We are doing contact. Baby is due in september. I need your advice on how to MAKE IT WORK. Some things maybe you did w/ talking to the XOW, how you acted. Lets assume all three of us are acting like adults and want to do what is best for the all the children involved, OC & BC. How did you handle problems? Should we have a middle person to so ok, since you cant agree then it needs to be done this away, besides a lawyer who collects money everytime they open their mouth. And even for her (OW) other child. What is he going to do w/ his brother gets to go w/a man he himself spent 8 mnths with and he doesn't get to go? Should we always plan to p/u and drop off when he's not there? What did you think?
Thanks Sunny <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Sunny,
You are right. Boundaries must be set early on.

I have some suggestions... but am just finishing lunch break at work.. so, I'll have to get back to you...

Sorry so short.. BBS

Stacia

I would never consider doing anything that wasn't done legally. PERIOD. To many people get bit in the butt later.

Also, when you say what is best for BC and oc, make dang sure that the BC are NOT being asked to shoulder this burden created by two selfish adults. What are the measurements you are going to use to decipher if the BC are ok with this? What are you going to do if contact is brutal and disruptive to them? Are you going to force them to accept this? Or are you going to cease contact?

If ow starts getting weird on you, then what? Do you have a stragegy in place? If she says yes to a week at the lake, then says no at the last minute, then what? Do you have this legally taken care of or does she get to jerk your chain?

How are family trips going to be planned? Is oc part of the family, therefore going to Disneyworld too?

Who will contact ow? Your husband? Are you going to be ok with them playing family? Are you going to contact her? Are you going to be happy having to include her in your life? Knowing when you will be going to your cabin and whatnot. What about your children. What if YOUR parents are taking them for a week on a vacation, and you and your H have a chance to be alone, and that is the oc weekend? How are you going to feel having oc around on what should/could be a hubsand/wife time?

Contact sounds so simple. I know of nobody who has had it go easy. I think if you are headed this route it is vital that you legally address every issue can possibly think of, or be prepared to be jerked around for the next 18-21 years.

I think you know where I stand on contact. However, your choice is yours to make. Please be sure to protect you and your children and not only think of "what is best for oc". Rememer to carefully guage how your children are handling this. What is the time frame you are working with? Are you expecting them to be all settled in with oc in one day? One Month? One Year?

I only worry about the BC in this situation since what is "best for the oc" is all anyone talks about. I worry the BC and them being miserable and yet being told they have to accept oc and the intrusion into their lives. This is not a normal sibling situation, and can't be expected to be accepted as such.

So, if you are choosing contact, have all your ducks in a row and really think out every aspect that could happen. Then have it set up legally.

Are you still going on your cruise?

The cruise is up in the air right now. We also have a funtion that we are going to on that weekend so, when exactly we will be on the cruise we are still working on. As far as our D who is 11 she doesn't know and is very nonshalant about everything. I don't think she will be too effective about the OC being there part of the time. But I do realize everything needs to be done legally and have all the I's dotted and T's crossed. So we are working the times and visitations based on her state and the age of the child. Whats good and whats not good. DO we want to stay in town for just a few hours visit? These are some issues we are tring to work out. And in her state to file for support and its NOT w/ your husband then they da a DNA test up front. They make you so its not me or H. I am fine w/C and my 17 yr old is fine w/ it. Doesn't nessasary want to BBsit the OC, but she feels that way about lil sis too. I need to maintane me sanity and since we are doing contact, I need some pointers on questions to ask, not to leave out this and that, ect. There is going to be such an age differnce between the children that contact should not be a problem. I just want to raise all of the children to be "normal" well adjusted children. We will have 17,11,0 I don't think I had many issues w/ mine based on the age difference. By the time the OC is 10, my youngest will be grown and gone. An I will more than likely be a grand ma by then. Its alot to think about I know. I've prayed about it, cried about it, and if you knew my H childhood you would understand why I would never tell him no contact. Nothing about this is going to be easy, I know that, but if I can do what, I feel God wants me to do, then I can do my part in trying to make it easy. Yes I have considered my H and my children, yes it will maybe hurt to see the OC for the first time, but if I didn't get to see OC I would still think about him every
time I looked at my kids, or grand kids. I'm that kind of person. Yes I do put others above me, just think if christ didn't put us above himself and what he felt in the garden? Where would we be? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Christ did not deserve to die for my sins, but I'm a better person because he did! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> My life will be what I make it and I will always do what I feel he leads me to do. I feel my H is commited to our M and we are getting stronger together! We are standing as a team on this and if the XOW could get over her anger then, we will be fine. I also pray for her to get over her anger, and realize she chose to do what she did and thats what she has to live with. And sharing her child w/me will be hurtful for her, but like I said no one thought of these things before hand and now we have to sort them out. But I will not be the cause of it not working and God will give me strength to get this done.
Thanks
Sunny <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Sunny,

I hope that you have realy thought this through and are not just going on what your H wants or needs. I personally feel that that is a great burden to bare. I would have to agree with LynnG. I think NC is the best way to go in my situation because my children are two young and this would cause too many problems in our family. I also have a 13 year old stepson and this would just devastate him so I will not risk my children's happiness for that.

I think and believe that my H wants the same NC because when we are talking about it he doesn't even want me to get loud about it because he doesn't want my stepson to know about it.

Please be sure that this is your decision and that you are making this decision based on what you want and what's best for your kids.

JT

What if H wants contact? What if he is so adament about C that it could end your M if you don't go along with it?

Right now I am just trying to focus on getting my H home and starting the recovery of my M. I was hoping this would happen before OC arrives in Sept. But as the time approaches, I am wondering what to do myself. I want to think I can handle C w/ OC. I don't think the OC will be the problem. I think having C w/ OW is a bigger issue. I know my H wants to be a part of OC's life. We haven't really discussed details yet because we are still separated. It may not be a decision that I get to/have to make. Like I said I am just trying to focus on saving M at this point. I really don't know what will happen if OC is born before H moves home. It all really scares me. Whatever happens, I just pray God gives me the strength to handle it.

Kris

Sunny, you know I agree w/ everything lynng has mentioned (BTW where HAVE you been lynn?). YOu have to think of every worse case scenario and have a plan on how to deal w/ it so that you can be prepared.

I do think it will be easier to 'accept' if you are there w/ OC as a baby, (while they are still innocent <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

First you have to decide what kind of C you are going to have. Will it be weekends only, every other or do you want as much as possible? This is a big factor. I know @ first, as an infant it would only be a few hours I would think but what about after that? Are you going to be involved in the daily life of the child, going back and forth to school or whatever?
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Get all your details set up in writing, legally and make sure it is enforceable and able to be reviewed and/or changed once a year, especially w/ a child that young, as they grow they should be able to spend more time away from mother and more time w/ father.

Create very clear boundaries. In Ca, the courts have mediators that will help you for free so look into that, I don't remember if you said OW is in another state or what so ...anyway, that is how you can try to get through any disagreements w/o the $$$$ for lawyers and hearings through the courts.

Also, I would establish, from the get go that you handle the majority of comunication, and no offense men but it will be better that way, women are more detail orientated and so when baby info has to be exchanged, we will be the ones to remember what to ask ect. This can also be handled in a log book that should travel back and forth w/ OC. Stating last diaper change, mood, feedings, medicinal instructions ect.

As far as scheduling conflicts, yes you also have to be prepared for htat too as Lynn mentioned. We have had that where we had the opportunity to go away as a couple and our marriage relationship comes FIRST. We established that between ourselves so if we are going out of town or something and are not taking BC with, then OC stays w/ mom. You can ask for an exchange of dates but it will depend on OW being disagreeable or not. OW would not exchange anything for us for any reason so...we just forfeit our time.

OC is also included in family vacations/get aways IF it is planned during our time w/ her. If not, then sorry, she misses out. We make extra sure to not just do fun things only when OC is with us, that is not fair to BC. You get the idea.

You know I can go on and on. The main thing is to get it all in writing------very detailed, nothing should be left 'assumed' or a verbal agreement and make sure that it can be changed when circumstnaces change, even if only by a judge's ruling. ANd you should ahve it JOINT custody from the beginning even if it says primary residence w/ mother. It is harder to get that later on.

Let me know if you ahve any specefic questions.

I didn't read all the responses but did want to say one thing. Don't be so sure about what will happen once the baby is born. Things tend to change...emotions go crazy. My xMM and his wife decided on contact as well...that is until I went into labour. When he came to see the baby born, his wife lost it and contact ended fromt hat day on. You have no idea how you are going to react. It was his wife that insisted I not have an abortion or cut off contact because he desperately wanted to be a part of our child's life. It lasted one whole day.

My advice to you is not to decided what you want until after the baby is born. At least then there is no going back and forth and no more broken promises...on any side.

Thanks to everyone!! The question and answers you've given me ar great. Lynn welcome back, girl where have you been! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> We H and I have talked about it but we are just starting to write stuff down on how or what we are expecting
from the OW. We havent even talked to her yet. First really don't think the child being born will change anything. But don't really know until it gets here. But if I can't do it then I will just leave. I will not ask H not to do contact because I can't handle it and be an adult about it. Maybe that is wrong and I am still dealing w/ the feelings from the whole contact thing. My H mom walked off when he was very young in not such a great place, so I do not see him not doing contact. And the OW knows how he is w/ kids and knows he would want to be a part of it. I'm trying to deal w/it and if I cant and if we can't get everything on paper first, and if she doesn't want to be an adult and I cant deal w/ all of it, I will chose not to be here. I have thought and prayed about things and do not know what else to do. I have to try, that way if it doesn't work I can go to the other house in another state and make a life for me and my girls. And not deal w/it. Me and H are getting along good right now and OW really hasn't been an issue. I however want this done before the OC gets here so I need to know how and what to ask, to get everything done. I don't know why I have this overwhelming feeling to get it done but I do. I guess if I see its not working now then I can just tell my attorney to go w/the papers that she has and be done w/it.
I really love my H wand want to see us make it, but I don't want to hang around and then the OC show up and he changes? I would rather deal w/these issues now and see how he handles them, before I introduce this child into my family? Does anyone know what I'm taliking about or how I am feeling? Tonight I just want to scream. I keep thinking how easy it would be just to pick my girls up from school and just go. Keep telling them I want to move to Jamaca and the girls said OK. LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> But is that what God wants me to do. I would like God to send me a email and let me know, but I guess that would be too easy. Well I've vented enough and look forward to more info and thanks to everyone.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny, but it is raining alittle today!

i know that i see things from the other side of many here but i feel that contact can work. especially with the attitude you are taking. there will most definately be hurdles but they can be overcome.

stuck at home tonight with all the kids plus 2 granddaughters this weekend so i will try and write more tomorrow morning when all are sleeping.

I am alittle better this morning. We had a great evening and friends where over, late night. I think it has really helped us being around sooo many married couples and friends. H friends are not afraid to tell him either about him being lucky. I'm trying not to be angry anymore and trying not to think about the worst case stuff. I want to remain possitive. I can do this. I really don't see me looking at the OC when it is born and feeling angry towards the child or H. If I believe we can get through this than we should let nothing get in our way, right. H told me he thought we where stong enough to get though anything, so he believes also, right? I don't want the devil to get the satisfaction of knowing he's doing a good job. I want him to have a hard time getting to me. I'm not perfect and I'm not w/o feelings but I know in my heart I am to be where I am, because I feel it everyday. Oh I had a wreck last night. No one was hurt me and D and Best friend where in the car and a 17 yr old backed out of her drive way and I couldn't stop. Just no life I guess! LOL But she got a ticket and I did feel sorry for her. I know she just did not see me. But I was driving my friends car. I feel bad about that. Insurance is good. I hope everyone has a great weekend and I will be back later.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny

Oh, P/S I look forward in hearing from you Pops.
thanks for making time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Sunny

I have been extremely busy. Spring has sprung and man the things that need to be done!! Kids, sports, spring cleaning in and out. Wheew. Busy days.

Sunny, I wish you all the best. I think you sound like you have a pure heart and a kind soul. Happiness to all of you!

I have to go and read and get caught up on everyone.

sunny,,,,,,,,,,,, i have to say that the attitude you express seems ideal for making c work. not trying to be negative but please make sure that you are looking deep inside your heart and make sure that they are your true feelings. if you have any apprehension you may end up stuck in your own private cross fire.

that being siad i will try and answer some of your questions by amswering some of the question that lynn posed.

SPECIAL NOTE TO LYNN. I AM IN NO WAY TRYING TO FLAME YOUR REPLY HERE. JUST TRYING TO USE YOUR QUESTIONS TO EXPLAIN HOW I SEE THINGS.

we are also assumimg that all involved are going to conduct themselves "as adults" who are interested in the welfare of ALL the children involved.

first and formost you need to go to COURT and have everything in writing. the reason i say in court is because if your state offers mediation and you come to an agreement there it has no wieght until a JUDGE so orders the agreement in court. mediation may however help lower the attorneys fees and keep them out of the haggling part.

especially visitation times (the biggest problem in my eyes). now that you have them in writing you have to remember that nothing is set in stone anymore except your name on your tombstone. so there will be times that, with the inconsistancies of life, will require BOTH parties to be flexable.

an example is that when om picked up grace this weekend she was not quite ready when he got here. it took about 10 minutes toget her ready. fh said that it was too bad he just had to wait. then when he returned her 20 minutes late she was up in arms.

now who was wrong? both. you see fh and i did not ignore getting grace ready we just got up late considering that we had our 2 granddaughters for the weekend and forgot how much time 3 kids under the age of 3 take to get started in the morning.
and IF he kept her longer because we were late that was the wrong reason. and that is just that an IF as i don't know for certain. the point here being don't count minutes. you are talking about a childs lifetime and as long as they are being loved while with the other party it doesn't matter. who cares if the baby didn't eat her ice cream fast enoough or messed her diaper at the last minute to get her home by 5.

<<<<<<<<Also, when you say what is best for BC and oc, make dang sure that the BC are NOT being asked to shoulder this burden created by two selfish adults>>>>>>>>>>>>
i have said before that i believe that your kids will follow your lead. if you can honestly accept this child into your home and your heart then they will be more then willing to also. but if you are forcing yourself because it is NOT truly in your heart then they will see that and it will be an unpleasent situation all around.

sorry have to run but will post more later.

<<<<<<<<<<<If ow starts getting weird on you, then what? Do you have a stragegy in place? If she says yes to a week at the lake, then says no at the last minute, then what? Do you have this legally taken care of or does she get to jerk your chain>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
this will only happen when someone acts in a selffish and child like manor. and all the more reason to get things in writing. if you want to spend a week at the lake do not plan it at the last minute. plan ahead, let ow know with plenty of advanced notice in writing and these things complications should be avoided.

<<<<<<<<Who will contact ow? >>>>>>>
my suggestion is that you do it as much as possible ot if h does it you are a part of . i.e. you both go together. that way your h will not have two families instead it will be YOUR family handling adversity together.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<What if YOUR parents are taking them for a week on a vacation, and you and your H have a chance to be alone, and that is the oc weekend? How are you going to feel having oc around on what should/could be a hubsand/wife time?>>>>>>>
oc should be included as part of your family. if their weekend visit falls on a weekend where grandma and grandpa have the kids then the oc should be included. make arramgements for pickup and drop off WELL AHEAD of time. if that is not practical maybe make arrangements to switch weekends. that is the flexible part i mentioned earlier.

contact is not simple by any means but it can work if ALL are willing to put in the effort.

you will need to remember that no woman can raise her child as well as she can. ow is likely to be testy when oc goes to your house. it's that natural protective instinct mothers have. so don't take things said about eating, bathing, sleeping habits, bottles and binkies personal. and realize that you won't be able to change some of those things anyway. why try and ween the baby off the bottle because your kids were weened at say 18 months. if the oc is going to get that bottle the instant she is home with ow then you will have dealt with a fusy child all weekend for nothing. you won't change that habit until ow is ready to ween her child.

she will have to understand that you are a good parent. and as there are a million different views on raising kids the oc will be in good hands while at your house.

it sounds like you are going to have a long distance c situation so you may want to really look hard at what is best for yourselves and the children involved. ny opinion on that is that it will be the fathers responsibilty to handle transportation to and from in those cases. that is only because that is what i did with my oldest son. the drive was average 1 to 1/2 hrs each way and i made it on average 3 times a week.

lynn,,,,,,,,, you said "I only worry about the BC in this situation since what is "best for the oc" is all anyone talks about"

i disagree with this statement. i only see this "on this board" when there are no bc in the marriage yet. i see families struggling where there are bc talking of ALL the kids and i also see ow's who have intruded into existing families speak about mm w AND c's. so i don't think that is a fair assumption for this board. and i don't really care about what the other boards say as i don't choose to read there. just my observation.

<small>[ May 17, 2004, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>

Pops, no offense taken. Dialog afterall is what these women need. Get as many cards on the table as possible. Let them pick and chose what might and might not work for them.

However, I do need some claifification on one statement. I asked what if HER parents were taking HER children for a weeks vacation. Did you state that the grandparents should take the oc too?

I read so much about acting like an adult on here but it is clearly draped to the benefit of the oc. What about the ow being adult and moving on with her life with the child and leaving the intact family alone? THAT would be act of an adult.

Why is it that the hidden meaning behind "acting like an adult" means the BW has to have the oc in her home, life, etc.

The children of the marriage will pick up the cue as to how to behave from the Betrayed? So, are we to assume that all children who have a parent who lie and cheat now have a "get-a-way free" card to lie and cheat? Afterall, the cheating spouse has set that cue also. That it is ok to lie and cheat and have no morals. And of course your family and your children will cover your butt and make it all better? Could that "take the cue from the parents" not go the other way too? "Dad is a lying cheat, so I can too?" "Mom is lying whore, so I can be too?" Or is that written off as a bad mistake, that everything is ok now? And that the only non adult is the BS who isn't nice to oc?


That is why I dislike the "act like an adult" statement. It has a passive aggressive sense to it. My children, as they grow have been dealt harshly if caught in a lie. In this house it is not tolerated. Truth, no matter how bad, is dealt with easier. Lying is not.

HOWEVER, teens being what they are, one daughter one time, was being repremanded by her father and she turned on him and said something like "who are you to talk about lying" and then something like "at least I don't have to send money to a [censored]". My husband was shocked silent. What could he say? I was livid with her. But, remembering the conversation, she did feel that. She did wonder how on earth he could talk about lying and all, when he did what he did. She certainly had a valid point. Knowing that teens see things in black and white, and it is lifes lessons that color the shades of grey, her views were not wrong, they were just immature.

Conversations with children about oc are never simple. "geesh, daddy had an oc, and we all going to be honky dory with oc, everything is just fine" Nope. It is not normal and cant' be treated as if it is, since that itself is a lie. The honest truth is ugly and should not be sugar coated.

So when telling people that the kids will take their cue from how the betrayed acts, you were right in saying that she needs to be 100% accepting or they will feel it. Just as her husband has to be aware that his children will see him in a different way too. Her children might say one thing, but seeing daddy with the oc and seeing their mother having to deal with the mistake he made, could very easily change their minds. They could be very uncomfortable with it, they should be allowed to express themselves honsetly. If the BS is all happy with it, are her kids going to be afraid to say their honest feelings? I worry about BC and all they are expected to deal with. Those are the only children that I lobby for on this board.

Acting like an adult sounds nice on paper. In theory, it doesn't fit. Emotions are what they are. Feelings are what they are. This is not a normal situation and there is no simple this is right, that is wrong answer. But it is NOT ADULT to expect other people to clean up your messes.

On a side note, I hope you are feeling well and up and about after your heart ordeal. Amazing what they can do these days isn't it?

Do you know what Lynn?

You have found the brain I have lost these past 3 years! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Our son has had similar angry discussions with my H and made similar remarks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

My H would retort "I'm still your Dad and I deserve respect!"

Our son would of course reply "Oh! Yeah Dad...whatever you say"

He is now 24! Was about to turn 21 when it all came down.

Sorry pops but when you have analagies that we must explain to the ninth degree well...I feel you are on the other side way too far....

Tonight, Lynns post hit our family situation square on the head from lying to accepting oc...we do not. H gets blasted occasionally from our son...especially the name for oc and having to pay....son uses racial epithet as oc is not the same um...er.."color" as all of us. We are all caucasian but son uses slang for dark Italians. It is his way of lashing out at the man who is now his fallen hero. What a burden to have to take on. Both H and son.

Pops it is commendable you accept oc and forgive fullhouse. Gotta love you for that. Bs feel much differently when we do not have oc around full time to have to "get used to" as you have.

If I got into that predicament I'd wish for an H as accepting as you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . FH is very lucky.

Again I will add S doesn't hate oc, just acts as if he is a non-entity. He has the right. His Dad said things while he was growing up that all came crumbling down the minute he knew his Dad was not only unfaithful , but ow was having his child!

Ok I will not go on and on.

Lynn thanks again for picking my brain for the right words to say.

pops, do not take offense. Love to read about you and fullhouse. Glad your ticker is on another mile.
Would love to have a conversation with all of us together to hear one anothers views. In person, ya know?
love
Debi

Sunny,

I have a question for you. It's one that my H and I are having a difficult time dealing with. I am interested in how you would handle this situation. You are agreeing to C w/ OC. However, do you agree with you H being in the delivery room or having one on one visitaion with OW and OC? Have you guys discussed this? If so, how did you come to an agreement?

At this point, I am ok w/ C too. I know it will be difficult but I think if things w/ OW are dealt with in a manner that is fair to me, we can work it out. However, we can not come to an agreement on the delivery room situation and have talked a little about visitation.

Thanks

<small>[ May 18, 2004, 07:40 AM: Message edited by: LuvMyFamily ]</small>

I agree w/ everone an contact is really hard to do, but it is not impossibe. We do have issues we are working on. No H is not going in delv room. He said that, he came up w/ that. We may go to the hospital, yes I said WE, if we are in town. Our visitations will not be that much. We will be asking to do them during the week, since the guidelines for a new born are just a few hours at a time. We are not going to screw up our weekends at the cabin for 6 hours visitation. When the child gets older we will do as the guidelines state. E/O weekend thing and alternate holiday's.
And H has told OW if I don't have contact and she except me as the "Step Mom" then he will not start a relationship w/ the child. So no there will be no visits w/o me. We don't mind having contact, H said he didn't want or aggree to have this child so, thoses actions listed above would mean he supports her preg. But like I said we haven't gotten everything worked up for the OW to see and she may freak, who knows. H also told OW and Me that we needed to develope some kind on vocal relationship, get used to talking to each other, in other words. He wants contact to go thru me. I don't have a problem and I've talked to her on one situation already and it went fine. No one made anyone mad. Just discuss the facts, say thank you and hang up. See ya in a while
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny

lynn and gem,,,,,,, i meant to reply to you both but have not had time. i will try and squeeze in as much as possible.

<<<<<Did you state that the grandparents should take the oc too? >>>>>

yes and let me explain. if sunny is going to accept this child into her life then i would expect her family would support her and do the same.

when the crap with fh hit the fan my family 2 brothers and their w's, 6 step brs and siss and their h's and w's and my stepmom told me that they would support me in any decision i made. when i decided to work on my marriage they choose to support me. in MY case that also meant that they would accept grace as if she were mine.

i also believe i said that lots of time should be allowed when planning such events so that special arrangements could be made if need be. that does not mean that oc is getting special treatment.

another thing i said was that if transportation is a problem with such a visit then hopefully all parties could be flexible enough to maybe switch a weekend visit.

so NO life should not solely be arranged around oc but oc should not be excluded intentionally either.

<<<<<I read so much about acting like an adult on here but it is clearly draped to the benefit of the oc. What about the ow being adult and moving on with her life with the child and leaving the intact family alone? THAT would be act of an adult. >>>>>

"I" have never said that oc should be the center of the world. just treated as an equal when ever they are present.

"I" also said regarding this that i don't give a hoot what the rasons or who got who pregnant or who got pregnant on purpose. "MY" view on this is that BOTH parties are cronological adults and BOTH parties know exactly what unprotected sex can lead to (more then just pregnancy). therfore BOTH parties are responsible for the financial and emotional well being of the child.

"I" agree with everyone that the cs system is not fair but i did not make it and i can't change it. so until it is amended to cover all possible scenerios we are stuck with what is in place. right or wrong, good or bad.

emotional support does NOT always mean that a bio dad must have contact. it may very well be in the best interset of all (bs, bc, oc, ow) for a NO contact situation. if a fathers heart is not true to contact then he will do no good for that child and should avoid contact.

please don't try and use that arguement with me because i don't give a hoot one way or another.
what i was simply doing is trying to give sunny (who came here to ask how she can make contact work) some advice. good or bad

i also tried to give kt some support when she came here venting of how things for her were not going so well.

and the flip side of ow disappearing into thin air is not self serving for the bs. that way her h loses nothing financialy and she gains the out of sight out of mind "peace" card. i'm sorry but i don't see a difference of an op living 10 miles away or 10,000. the fact of the A is real and will always stay with us.

<<<<<Why is it that the hidden meaning behind "acting like an adult" means the BW has to have the oc in her home, life, etc. >>>>>

this term does not mean that op has to be accepted into your home or life. om has never and will never set foot in my house. yes he picks grace up at my front door. that is because that way i can pretty much keep control of the situation. also my personal feelings are that if he wants to have a relationship with her then he has to go out of his way to do so. he has to do the driving back and forth.

<<<<<The children of the marriage will pick up the cue as to how to behave from the Betrayed? So, are we to assume that all children who have a parent who lie and cheat now have a "get-a-way free" card to lie and cheat? Afterall, the cheating spouse has set that cue also. That it is ok to lie and cheat and have no morals. And of course your family and your children will cover your butt and make it all better? Could that "take the cue from the parents" not go the other way too? "Dad is a lying cheat, so I can too?" "Mom is lying whore, so I can be too?" Or is that written off as a bad mistake, that everything is ok now? And that the only non adult is the BS who isn't nice to oc? >>>>>

this whole paragraph would be true if the ws had no consequences to their actions or had no remorse for their actions. i think that most here have spouses who are paying very dearly for their actions one way or another rherefore negating the "do what you want it doesn't matter anyway" idea.

<<<<<<<Conversations with children about oc are never simple. "geesh, daddy had an oc, and we all going to be honky dory with oc, everything is just fine" Nope. It is not normal and cant' be treated as if it is, since that itself is a lie. The honest truth is ugly and should not be sugar coated. >>>>>>>>

no i didn't say that everything would be honky dory. but you need to remember that we are posting to a person that is willing to try contact. so i would think that she feels that FORGIVENESS is in her heart. how would contact work if sunny were to sitting down to dinner with the family and called the kids like this. hey kids come on down dinner is on the table and bring that [censored] child concieved by that cheating, lieing snake of a father". i don't know about you but that doesn't sould like contact will work to me.

just like telling grace about her history should be age appropriate the same is true about telling the bc about how oc came to be.

when my w asks me what i think of her horrific new hair color i could answer either of two ways. 1 - it's ok but i don't tink it is my favorite on you. or 2 - it looks like crap. one is sugar coated and one is not.

the honest truth doesn't always have to be told so that someone else gets hurt just because we were. sometimes a little decorum is in order.

well off to soccer and baseball practice. will pick up where i left off later.