sites like it, that do not have public comment message boards. They are more on the make-wrong model. If H feels he has a problem and wants to work on it, that approach might work.

From what you have disclosed on the other thread, I don't see anything so bizzartre that cannot be handled by compromise in the marital bedroom. There may be activities with which you have expressed disdain, and H has not approached you ffor compromises on issues in that area, that may be important to him.

My wife does not say much verbally about bedroom activites. I learn what my wife likes or dislikes more by reading about her astrology sign. I try different things and get brushed away with her hand, or pushed away, and that is pretty much the depth of my marital commuicaiton on the bedroom.

Blessings

<small>[ May 01, 2004, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>

I know my H has always been bashful about sex discussions. I on the other hand can talk to anyone about just about anything. I am definately going to try different ways to communicate regarding sex.

In the past, because my H would get uncomfortable talking seriously, having a heart to heart about sex I tried putting humor into it. (that is me anyways, I try to lighten up tense situations with a little humor), now I learn that he thought I was making to light of situation so I have to find a happy medium, if there is one?

H came home this morning from VA. GUESS WHAT???? He kissed me on the lips and slapped me on the fanny and picked me up!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> First time in months. He kissed me a few times today and even yelled out "I love You" in front of the nieghbors b4 he went to a brush fire in town. We all went out quadding for a couple of hours and had a picnic. The may flies kind of spoiled that though, H HATES BUGS!!! So, he was grouchy for the picnic. I just tried to make best of it by trying to wave flies away from him and kids and saying that next time we'll have to bring citronella candles. I know he was also grouchy because he carried his fire dept beeper and knew there was a brush fire going on. I could tell he would rather be there. This all falls into his complaint of me stopping him from doing what HE wants to do to make me happy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by m01069:
<strong>This all falls into his complaint of me stopping him from doing what HE wants to do to make me happy. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, this is the best time to train him to fillin your ENs the way you would enjoy it the most <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Reward him though when he does the right stuff right away.

Check out my reply on your other post.

Live Learn & Love -rh-

Dear M,

Glad you are still in good spirits. Nice to see a cheerful attitude from H, at least starting out.

I keep some sun block lotion in the car that has insect repellent with it.

To whatever extent possible, when I get itchy signals from my wife, I tell her to go ahead. I try not to hold her back in hardly any way. By letting her loose, she seems to reliably come back. I may raise a sufficient objection to let her know that I would prefer she stay, but I acknowledge her right to go.

You might try to structure things so as to be able to say, "Is there something else you feel you should be doing?" With the idea that if so, then he should go do it. H has been coming home at night. So maybe you can have confidence in his coming home, and work the best you can when he is home.

I'm not sure total honesty is absolutely essential, but I think you know you need to do some listening. Since H is reluctant to talk, you may have a challenge getting him to talk. I'll try to look up some good series of questions. "Can you tell me some more ideas that might come to your mind?" "What would you like me to do for you?" "What would you like to do for me?" "What would you like to visualize?" "What would you like to drink?" "What would you like to have on the TV?" "What would you like to have on the CD player?" "How can we be sure that our daughters are not peeping at us?" "Which muscles would you like to get de-compressurized?" "How can we maximize satiation to minimize temptation?"

You have a better idea of your situation and your opportunites now, more than the last night you spent together.

The overlapping circles can be drawn for various categories of wishes and agreements. Also, for what each is blocking, with the overlapping part being what you agree should be blocked. You can chart your blocks for the marriage, and your blocks for the marital bedroom. Being more aware of what your blocking agreements/divergences are, could lead to clearer communication, and even negotiation on sore points. Often, in negotiations, feelings of opponents are not disclosed, and the most optimal agreements are rarely reached, becasue of omissions of values of feelings on issues.

Blessings

<small>[ May 02, 2004, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>

WE DID "IT" LAST NIGHT. Yesterday went really well between us. Lots of conversation about our BIG common interest (ATV's) He wants to get a bigger ATV.

Well, H is wakin up. I'll write more later. I wrote more under my GQ post.

Dear M,

Hope that you are doing well, and that you will post any difficulties. I did find info on a parenting course that I took with my wife, some 6 or 8 weeks, one night a week. The course gave us a better understanding, language and love. They also have the videos available, but there may be classes in your area, click Parents, and search by your location.

Parenting Books, Courses and Videos

AP, Active Parenting by Michael H. Popkin. Ph. D.
Active Parenting Web Site

Best wishes,

<small>[ May 07, 2004, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>

Dear M,

I am still getting more organized, and came accross another parenting class resource.
Nurturing Parenting by Stephen J. Bavolk, Ph. D. Nurturing Parenting Courses and Materials
1-800-688-5822

Whaler, Thanks for info. I will check it out

We went to MC yesterday, 1st appt since H decided to try. It went very well.

1st assignment is for us to break out calenders and share schedules and schedule "US" time and to be open and honest.

One thing that bothers me is my H agreed to no sex with OW, which is great. The MC turned to my H and says "This is a mutual bounderie, right? No sex with OP for either." My H replies "If M wants to have sex with another man, that's her choice, it wouldn't bother me. I have never controlled anyone before and I won't do it now" MC asks "If she does, do you consider your marriage over?" My H replies "No, I would still stay married."

The MC and I were floored to say the least. I have a feeling that H is playing just another game. I'm tired Whaler...H seems to be trying but I am in contact with OW and the things she is telling me it's like my H is really whacked out to the point it scares me (I don't mean physically scares me). He doesn't think he has a problem to go to IC.

Whaler, I met a man. He literally got pushed into me one night I was out w/ friends. Although I know of no future with us because of various reasons, he's such a good friend to me and he would move heaven and earth for me. He knows of my situation and think it sucks.

My H has never been a protector of me, even though he claims that was his motive to marrying me. I found a couple of letters to my H from prior saying that I feel like a stranger could slap me on the face and my H would blame me. My H has always given everyone else attention b4 his family, which is sad and I have voiced this to him many of times. My new friend is my protector. It's not only him but a couple of his friends (and my friends too). Oh, Whaler, I can't give him up for a friend.

One thing my H is concrete about is that he WILL NOT give up his female friends. I told him about this OM and he was fine about it. I told him we call each other and we have been meeting when I go out w/ girlfriends dancing. I feel so physically safe when he's there. He makes sure knowone bothers me and makes sure I get home o.k. and monitors my drinks. My H don't care what time I come in (he's sleepin), how much I drink or if I'm going out alone or w/ friends.

I am blabbing...and confused...

Oh-Oh -

Red flags. Right now you are very vulnerable to an A. Please do not see your new friend. All this will do is cause you more pain.

Your WH is deeply in the fog. That is why he is saying the things he does.

Adding another person to the mix is not going to help your marriage, even though it does feel wonderful.