I've been a spectator of the "OW Board" mega thread. I must say, it has been very interesting to watch things unfold while taking various twists and turns. I've also learned a lot. Of course, it's difficult for me to keep my big mouth shut, and not post at least once on a big thread, but it was one of those times I felt I had absolutely nothing to offer, and I really still don't.

However, a few things jumped out at me, got me to thinking and pondering some "what-ifs". Especially this:

What if it was law that the married couple should have custody of the OC, no matter if the couple is comprised as WH & BW or WW & BH? Either way, the OP (yes, even if OP is a woman, therefore the mother of OC) would have to basically step aside. Now before people go nuts, I'm not saying I'm necessarily advocating this. It's purely hypothetical, mostly to get to my question of: Would some BW's, under those circumstances, want to have custody of the OC, and be willing to raise the child as her own with her FWH,as many BH have?


Now, the things that got me to pondering, and wanting to ask the question above, were the following 3 quotes, 2 of Pep's, and 1 of JL's (2 posters who are very good at getting people to think, I might add <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ):

Originally posted on pg. 10 of "OW Board" thread, by Pepperband:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> AND .... an additional question:

Are YOU saying that an OC born to a married woman who's husband has agreed to raise that child as one of his own .... are you saying the OM has a *moral obligation* to negotiate with that intact family and that he must participate in raising the OC?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JL on pg. 11 of "OW Board" thread:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I would suggest to you, that the logical, the most loving, the financially best thing for the OC is to be in the home of the married person. The family is there, the money is there, the siblings are there.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband on "What's wrong with an OC and father relationship?" thread:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Originally posted by pointofview:
So knowing that his family is truely the first priority, how do I find the balance between letting his family rebuild and him making me completely responsible for the pregnancy and the baby.

How about this:

You surrender full physical custody to the baby's father .... the baby doesn't have to be shuffled between two homes.

You can have visitation.

Pep


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really am curious to know if BW would accept OC into their lives if they were able to be the mother to the OC, w/ no interference from the OW as my H is able to be the father to my OC w/out interference from x-om. I believe the vast majority of you would.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not out to prove any negative points, and I'm not trying to be a smart-A. I do believe though, that most couples would be able to raise, love and nurture an OC if given the opportunity to do it alone as a couple, with marriage and family intact, and no OP interference. Am I correct, or am I way off base here?

I understand many times there are 2 married couples in the equation, however I am asking my question in terms of the OP being single.

Lastly, I want to say, whenever I see debates on NC v. C and "it's abandonment" v. "no it isn't abandonment", I immediately say to myself, "thank God my x-om 'abandoned' my OC, and it will be the worst time in mine and my H's life IF x-om ever decided to come back and do what is 'morally', and/or 'legally' right!" Of course, this is my POV, considering my situation. I think most of us usually see things according to our situation. Thus, I don't see an end to the debates any time soon.

Take good care.

~aut

<small>[ December 04, 2003, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

Autumn in places like Jamaca like 20 or 30 years ago, that is what happened. I have a girlfriend who is from there and we have talked about some of her friends who come to find out where raised by the uh and his w as there own from a result of the uh having an affair. I'm sure other counties are known for it too.
interesting point though.

would I have raised OC w/out XOW?

Absolutely yes, no problem. Would've totally preferred that--of course was not an option.

I would raise OC as my own, if OW would fall off the face of the earth..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

(even though oc is the spitting image of her mama!)

If I never had to deal with OW, I'd adopt the OC in a heartbeat.

Twiisty

Iwould take the OC in our home only if we HAD to and if all of OW remaining relatives were passed away or otherwise unavailable . I wouldn't want contact with OW ever or any of her family. At least that's my feelings today. I think about her (oc) every day but today, I would not seek counsel if I didn't have to. Sorry.

Yes,

I would raise OC she innocent as far as I'm concerned. Even if exOW was around and had visitation.


Tee

I would gladly raise OC. He needs more of a stable life than what he is getting with OW.

Scarey thinking that my home is more stable that hers....

Ladies~

Your answers are pretty much what I thought. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

also, Crazymum...regarding your last sentence...consider yourself hugged. You seem like such a sweetie, with much too much on your plate.

~aut

Well I don't know what I would do, never having been in that position. But my step-daughter left her H and got pregnant by a married man she was living with. He immediately asked her to get an abortion and dumped her. We encouraged her to have the child which she did. She and H never got back together, but her H has been a father to this boy, and the best father ever. The boy is 8 now, and the BH continues to pick him up every week, has him for weekends, coaches him in baseball and soccer and is just wonderful. I don't know how he does it, but everytime I see him I tell him how much I love him for being such a good man. The boy's sperm donor has never seen him. It is so sad, but just shows how some people can rise above everything, while others can't. I am so thankful for this man's loving spirit.

Yes, this is an easy answer. The OC is not the problem it's the meddling OW.

It really would give the OC a more secure existance and better quality of life. Am I saying OC mother is a bad parent? (wacky but not bad) No, but this way the OC would have a "mother" and "father" and not have to be shuffled back and forth to achieve that.

ALthough OC acts totally fine @ our house, OW says when OC returns to her, she is a mess. So I can see where having to go back and forth might really be taking it's toll on OC and be stressful on her. Just when OC is starting to get into the "groove" of being w/ us, and BC are getting it together w/ her being here, it's time to go "back" to OW. I think it just totally sucks for OC.

We alternate major holidays and I'm thinking, this is totally gonna suck for OC, like for example, we will have her the 1st half of Christmas break then OC will be picked up @ 12 noon on the 25th. Sooooo, she just barely opens her gifts and then has to leave. What fun is that for a child? It's like walking all through the candy store but you can't have any!?!

And the problem most of us BS have w/ C is the OW NOT the OC, so if we had full custody-----solves the "problem".

I wish this could be a reality.

KT

When you mention that the OW states the OC acts up when returning from being your family, ever think of it as the OC doesn't want to go back with her??

Maybe the OC is so comfertable and feels the love at your house, stuff she probably doesn't gt much of at home, that she wants to stay with you?

I would gladly have taken the OC and raised her with mine, made her mine. However all contact with OW would be totally out

TG

I haven't read the thread you mentioned, but I'll give you my opinion. We do have custody of the two children that were born from my husband's affair. We have no contact from ow at all. We have primary residential custody, but she still has half custody and rights to supervised visitation. She has opted not to pursue that. We sent a letter once to her and we sent a letter once to her family offering visitation. Just trying to do the right thing. But there was no response to either. I don't really understand how she could just drop two children, but life has been much much much easier on us and the kids than if there was contact. That makes sense though doesn't it. I mean if yours is the only opinion, then there is no reason for conflict!!

On the other hand, I will tell you that initially having these children thrown into my life was really tough. I had just found out about the affair not long before we began pursuing paternity and then visitation. We did not pursue custody. It was dropped in our lap. We did not even have a dna test. But poof, we, no, hubby had the responsibility for two toddlers. I still have no rights to the kids. I have to have a permission slip from hubby to take them to dr or anything. Actually as the wife I was not even allowed into the courtroom. I was not the parent and therefore not a party to this hearing. I did sit outside in the hallway. When we went to court, I was still trying hard to cope with the new raw feelings of the affair then suddenly I was also a mommy and trying to protect little innocent lives. I wanted to be selfish and alone and heal our marriage, but I as a decent human had to take care of these kids and do the best I could for them. It was really difficult but I buried my feelings because I was doing what I thought was right. I knew the children were innocent and that we were virtually on the same team, but I wanted things to be different and now they would never be as I had dreamed. I couldn't even pretend that he had been faithful because I had living proof sleeping under my roof. We obviously had to deal with all of our family and friends too. You just can't hide little kids!!

We never went through a true recovery and I think that is part of why he had another affair this year. Now I can tell you that I have come to an acceptance of having the kids with us. I look at them as adoptees. I take care of them. I am the only mommy they remember. I tuck them in and I say I love you. But we have had them for nearly two years. Someday we will tell them the truth, but for now they are in a mostly stable loving home. Things are okay now, but initially it was tough.

I also think things would have been easier if there had been healing first. My husband accused me many times of hating the kids and I think it is because he saw me hurting and knew it was associated with the kids but was not bright enough to realize that it wasn't them but the affair that hurt me so bad. Things also would have been easier if we had decided together to pursue custody instead of just having it handed to us. Poof surprise, uh we just were not ready in any way. And life would have no doubt been worse if ow had contact with us. So I get the bad and the good. It's okay. The kids themselves are not the problem, never have been. And they are looking forward to having a sibling real soon!

I would have loved to have been given the opportunity to have raised OC but I didn't even know that she was my H child until this summer. She is 9 years old. My D is nine years old also, and they are three months apart. OC has been a part of my life since the day she was born. My H had A with my best friend, and FOW's H is raising OC as his own. My H does not want to interfere with any of this. However I do feel the OC would be much better off in our home as FOW is now involved with another married man and 2 years ago she was caught having an A with her brother-in-law. I asked FOW H about why he tolerates this and he said, "whatever makes her happy makes me happy." She has 4 children and I think she is a lousy role model for all of them because I have heard them talk very badly about her even before I found out about A with my H and OC. I think their whole family needs counseling, but I was kept in the dark for so long that I don't even think my opinion matters.

crazymum: LOL EVERYONE says that exact same thing! I hate to think that though.

OW insists that OC does not want to be w/ us for so long and that is why she "acts out" when she returns...because OC was with us "too long". OW never would think it could be because she actually enjoys being with us and feels some disappointment @ going to OW's home. I have no doubt that OW loves OC and has a very loving family (OW parents and siblings) for OC (but hate us of course) but not much more than that. OW implys, sometimes, that OC is just not comfortable to share her "true" feelings w/ us, OC is afraid of "hurting us".

It could be true, but oh well. This is her (OC) life now, sorry. It was OW decision to get us "involved" so if OC has "emotional problems" I hold OW fully responsible. But OW holds us fully responsible and feels it is our fault for spending so much time w/ OC and not "listening" to OW advice to spend LESS time w/ OC. OW says she thinks OC feels "left out" (?????) of OW and other sibling's life when OC is away w/ us.

Who know's? Just another consequence, we all have to deal w/ them.

AD,
As you already know, We do have custody of the OC in our situation. And I am raising her with H.
OW has visitation now...

Lil Bit calls me Mommy. She calls OW, Mama OW...

I think anyone that has been on this board for the past 2 yrs knows that I am willing to raise this child. She is my child in every sense of the word, except for DNA.

H will ask her if she is Daddy's Girl?... her response???
NO.. Mommy's Girl!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before this summer's N/C with OW, we had problems with Lil Bit crying when OW picked her up. She would cry and say, NO.. Daddy's car!! GO HOME!!

She doesn't cry now when she picks her up... I think its because she knows she will get to see her brother, he is 8.
But, I try to "hype" up her going with OW, because I don't want her to cry.

She goes with her fairly easily now. But when she comes back, it is really obvious that she is happy to be home.

An interesting thread.

I would have raised OC's if they were 10 or under, and OW was deceased.

The problem is not the ocs', only the OW is.

ember

I would raise oc if it meant I could have my husband back and ow disappeared.

I'm in the minority I guess, my answer is NO! I have given H MANY,MANY opportunities to leave and raise all three of his children with OW on his own. (OW lost custody of all of her children). I don't feel responsible in any way to raise them. I don't wish any ill will on them but I don't want to parent them.

The OC was recently adopted and is in a home where both parents want her. Couldn't ask for more than that!

take care,
Why

I'm with you, Why....I say NO, too. Mostly because I have all I can do to put out all the fires blazing in my life as they are. I would certainly set up something wonderful for the child, like try to find a relative or see if one of my kids would take her and then be like grandparents to her. Maybe an overall family concerted effort..."it takes a village" kind of thing.

I might look 35, but I feel every year of my 50 right about now. I start school on Jan 12 and I just got my cat and my Mom is in tenuous health and I am kind of on alert for her. I just can't imagine taking care of a 4 yr old 24/7...although if push came to shove, I would probably handle it OK...love and humor go a long way.