<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>I asked him if he planned on ignoring me until I leave, that he doesn't speak much to me at all. He deinied ignoring and asked if I had something in mind to discuss. Not really, I just wanted to talk to ya!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm not going to say anything more about the terrible way you initiated this conversation, Dara, since others have already addressed it. But I <I>do</I> want to point out something else: if you are feeling lonely with your husband around, and he is not doing anything that conversation would interrupt (like his schoolwork, for instance), there is no reason why you shouldn't take the initiative and start talking to him yourself. See, we're back to the unfulfilled expectations again. You expect him to know when you want to talk, but realistically he <I>can't</I> know this unless you <I>tell</I> him. Especially <P>When I suggest taking the initiative, I don't mean forcing relationship talks on him; for that you should generally ask permission first, or else he might start off wary every time you begin talking to him. But just engage him in light conversation. (His question about whether you had something in mind to discuss suggests that he may not be much given to idle conversation. Am I right? If I am, then it really <I>is</I> unrealistic for you to expect him to take the initiative in meeting your need for conversation.)<P>So when his mind isn't otherwise occupied, just tell him something about your day or your job; or better, ask him something about <I>his</I> day or his coursework (showing that you are taking an interest in him, which should be something of an ego builder for him).<P>Even when he <I>is</I> doing something you shouldn't interrupt, a light touch such as Tex suggested would be awfully hard for him to get upset about and is likely to be appreciated (whether he shows it or not).<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Anyways, I was telling him as JL so keenly pointed out how my control issues have kept me "safe." He was bothered by this, as he said that he has never done anything to me to make me feel insecure or unsafe. I acknowledged that. ...I have been in a trust none mode since childhood. It has kept me safe, but it has been my undoing also. It was difficult to establish trust with him when I never recieved it even from my parents. But that he has never given me a reason to doubt his intentions for me. He HAS always had me in mind.He could not understand this.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's great that you talked with him about this. It's very important to understand that all this stuff he's been blaming himself for is <I>not</I> his fault or his responsibility, and that <I>you</I> don't blame him either. If he can understand this, then he should start to feel better about himself, and that can only work to the benefit of your relationship.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I encouraged him to read my posts; but he said that he wouldnt do it. If I wanted to share something with him than I could. But that is hard to do when he automatically becomes defensive!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think it's great that you were open with husband about what is going on here, and I think it's great that you encouraged him to read your posts himself. This shows him some honesty and openness that hasn't always been there. However, I'm with your husband on this one. I think it's better if he hears these things from you. And I <I>know</I> it's hard to do, because it's terrifying for you, but I suspect most of the dangers are of your own imagining, or your own making.<P>Your husband is <I>not</I> automatically defensive. Look at how last night went. You approached your husband with a doubly provocative comment, and instead of him getting angry or defensive, you ended up having a deep and important relationship talk. He's cutting you quite a bit of slack already, and if you can avoid attacking him I think you'll find he's actually quite benign.<P>And there's something else really encouraging here. You started off the evening thinking that you needed to be careful not to "force" relationship talks on your husband. But here he is actually <I>offering</I> to let you share your feelings with him. Does that sound like withdrawal? I think <I>not</I>!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I wanted to be intimate, he said it would just cause problems. (MY fault, as I said to him in a rage last week that he is taking advantage of me, making me feel like a whore.) Well, we did, but he just lay there doing nothing really. No touching, kissing or the like. I kinda think he is testing me, to see if it will cause problems. Heck we did not even finish because I got a muscle cramp and he wouldnt take over. It made me feel pretty low, because I know that I am the cause of his withdrawl.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><I>Maybe</I> he's testing you, to see if it will cause problems. Or maybe he is afraid of too much intimacy (you already had an intimate conversation), because he is afraid of getting hurt. I remember when I went off to graduate school. I knew I was only going to be there a year, and I didn't want to get too close to anybody because I knew I would be leaving so soon. (I failed in my intentions, but that's another story.) Your husband is expecting to lose you in a matter of months. He has to prepare himself for that loss...<BR>

Dara and Tex,<P>May I be blunt? <P>Be very careful with the private emailing at this juncture...<P>Maybe the new account isn't working because it isn't suppose to right now... <P>I'm gonna go waaaay out on a limb and tell you what K says (and if you haven't talked to him, you've missed something amazing!)...<P>No private email with the opposite sex... and no secret accounts from your spouse...<P>...and I fussed at him about that... BIG TIME...<P>...but guess what? ... my boyfriend and I have a shared account, and we each have a private one too that the other has the password to... just in case (although I never see a need to break into his email, and he says he has no need to look at mine)...<P>Just be careful, okay?<P>...and as if you haven't guessed... I met my boyfriend HERE, at MB (and I'm not alone, there are others). So, once again, I have an insight borne of experience.<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>Hell I dont want a "written waruntee" that he will try. It may or may not work out. Just to be open to the possibility of "us." And my love for him; that it will not burn him again.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>OK, now it's <I>my</I> turn to be brutally honest (if I haven't been brutal enough before).<P>Dara, why <I>should</I> your husband try, when you keep telling him that <I>you're</I> not going to try? To start your conversation last night, you reminded him again that you were planning to leave him and go far away, taking his children with you. What assurance does he have that anything he does will change your mind? He's got to be aware that none of his efforts so far seems to have gotten through to you. If I were in his shoes, I would be feeling pretty doomed and hopeless.<P>If you want him to try, then I think you're going to have to do one of two things. Either you <I>tell</I> your husband that you intend to stay, or you tell him that you <I>want</I> to stay and <I>ask</I> him whether that's all right with him.<P>I dunno. Maybe I'm wrong about this. But that's the way I see it.<BR>

Thank you for your thought provoking post Gnome. I do have to go to work now <P>Will write later. You were dead on with your assesment Gnome. And I do think he is "testing me"<P>How should I approach the Tx issue? I worry that he wont be receptive to me staying. Maybe it will be better if I give it some time to let him see how much I love him (read plan A)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by new_beginning:<BR><B>Dara and Tex,<P>May I be blunt? <P>Be very careful with the private emailing at this juncture...<P>Maybe the new account isn't working because it isn't suppose to right now... <P>I'm gonna go waaaay out on a limb and tell you what K says (and if you haven't talked to him, you've missed something amazing!)...<P>No private email with the opposite sex... and no secret accounts from your spouse...<P>...and I fussed at him about that... BIG TIME...<P>...but guess what? ... my boyfriend and I have a shared account, and we each have a private one too that the other has the password to... just in case (although I never see a need to break into his email, and he says he has no need to look at mine)...<P>Just be careful, okay?<P>...and as if you haven't guessed... I met my boyfriend HERE, at MB (and I'm not alone, there are others). So, once again, I have an insight borne of experience.<P><BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR>Got it. Good point and I will respect it Sheryl. I am sure Tex does have honorable intent, I never thought anyother way. But, I agree that it might be percieved as hiding something from H.<P>Dara<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B> OK, now it's <I>my</I> turn to be brutally honest (if I haven't been brutal enough before).<P>Dara, why <I>should</I> your husband try, when you keep telling him that <I>you're</I> not going to try? To start your conversation last night, you reminded him again that you were planning to leave him and go far away, taking his children with you. What assurance does he have that anything he does will change your mind? He's got to be aware that none of his efforts so far seems to have gotten through to you. If I were in his shoes, I would be feeling pretty doomed and hopeless.<P>If you want him to try, then I think you're going to have to do one of two things. Either you <I>tell</I> your husband that you intend to stay, or you tell him that you <I>want</I> to stay and <I>ask</I> him whether that's all right with him.<P>I dunno. Maybe I'm wrong about this. But that's the way I see it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Keep up the brutal honesty Gnome please. I need it. You are right about my opening line. (I never did have to learn pickup lines )<P>ASKING him if I could stay is a great idea. To show respect for his wishes. <P>Keep it coming.<BR>Dara<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B> OK, now it's <I>my</I> turn to be brutally honest (if I haven't been brutal enough before).<P>Dara, why <I>should</I> your husband try, when you keep telling him that <I>you're</I> not going to try? To start your conversation last night, you reminded him again that you were planning to leave him and go far away, taking his children with you. What assurance does he have that anything he does will change your mind? He's got to be aware that none of his efforts so far seems to have gotten through to you. If I were in his shoes, I would be feeling pretty doomed and hopeless.<P>If you want him to try, then I think you're going to have to do one of two things. Either you <I>tell</I> your husband that you intend to stay, or you tell him that you <I>want</I> to stay and <I>ask</I> him whether that's all right with him.<P>I dunno. Maybe I'm wrong about this. But that's the way I see it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Keep up the brutal honesty Gnome please. I need it. You are right about my opening line. (I never did have to learn pickup lines )<P>ASKING him if I could stay is a great idea. To show respect for his wishes. <P>Keep it coming.<BR>Dara<P>

delete<P><p>[This message has been edited by Learning as I go (edited April 17, 2001).]

Just a quick note...<P>I don't doubt Tex's intentions either...<P>Just be careful because you are vulnerable. Even without realizing it, someone else can begin to "meet your needs" and before you know it, planned or not, you gravitate to that person instead of your spouse.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck