I have been reading the posts for a while. From reading here both the BW and OW who have a child with MM post here. I hope I fit in here. My story is so crazy I am half way embarrassed to post it. I will start at the very beginning.

I was married for 6 years. Lots and lots of problems. All from that we married to young to not knowing how to communicate. The last year of our marriage he had an affair with a MW. I was devastated to say the least. I would classify his affair as being an exit one. The MW he had the affair with had no real intention of leaving her marriage as far as I know.

Here is where things start to get really complicated. I became very good friends with her husband. He was as crushed as I was about the affair and we often compared notes. We got a little to close one night and slept together. It happened only once and we both felt terrible and very remorseful. We vowed it would never happen again and it hasn't. Right around that time his wife ended things with my husband and decided to give their marriage another chance. No more sitting on the fence kind of chance.

As you can guess I found out I was pregnant about 2 months later. I considered all my options and decided to have the baby. I agonized about telling him or not. By this time my marriage was so over and did not want my husband back. He was trying to make a go of his marriage and did not want to interfer with that. We ended the friendship when him and his wife decided to make a go of their marriage. Given the circumstances it would not have been appropiate.

I could not hide it for very long. I told him about my pregnacy. He almost fell out of his chair. I told him he could be involved or not. He did not have to worry about me asking for child support or any kind of involvement. He said he had some serious thinking to do. The next thing I know is that I am getting some very angry calls from his wife. She said I was lying, saying there would be a DNA test. She asked what it felt like to get revenge. I just let her talk. I really had no excuses to give.

His wife at first said that there would be no contact what so ever with my child if he ended up being the father. I had no doubts about the paternity. I don't blame her. I would have demanded a DNA test too. He was not involved with the pregnancy at all. I had my son March 11, 2002. He asked me to call him when he was born. My mom notified him and he came to the hospital to see the baby. He said he knew the baby was his but wanted a DNA test to set his wifes mind at ease. I had no problem with that. He said he wanted to be involved but he did not know how much he could be.

It took almost 2 weeks for the DNA results to come and of course the baby was his. By this time his wife said that she was okay with him being involved as long as the contact between us was kept to a bare minimum.

It has been very tough. I have so many worries. His wife is infertile and I worry about her resenting him. She hates me as much as I hated her when she was sleeping with my now ex husband. They come and get the baby 3-4 afternoons each week. We have a long term parenting plan drawn up where eventually we will share 50/50 custody when he turns 3. We already share joint legal. I don't worry about her mistreating him but I don't want him to feel unwelcome in their house because he spends a lot of time there. We are having differences of opinion on how he should be raised already. She interfers a lot but I would to. I would want to be involved in every aspect. It's just hard. I am sure I will be asking lots of questions and need lots of advice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Tiffany

Tiffany,

Welcome to MarriageBuilders. However...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From reading here both the BW and OW who have a child with MM post here. I hope I fit in here. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The people who post here are, for the most part, concerned on using Marriage Builders principles to restore and enhance their marriage. As someone who isn't currently married, I'm not sure how much applicable the advice you'll get here will be for your situation. And your situation is pretty tough---I'm surprised that you've already established joint legal custody, and are working to a 50/50 custody split at this young age (especially where child support doesn't seem to be an issue).

Welcome and good luck...

If only my OW could be as accomodating as you!

Seems like you are dealing with things the best you can, and you are sooo considerate of his wife despite her painful actions.

I think K might be right, we are mostly married here. You do have the unique POV of being both a BS and an OW, however! I've been haunting the infidelity and divorce boards, and you may find a home there, too.

It was interesting you said you were embarrased to post--I too, really thought my story was pathetic and unique until I came here and saw others who were living through what I am--in one way or another.

Hope this made your life feel a little less "Jerry Springer"esque, too!
EJ

Tiffany,
while you are not married you are in a situation some of us have been in, yours is different because the wife of the husband whos baby you had helped break down your marriage.
That is all water under the bridge and frankly if you are both going to co-parent you have to find the best way to deal with the situation. While you are not wanting to hurt their marriage and yours is over, it does not mean, you dont have to do what you think is best for your daughter.

My H and I share MY D with XOM and his W. I have custody and all this was done through mutual agreement. WE have issues to deal with weekly and try to stay on the same page where parenting is concerned.
We have both had to compromise at times and it has been difficult on us all at times, but we try and make the best of it.
The main advice I can give you is always try and treat each other with respect and kindness. such as sharing pictures and stories and such, keep the other parent in the loop so to speak.
WHile our situation is a little different on here, It is workable but not with out faults.

All parties involved do little things to ease the other ones mind such as... they take digital pictures when they have her and send them to me or OM calls and tells me when she does something cute or funny.
I send updates and if we are learning something new at home, then I let them know,so we could all stay work together.
OM and I discussed rules and issues about most of this so we were clear on how this would be before he told his wife he was going to be in her life, I wanted to make sure this was going to be a good thing for d not a bad thing.

If we have a disagreement and [they do happen]He and I sit and discuss it till we can agree on something to please us both. We also meet once a week and discuss d and any issues any of us may be having and yes husband knows this. It does my daughter good to see he and I react in a friendly way, after all none of this is her fault and as the parents he and I have a responsibility to do that.
His wife and I talk on occasion and certainly communicate about daughters well being. I have shared every picture I have ever taken of daughter and they share some they take with me.
But I am a picture happy mamma. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sharing is no fun for any one, and I see why some dont, both for the bs and the op. It isnt always pleasant and there have been a couple of times his w and I DO NOT AGREE, and we have had words, but when that happens, I just email it to him, explain my position and he handles his wife. I am not interested in being in there problems so I stay out of them. Sometimes she writes and wants to know about this or that with her husband I always say I would rather not discuss it and refer her to her husband.
I dont know how you can get on the same program with parenting, maybe a child psychologist could sit and work with you both, because you dont know each other that well it would be of great help for your child. JMHO
OM and I were together a long time years in fact so he and i know each others parenting ideas and have discussed them long before a baby came in the picture.
You sound as if you really want to try and while I see your concern and your being upset over what happened, you cant blame your self forever.

It is all over, time to move on and do what has to be done for that little baby to grow up and be healthy and happy.
I involve OM's wife in some things out of respect, But there are some issues that are just made by me and No one else, He and I agree it is his and my decision and that is the way we have left it. If there is an issue we cant resolve .. he respects my decision and makes sure all parties involve know this is the way it will be.
He is also very cautious to make sure they are very respectful of me, and those who are not are not welcome around his daughter. and I do the same with him.

Like I said continue to polite and respectful and some things you have to do you wont like, but isnt about you any more. . so grin and bear it..
I dont know any one ese who works it out this way, we are a little unusual, but even though at times I want to scream lol I do know I would prefer it this way than the alternative. we share b days and holidays, like next christmas, OM thinks we should come have dinner at his house and then go home and D can wake up with her siblings in the morning for santa... I feel he should have her christmas eve and I will pick her up and bring her home and she can wake up christmas... so the only thing we disagree on is, eating dinner at his house, But the cool thing is, neither one of us will be with out D in the holidays.

so compromise compromise the only way I know to do it.
good luck and welcome Maybe someone with better advice can come along.

DISCLAIMER
I am not suggesting this is the way every one should handle this . only this is how we have handled it and continue to handle it at this time. please do not take offense if this is different in your life. I can only speak of what I do in my life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ July 16, 2002, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

Thanks for your comments everybody. K to answer your comment about the custody situation it was actually my son's stepmom that wanted everything in writing and it got done very quickly. It was filed with the court and the judge signed off on it. I had no problem with sharing joint legal custody. I was not thrilled about the eventual 50/50 custody split but after consulting 2 lawyers I decided to go ahead with it. Where I live he would have very likely gotten him 40% of the time so what's another 10% of the time. I am happy with the arrangement we came up with. Neither of us will have to go 3 days w/o seeing him. Child support is a non issue. He pays for daycare and I pay insurance and unreinbursed medical. Educational expenses will be split 50/50.

EJ I was very nervous about posting. It did feel like Jerry Springer guest. It is so hard to explain this situation to people. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I feel much better about posting now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

mom of five-
That was some very good advice you gave me. I am hoping eventually we will be able to get to the point where you are at now. How old is your daughter? The feelings on both sides are raw. Like in your case we have had words but it was while I was pregnant. Since my son has been born we try very hard to be civil to each other. Compromise is the key your right about that. It's very hard though. You have been able to get to the point where you can make a decision w/o her being totally involved. xOM does not know how to handle his wife. She wants to be involved in everything. Sometimes I get very frustrated. Then I put my BS hat on and put myself in her shoes. I don't know how long I can continue to do that. Most of the communication is done in e-mail. It would be nice to talk with him weekly and just us make the decision but I just don't see it happening. That child psychologist is sounding better and better.

<small>[ July 16, 2002, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Tiffany0987 ]</small>

I dont think handling her is the right word.
This is my daughter and his daughter and he and I both believe THAT he and I are the only ones who make decisons. But we are both married and our spouses influence our decisons. I can always tell when a choice has his wifes name on it. sometimes I agree other times I dont.
He always knows when an idea comes from my husband.. sometimes he agrees sometimes he doesnt.

He doesnt like my husband any more than I like his wife, but we all try so hard to be nice.
Hard on every one at times.
But my daughter is happy.
You have a such a battle with in your self knowing this woman hurt your marriage as well. I can see why this would be hard. I hope she keeps this in mind as well.
dont beat your self up, just keep praying for patience.
we all need it.

I need to rephrase this, when I meant handle his wife, I meant if there is an issue she has a big problem with and I feel it may cause us some problmes instead of arguing with her about it. I tell him, he and I discuss it and then he takes care of what ever the issue is, because I do not want to fight. so handle her was just a figure of speech. dont any one get upset.

Bad choice of words.

<small>[ July 16, 2002, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

I don't want to offend anyone either when I said xOM does not know how to handle his wife. He just lets her do all the talking and it makes communication between us very hard. It's just his way of keeping the peace.

mo5
I sometimes think she has "forgotten" how she hurt my marriage. She stayed on the fence for a very long time after D-day. She really has not taken responsibilty for her actions. I told her I was sorry for sleeping with her H and I meant it. She still has yet to apologise for having an affair with mine. Like you said before it's water under the bridge. It's not about us anymore but a little boy.

Tiffany you are a good person and a good mother that has thought about her child's wellbeing before hers. I hope that God gives you the love and peace you deserve for willing to endure the sacrifice in dealing with your xOM xWW.

God bless you and your child.

Tiffany said "He just lets her do all the talking and it makes communication between us very hard. It's just his way of keeping the peace."

Tiffany, I applaud your mature handing of the OC, and I don't mean to split hairs, but I'm curious if MM lets his wife make decisions because he's avoiding conflict w/wife (which really isn't your business anyway; and in my opinion many MM are conflict-avoiders), or if you are mis-reading the situation.

It is not unusual for the Betrayed Spouse after an affair to expect the custodial parent of OC to go through BS re:OC/visitation rather than the man who had the affair. This only makes sense in light of the fact that counselors recommend NO (or minimal!) contact between the former affair-ees!! If the marriage is to survive, if trust can ever rebuild, the couple has to do whatever necessary re: contact w/you.

I'm sure I'm over-sensitive to this issue, as H's XOW is STILL pissed that I take the lead in communicating with her re:OC; however, I do not say anything that my H hasn't approved of FIRST. XOW is demanding once again to only hear from my H, and says *my* gifts to OC "don't count" (HUNH? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ); she disrespects our marriage completely, and acts as if my H has no other responsibilities but OC (never mind a 16y marriage and our kids). Contact is definately NOT working for us, and the loser is her child.

I wish you well.
J
in recovery 4 years and glad I stayed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TMCM

What a very nice thing to say and very supportive, I am sure tiffany appreciates that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thank you TMCM. I do appreciate your kind words.

Jenny-

The more I think about it I really don't know how much imput he puts in. She handles most of the communication. The only time I know for sure is when he insisted my son have his last name. I wanted to give him my maiden name and my sons stepmom agreed. He was very adament. That is the one and only time that I know of where he did not agree with his wife. I have no idea how there marriage is and how they communicate. I just assumed his current stance on things was to keep the peace. We simply don't talk about it. Like you said before its none of my business. Contact is very limited.

As far as the toy thing goes that is very petty and immature on her part. She is just jealous of you. That is where we differ. I do respect xOM's marriage and have absolutely no desire to come between them. My son has a favorite toy and its one that his stepmom actually bought. It's a green frog. I hope the xOW in your life grows up a little bit.

I wish you well too,

Tiffany

<small>[ July 22, 2002, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Tiffany0987 ]</small>

Something I just found out? (from a BS perspective)...

If the paternity test indicates that baby is a dad's in AZ, the surname automatically gets changed. Cool for us, not cool for our xOW who wants to erase me all together. Now my last name is the same as my step-son's (who I have STILL not met ack ack ack).

EJ

EJ,

I am not sure what the law says in my state. At the time I felt it would be easier if he had my maiden name. I had it restored after the divorce. He has his last name now. We took care of all that when we filed the parenting plan with the court. We only argued about it for all of 10 minutes. I did not make a huge issue out of it. I hope you get to meet your stepson soon. It's best to have everything written in black and white. It will strip her of her power. Whatever you do don't agree to reasonable visitation. My brother had that and it was whenever his ex wife felt like it which was not very often. He had to go to court to get very specific times and dates.

Take care-

Tiffany

Tiffany,

Thank you for your kind words. The other couple is lucky to have such a mature mom to deal with--pat on the back to you!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Until now, I missed the part about MM's W being YOUR XOW: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ! My apologies!! Good Lord, what a complicated situation, so you are all the more mature for putting your son's feelings first, in relating to this couple. My sincere sympathies and prayers.

J

Hi Tiffany,
Yes, MB is the best place for you! I believe learning the principles set forth on this site will definitely help you be a better wife & mom should you ever remarry.

Another thing is that you can read about all the affair survival tips on the Q&A section from Dr.Harley so that you can assist MM and his wife in their recovery... (probably by keeping "love busters" to a minimum) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Love busters are selfish demands, angry outbursts--perhaps those would be the only ones that would sort of apply to you being on the outside... (?)

I guess the point is to focus on what is best for your family, and getting along peaceably with MM and his BS are definitely in your best interest. At least the pregnancy and newborn promptly ended everyone's infidelity, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Yeah, that's exactly what happened in my case too... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Oh well, I believe God has a plan for the unplanned. So, hang in there! Best wishes in "affair-proofing" your next marriage. This site has great advice and tools for learning how to protect yourself from your weaknesses and protecting your marriage. Read all you can and learn so you can equip yourself with helpful tools for your bright future.

Jenny yes this is a very complicated situation. I sometimes lay awake at night wondering how I got myself in this situation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Bintheredunthat-

I have read the MB principals. I did a very close version of plan A with my then H. I wish I had found this place sooner and read about plan B and been able to make inprovements on my plan A. I stayed on plan A way too long. My love bank for my ex husband is a -111,008,173.

It was only a one time thing between me and xOM and my ex's OW ended their relationship right around the time I found out I was pregnant. I have a very hard time thinking of myself as an xOW but I was one for a few hours and that was enough for me. I think we have all learned from this with this exception of my ex husband. Binthere I am curious is the OC yours or your spouses?

Tiffany

Hi Tiffany,
OC is mine. I have been married for 9.5 years and OC is going on 20 years old. I was single at the time when I met the MM. I raised OC with no contact and CS was coordinated all through the court system and ended a couple of years ago. That's it in one sorry little nutshell... But even so, we are a thriving family today.

I don't see why you wouldn't think you fit in here. You sound like you're interested in MB-related subjects. Your situation is unique, but there are many, many great moms here, with unique situations as well and IMO, who could help you sort out future dilemmas you may find yourself in.

Too bad things didn't work out with your M, but there are good, wonderful men out there who will accept you, your OC and your past--if he is willing to leave it in the past as my H is. That's the only way it could work. You know, with someone who has an open mind and sees you for who you are today and won't judge you for what you did. Someone who can love you and your child and make a family in spite of your past and up for the challenge of co-parenting your OC together with the x-OM's family.

It's a lot to ask of someone, but it takes a special someone so keep the faith! I'm sure he's out there... You think there is any chance of that person being your ex??? WHAT IF???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Tiffany--

Thanks for the advice on visitation. I unfortunately don't have much say--and my H is dragging his feet (watch me attempting not to LB). I keep giving him gentle advice that I learn here and elsewhere, but if I've learned anything about that man it is that he is gonna do what he is gonna do--he learns lessons hard. Oh well.

Still, any advice I can get is good advice.

Hope things are going ok for you! I think you fit in fine here--the feelings of frustration are the same, anyway!
EJ