My husband and I dated for over 5 years before we married, and he knew how I felt about his viewing pornography. I thought that it was degrading and that I should be enough for him...He didn't look at it out of respect of my feelings. Last year, I discovered that he had been looking at pornography quite regularly for over 2 years on our internet. He swore that we would stop. Of course, he didn't. We went to marriage counseling where we talked about our expectations. I set my limit at NO pornography and he agreed saying that he didn't really know why he did it. It's been less than a year, and he has already watched adult films while away on a business trip which he at first lied about as well.... I don't know what else to do....My self-esteem is almost nonexistent, and I can no longer trust his promises......I don't feel like I should have to negotiate on this topic.....Any advice???

conporno--<P>Have you read all the info. found at this website? Good stuff for learning how to negotiate and communicate.<P>I personally have no problem with my H viewing porn, and sometimes we'll watch videos together. Maybe that's because as I grew older, I learned that my dad looked at girlie magazines and my mom had no problem with it...and as a teen, I was aware of the sensuality my parents exuded for each other. Or maybe it's because I feel no threat from H's interest because it seems mild and he doesn't hide it when he has viewed porn. I know he doesn't masturbate while viewing. He's also a bartender in a strip club right now--I've had to conquer weird feelings about that, and yes, they ARE there sometimes! People here at MB have helped me a lot with that, pointing out that it's his job, a separate issue from arousal over nudity. <P>ANYway...I was wondering if you could approach the problem as the agreement you two have, instead of tackling the whole issue of pornography. For example, when you find out he's been viewing porn, maybe you could calmly request a discussion about it and say that evidently he's broken the agreement; what steps do both of you need to take to negotiate the subject? Really listen to his feelings, and express yours in as non-threatening/non-blaming ways as possible.<P>What are your thoughts about that kind of approach?<p>[This message has been edited by Lucks (edited March 21, 2000).]

Dear Conporno,<P>I will tell you this.<BR>I bet if you post a Q to get a response from all the men here you will get full participation that "MEN LOOK AT PORN" it is in there blood.<P>Now I have been w/my H for 15 years..I know that he has "girly magazines" I know that every once in a while he looked at stuff from the internet.Now this really doesn't bother me I would rather have him do this than look at the real thing.<P>About 4 months ago I really thought that my H was having an affair.(he is not)now I was going through everything I could posibly find in the files of our computer and found all of these "internet temp files".There were months and hrs of hrs in the morning that he was online looking.I was fumming!!!!<P>After I calmed down I asked him in a nonjudgmental way and a caring way if that was what made him happy.He said of corse not.I than told him that I didn't mind,but that it hurt that he was keeping secrets from me.I even went as far as telling him I was hurt that he even wouldnt' share it w/me.<P>Do you know what.........he hasn't looked since!!!!! I know this bc I can still bring up everything on the computer even if it has been deleted. I know that reverse psychology works for me every time.Maybe it will for you.<P>If there is no way that you can put up w/this than he is still LBing and he has to know that it stops or the marriage is over.Is this where you want it to go? Only you can deside.<P>My prayers are w/you. <P>

Read your post yesterday and have thought about it. Am a 48/M. In your post you did not state any specific objection to Adult Materials. Your Husbands agreement to your Demands/Wishes may be a more important issue to look at from my standpoint. He did break his promise to you and that I do not endorse. Am presently seperated here and would attribute it to an inability to communicate. In most cases in the past I went along with wifes demands. When I stopped problems occurred. Back to my question, What is your objection to adult Material??? Have read and heard from many places that Men are Visual. Is that a crime? Has your husband been true and faithfull to you? I do endorse MUTUAL AGREEMENT, but that does take two people openly discussing things. How are discussions on other matters in your household. <P>

Viewing pornography is an activity that your husband engages in that you find offensive. If you were to apply the Policy of Joint Agreement to your marriage then he would be prohibited from viewing pornography because it would not meet with your enthusiastic approval. If you have discussed this issue with him in a non-treating manner and listened to your husband’s point of view (with an open mind) and you still feel that this activity is repulsive then your limit of no pornography is justified and your feelings should not be sacrificed.<P>You are now left with an issue of dishonesty and his reluctance to give up pornography. <P>Let’s look at dishonesty first. Your husband knew how you felt about it and then decided to lie about it, why?<P>1. He felt that it was wrong, just as you, and was ashamed of his actions.<BR>2. He knew that you would be offended if you knew what he was doing, so he chose to keep it a secret.<BR>3. He felt that you would come down on him if he told you.<P>It may have been for some or all of these reasons. Radical honesty is important to a healthy marriage. The rule of honesty was violated here. Your part is to encourage your husband’s honesty by not being judgmental, angry, or disrespectful when he is honest with you, otherwise your are training your husband to be dishonest.<P> <BR>Now, why is he reluctant to give it up?<P>You said that your husband does not know why he does this. Here is the reason. <B>He does it because it makes him feel good.</B> Naked women make men sexually aroused and this is generally a good feeling. It is also common for men to masturbate when the are very sexually aroused and they are alone. If your sexual relationship with your husband does not met his expectations then pornography may be an outlet to fulfill this need. He may also have a sexual addiction. In this is the case then separating him from the source of the addition should be the first step. There are some people here on this board that are currently dealing with sexual addiction. Hopefully they will share some of there knowledge with you.<P>Here is a link to the Q&A section on sexual addiction. If you have not already, I recommend that you read all the material that Dr. Harley has provided here. <BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5050a_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5050a_qa.html</A> <P> <BR> <BR><P>------------------<BR>Scott

Hi cp!<BR>Sorry for the frustrations that bring you here. I must agree with most that in most relationships, looking/lusting at others is possible and even healthy... to an extent. It is when the extent crosses a very faint line that there is a risk or reality of addiction. <BR>Sexual addiction is something that many people (unless they have experienced it firsthand) do not understand and many of us who have spouses that are addicted wish we had never been given a reason for wanting to understand! One thing that I have found very challenging in this area as it relates to the forum is the "clash" between understanding/dealing with addiction vs. good intentions that can cause more harm than good sometimes.<P>If you like, you can e-mail me and I can provide some information, good places to get information on sexual addiction. I know the name sounds "awful" - I despise it myself but for many, it is a reality.<P>Many of the sites I have researched have some questionnaires that can help you determine if your husband does in fact have an addiction or if he is simply in need of enlightenment as to respecting your feelings.<P>My husband is currently being treated for sexual addiction. Just as there are more "intense" alcoholics, there are more intense SA's. Greatfully, he is seeking help and together using the MB concepts, we are developing a relationship that we had only dreamed of once upon a time.<P>I can be reached at L_I_S_A_M@yahoo.com<P>Cheers and good luck to you both,<BR>Lisa

I have been down this road and I know exactly what you're feeling! I've been married for 6 months, but my then-fiance decided that after almost 4 years together and about three months of engagement that he was curiouse about porn and he didn't bother to tell me about it. It happened two weeks after we talked about porno's and he told me that he didn't need a manual and that he could never go and rent one because he would be way too embarressed! I found the tape in his file cabinet while I was looking for a pad of paper and I completely flipped out! He had lied to me, and he hid the movie from me because he knew what it would do to me. He knew that I disliked porno and anything in the adult entertainment section, but he thought I wouldn't catch him. I felt like I wasn't enough for him anymore, like I wasn't what he wanted any longer. I confronted him with my anger and my hurt and he was very, very embarressed and ashamed for hiding it from me. He did try to take some of the attention off of himself though...he told me that he missed me so much that he didn't know what to do sometimes....that made me feel really good about myself. That had to be the lowest point I have been at in a long time. It took me atleast 6 months to trust him even a little bit....I couldn't even hold his hand without thinking about that movie! It made me sick knowing that I had talked to him either right before or right after he had watched it. But, I stayed with him because I had made a committment to him and our relationship. And I have to be honest, to this day (2 years later), I still have the occasional need to take a look around for any hidden videos. This is a kind of betrayal and a kind of pain that is hard to forget. Your husband knows how much this hurts you, and yet he still does it. This is a blatant abuse of your love for him, he's taking advantage of you and he believes that you will stay with him no matter what he does. You need to lay down the law. That's what I did. I told him that if he lied to me again, or if he went off and rented another video like that and didn't discuss it with me first that I would be so hurt again that I would not stay with him. Regardless of how much you love him or how long you've been married, he is being inconsiderate and just plain mean to you and you don't deserve it!!

Whew, Moma...I'd be careful about that "laying down the law" stuff if I were you. A threat to leave by an action/reaction may have to be "made good on" one day when you're least ready!<P>I feel there are better ways to resolve conflict than to lovebust by harsh judgements and emotional confrontations. Have you read Dr. Harley's principles? Read as much you can, and really absorb them. It's basic rules of a relationship that will help for the rest of your lives. <P>Keep posting. This is a great place full of wise people learning to cope with daily realities.

I'm sorry if my whole laying down the law thing seemed harsh. My whole message here is that you need to make it clear what it is you can accept and what it is you can not. It's pretty obviouse that the H in this situation knows what his wife can and can not accept, and yet he does whatever he wants anyway. When my then-fiance viewed a porno movie behind my back and hid it from me, and then tried to blame me for the whole thing, I was enraged and hurt and disappointed and I ended up feeling like somehow the whole thing was my fault. If we had not been engaged, I probably would have left him because he lied to me, and I'm sorry but there aren't many excuses in this life for lieing to someone that you love and are committed to. I firmly believe that the H in this situation is doing this on his own, with no thought as to what his wife wants or needs from him. This is not going to change by being supportive of him, by being nice to him or by doing nice things for him. You shouldn't have to end your marriage to this man just because of porn, but if it hurts you and you feel that you can't trust him and he is not willing to change, what kind of options do you have?? Trust is an integral part of marriage and without it, you really don't have much of a foundation to keep your marriage on.

I'm sorry if my whole laying down the law thing seemed harsh. My whole message here is that you need to make it clear what it is you can accept and what it is you can not. It's pretty obviouse that the H in this situation knows what his wife can and can not accept, and yet he does whatever he wants anyway. When my then-fiance viewed a porno movie behind my back and hid it from me, and then tried to blame me for the whole thing, I was enraged and hurt and disappointed and I ended up feeling like somehow the whole thing was my fault. If we had not been engaged, I probably would have left him because he lied to me, and I'm sorry but there aren't many excuses in this life for lieing to someone that you love and are committed to. I firmly believe that the H in this situation is doing this on his own, with no thought as to what his wife wants or needs from him. This is not going to change by being supportive of him, by being nice to him or by doing nice things for him and giving into his sexual needs isn't going to change it either. If anything, I would think that this would just give him the opportunity to view you as a sexual object,just like he does the women in the movies he watches. You shouldn't have to end your marriage to this man just because of porn and you should be able to trust your husband no matter what state (geographical)he is in. Trust is an integral part of marriage and without it, you really don't have much of a foundation to keep your marriage on. Can you find a way to rebuild that trust? Not while he's still watching porno behind your back you can't.<P>I wish I had a magical solution that would end the porno industry. It's a blemish on the face of society, to say the least. Men like to look at naked women, and it's fine if it doesn't become a problem in a relationship. But what he's doing is wrong...I wish I could tell you what to say or do to get him to stop. Maybe someone else here can help save your marriage. Don't let his addiction to porn (which is what I think it is) lessen your self worth. You are the same wonderful woman that he married, it is him that has changed, not you.

momma,<P>Thank you for your input. I believe that you're right....He will continue to do it...We looked over some of Dr. Hayle's basic concepts together last night. He said that the core problem is that he really doesn't care about my feelings because he doesn't feel like I really care about his (which really hurt). He said that he feels like less of a man because he helps with our 7 month old and 5 year old along with OCCASIONALLY helping with supper or the dishes...I got the impression that he feels like his responsibilities lie outside on the farm and being able to come and go as he pleases as long as he's not doing anything he shouldn't be. Sounds like the stone ages, huh? Well, I work full time, too, and I believe that it takes two to raise a family and make the household work.....I believe that he was once again trying to avoid taking responsibilty for HIS actions.....The only thing that we've agreed on is not to argue. We're still discussing the issue even though I feel like it's going nowhere at all or in the opposite direction.....I've often thought that maybe we're still together only because we're afraid of a divorce and we both want our kids.....I don't know. I'm still just trying to sort it all out.....Thanks everyone for all of your suggestions......

conporno--<P>You've agreed not to argue. That's an EXCELLENT first step! <P>Sometimes an issue can be resolved by working indirectly around it. It sounds like there are several things going on here at once affecting your relationship.<P>Your H has opened up to tell you something important. He said he doesn't think you care about his feelings. When he feels that way, his taker goes into action and he will find ways to feel better for himself. This is manifesting by viewing porn (and possibly in other ways too--I don't mean sexually necessarily, but other things that might annoy you but that he likes). <P>One of the best pieces of advice I ever personally received was "choose your battles carefully." I stop every time I get irritated now to assess the situation.<P>Oops, H just woke up...I'll post more later.

Back...continuing...a lot of men don't get a sense of personal satisfaction from domestic duties. But they'll do it, to help us. Basic instinct tells them that's a woman's job, while they're supposed to be out hunting and protecting (in your H's case, working on the farm). <P>They DO want to come and go as they please and be welcomed with open arms when they return...to be completely accepted for who they are. Don't we all, actually. Now of course, reality is that men and women need to compromise to exist harmoniously. Especially when subjects are in total disagreement from opposite ends of the spectrum.<P>ANYway...when a man helps a woman with chores he instinctually considers not his own, his sense of self needs something to counter-balance that offset. (Works in reverse too!) <P>High praise may go a long way. A backrub at the end of the day, and compliments galore. Understanding the next time he wants to "roam," be that out with the guys or time tinkering with that engine. They yearn for that thing that makes them feel good--a return to their core, which is being a man.<P>I'm overly analytical anyway. I study my H. In the "dance" of give and take, he sure gives a lot more when he's allowed to take! Interestingly, he's more negotiable than I thought on what satisfies his taker side.<P>I would suggest while you and H are exploring how to make your marriage better in ALL areas...by both of you taking the emotional needs questionnaire and talking, talking, talking...that you tackle the subject of pornography a little at a time.<P>Discuss calmly, and politely. If emotions heat, back off and try again, later. Your goal will be the ability to talk about it and REALLY listen to each other's feelings, being able to reflect back what each other feels in your own words. <P>You'll gain an understanding of each other that will propel you that much closer to a resolution overall. <P>One communication technique H and I have learned (though still "imperfecting") is to not second-guess each other. You know...if I say that, he's gonna say THAT, and then we'll get nowhere. Don't DO that, because if you do you're not really listening. And...if your mind is set on making a point soon in the conversation you're glossing over something the other said that might really be important for understanding.<P>Avoid critical judgements, any comments made at the expense of the other. Preface, ad nauseum, with "I feel." Instead of taking immediate offense to something said, ask for clarification--it may not have been meant the same way in which it was received! <P>Your H probably doesn't find porn as distasteful and "dirty" as you do (obviously, since he likes it), so be careful in discussions to not force your feelings upon him as if he has to adopt them too. He just might SAY he does, but if he doesn't really feel that way you've accomplished nothing but shutting him down...and the basic problem still exists.<P>Your H's feelings are just as important as yours.<P>Once both of you are able to express and understand each other's feelings, you can start negotiating an agreement that continues to take both of your feelings into account. <P>Keep trying.