From WW....

I AS I TOLD YOU A FEW WEEKS AGO-MY FEELINGS HAVE NOT CHANGED AND I THINK WE NEED TO TALK TONIGHT.

_____________________________________

How do I handle this? I think this is it.

I also believe ther was contact yesterday.

Some quick advice please

BH

Please move it to General Questions. It is much more corwded over there and you will get something quick.

I receive an e-mail from WH two weeks ago: My feeling did not change. My decision to seperate remain to be true.

But he went to Toronto with me a week later, then we are going to MB weekend. I am not saying he is changing, but I am just hanging there.

BH,

Don't panic. Listen to what she says, quietly and carefully. Acknowledge her feelings.
Tell her you want some time to digest what she has said.

As lost and hurt said, her feelings can change overnight.

If possible ask her to give it a time frame, a year before she takes any irreversible actions. Let her know you are willing to give her time, as much as she needs, and help her in any way you can.

I am praying for you both tonight, that God will do a work in her heart.

She might just have PMS or be tired and depressed at the moment.

Shul

Hang in there and see what she has to say. If she wants to separate, let her move out. Don't you leave. Then it will be time for Plan B. Be calm and let us know what she has to say. Remember we are all on your side.

Thanks for your replys,

I don't lnow if this is good or bad rightnow but I feel like I dodged a bullet last night.

She cam e home a few minutes after I posted the message and then I had to leave for school and see a customer afterwards. I got home about 8:30 and put the last kid to bed at 9:30.

We got into bed and she wanted to say something so bad, but didn't.

She finally just said "I am %150 mentally exhausted, and I have so much crap swirling in my head" I said goodnight.

We had small talked up until that point and then she rolled over and went to sleep. By yhay time I was mentally exhausted too so I went to sleep.

I think she had contact with OM because she was getting better and yesterday she was back to day one again.

I don't know how to approach it without starting an irreversible chain of events.

Thanks for your help folks, I need to get something figured out.

BH

I think this advice form Shul is excellent:

"If possible ask her to give it a time frame, a year before she takes any irreversible actions. Let her know you are willing to give her time, as much as she needs, and help her in any way you can."

As the day for our divorce approached (last September) my WH was really torn. He was crying a lot, OW started breaking up with him a lot, and he was changing his mind several times per week and even day. So I told him I was worried about him and that he should take some more time to sort his feelings out before making such a drastic decision that would affect so many lives. I told him I didn't want him to feel rushed or pressured (I let the OW do all that). He eventually agreed to delay the divorce for a year, to sign a one year separation agreement. I also had told him after the divorce I would no longer see him; he wanted to be allowed to come to my home and also to have me come along for visitation with our daughters, said, "the kids need to see us together"... So part of his motive for agreeing to delay divorce was to be able to continue to see me. Plus I told him I would start dating once the divorce was final - something he has a problem with LOL. He says I'm too old to date and remarry (I'm a year younger than him and look at least a decade younger than him. I guess he thought I would just play nanny to our kids and eventually grandkids the rest of my life? LOL) Well, he did sign the separation agreement and the OW was furious. She broke up with him for 1 1/2 months. And although they keep getting back together the break-ups are longer than the make-ups.

I think you're right that your wife may have had contact with the OM again. It starts the withdrawal all over again. If she's smart she will figure this out sooner rather than later and learn that self-control and no contact will protect her from more pain in the long run. Contact will only give her a temporary fix, making her feel instantly better but then it wears off very quickly and she will feel even worse than before. She will assume since contacting OM makes her feel so good and no contact makes her feel so bad that it's some sort of proof that she and OM are 'soulmates'... But it's really just like any other addiction. In reality he's no more her 'soulmate' than a cigarette or alcohol is to an addict.

<small>[ April 30, 2004, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

BH,

Hi there, I know it's a bit scary when they start opening up their feelings but it's actually good. Well good because they want to share what they're thinking, and bad because it could be what you don't want to hear.

Well, all I could say is their feelings waffle everyday and it changes from moment to moment or it could be day to day. So just relax and be prepared and be cool for what they have to say. Be a good listener, and don't interrupt her or defend yourself. I used to have every defense for his attack - like he would say " I don't feel romantic towards you etc.." and the emotional reactive me would counter and say " yeah because you've not been romantic, not trying hard etc." What I found out from him is that they don't want you dismissing their concerns, instead I should have said, " I understand, tell me more about it" or I agree let me think about what you said"...the book will tell you how to respond. Glad you ordered it, read it right away please!

Anyways, if she has contact it is expected... she's still confused and the OM makes her feel "normal" and herself so she looks up to him for security. Now if she is planning to move out to be with him I suggest you talk to your IC so you can go to the next plan to protect your love and yourself. Email me if you want more details : rarca1@yahoo.com

You know my SO moved out and the first week was rough but I'm on my 2nd wk getting better, except of course that he's not with the OW and am seeing positive signs from him so it's a bit different case than Plan B. You'll see (and I know you'd dread getting to this phase) but it will be better, less pain for you and maybe it will clear it out for her.

Hang tough, learn learn learn, listen a lot, accept her decision with understanding and tell her that much as you want to be a family if she wants to be on her own to think things through go ahead and think. However if this is the OW then give her the Plan B letter... Tread cautiously my friend. Try not to panic, my SO talks with me everyday about the A until I did my own self change and I stopped altogether mentioning it.

Take care and be calm relax and just listen!
BF

I could'nt agree more with what BF has said. I'm in a sort of Plan B not very successful I might add. He does,nt have an OW with him now but he hs to deal with himself. Since Xmas he has been back and forth and upset not knowing what he wants from one minute to the next. It seemed to cahnge from day to day.

All I do know is that he does,nt want to be without me but has no idea how he can turn around his own feelings. I was a desperate human being for the first 2 weeks when he left but now I have decided to be calm. Interestingly enough this has developped in a most interesting way.

I have given him space and not forced him into a corner and because of this I am hearing things that are almost an expression of my own understanding about life in general. It's not usual for my H to speak this way. So instead of lecturing him as I guess I must have done, you know how it goes we come on this site read the concepts and spout with so much conviction which is meaningless to the WS.

If I have learned anything from this 2nd A is that my dignity lies in being calm even though I have felt so bad at times. I feel better and rather than be a victim which is real easy to do when we are in pain I have decided to take the stance of "I can handle this" Although we feel like we are messed up in reality it's not us it's our WS who hs the problem.

So listen even though it's difficult because the reality is the Ws are looking for a handle not to quit.

Hello Everybody,

Today was about the hardest day of my life.

I knew the wife wanted to talk last night, I gave her 2 and a half hours to come clean. She couldn't do it. She finally said about 10 p.m. "My head hurts there is so much crap in it" I said "Just roll over and go to sleep, you'll feel better in the morning". She says "I am %150 percent mentally exhausted" I say "About what hun?" she says "Work" and goes to sleep. Well she actually didn't sleep till long after me, she told me after midnight this morning.

Forward to 5a.m. ths morning. I roll over and we snuggle for a half hour. We get up and she is on edge after about 10 minutes but we drink coffee and read the paper like usual, when she gets out of the shower I remind her I am going to Moms on Saturday to finish her deck and I say "Any plans with the kids while I am gone?"

Her
"I'll tell you in a minute"
older kids leave for school and two younger kids watch tv.
Her
"I am leaving work early this afternoon"
Me
"Why"
Her
"To pack up some clothes and go to cousins to stay awhile"
Me
"I'm sorry to hear that but telling me 10 minutes before you leave for work isn't a very healthy way of dealing with this"
Her
"I wanted to tell you for 3 days but I didn't have the guts" her crying begins
Me
I walked over to her and hugged her, pulled back to look her in the eyes, then said "Your a grown woman darling, I can't force you to do anything against your will, I would rather you stay here and work on us but if the only road back to the family is by leaving then that is your decision and I can't stop you"
Her
"I don't know what to do and I can't stand hurting you anymore"
Me
I pulled her close again and whispered in her ear "I love you hun and nothing has changed that, you are still the star in my sky and the song in my heart, the mother of my children and my best friend"

She just kept sobbing. So I pulled back and told her.

"We'll be OK, the kids and I, it is you I am worried about"
Her
"I'm worried about me too"
Me
"Listen, come get your things, take yourself out to a nice lunch and relax. You have alot on your mind and alot of cobwebs to clear out"
Her
she hugs me tight and says "I have to go to work"
ME
"The door is open hun, it always has been you just have to walk through. I love you and don't think for a moment that I somehow won't, couldn't or wouldn't welcome you with open arms should you decide to come home"

I whispered in her ear one more time
"I love you, now get going before you're really late for work"

Her
"I love you very much, I really do and I am so sorry I did this to you"
Me
She keeps hugging me and I said
"Love isn't the question anymore darling, there is plenty of that, it's acting on that love that is needed, now get going and have a great day! Try not to let this interfere with work today"
She
"I'm going...I love you"
Me
We kiss for awhile and I say "***, I love you and if you'll let me, I want to share one thing I have learned with you"
Her
"What is that"
Me
"I have learned how to forgive, I have forgiven myself and I have forgiven you and I hope you can learn while your gone how to forgive yourself and forgive me, it is a great feeling when you can do it for yourself, even better when you can do it for another"
Her
another kiss and
"I love you"
Me
"I know you do, and you know I do, now get going and don't forget, your a good woman...see you later"

And out the door she went. She calls me about 5 minutes later and says "Can I come over after the kids go to bed tonight?" I told her "Tonight probably wouldn't be good, I am telling the kids you are going out of town on sudden business for a few days until I can slog through this and figure out what I am telling them"

She says "OK, I'll call you later"

I called her cousin afterwards, she is a pro marriage lady and in my corner. Her and I were the ones that came up with her offering her home to my wife if she was to leave. Cousin told me on the phone something that made me feel like a million bucks, cousin says "You are a great man, I have no idea what else a woman could want in a man, your kind and strong, good looking, generous and any other good thing a girl looks for in a man, don't let her eat away at that, let me help her see what she is losing, I'll do whatever it takes to help, I love you and I just want you to know that you are a big man, a lesser amn would have thrown her out, a lesser man couldn't tell his cheating spouse that he loves her, his ego wouldn't let him, but you have told her from the start the family can be repaired, your marriage can be fixed, it takes a great man to do that"

I started my crying right then, how couldn't I? I mean that was the single greatest thing anyone has EVER said to me. I told her how much I appreciate her and love her and thanked her profudely for being there when I needed someone the most.

Then I called my Mom and her Dad to let them know what happened. Two very disappointed people to say the least. My FIL is my buddy, he has told me many times over the years that he couldn't ask for a better son let alone SIL. He offered to pay for my share of the divorce if she doesn't come around and he is having another will drawn up taking her name off and leaving her share to our kids and making me executor and taking my wife out of that role. Very sad indeed, he wants nothing to do with her if she wants a divorce.

Anyway, I get to work and I already have e-mails from the wife. "Are you OK?" I didn't answer. "Can we have breakfast Sunday Morning?" I replied "Yes, call me early like 7 am and I'll meet you"

I am going to listen to what she has to say and I need to compose a PLAN B letter. If she isn't coming home to fix our M or I get the FOG speech I need to compose a PLAN B letter so I can give it to her at that time.

Soooo, sorry this is so long but I need some help.

Is it time for PlanB?

Can someone help me on the wording?

Do you think I did a good job with her leaving this morning? I tried to handle it so that she only saw a kind,compassionate man that had her best interest at heart?

I just need some feedback desperately. I need to know I handled it the right way.

I really need a shoulder to cry on and a word of encouragment.

I really want my wife back

BrokenHubby

BH, I know you're hurting right now but I'm absolutely blown away at how you handled this morning!! GOOD JOB! I GUARANTEE you that had a profound effect on your wife. It may still take her some time to come back around. Even though she may still be fighting both positive and negative feelings she has towards you - until she starts to see the OM in a realistic light, that addiction will continue to have a hold. I guess I'm not sure how long you've Plan A'd - but if you can keep the door open a little longer I think I would. If you get to the point where you are losing your love for your wife because of things she's doing or saying, then would be the time to go to Plan B.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. But it sounds like you're creating a great place to come back to.

Dear Hope,

Thank you so much for your feedback.

D-Day was 2/20, Plan A-ing my butt off ever since.

Does that change anything?

BrokenHubby

Feedback? Oh man, that was the greatest Plan A ever.

I want to write more but I'm a little broken up because I can relate a little too well.

I hope you are doing ok. Hang in there. I will leave it up to others to recommend if Plan B is the right next step. Half of me thinks, yes... but it's the half of me that thinks of Plan B as a tactic, which it really is not.

I dunno.

dewt

Well, sounds like you are doing fine. Just keep up the good work. Things will get better, I promise you.

BH:

I think it's 2 soon 2 go 2 plan B. Most people are advised 2 give plan A about 6 months. Even if she's out of the house, you can still do plan A, though it might be more difficult.

Are you working with a counselor? One of the Harleys or Penny Tupy? You should be if you're following the MB plans.

best,
-ol' 2long

You told her you love her, and you would give her all the time she needs to sort herself out, so why not just do that?

I think she was already regretting leaving when you were pushing her out the door! and when she called you back.

She probably needed to hear just what you said, that no matter what you wtill love her adn that you are willing to help her through this.

I think she needed you to tell her that you have forgiven her, to give her courage to stay.

If she is wanting to come over or come home, why not let her? It is easier for you to plan A if she is there.

Also, a note; don't take the responsibility for explaining to the kids away from her. I sense that she might also be questioning her relationship with her kids. Is there someway you can back off and let her be the primary caregiver a bit more? To give her the sense of belonging, and her importance in their lives?

Shul,

I honestly don't know what to do to reconnect her with the kids.

That is where our problem started as I look back on things. She has slowly pulled herself away over the last coupke of years until I have become the emotional and physical caretaker of all our children. I try to get her involved but she just seems to have no patience for them.

It has gotten to the point where theydon't go to her for anything! I am sure it stems from her reactions to them when they ask her for something. My OS knows what is going on and doesn't want her back. I have explained to him why but he doesn't see it.

Any advice would be appreciated in getting her reconnected.

BH

The only things I can think of off the top of my head, is to pretend there is something you can't deal with and ask her to deal with it.

Something she is good at, and will make her feel needed?

BH,
Now there's my guy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hey, it's working already, gee so many ILYs from her can you believe that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

How do you feel right now? I think by acting calm you are feeling calm am i right? This is what is called "acting as if" again from that book...enough said.

I'm so proud of you my friend for handling that so well! It reminds of the days leading to my SO's moving out very cool, no dramas , just lots of crying and ILYs.

I am warning you though it's gonna be tough for you for about a week. Very lonely especially when you come home to an empty house. I cried myself to sleep for a few days especially when I would come home ad he's gone but since I've not gone to Plan B everytime he comes to the house I'm this understanding,fun, warm as if I'm okay with it kind of girl. And hey it's only been 10 days for me but it's working wonders not just for him but for me as well. You will gain peace from letting go, strength from being on your own and the change you will see in yourself is something very precious and hopefully you can maintain whatever happens...take it from me friend, it's amazing.

I've seen Penny Tupy and we have decided that I shouldn't be in Plan B or the protection phase coz it isn't necessary yet as he hasn't moved in with the OW. He's by himself calling me every night before he goes to sleep and every morning he's excited to be here early (he has left his office here in the house.)

So hang in BH, I'm sure the timing of the book couldn't have been more perfect for you so read it from start to finish. I was actually browsing through it first and got stuck on Ch.5 which was creating harmony in your home and boy I was hooked. So now am doing it fr. start to finish.

Your cousin is right you're a good man and you have everything going for you and now you have this new change and new perspective that you can use to handle the days ahead. Chin up my friend, you are doing great.

For distraction, please go out with friends, or call families to talk, read a book, walk or talk to people anything to take your mind off the W. Also try not to call her or worry about her. This time appear less interested but when she is then show it, make her do the first move so you'd know that it's not forced and that it is what she wanted to do. Let your cousin report the progress. You're in good hands at least coz my SO doesn't have anyone who can report to me but hey I have angels up above plus I've stopped worrying about it now.

He asked me today, why are you always happy? I said I've chosen to be happy every moment as I'm starting fresh, don't want to be sad anymore, or depressed. Life is too short to spend obsessing on what if or what could have been. I'll leave that up to God, He'll take care of tomorrow for me.

He said, oh my we are getting closer and I like it, do you want me to move back home. I said of course but if you feel like you need more time, take more time but can you still handle the extra expenses financially? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> He goes, I know...I will really think this weekend and make some decisions. "have fun!"

I'm actually getting used to the setup I feel like we're dating and since I've made so many plans when he's asking me out I always tell him "oops, I've made plans with so and so...and he goes ok maybe next time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> " Little trick that will make them plan ahead before the others.

Ok, it's getting too late here, am just so happy to hear your progress, of course sad to hear about her moving out (please don't give her any timeline such as when you said 3 days or something to that effect i could be wrong, you don't want her back when she's not ready yet).

Email us or share with us your feelings when you need to as it's going to be a little rough but it will get better you will see. Remember no expectations, timelines or deadlines. Work on yourself first and everything else will follow.

G'night! Praying for you, hold on to Him,
BF

BH,
Sorry I forgot about the kids.

I have my kid too who he's gotten close to but since he's 16 I told him honestly that SO has to sort things out for himself so he needs to do this on his own and he said "I understand Mom". Told him that compassion and understanding is the only thing we can provide to him right now.

I'm not sure it is ripe to push her with the kids as she has enough on her plate right now battling all these self-worthlessness and guilt towards everyone so I would suggest taking this responsibility to explain to them honestly what's going on and that Mommy needs some time to sort out her own problems which doesn't mean that she loves you guys less. Make them feel safe that it is a temporary phase that you are working out on and hopefully in the end "we will have her back. However if she doesn't come around then at least you have shown her all our love and we can only pray to God that she will."

G'luck!
BF

BH,

She probably needs to see and feel the distance she has created with you and the children.

So back off on the ILYs. At least for a while.

Do things with you and the children. Let others give her a hard time about NOT being a mom and W.

Periodically let her know you and the children love her .... but do not want a WS in your lives. You all want a W and mother. If she can't be that then she knows what she needs to do. Your children are trying to protect you. They don't want you to hurt and their little hearts are hurting also. You need to make sure your love and reassurance is given to them. Become each others support. She needs to see that she has separated herself from her family unit, not just from you.

Present yourself and the children and 1 pkg. All or not at all.

I know this sounds harsh but in reality that is what it is. Right?

take care,
L.