Dear Tired of Hurting,

Thank you for your post. In fact I feel less aprehensive now that my wife has been gone for 2 days.

One of the things my wife is challenging is my ability to walk away when she starts being unnecessarily critical. The reason my wife left me, she said, was because I was leaving when she wanted to continue being overly critical.

So your post seems to offer support for my current position that if I have to stay to listen to put-downs, then the marriage is not worth it.

Thanks again, and hope your marriage is peaceful.

Quipper
First marriage 28 years, separated 2 days.

Quipper,

I hope that things will shake out enough that your spouse will go get some help. I realize my post was abrupt, but I live in a glass house where we walk on eggshells sometimes on a daily basis. I always thought that if I changed my hair color, or got it cut differentyly, lost more weight, kept the house perfect and the kids perfect, then things had to get better. They never did. On September 20, 2002, my mother passed away and the events that followed that week sent me over the edge (my Mother was buried on my baby's 2nd birthday). Things from that day forward became unbearable, I unfortunately turned to someone else for the comfort and shoulder I needed at time. My H, is doing much better than before, but there are times when I feel like I'm right back where I was and nothing has changed. I would like for him to go back to therapy this time for anger management, but I know he won't. So I pray that he will continue to go forward and not revert back. But when I see things slipping back in, it really scares me. We have four children and I've been at stay at home Mom for 10.5 years, I have no marketable job skills and no money of my own. So I am willing to keep trying.

Good Luck.

Dear Tired of Hurting,

I can identify with feeling trapped. I have a lot of research materials at my house, and it would take some work to either put the materials in storage, or sort things out to fit into current storage facilities.

I suppose I could suggest starting to work on job skills, my daughter earns $53,000.00, and learned it all studying on a laptop, and took computer certification tests. I, myself, could just go rent a room, $250- $350 per month, maybe $450, in my area, but as of yet, I have not done that.

My wife waited till I went to work on a midnight shift, and then came home. I drove past her car, as I was late leaving for work. She could probalby use some help. I have suggested that we get help, and have gone to some therapists, in the past, but she has resisted. In a selfish sense, I perhaps should dump her now while she is young enough to start another marriage.

Inersting phrase, "You are young enough to start another marriage, why be concerned about me?" I just tried to love you for 28 years, and two kids, so it is apparent that I do not have your love, now, so what should we be concerned about?

Love,

Quipper
Married 28 years, separated 3 days

Dear tiredofhurting,

I wanted to clarify that I am not saying that it is ok to stay in a verbally abusive relationship. Quipper had said earlier in this thread that he wanted to work this out with his wife so I respected him for that and gave advice as to what he could TRY to do.

I have been in a verbally abusive relationship for 16 years. I let the abuse happen and never so much as mumbled a word of how I felt to him because if I did it didn't matter anyway and that just gave him more fuel. But this year I have changed things and it has worked for me. I have changed in the way that I don't take responsibility for his actions anymore. He knew before that he could act out and then blame me and I would take the blame upon myself. Now I don't. I haven't changed me into what HE wants me to be I have changed into a stronger person and have set boundaries and I stick with those boundaries, I no longer take the victim role. I no longer accept abuse. AND I STRESS THAT THIS DOES NOT WORK FOR ALL PEOPLE. I do believe that change is possible but only if the other person wants to change because we can't change them, they have to want to change themselves.

So it's not that I think physical abuse is any worse than verbal/emotional abuse. And when I say if someone is being physically abused that they should not try to work it out it's because I don't want them to get hit. But if someone who is in a verbally abusive relationship says that they want to try one last time and they want advice then I will offer what has worked for me. Verbal abuse can do as much harm as physical, actually verbal is worse. I know, I have been there with the verbal abuse.

Quipper is the first person that I have offered advice to as far as what I am doing that has changed my life because HE asked, because he wanted to make an effort to salvage his marriage and there is nothing wrong with wanting to try IMO if that is what you want to do. If your efforts of making the relationship a happier one do not work then you leave. But I am by no means telling anyone to just stay and put up with it, I am offering advice to Quipper that has worked for me.

Check my other responses and posts please before you make an assumpion about me. I never told Quipper to stay, I've never told anyone to stay.

Dear Jade,

Thanks for your ideas, and I appologize for not rising more forcefully to your defense, but you did fine, on your own.

My wife returned home Sunday, but is still punishing me by being in a withdrawn mood. I have been focusing on my son completing a self-improvement course, that was beyond my budget, but I felt was key for him, 26, and unable to support himself. Tonight is the second to last night, with graduation being a week from next Monday, and mostly perfunctory, but tonight is the last real working night, and I saw the books out for studying when I left home at 2 PM. I often call at 6 PM, to make sure he did not oversleep, as it starts at 6:30 PM.

I called to remind my wife not to start up some argument with our son, that could wait until after class. She has been cooperative in the past, and seemed cooperative with guiding our son today.

I scheduled to sit down with my wife to dicuss issues, going out to dinner on Thursday evening.

One reason I got married was for inspiration and increased productivity. Lately my moody wife has been slowing down my momentum, so the marriage is not making sense. Hopefully this is just a small bump in the road.

Thanks again,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling after a 2 day separation.

<small>[ August 25, 2003, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Sorry Jade - didn't even read your post, just Quippers' - I was upset over another post I had read in EN - was not trying to pin anything on this post. I truly think that a verbal abusive relationship can be worked out, if the abuser wants to change. I also live a with a verbal abuser and he is changing everyday for the better.

I don't advise to leave or to stay, just to get help. I don't want someone breaking down like I did and doing something they regret.

On a different note - My SIL and I are thinking about starting a maid service. She was laid off of work today and We haven't had a raise in three years. So just maybe, it might work out, because we are great at cleaning! Wish us Luck.

Good Luck -Quipper.

tiredofhurting,

Sorry I mistook your reply.

I feel very strongly about abuse obviously because I live it. I always think if I knew then what I know now I would've gotten out of the relationship immediately. I know it's still possible to leave and that is an option but for me it's not an option until every avenue of help has been exausted. But things seem to be changing, for now anyway. I just hope that it lasts.

The hard part about verbal/emotional abuse is that things go well for a period then it starts to get ugly again....that's just part of the cycle. I think the cycle can be broken though, only time will tell if thats true or if I am fooling myself.

I always tell anyone who is in a new relationship and seeing abuse starting to happen to get out while they still can, before it gets too deep. The longer you are with someone the harder it is to leave them and the longer you are with an abuser the more control they gain over you and the more they will use their tactics to get their way. And then the abused person has NO self worth and doesn't even trust their own judgement anymore, you become completely empty. I've been to that low point and I will never ever go back to those feelings of worry and self doubting and self hate and walking on eggshells for no reason but fear. It took me a long time to figure out that he is the one with a problem and that I am not at fault and that there is nothing wrong with me and that I am not all the ignorant things he used to say I was and most importantly I don't cause him to be angry and get irate...the anger and the way they handle that anger is all on them....I don't OWN his anger, that's his to own.

I wish that they taught about verbal and physical abuse in high schools everywhere, then maybe people would know whats happening from the get go and not allow themselves to be treated with such disrespect from someone that is supposed to love them.

Good luck with your business venture!!! Be positive about it, you can do anything that you set your mind to <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Dear Tired of Hurting,

You are welcome to continue on this thread. I have not finished resolving a number of issues, being discussed here.

The tempo on Emotinal Needs is rather direct, with many posters giving colorful and opposing ideas, without necessarily trying to be real helpful. I have gotten put downs for trying to be helpful in the Emotional Needs section, and since there are so many people posting in that section, I usually don't post there. I will occasinally follow someone into Emotional Needs who has posted on a less traveled category.

I spent 50 Minutes last night with my telephone editor, and basically went over this thread and came up with some constructive responses to anger, by changing the subject to:
A. POJA, Following and Exceptions
B. History of feelings on issue
C. Climate, Mood Atmosphere of the House.
D. Need for a break
E. Fears and concerns
G. Manner of break to take.
H. Need to Take a Break to avoid committing love busters.

I have my wife agreeing to lunch today, and I plan to go over her wish list, so I can be sure that I am not missing any easy ones, and also to let her think out her/our priorities. I also want to hear more about my wife's ideas on how I should take a break, as she apparently has some new ideas on that.

I think there is a real need for people willing to clean, because so many people don't like to do it. I personally mop, sweep and vacuum at work, and am am paid more than many who refuse to do it, but the bosses are unable to get others to do cleaning in key areas. They just canned the only guy that was halfway willing to actually get dirty and do difficult cleaning. Everybody else was finding ways to criticize the guy, but never saw the real value of the guy as a willing cleaner.

Best wishes,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling.

Dear Jade,

I started a Journal in Word, and there seems to be some progress.

Yesterday, W agreed to give me back the basement, for the things I have in storage for $300.00 per month. She agreed to POJA on not throwing my stuff away without my enthusiastic support.

I presented a chart to my son, who felt offended as the book says Adolescents on it. I made up a chart for several months of days ahead, so we can track things that happen gradually, and only every several days. I am calling them Celebration Charts. I said I wanted more money from my son toward his expenses, and suggested that we track his applying for jobs as something to track and celebrate. I am tracking the 30 minute walks I take, every few days. Yesterday my son applied for a job, so I marked it down on a chart for Job Applications.

I do not yet have my wife tracking something of hers on a chart.

Best wishes,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

Hi Quipper,

Haven't been postly lately. Having a bit of a rough time.

Hope things are going ok with you. Your list/chart sounds like a good idea. How is that going?

I will probably post over the weekend when I have more time.

Take care!
Jade

Dear Jade,

Things are going so smoothly with my wife that it is scary. The lull before the storm. My challenge is to catch up all the things I have been procrastinating before real problems hit the fan, and the marriage deteriorates. I made a little progress today. More to go.

My son tried to throw a temper tantrum several times, and I just backed off and gave him space. Patterson says just go find something else to do, after you make your point. Be careful not to take any position from which you will have to back down, he says.

My position is rather unassailable. I want to celebrate good things that my son does. He has not yet come up with much of a way to argue about it, other than throwing the piece of paper with the chart back on the table.

My son offered me some items to put on the Applying for Jobs chart. He went out of town over the weekend, and arranged to pay another waiter $50.00 to cover his weekend shift, so he would not lose his job (2 days a week). That is kind of like applying for a job.

My wife is constantly cooking for our son, and buying him his favorite food, and then complaining to ME that our son leaves his personal items in the living room instead of carrying them up to his room. Patterson preaches being contingent. How about, "While I am cooking this pasta for you, my dear son, how about you pick up your things out of the living room and carry them up to your room." [If Son does not start moving, my wife agreed that she could just turn off that burner, slide the pot to a burner that was off, and find something else to do, until my son's items in the living room were removed.] A phraseology that might work for her, "I'm feeling foolish to finish cooking the pasta, until you have taken your stuff out of the living room, so let me know when you are finished with the living room, so I can feel good about finishing cooking your pasta."

My wife is starting a chart for herself on checking family insurance matters and doctors appointments. Once we have positives hooked to the charts, We can start on some furhter contingencies. Currently, nothing is contingent. Everyting is given unconditionally.

My wife suggested that she, my son and I play cards sometimes. Usually I try to avoid dealing with my wife in front of my son, becasue my wife will bring up issues that seem intended to increase her hand, or standing, in unresolved disputes between her and I. She agreed to a Code Word, Red, that will serve for me to let her know that she is stepping on my toes, when we are in a family setting.

So I hope you are finding ways to create space so that you can disengage when things start heading SOUTH. I have not divined what problems you might be currently having, so I will just wish for peace around you.

Thanks for listening,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

<small>[ August 30, 2003, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Dear Jade,

Procrastination:

The book Gerald Patterson, 1987, says:

Procrastination is the result of parents yelling at us as kids. The cycle is that when parents ask politely, we ignore them, for as long as possible. When they finally start yelling, we are getting intense attention in combination with the Pain of fear of Parents imposing punishment, Then we do what we were told to do.

We are left with a mechanism, and a habit, to get intense attention, quite close to getting love, by delaying complying with polite requests.

I told my wife today, that she needs to have immediate compliance from our son for anything she asks. He needs to have the habit of immediate compliance with a reasonable request.
I told my wife to be careful what she asked our son for, and find a way to obtain immediate compliance.

Also randomly criticizing the kid for a bathroom light left on, or other irritating transgressions, was counter-productive, and created a tendency to procrastination.

She first said, well if I ask him to pick up the living room, it is OK to delay if he is tired. I said if he has the habit of delaying complying with requests in the real world, he will never become self-supporting.

More to go,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

Hi Quipper,

I agree with what you've said about procrastinating. When someone yells or nags you to do something you are more likely NOT to do it than if they would have asked nicely and then gave a compliment or some type of praise afterwards. No one likes being TOLD what to do.

Things sound like they are improving somewhat for you and I'm glad for you.

I have been going through some rough times lately. He is being disrespectful and mean and rude lately. Makes me wonder if it's worth my efforts to make it work since he doesn't seem to be trying. I am at the point now of beginning to think that it is time to leave and move on without him. I deserve to be treated with respect, kindness and love and I'm not getting that from him. I have pretty much lost hope and I have lost any respect that I had for him. I am just tired. I am going to try to talk to him tonight and let him know how I am feeling about the way he has been treating me and how it is pushing me away. I am at the end of my rope here and really don't know what to do next. I have tried and tried and I am sick of trying and not getting results. He has to make up his mind as to whether he wants a good relationship and if he can't commit to being a better person then I need to leave and start a new life without him.

Jade

Dear Jade,

Sometimes it is better to cut your losses earier, before you experience more losses. I wonder if I am making the best investment of my efforts by staying in my current marriage.

Patterson suggests habit changing and giving people space when they are throwing a temper tantrum. My wife still is afraid of my son's temper, and umy wife usually avoids being assertive with him. I am trying to get her to develop clear avenues for her to give my son space, if he may choose to display his temper.

Your husband seems to express his ideas too quickly. Ideas often occur to us a complaints, or some negative feeling. It is only by thinking the idea over, and changing the concept to positive terminology, that we can be considerate of out loved ones.

One power of women I have pointed out in some posts, is the soothing quality of mammary contact. Hugging your husband's arm to your chest may be a reward system to use for 15 minutes without an unprocessed idea.

In the Book the INTMATE ENEMY, it suggests keeping an overnight bag under your bed. Also having an agrement for how it will smoothly work when you feel that you need a break for the night.

Hope your talk is productive with H.

Best wishes

Quipper
Married 28 years and stil struggling

Dear Jade,

Hope your talk went OK.

I visited the Web site you referenced a month ago, http://people.howstuffworks.com/vsd.htm,(won't clik fromhere for some reason) and this idea come up for me.

I am afraid to lose the love of my wife, and so when she speaks in anger, my fear kicks in. Fear is a natural response to anger from someone else.

One of your earier observations was to speak more calmly, and not get caugt up in the turmoil of the other spouse.

The subject of my fear, losing my spouse's love:

Honey if it is not worth your trouble to put your feelings of irritation into a plesant framework, then maybe we have a shortage of love. Is there a shortage of love that we need to address? How should we address the shortage of love?

This brings the issue up squarely. The impolite spouse is counting on the target spouse to be in fear of losing the love of the impolite spouse, and not bring up the issue of insufficient love.

Maybe there is some reason that there is a shortage of love. Is this a short term reason? A long term reason? Is there something we should change? Do we have a clear understanding of each otehr's current wish lists?

Your failure to take time to think of a polite approach indicates that we may not have a clear understanding of each other's wish lists.

I suggest that you go outside and take a walk around the block and think of some more polite and loving way to approach me about that issue.

Another Thread I found referenced incompletely, a while back, started by DriveTime, 25630, WELL IT HAPPENED AGAIN, NEED ADVICE, under Emotional Needs, started 5-20-2003

We have not discussed Boredom, mentioned in the Web as Baroque Boredom Response, BBR. They suggest evoking Boredom, by telling some tirvial story, as if it relates the the issue addressed by the attacker. Robert Redgrave was being atacked in the movie SPY GAME, in a CIA debriefing room. His character startd telling a story about his uncle who worked the fields of his farm with a plough horse. The horse fell, and came up lame, at 20 years old, after many years of service, and his uncle took the horse to the vet. The vet said he could not heal the horse, and offered to put the horse to sleep. And so on.

On the website, they suggest some childhood memory to be repeated, with details, to give the sense of boredom.

I have not been practicing boredom. I never tried to create boredom in that way. I knew there were lines in the SPY GAME that I could learn from. I think Boredom is stupid, but it is better than Anger, so I should work on it. Have you tried Boredem?

Boredom is supposed to be the path to Cheerfulness.

I still say the main key to answering impoliteness is to change the subject. I am finding more and more subjects to switch to.

Still working.

Quipper
Married 28 years and stil struggling

<small>[ September 03, 2003, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Dear Quipper,

I myself have not tried the boredom thing. I too feel uncomfortable with that one because I feel that boredom is annoying therefore it could make the other party more angry. Some of the other things in that article were good but I do not agree with the boredom thing. I think the key is listening and not jumping to conclusions. If the other person gets loud and ignorant then it is best to stop them and say in a calm non-threatening voice "I am listening to you, there is no need to get irate." or "I am listening to you but when you get angry and loud I shut down and I don't hear a thing you say.".

Some people think that if they get loud and mean that their point will get across but it just doesn't work like that. It does the opposite, it makes the person who should be listening to be thinking "what a jerk" and when you are thinking you won't hear what they are saying.

Changing the subject wouldn't work for me. He would take that as me turning it around and making it something about me and I believe that would make him more angry.

Yesterday I sent him an email with this story.

Nail in the Fence

There once was a little boy who had a bad temper. His father gave him a bag of nails and told him that every time he lost his temper, he must hammer a nail into the back of the fence.

The first day the boy had driven 27 nails into the fence. Over the next few weeks, as he learned to control his anger, the number of nails hammered daily gradually dwindled down.

He discovered it was easier to hold his temper than to drive those nails into the fence. Finally the day came when the boy didn't lose his temper at all.

He told his father about it and the father suggested that the boy now pull out one nail for each day that he was able to hold his temper.

Many days passed and the young boy was finally able to tell his father that all the nails were gone.

The father took his son by the hand and led him to the fence. He said, "You have done well, my son, but look at the holes in the fence. The fence will never be the same. When you say things in anger, they leave a scar just like this one. You can put a knife in a man and draw it out. It won't matter how many times you say I'm sorry, the wound is still there. A verbal wound is as bad as a physical one."

The boy looked up at his dad with tears in his eyes and said "I understand now, thank you dad". His father gave him a hug and said "I know son, I love you" Both of them learned from this lesson and were forever changed by placing nails in the fence.

Remember...
"ANGER" is just one letter short of "DANGER"

It is so true and I am hoping that it will strike a cord with him.

Jade

Dear Jade,

Nice story about the nails not coming out. The Love Buster still leaves the Love Busted.

I am confident that Boredom will serve in some instances, for me.

Perhaps keeping the same subject, but just asking for a more loving approach, is a very direct approach on the issue that concerns us.

Need to get further along in my Patterson book.

My 25 year old son told me last night that he felt he would be finished with Dale Carnegie when he finished the Graduation Class Monday. There is one class he missed, that he has a year to make up. I was irritated that he did not want to think about making up the missed class, but simply agreed that the main target for now was the 3 minute speech for Monday evening.

My son also told me that he was having touble getting along with his boss and co-workers at his two day per week waiter job. He said he was thinking of quitting and getting a job with more shifts. He said his boss was giving him criticism, instead of instruction. I told him that I kept a notebook at work to try to keep track of what my bosses want, and stayed ready to change, as the bosses change the emphasis on what they want. Perhaps I could serve as his secretary, and write down recnt lessons fro him form work, into the home computer, so he could reviesw the lessons over time. Apparently he forgets what he was told for certain infrequent situations, and has no way to review the instructions he received 12 weeks ago, or longer. I have been of assistance to my son serving as a secretary, in the past.

My son has a second, part time job, for a fixed hourly rate, which is fairly low, but probably commensurate with his market value. The hours are flexible, so I suggested that the choice was as to how much time he spent looking for a better job, in realtion to how much time he spent working at the second, part-time job.

Still, applying for jobs is my key tracking factor, rather than money coming in. I am not totally satisfied that that is the best tracking factor, but that is the best I can think of for now. Maybe getting off early to work and school? He has a habit of being late.
something like a habit of procrastinating.

My son needs to leave for school at 6:15 AM, Tuesday and Thursday, and he was gone, when I checked at 6:45 AM. I try to be his back-up alarm clock.

Best wishes,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

Dear Jade,

I am negotitating the way that my wife allows me space when I am feeling that I need some space, when emotions have risen above the point where I can respond thoughtfully.

Last Sunday, I told her that I needed some space and she was not totally cooperative, and I was not totally smooth.

I am intersted in my wife having strategies for giving my 25 year old son space, as he shuts her down with temper tantrums, or appraches to temper tantrums.

I am asking my wife to focus on a few items for improvement, for a week or two. We have a list of 10 or 20 items, for him to impprove, but we need to coordinate. I feel my wife shifts from item to item too quickly. I feel my wife undercuts my efforts to get impprovment in an area, by strting a fight about someting, or by defending my son from losing privileges for my enforcement.

Today my wife agreed that our son has many privileges beyond the scope of the bare necessities, but points out that he expects that level of privilege, and does not consider taht a reward. W suggested more rewards. I suggest that the rewards he is getting, be more contingent, so he will consider them rewards.

My wife is passive-aggressive. She lets things buld up. spoutes off, and then when faced with a temper tantrum from our son, backs down.

The disadvantages of that cycle is that it teaches temper tantrums, and there is no consistency to enforcement. It also teaches procrastination because the son learns to wait until the parent boils over before bothering to do anything. This teaching carries over to the real world. My son is a last minute person. He is frequently late getting up, late to College Classes, late turning in college homework, and last minute to work, and when he has problems at work, he is often late to work.

My son has few household room-mate skills, such as rinsing his dishes. He will put his dishes in the sink if it is a good day. He does not clean his bathroom. He does little laundry, and often gets piles of clothers confused.

I intend to ask my wife for increased producctivity in coordinating efforts for building responsiblity with my son.

Our emotional exchange Sunday started with my observbing my wife in my son's room, picking out dirty laundry. First off, everything on the floor was clean enought ot be re-worn. Second, my son feels antagonistic when things are moved around in his room. And thirdly, picking up my son's room is not the way to build responhsibility.

If W wants to fight about our son's room, great. Put it on the top of the list of 20 items, and give him notice that this is a focus for the next two weeks. Then put coningencies in place.

My son has finished the Dale Carnegie Course, which my wife used forebearance on Mondays from starting up with him. So my wife and I should celbrate that success. But, it is time to move on bigger goals.

Of course, as you point out, I could just rent an apartment and let them figure it out.

Best wishes,

Quipper
Marreid 28 years and still struggling

<small>[ September 09, 2003, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Hi Quipper.

It's been a while since I've posted. Things have been good then bad then good then bad again. I feel overwhelmed and tired.

Last night he was 2 hours late coming home from work and didn't even bother to call me. I don't care if he does things after work but I do care that he has no respect to call me and let me know this. It is a constant complaint of mine and I am tired of it. He copped an attitude with me last night because when he did finally get home he ate his dinner and when he went to throw away his scraps he was angry because the garbage was full in the kitchen. Mind you it was full because I had cleaned up the house and emptied the other trash and the kitty litter and put it all into the large container and hadn't had a chance to tie it up and take it out. Anyway he began to have a tantrum, I explained to him why the trash was full and he still slammed the frig. door. I then said to him "DON"T cop an attitude with ME, YOU are the one who was 2 hrs late in getting home." and then I left for about a half an hour. When I came back everything had calmed down and we actually had a conversation, it was him talking about something I didn't care about but I listened anyway and acted like I was interested in his topic.

I don't understand the big deal behind his anger about the trash being full. If you don't like it then empty it! That's what I would do. But I honestly don't think it was about the trash anyway. What I think is that he knew that I would be mad that he didn't call so what he does is try to be mad at me for something to take the heat off himself so that he doesn't have to take responsibility for himself being late.

I am so tired of doing it all. I work full time, I cook, I clean, I do the laundry, I take out the trash, I do the shopping, I do the bills and most of the time I mow the grass. Geez! I need a partner who can help out, even if it's just a little bit. I feel totally overwhelmed with having a full time job and having to do everything else too. It especially makes me angry that he has time to goof off after work and here I am slaving. Also he comes home from work and lays on the couch! It's not fair, when the hell do I get a break!?

Sorry about the ranting there. What I need to do is have a talk with him about showing respect and consideration towards me and also I need some help around the house. Those are the most important things to me and they have to be dealt with immediately. Of course there are other things too that need dealt with but I think that is plenty to deal with at the moment.

It sounds like you have some good plans taking place. I hope that all works out. I agree with you about what you've said about your son and him needing to learn responsibility rather than him depending on mom to pick up his room and do his laundry for him. I honestly think that at 25 he is old enough to be doing his own laundry. He'll learn to do his laundry when he runs out of clean clothes. He will not learn anything if mom does it all for him. This was how it was with my H. His mother did everything for him....now I am expected to take care of everything like she did. I fear that your son will end up expecting his wife (when that happens) to do everything for him and she isn't gonna like that. He has to be responsible for his own things and have chores and there has to be consequences if he doesn't do these things. Mom can't continue to do it all for him, he won't learn anything good from that.

Best wishes!
Jade

Dear Jade,

Glad the 1/2 hour break worked out positive.

I had a 3/4 hour session with my wife last night, planning for the 25 year old son. I asked her to plan for his temper tantrums.

There are basically 4 responses to a Temper Tantrum.

1. Give space. (Walk away)
2. Emotion back, which changes the subject.
3. Give in.
4. Change the subject, calmly

I encouraged my wife to recognize the disadvantages of getting emotional back.
1. That gives a false, misdirected reward.
2. It allows TT to avoid the original issue you were trying to deal with.
3. Emoting back creates a pattern of procrastination, where nothing gets discussed or resolved until emotions are high.
4. Emoting back can contribute to a downward spiral leading to reduced family teamwork.

My wife is getting the idea that she is contributing to my son's happiness by purchasing food he likes, and preparing it as he likes it prepared. My wife has asked our son to pick up his items in the living room, to be taken to his bedroom or the upstairs computer work room. She wants him to rinse his dishes and put them in the dish washer; and before leaving the kitchenette to fold up the newspaper, and place it in the newpaper box.

So far my wife has been asking, but not receiving. Planning for the Temper Tantrums is important for her to feel comfortable and calm, in enforcing any contingencies.

One rule could be: You eat out if your stuff is not picked up today and yesterday. Do not open the refrigerator. You open the refrigerator without permission, and I reserve the ethical option to take the food out. I am leaving the implimentation for her, but being ready to listen to whichever side needs to aspirate.

I used to empty the cat litter, when we had a cat, who graced us with her presences for a number of years.

Starting small may be wise, but is not the only way to start.

Best wishes,

Quipper
Married 28 Years and still strugging

<small>[ September 16, 2003, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>