Albany, I skimmed through the 10 stupid things couples do but found it frustratng because it was for COUPLES but only I was reading it. I loved the "Proper Care...aFoH" because it was concrete things I could do to change and improve my marriage.

BBG--I think it is a very big step to focus on your relationship w/ H and let the other go for now. It is crucial to realize what we can really change and what we are willing to tolerate if it cannot be changed. It's about choices and sometimes things are very important to us and we will not/should not budge. Other times things are very important to us and we will not budge but then it loses priority to us and we are willing to compromise because we have realized something else is more important. Where is the harm in that? It's all about choices.

For example, when H finally told me the "truth" about A, a week before CS hearing, after all these years of thinking I already knew the truth, and now 8 1/2 months pg w/ baby #3, I was PISSED to say the least and felt like H purposely trapped me by not telling me until it would be harder for me to leave. I made ANOTHER choice to stay. It was true, it was harder for me to leave but not impossible. I had more to think about w/ 3 kids now, one just under 2 yrs and one about to be born. So I made a choice based on my priorities and that was for my kids and what I wanted for them. I knew that it would be harder for me, emotionally, mentally, even physically.

I was determined to make this marriage work though, even if only for my kids. But by staying focused on my priorities, I am committed to making this an enjoyable, loving marriage between my H & I FOR my kids.

So to make a long repsonse even longer, I see nothing wrong w/ you making that choice (even not having kids together, your marraige is important to you and is your priority).

Hello all, I hope you don't mind if I join in. I was not on the original long post.

KrisM, I just wanted to comment that your posted sounded like it came from my mouth. We are dealing w/ a similar issue in that my H wants to be in the delivery room. I feel the same way about that as you do the US. What will you do if he goes to the US, the next one and then the delivery room? How do you feel about it if it's not just a one time thing.

ktbunch, glad that things went so well for you. I hope that someday we are as unified as you are.

KT

Thank you so much for your advice, I have come to the conclusion that fighting w/ him regarding visitation issues is something he is not going to budge on right now.

Yes I could have walked away clean, but my M is a priority to me, for all the right reasons #1 I still believe God joined us together & does not want our M to end in DV. I am thinking maybe if I put all my emphasis on our M & getting that back on track, issues w/ the baby coming to the house will be worked out eventually. When that subject comes up all I end up doing is LBing anyway so it is best to leave it alone right now.

Thanks again & always know you are a great source of inspiration to all of us wanting our M's to be in recovery & have contact w/ OC. I know it is not easy, but it can be done, you show us that & I am grateful for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey girls,

Today has been a good day. H took us(the kids and I) to dinner last night it was great. Did not LB at all - thanks to all of you. I looked great if I must say so muself. I bought a new dress and have lost a couple of pounds so it was refreshing to say the least. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

H is about to pick me up from work with the kids to go visit their new daycare. They start on Monday so today we are taking them to get a look at it and see how they respond to it.

H felt a little better that I did not LB. H looked like a doting father with us last night, he was great with the kids and me. It was almost like old times I enjoyed being with him.

I must trust that with us is where he wants to be and go with the flow. I no longer want to hurt my kids, him,or myself with my anger about the situation.

Thanks all I'll update later.

Good to hear from you KT, Kris, Sunny, Albany, BBYG, and anyone else I may have missed.

Love you all,
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
JT

LMF-Of course we don't mind if you join in.

JT2-glad to hear you had a good evening <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

KrisM--Hang in there-I know you can do it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I know it is hard at times--okay realisticly all the time, but I know that you can do it.

Sunnydale-it looks good in your neck of the woods.

AD-I haven't heard from you and hope that you are feeling better.

JT,

That is great, I am so glad to hear some good news! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sunny,

Sounds like you two are right on track.

Keep it coming w/ the good news ladies. Looking forward to hearing more!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> LMF-Of course we don't mind if you join in.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We certainly don't mind. We are all here for each other. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I give up!

H called said they arrived safely. He called later about getting e-mail password because they were e-mailing him about two job openings in Boise. I called him back to ask him what type of jobs they wer and he said you already looked and I said I can view them--I think he downloaded them and doesn't realize it.

Anyway he became a complete a*?hole and told me I was nosey and he was done and became a different person then this morning. I said you told your parents and he said yes I told them and you need to move on and I said are you moving to Boise and he said probably and I could here his Mom in the background.

Her and I talked on her way to the airport to pick them up and she said she was sure he wouldn't say anything and didn't think he was done and she promised to get a hold of me and let me know.

I truly felt a warmth between us this morning and I'm shattered and I feel really degraded after this morning SF and I'm just really, really upset and really hurt.

I don't think that their is anything else that I can do--I feel like I have tried it all and I'm so hurt after this morning--He was so different this afternoon then this morning before and after SF--I guess I just don't what real or unreal anymore and I guess I don't know him at all. I can't wait to hear from his Mom and I don't I will get a chance to--I'm so upset and saddened and my heart aches and I wish I didn't love him.

So sorry Albany. Sounds like both our H's are being real jerks tonight. Concentrate on yourself and doing what is best for you. I am so drained over all this crap, and yet the pile keeps getting deeper.

My H went to ultrasound today. I just can't believe he went through with it. I had printed off my last post from last night, so he knew exactly how I felt about it. Yet he went. I guess I know where I stand w/ H. Better yet, I guess I know where OW still stands with H. I can't believe he would yet again put her needs and his needs above mine. OW is probably all smiles. She knows what this means - that she can still come between H and me. That she still has a chance to steal away my family. I have been bouncing back and forth tonight between hurt and anger.

I was really mad because our DS was late for his baseball practice because dad wasn't home to take him. I took him late when I got home from work and picking up DD from sitters. Already this OC is coming before our kids. How can he put OC before BC????? I can almost understand how he can hurt me so much(not really), but I will never understand the hurt he is and will cause our kids. That infuriates me.

Got home from the park and H had called. He had left me a note on something that needed done at house. Wanted to remind me to do it and that he would be at house in morning to get DS to school. I almost wish he would stay away. I don't want to face him. I can't wait till school is over - kids can go to sitters when I go to work and I won't have to see H. I don't know where I stand in all this anymore. Next I am sure he will want to be at delivery too. Don't think I can handle that. I trust God knows what he is doing, because H sure is screwing up.

DD is throwing one heck of a tantrum tonight. Does anyone know if this comes with age 5 or is it a sign she is having trouble with all this? She is normally my mellow, shy child. Lately she has been a holy terror. Didn't know if it was the age or her way of expressing her feelings concerning dad? At one point during tantrum she said she was moving and living alone. I wonder where she got the idea that this is the thing to do when there is a problem????? I try to talk to her, she says she is tired. Yet she asks me all the time if I feel better. This has all got to stop. I can't let this effect the kids like this. That is what pisses me off more than anything. My hurt I can handle. Hurting the kids, mama gets mad. I am at a loss again for what is best for them. A stable home life, or a life with mom and dad and no guarantee that dad won't bolt at the first sign of trouble. What is that telling them? Obviously my 5yo already sees that as a way to deal with problems.

Sorry, I am rambling. So many things going through my mind right now.

Any advice on how to handle H when I see him??

Thanks for listening again.
Kris

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My dear friends, take heart from this precious verse in 2 Timothy
2:13: "Even when we are too weak to have any faith left, He remains
faithful to us and will help us, for He cannot disown us who are part
of Himself, and He will always carry out His promises to us"!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just read this in a devotion and it made me feel a little better. I thought I would share. Isn't it funny how these messages appear when we need them most.

Remember to walk by faith, and not by what you see. God has the situation under control. Focus on faith and not what our H's actions show us. Stop doubting and believe in God.

God Bless,
Kris

KrisM~

Make sure you have cooled off so you can talk about this rationally--although I'm not sure if that is possible. I would ask why he and try get our his reasons feelings for going--I think starting with a pointed finger will cause a fight that nothing good will come of.

Did your H want her to have this baby or keep it--I can't remember??

SOmetimes I wish I was in your shoes--mine isn't even a matter of OW and OC right now. Mine is just that he is done but his actions don't show that.

Part of me can understand why they would want to go but part of me doesn't and out of respect I wonder how they can go.

You see my H did not want OW to have baby and intitially she told him she wouldn't and then when came down to it that didn't happen and my H tried to convince her that this was not the way to bring a child into the world into this mess it didn't ask for and that he thought the very best thing would be adoption but she wouldn't do that--I think that my H almost despises this child that is almost here.

Shortly after I found out she was pregnant I broke down one evening in front of him--that was when he wanted nothing more than to make it work and he loved us and would do anything to keep the family together and we would face this and get through it--where that went is beyond me--but back to the point I said our son isn't special anymore and I said I feel like that has been stripped away and he said why and i said because you have a child with another women and he said that our son was very special in his eyes because he was wanted and made out of love.

Oh Yah--the update--talked to his Mom just a few ago and she said that he hasn't said anything--that $^(&$#&U)%* $()%*#&*($#?!?! yah you get my points lots of words flying--but you know that isn't cool to do that to me--I would never do that--not right and I want you to know I'm really bent out of shape and degraded by SF--what a slap in the face to think that there was something there this morning--some warmth--I guess I not a good judge of his feelings and state of mind anymore.

Hang tough--I know I say I give up but I haven't told my parents anything yet so I know that I'm not done.

I don't think that you were wrong about your H's feelings this morning - that is really hard to fake. I think he just sounds really confused. Maybe you shouldn't push so hard. Don't focus on all this crap all the time. Try to recreate what you had prior to. I think that is what BG is doing right now. Trying to fix marriage and then deal with all the issues together. I hope it works out for all of you.

How does my H feel about OC? That is the million dollar question. When I first found out about A, I asked H if he told OW that he did not want any more kids. He has been insistant on that since our last one was born. OW is younger and made it clear that she wanted kids. H's reply was that he would consider having one with her. That never set well with me. I obviously wanted more, but was denied the opportunity. Then all of a sudden, he was willing to with OW. Little did we know that is had already happened. I am not so sure H was ready for it. I don't know what he feels about this child. I think he is still shocked that it is happening. His comments about ultrasound was that he has felt left out of pregnacy and wanted to be there. Maybe it is one way to accept reality. I don't know. Doesn't excuse the fact he knew full well what I thought of him going, and yet he went.

I just found a note from him on bed. I have been telling H that we can handle this OC issue together. After he read the post I left for him, his response was basically that he knew I couldn't handle it. No I can't handle it alone. I could handle it if we made these decisions together. H just does not get it. I suppose he will take this as some sign that things can't work out for us. I probably screwed up by leaving him that post. I just thought it would help him understand why I didn't want him to go to US. Note also said the he had to go because he couldn't get it out of his head. Says he didn't plan this, just screwed up (I think he is talking about OC there, not US).


Anyway, I am fairly calm at the moment. I just really don't know what to say to H anymore. I don't think my feelings matter to him. He does what he wants and that is that.

Talk to you more later.
Kris

So I'm I not suppose to dwell on what he said this afternoon??? How do you ignore those things and not dwell???

Also annoyed becasue I was putting garbage outside and found empty pack of cigs--which he said he had quit when he got the lung infection--asked him two days okay and he said he wasn't smoking. Maybe it was an old pack--I shouldn't jump to conclusion but I pissed. He started when we were split up and quit when we got back together and then started again when he told me about OC. You think that if you are prone to lung infections you would quit.

I know this a small thing nothing to do with big picture but I'm totally pissed by it and if he comes back he will quit or he won't come back--he always does this when he is not with me--it goes with the whole thing about not giving a crap about life I guess I don't know.

I was mellow almost until I found that in the garbage--it has truly sent me over the edge--if I talked to him I would so much yell at him.

I'm so mad--angry that he bnroke is promise of staying and I have been cheated out of another child and a happy marriage he has taken and ataken and given nothing-- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Are you sensing my anger??? I have had it--does he not give a s@?t??? At least keep your health in mind for your son's sake if nothing else--you would think someone who at the age of 24 had a brain tumor and had it removed succesfully and it was benign would value life a little more.

Okay gotta go and collect myself because the more I write the more pissed I become and the hatred is rising above boiling.

KT~~Now what?? You said I did great this morning--do I need to sit back be busy and as AD says enable him to chase me--those things he said tonight after this morning and SF are really getting to me. It makes PA so hard and then that makes it harder to not chase him and to get him to chase me.

You think he will tell them or move???? HELP--I'm desperate and week and just so upset--and why put myself through this if it upsets me--because I seen a ray of hope or is it self torture--actually I think that it is only the success stories I have read that give me faith to hang in here.

Albany - I just typed out this nice long reply to you and lost it. Let me try to remember what I said.

Basically, I think you need to get your anger under control. I am worried because your anger does nothing but cause yourself more stress and heartache. You do not need more of that.

As for H comments, it is hard not to dwell on them. I read somewhere that you can only believe like 30% of what they say at this point. Our H are hurt and confused just like us - even though they brought it on themselves. I think this accounts for alot of the stupid things they say. Don't take them all to heart - focus on the good and work from there. I know my H is just having a hard time accepting what he has done. I think that is part of the reason he went to US today - a reality check. The problem is OW is there also. You can't help but bond over the first sight of your child. That's what makes me so mad, and I don't think H quite understands.

Focus on yourself. Get your anger under control. Be the best you possible and your H won't be able to resist. H's don't want this constantly thrown in their faces - even if they deserve it. When you feel yourself getting angry to the point you can't control it - say a little prayer. We all know that God is the one we can trust right know. I trust God more than I trust myself because if I do things my way, I screw it up.

Hang in there - you can do this.

I don't know what to say to either one of you.

My H has responded like both of your H @ different times so I don't know whether it is a man thing or a WH thing.

Many a time my H has seemed mean or distant after SF, leaving me feeling used. I would call him on it and eventually, once we learned to actually communicate, it wasn't about me, it was usually something up w/ him (work or some other manly stress) and he would apologize.

And Krism, My H used to say the EXACT same thing, that he just KNEW I couldn't handle it and i'd be like you, you're right! Not by myself.

The difference is my H was living @ home all the time.

I was/am very confrontational. Not always a good thing. I think you both have every right to confront your H on their behavior but I think you have to be self controlled enough not to lose it(ie: non-confrontational). Stay focused only on how YOU feel and not accusatory. In other words don't accuse your H of doing something or try to assume his motives. You can express your disappointment, your feelings but don't assume H feelings.

Stay calm and rational. Don't assume anything about your H. We really don't know WHAT they are thinking right now. Don't try to read their minds or look for subtle innuendos, ulterior motives or anything.

Kris you can tell your H you were sad/bothered that he went to US but glad that he told you and did not keep it a secret, even if you did not agree w/ it. Then LISTEN to him. He may open up & admit to you about how lost & confused he really is. You don't know.

Albany, your stress level is like mine, calm down, take a deep breathe. Tell H how much you enjoyed your morning and how sad you would be if it truly was over between you two and how much you would miss those times w/ him. Whatever, be calm, LISTEN to him and let him talk. Don't try to pry into his "feelings", he is confused, he probably doesn't even know what his "feelings" are either.

Both of you, take a deep breathe and get some rest. Pray to God and give it to Him, all of this is out of your hands. Albany, I think you have said how control freaky you can be, so, let me remind you that you are slipping into old habits again, step back and regain the progress you are making by controlling yourself again and letting the rest (& stress) gooooooooooooooo.

God Bless.

KT~you are right but I don't think that he will call me at all while he is gone--but I need to make him chase--I fall off the wagon to easily with a few kind words from him. I tell him everyday that I love him and I care ant want it to work--it doesn't seem to matter--in fact less I talk about sometimes the better.

I talked to him before I talked to his mom by a 10-15 minutes and he was better than before and I said I cared and then as I already said when I talked to his mom she said he hadn't said a thing though 2 hours before he said he had--why does he say that to me and why not tell them if you are done.

I'm so scared to lose him--in most ways I'm not dependent on anyone but emotionally I'm very dependent on him I guess and I need him so much that way.

I guess it is frustrating because I usually don't make threats and that what he does and never follows through--I love him KT and I want this to work and a year is a long time (since we first started with this). Can you wave your wand and make it better--I want it fixed and I have no patience right now and I think that is because my love tank is nearly empyt and every time he deposits into it he takes it back out--was SF a good thing to leave him with--probably yes but it seems to not mean much I guess--I really thought I saw love and a desire for me in his eyes when he said can you call in and go in half hour late--he just seemed like he wanted to spend time together.

Keep the thoughts coming KT--IS their a married end in sight after all of this??

AD~hope you feel better haven't heard from you

Everyone I say a prayer for you tonight and I hop that you will all say an extra for me tonight and mainly for my H to pull his head out of his ---. Do they not know how lucky they are to have someone love them so deeply to go through this situation???

Here's my encouragement:

After A ended, H & I lost everything. We were fiancially bankrupt, had to live w/ friends, H lost his job, I had to go back to work to even survive, working part-time for the holidays. We had nothing AND H was treating me like total crap! That was the worst Christmas of my life! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I had no idea @ this time that there had been an A & pg. I had no idea what the problem was and I was soooo frustrated and perplexed as to WHY this was all happening. And to think H CHOSE to end A & stay in our marriage but was neglecting and totally mistreating me???? Didn't look like someone who wanted to be there. I still don't know what kept him from going back to OW during that time because he sure didn't act like he wanted or loved me.

Then he was forced to tell me and I lost it big time. I was outta there! Glad to have a justifiable reason to call it quits and end the misery.

Now, things are obviously and completely different. H can't explain his behavior back then but he is consistent that he KNEW he wanted to be married to ME & ONLY me. Says that is all he ever wanted. So why so much of the opposite unloving behavior?

I can try to analyze it. Maybe he was so overcome w/ the guilt and secrecy he had to be distant from me to avoid facing the truth, maybe he was hoping I would leave so he could be "punished" for his unforgiveable sin. Our outside turmoil was an accurate reflection of H inner turmoil. Who knows?

But knowing how it was way back then to how it is now, whew! SOOOOOOO glad I hung in there.

I think, that you think I am madly, truly, deeply in love w/ my H right? & I am. But 7 years ago? how could I know that I would be here now? I never would have believed it myself. And if you knew & saw us then you would not believe it either.

It's all a process & H & I have had many other honesty & trust issues to deal w/ too. One step @ a time but each step builds another part of the foundation that takes you to the next step.

You can't fix this, you can't change this. I have been there, begging God to change it, fix it, turn back time. I KNOW God can do all those things but that was not His plan for me.

sorry to end so abruptly, gotta take care of sick baby. Hang in there and don't lose hope, is my long winded point.

KT~I will try not to lose hope but it seems so done in some respects with him saying he is done.

I wish I could talk to his Mom more today and find a bit more--she really couldn't say much last night because their were some ears around.
For some reason she gives me great comfort and her and my one friend have been right every time about him not saying anything to anyone else even though he says he has.

I guess though I'm starting to hate him right now and my love is mixed and yet at the same time I so much want him to reach out and grab me and tell me he loves me and is coming home--that is me dream and it makes me teary just writing it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do they not know how lucky they are to have someone love them so deeply to go through this situation??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Albany they don't see it too much fog, guilt, shame, who knows - it is so frustrating.

Albany & Kris I am so sorry that things look so bleak right now, KT gave you some hope w/ her story, we have to remember that this in not an overnite process, just like our H's didn't wake up one day & decide "I think I will start an A w/ another woman & tear my M & family apart by getting her pg. too", lots of months or years led up to them making that decision. (Not that I am excusing their behavior in any way).So there is no quick fix for us to go back to our life "pre A".

KT shows us that there is hope, we all know though that some of us may not have happy endings here & I think we are all strong enough to deal with that if it happens, but until we know beyond the shadow of a doubt that it is over, done, finished I say STAND, do all that you can do, but know there is a point where you have to let God have it & say "let your will be done Lord" & let it go. Easier said then done I know.

Hang in there ladies.