</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AnnieK:
<strong> OW don't understand such concepts as the marriage coming first, or the needs of their children coming first. If a father is so important to them, why don't they put their children up for adoption so they can be raised in an in-tact, two parent home? Oh, that's right, I forgot, that would require a selfLESS act. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Annie, because 2 people concieved a child out of sin the person carring that baby and bonding should just toss him/her away? I would say the selfless act is taking the responsabilty for the actions taken. I realize the only legal obligation is cs., but I've seen two post now that you repeated yourself about adoption. I'm capable of raising my child without the father. He will pay cs.....he helped make this child, but as far as being in her life.....oh well...it's his cross to bear, and if he CAN live with that than great. I'm doing what's best and what I feel I can live with.

Pepperband...I agree with you...I was not the one who compared a MM's decision to NC to a mother dumping her child in the trash. Just so you know.

Catnip =^^=

I know Cat, I know
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by needtomoveon:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AnnieK:
<strong> OW don't understand such concepts as the marriage coming first, or the needs of their children coming first. If a father is so important to them, why don't they put their children up for adoption so they can be raised in an in-tact, two parent home? Oh, that's right, I forgot, that would require a selfLESS act. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Annie, because 2 people concieved a child out of sin the person carring that baby and bonding should just toss him/her away? I would say the selfless act is taking the responsabilty for the actions taken. I realize the only legal obligation is cs., but I've seen two post now that you repeated yourself about adoption. I'm capable of raising my child without the father. He will pay cs.....he helped make this child, but as far as being in her life.....oh well...it's his cross to bear, and if he CAN live with that than great. I'm doing what's best and what I feel I can live with. Also, as a other women, I do take marriage seriously. OK, for the 100 time, I'm admitted I've made a grave mistake, but I'd still be married to my stbxh if he would of taken our marriage seriously and put it first, second, third, hell I would of even settled for 20th.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Adoption is not throwing a child away. It is giving a child an opportunity to grow up in a loving, two parent home. There are so many couples that are incapable of having children of their own that can provide these kids with wonderful lives.

Children of affairs grow up knowing they were a mistake. Adopted children grow up knowing they were chosen. I know which one I'd rather be.

You brought up "responsbility". The responsbility of raising a child involves doing what is best for that child even if it means hurting yourself. Your child's needs are far mar important than your own desires.

Yes, giving up a child you have carried for 9 months hurts tremendously, but it is the best solution for all involved. The new parents receive the opportunity to raise a child they desperately want; the child has a shot at a normal life; the WS/BS get the opportunity to try to restore their marriage; and finally the OW, while hurting, knows that she did the right thing for her child and that she made the best of a bad situation.

I do understand that most OW would never put a child up for adoption. If they were capable of putting the needs of others ahead of their own desires, they wouldn't be OW in the first place.

Children DO NOT exist to fulfill the wants/desires of parents. Parents exist to fulfill the needs of children.

You guys are on a marriage building site. If you want sympathy and pats on the back for making one wrong choice after another, go back to the other board.

AnnieK

Annie: I'm sorry, I don't agree. I have twins, and basically I am raising them on my own. I concieved them with my xh through invitro, because we are no longer together and there father is mostly absent should I put them up for adoption? Yes, the ow should put (any women for that matter) them up for adoption if she can't hold a job and give them a roof over there head. Yes, if that person is an additic and can't put her child's needs before her own. Although the two parent thing is the ideal, it's not always the way it is. Although my child was a mistake, she will never know she was. I will raise her in a way that she will know she is wanted by me and my family and friends and there will be no bitterness towards her father. That is ideal for her to grow up and have a chance to have normal relationship with someone special. I already put the needs of my kids first. I'm putting the needs of my unborn child first as well. Adoption is a good cop out for the ws/bs so they don't have to deal with the oc. No one is asking them to see these oc. Just do what is expected by law. No matter what the personal feelings are regarding the contact. You want the ow to hurt by giving her child up. You as a bs have chosen to stay in the marriage and rebuild it. That is great. The ow has chosen to keep her child. That is something she can live with. I for one can't take back the mistakes I've made, but really now, it's over and everybody has to accept the end results of this. The bs, that she will with her uh paying cs for years to come, the ow that she was lied to as well and was dumped as soon as the the bs found out or got pregnant. The oc will never have her/his bio father around the bc knowing what happened. If explained right and the father takes his responsibilites with his family things can work out for them.....the same with the ow. Your forgiving your husband for this, why don't you stop and realize that the ow has feelings too and your making her out to be a monster for giving her child up. Not all ow are stalkers, and phone hanger upers and calling the xmm to harrase his family and give grieve to his wife. Just as not all bs are evil witches ready to pull the plug on the ow and her children. Adoption is a very selfless jester. I above anyone know this with what I've gone through in the past. It is about one of the most selfless things a parent can do under the circumstances of not being able to provide or as in a young girl not even able to take care of herself etc. 7 years ago, I would of loved for someone to offer me there baby that could not take care of it. Just because your single does not mean you can't take good and loving care of your child.

lynn,,,,,, your views are certainly distorted.

--------------------------------------------
The OC is NOT A SIBLING
--------------------------------------------
this is just personal opinion with no bases.
the oc is most definetly a sibling. 1/2 the mothers or fathers blood makes that c a 1/2 bro/sis. that is a fact. that oc may not be accepted by the bs's as an equal but that is the bs's problem.


---------------------------------------------
My husband sees the OC as the biggest mistake of his life.
-----------------------------------------------
and your h is misquided. he is placing blame on a child instead of taking responsibility for his own actions. that oc did nothing. he/she did not commit adultry, she/he did not break any wedding vows, and he/she does not deserve to be considered the biggest mistake of his life. the biggest mistake of your h's life was HIS decision to stick his sausage in a woman other then HIS WIFE. your oc is just a consequence to HIS biggest mistake.

TO ALL,,,,,,,, i have spot read this thread and it makes me wonder what kind of selfrighteous people society has created. sure these are extreme situations that we are all dealing with. but that does not mean one size fits all. for some nc is the way to go. that is fine if that is what works for them. for others contact works best. so what. but to see people continually blame
a CHILD for the actions of 2 adults is plain and simple WRONG.

ow need to understand that if a mm chooses nc then tough, move on with your life and deal with it. there are an awful lot of everyday dads that get a 1 night stand girl pregnant and are never heard from again by her. no broken trust issues but same-same with nc issue.

for a bs whose ws chooses contact. so be it. your mate's heart has been spoken. you don't have to like it or put up with it. now you have some hard choices to make. move on with your life and deal with it.

and the answer is NO, NO, NO. the oc deserves no special treatment. they are just CHILDREN and as such should be placed on an even playing field with ALL children. that does not mean that contact is a must just that they don't deserve to be the scape goats for what at the time of their conseption were 2 (COUNT THEM) 2 selffish adults.

<small>[ November 30, 2003, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>

In my case H BEGGED OW to have an abortion or put the child up for adoption. He made it PERFECTLY clear that he did not want to parent a child with her. So are you telling me that now he should simply shrug his shoulders and say OK, if you want me to parent this child, I will. Even though I made it PERFECTLY clear I didn't want to.
As far as the old argument that if he didn't want children he should not have had sex. Why do we hold men to that standard and not women? If a women decides for whatever reason she does not wish to be a parent then she can abort, put the child up for adoption and in some states drop the child off at a "safe" location and walk away no questions asked. Then we all say what a selfless person she is or she was in such a difficult situation that she had no choice and no one will ever think the less of her.
But if a man says I am not ready to parent this child, I didn't want this child and he walks away he is labled a SOB.
SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS DOUBLE STANDARD TO ME !!!
If a person should not have sex if they don't want children, then do not we, as a society, need to remove the option of abortion and adoption from women?

jtigger

Needtomoveon said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I for one can't take back the mistakes I've made, but really now, it's over and everybody has to accept the end results of this. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree completely but would say it just a bit differently... everybody has to make decisions that are right for them based on the end results.

It may not be right for everyone to accept the OC into their home and hearts. But I certainly believe it is wrong to make assumptions about a child based on your own pain and contempt for what that child's parents did.

I grew up in the "ideal family" -- at least that is what we were told years ago. Two parents who were devoted to each other until the day they died. A stay-at-home mom who made hot lunch for me and had dinner on the table on time. If your family did not look like the ones on TV than you were made to feel there was something wrong with you.

Already the idea of "ideal" has changed. The great majority of mothers cannot afford to be home full time -- they need the money. Look around you -- you will see many thriving and happy single-parent families. Some of those families started off as two-parent families but through divorce or death are now one-parent.

I could never see myself advocating either abortion or adoption for an OW simply to make my life easier as a BS. But for that matter, I also do not see any child being "brought up in shame" unless there are adults around like some on this thread to constantly drill in their heads that they were a "mistake". Personally, I don't understand how anyone could say that about a child.

The situation in which OCs are born are definitely not the best of circumstances, but I am sorry, I could never consider a child as a mistake.

Pops said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i have spot read this thread and it makes me wonder what kind of selfrighteous people society has created. sure these are extreme situations that we are all dealing with. but that does not mean one size fits all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">God bless you Pops for always getting to the heart of things. Everyone is free to have their opinions. But when opinions are presented as a fact, straight from the Bible, not to be argued or debated, then some of us have a problem with that. Where is the rule that says only children of a marriage are "real children"? Or since when are children so judgemental that they will say they want nothing to do with the OC because the OC represents the parent's betrayal? Sounds to me like something the parents are either telling the child or inadvertently showing the child through their own behaviour.

I speak only of my situation and hope that those out there who have compassion and true forgiveness in their hearts can be helped by my experiences.

When I found out my husband had a daughter with another woman, I had two choices. Deal with it or leave. As Needtomoveon said, this is one error of judgement that cannot be changed -- cannot be taken back. Wishing and hoping that the child was not created will not change it.

It is possible to have a rebuilt marriage as strong or even stronger than the one you had. And, it is possible to have contact with an OC without shame and disgust. But that depends on how you handle the situation and what the two parties involved (husband and wife) can agree on.

Every MM does not want to disown his child and merely pay the CS. If he is pretending to want NC because he sees that it is hurting the BS too much then sooner or later that need to be a parent will come out. It may come out in the form of sneaking to see the child (my H did in the beginning) or it may come out as accusations and bitterness against the BS many years later.

In the beginning everyone's feeling are too raw to consider this issue correctly. It is best to concentrate on building a safe place within the marriage before talking about the future with the OC. Then, I would be guided by each other's wishes, not any rhetoric that you read on an internet board. There is no "one size fits all".

The thing that really makes me mad is that there are so many BS's trying to "one-up" the OP. Waving a flag and saying "Look, he chose me. He never loved you. You were only easy sex for him." In reality, the WS told so many lies to so many people (especially the spouses) I don't see how anything that came out of the WS mouth during the affair or immediately after discovery (when they are convicing you it was all a mistake) can be considered as honest or true.

My H would have said anything to turn our marriage around. And isn't if funny that the A is only a mistake after discovery -- but it is not a mistake when it is going on for 2 or 3 years! I am not so naive. I know and accept that when my H was in the affair, he was saying the exact same things to the OW. He was telling her what a bad marriage he had, he would be leaving me soon, and he loved her and could not live without her.

The best thing we can all do is forget the past and deal with the present. I never expected the OW to consider me -- she was not married to me. I expected my H to consider my feelings and I held him solely responsible for not honouring his commitment.

All we can do at this point is decide what is best for our futures together and for our children's futures (the OC is my husband's child, just like mine are. She is also my children's half-sister.)

It is great to hear different points of view on MB, but I hope that everyone remembers it is not possible to transpose any one individual's ideas onto your own life -- each one of us has been tainted by our experiences (good or bad). And while some of us claim to have recovered marriages, you have no way of knowing whether one person's idea of recovered or happy is the same as yours.

Just my 2 cents and I am entitled to say it. Take what you need and leave the rest.

love,
heavenly

<small>[ November 30, 2003, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: heavenlybody26 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Children of affairs grow up knowing they were a mistake. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, but the children from my A will not be growing up knowing they were a mistake. Instead they will grow up knowing that their parents love them. They will know unconditional love and are treated the same as the kids born from the marriage.

Pops

You stated that it isn't a one size fits all situation. I have said that over and over. All most of the people here want is what they believe to be law. We all need to agree to disagree and move on.

<small>[ November 30, 2003, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Crazymum ]</small>

He will pay cs.....he helped make this child, but as far as being in her life.....oh well...it's his cross to bear, and if he CAN live with that than great.

Well, the "cross" of being an OC was made from sinful timber and constructed by two adulterous adults.

And, unfortunately, the OC will be the bearer of this cross.

You and MM did this to your child. Both of you. Not MM's wife, and not their children.

"His cross to bear" .... well, actually, I think this is a cross YOU and MM made for the innocent child to carry.

I realize this was not done with malace or intent to harm any child .... but was done with mutual weakness and self-deception. A serious lack of values and principles when the chips were down .... and I think that to raise this child alone can be done with good intentions as well .... but unless the adults who commited adultery embrace values and principles .... then this is the cross the children bear.

However, realize this, that when OW and MM, or MW an OM decide to commit adultery, they risk making a baby, and they just do not care who may or may not suffer consequences .... even an unborn baby. If you lie with dogs, don't complain about catching fleas.

If you choose a man based on his strong values and principles .... then this pain created by consenting adulterous "adults" would not be passed on to and carried by ....children....

Shame on the adults.


Pep

PS .... this post of mine is not about ANY one particular poster, but rather, a discussion about the philosophy behind many mistakes .... made by adults .... paid for by children.

<small>[ November 30, 2003, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Heavnly, thank you once again for reading WHAT I wrote instead of reading into what I wrote. You explained it excellent....once again.
Peper, you read into it. Yes it's his cross to bear. He slept with me as I slept with him. I'm not asking him to be apart of her life. Why would I want a man who has "prayed her death" apart of her life? But why should I bear all the responsiblity that it takes for her to grow up? We are both equally responsible for her exsistance. Bottom line. So I choice to keep her, and he does not want her, we all have to live with our actions and be responsible. I know I can give her a good home. I know I can teach her right from wrong. The mistake I made is over. It will never happen again. It was wrong. I can't take it back, but I'm not going to make another mistake to cover up the first mistake in order to make his or his wife's life easier and then me have to deal with the guilt and shame of doing something I can't do for selfish reasons. The only reason he wants her dead or gone is so he DOES not have to tell his wife, and face the music. Is that right Peper? Where does someone draw the line? The affair was wrong. For 13 months I made this mm first and his wants and needs. In the bs eyes that is wrong too......so keep on doing it? NOPE. Right is right and wrong and wrong. I prayed about what I should do (adoption or keep her) everything is leaning towards keeping her. And yes Pepper I've repented for my larger than life sin. I'm forgiven.

-------------------------
And, unfortunately, the OC will be the bearer of this cross.
-------------------------
this is exactly what i was talking about. it is NOT the oc cross to bear.

let me say this plain and simple. YOU MAY NOT LIKE THE WAY OC WAS CONCIEVED BUT THAT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO CHASTISE OR BELITTLE OR BERATE THAT CHILD.

ANY ADULT that makes any attempt to hurt a child for any reason should seek help immediately. because THAT ADULT is IMHO lower then the worst ow/om or wh/ww.

for God's sake their CHILDREN. they should be nurtured and quided to hopefully someday be able to live WITHOUT hate, bigotry racist attitudes, etc, etc. THEY are OUR future. if they are slapped for something that they had absolutely NO control over then how are they going to grow up without bearing the beligerent cross laid on them by some small minded adults.

and as for c's of the marriage not wanting to be around the oc that's a load of c$@p. if that is so then they learned that attitude toward oc by some grown up that had no respect for their own c's. so little respect for their own c's that they taught them to hate indiscrimanately.

i can tell you that there are 11 children that all love grace because the adults involved were able to put their personal hurts aside in the interest of ALL the childen involved. not just the oc or the c's of the marriages. no it's not the best situation on earth but we are all looking out for more then ourselves.

<small>[ November 30, 2003, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>

needtomoveon,
I am glad his wife will finally know the truth.

She deserves to know what her so-called husband has been doing behind her back.

After the truth is known, the two of them will decide what to do about it, what is best for them as a couple, or as a divided twosome.

Do not be surprised if they stay together.

Married love is far different from secret love.

Married love has family and friends to support it.

Married love has history, holidays, birthdays, christenings, shared together.

Married love does not seek secret locations or secret times to call.

Married love is open for all to know and see.

When the wife finds out in your situation it will be an awakening of sorts because I'm sure she has some indication of something being wrong at some point.

She will be shell-shocked for sure.

But if the XMM loves her, for sure he will bend over backwards for her, and help her pain be erased along with his own.

It's a sad situation for you.

It's equally sad for her. Mean or not. She does not deserve this.

So go for CS and do not expect much more if XMM said to abort....he meant it...his secret bubble has burst into an unwanted pregnancy.

I wish you peace and will pray for everyone involved.

Blessings.

love
Debi

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pops:
-------------------------
And, unfortunately, the OC will be the bearer of this cross.
-------------------------
this is exactly what i was talking about. it is NOT the oc cross to bear.

let me say this plain and simple. YOU MAY NOT LIKE THE WAY OC WAS CONCIEVED BUT THAT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO CHASTISE OR BELITTLE OR BERATE THAT CHILD.

I am berating adults, not children. I am berating adults who have affairs.

ANY ADULT that makes any attempt to hurt a child for any reason should seek help immediately.

YES, and the adults who knowingly have affairs HURT CHILDREN .... by making their children's lives a confusing mess. (No father. Fighting over visitation. Hidden DNA secrets.)

The adults who created this mess... are they the ones you are saying need help immediately Pops? That's what I am saying.


because THAT ADULT is IMHO lower then the worst ow/om or wh/ww.

I agree with you .... the adults who so carelessly create babies born into chaos and controversy.

Who else would you be angry with Pops? Someone like myself, who finds such behavior reckless and selfish?

The children are not at risk because I hate the ugliness of adultery .... the children are at risk because of their careless parents.

I don't chastise my own children because they were born to a heroin addict!

Their mother was careless, reckless, selfish, and she handed MY children a terrible cross to bear.

My children bear a cross of learning problems, behavior problems .... and it was handed to them by their mother and their father.

They have been as selfish as any OW or OM .... and BOTH are destructive.

Do NOT make my comment in any way to mean I have made a judgement about the value of any child based on his/her circumstances.

I am living with children who were born with strikes against them .... a cross to bear if you will .... and they had no say what-so-ever in the matter.

And OC, as delightful and beautiful as that child is, that child sometimes has NO FATHER because of the reckless sin of the mother.

Your wife's OC is the most blessed OC there is. Raised in a loving 2-parent home. There is no cross on her back. You are carrying her cross for her. Because you are a good and grace-filled man. If it were not for you, that child would not have such a wonderful family to be raised in.

Pops ... you are barking up the wrong tree with me.

Pep

Your wife's OC is the most blessed OC there is. Raised in a loving 2-parent home. There is no cross on her back. You are carrying her cross for her. Because you are a good and grace-filled man. If it were not for you, that child would not have such a wonderful family to be raised in.


Amen Pepper, Amen!!!!

And pops, we raised our son right! He despises oc and says it's not his sibling! It's his right I guess and I concur with that and my H does also...3 years out of the fog...I'll bet ow's H is greatful for the cs money and none of us in his face!

Debi

Gemi, thank you. I do appricate it, and we all need the prayers that is for sure. To be honest though, I don't think he'll tell until he is served. This is the 3rd time he told me he was going to tell her. He is scared of her....even my xh is scared of her and he is a big man. Is there really ever a good time to tell? Now the holidays are here and then birthdays will come up.....etc., you get my point. I do appricate the gesture and like I said we could all use the prayers.
Mary

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by needtomoveon:
<strong> Gemi, thank you. I do appricate it, and we all need the prayers that is for sure. To be honest though, I don't think he'll tell until he is served. This is the 3rd time he told me he was going to tell her. He is scared of her....even my xh is scared of her and he is a big man. Is there really ever a good time to tell? Now the holidays are here and then birthdays will come up.....etc., you get my point. I do appricate the gesture and like I said we could all use the prayers.
Mary </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Also, I know he'll never leave his wife. I knew that last Feb., when he found out she had lied about there bills for over 3 years. I do for a fact that she lied cause I knew the whole situation way before our relationship was even thought of. I just was not strong enough to leave him then. It's a long story about the above. I won't go into it. She also had status in the community and that means more to both of them than there problems. Which is there choice. I could of blown this whole thing myself out of the water when he did not go through with his word the last time regarding the DNA test, but it would of been for the wrong reasons and I have to live with myself. He's making this whole thing harder on himself and there is nothing I can do about it. I think these men that can come forward and accept that there life may change by being honest are bigger men then the ones that hide it until they are forced to be honest.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by needtomoveon:
<strong> Gemi, thank you. I do appricate it, and we all need the prayers that is for sure. To be honest though, I don't think he'll tell until he is served. This is the 3rd time he told me he was going to tell her. He is scared of her....even my xh is scared of her and he is a big man. Is there really ever a good time to tell? Now the holidays are here and then birthdays will come up.....etc., you get my point. I do appricate the gesture and like I said we could all use the prayers.
Mary </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This MM really sounds like major bad news.

Get your child's CS legally established .... and then forget you ever saw his face

Never speak with him or her .... always solve problems through your attorney.

Your life should be as UN-tangled from MM and his family as possible.

Prayers for you.

Pep

The thing that really makes me mad is that there are so many BS's trying to "one-up" the OP. Waving a flag and saying "Look, he chose me. He never loved you. You were only easy sex for him." In reality, the WS told so many lies to so many people (especially the spouses) I don't see how anything that came out of the WS mouth during the affair or immediately after discovery (when they are convicing you it was all a mistake) can be considered as honest or true.

Heavenly,

So right! H lied during the few months after d-day...remember our e-mails?

Most bs me included are NOT WAVING A FLAG!

I was ready for divorce sweetie, remember?

Ow was easy sex. Plain and simple. Made H feel young and alive again. For a moment. When he tried to stop it she threatened to tell.

My "friend" then conceived oc.

So after d-day and all the bull we are together again and doing just fine.

H never wanted oc. Our son finds oc disgusting....he's old enough to make his own decisions thankyou.

So get off your high horse and do what you and your H must do and accept oc/D! Do it! With our blessings....don't you dare tell us that we must accept oc or suffer repercussions from our H's. I for one will leave in a New York Minute after all we discussed if H ever does that after everything else that's happened.

A huge difference is your H sneaked and bonded for a while before you found out. Didn't happen here.

Perhaps your h cannot forget his precious D and you have come to accept that.

Go on with MB blessings.

Know that we support you. And we will.

Just quit with that soap box drama of oc and bs accepting as if it's all ws will...it isn't.

You can all go back to your regularly scheduled program now.

love
Debi

Pops, I couldn't agree with your post anymore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Heavenly, I wish you posted more often. I've always been extremely enlighted by the way you think <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> .

Needtomoveon, Points taken very well!

Yes, this is a marraigebuilding site. I hope that the passion that some of you feel in making the OW and the OC out in being such horrendous villians in your life, that you have energy left over to focus on your family and marriage, because that's whats important to you.