</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by happymom:
<strong> Mary, you are merely proving my point. 50/50 and mom still retains primary custody and still recieves c.s. If it's 50/50, then NO c.s. should be paid by either parent.

Although, I can see being upset about lying so drastically about his income, but please....worried about EVERY hidden asset? You're not treating him like a walking wallet? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">uh, that was uncalled for...........let's put it in money terms happy........let's say a difference of 15000.00 a month. Not 1500.00. That is not screwing me, that is screwing one of my children. I think if you put yourself in someone else's shoes you would not have made that comment. As far as the 50 50 no cs how is that fair? IF a man makes a lot more than he still needs to help out.....Now if he has one child and she has another and they both are about the same in income and expenses then it should just be even steven. A shared cost of living means just that. A shared cost of living. In my state there is a cap. Where someone may get over 2000.00 a month for one child it's not so here. It's capped so the other party can NOT take advantage of the system. A walking wallet?????????? That is pretty darn funny......., even while with him........I was never a kept woman. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

One more edit........primary custody is not a given in this day and age unless agree with upon both parties. The courts like Joint custody now a days. So primary means just that. Kids cost money happymom and I'm assuming that if you have kids that you do........that you would expect your husband to pay you cs and probally alimony seeing your married if you were to divorce? Why is it so bad for an ow to ask? And again why the comment before you knew the details above?

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: needtomoveon ]</small>

stormyweather/blackrio:

note taken........something similar just happened in CA recently as well.

So a woman lies or somehow decieves a man into believing a child is his & they get together........well, the man does benefit too..FREE SEX, for the time being.

When the relationship is over....the TAB is due, in monthly installments for about 18 years minus how old the child currently is.

So basically we women have the right to prostitute ourselves out legally by calling it CS, because NOTHING in this world is EVER free!
***************************
***************************
OK so the pendelum is SWUNG to the other end & it does not look like it will be changing anytime soon, no matter HOW many father's rights groups there are.

So OUR responsiblity as PARENTS is to change what we can.........which is our SON'S attitudes towards sex & women.

Here's a starter lesson:
Do NOT have sex w/ ANY woman who is NOT your WIFE, EVER.
If you THINK you want sex w/ a woman who you are NOT married too....step closer to mama so I can SLAP you upside your head!
IF you do not want a child---make DAMN sure you do NOT have sex, becuase obviously accidents can & WILL happen.
IF you THINK you want sex but not children....step closer to mama so I can SLAP you upside your head!
If you do have children & decide you no longer want your marriage......step closer to mama so I can SLAP you upside your head! It is more cost effective to STAY married.
Also if you decide that you will not listen to your mama's good sense, make DANG sure (again) that you can support 2 separate households; yours & your kids because that is what you will be financially responsible for.

OR how 'bout this: every time junior even thinks of sex, we slap him upside his head...........then he will have pain & negative feelings associated w/ sex & will NEVER want to have sex EVER! LOL

That is the only sure-fire, fool-proof way for him to protect himself.

That's my vote! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Don't worry, our sons will thank us for this SEX EDUCATION we give them when they see ALL thier friends in the poor house not being allowed to see their kids. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


feeling awnry,
kt

KT, I've seen pictures of you and your family, but everytime you mentioned slap jr upside the head it reminds me of that show "my wife and kids" and they are always slapping Jr., upside the head. LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> KT that is exactly how I feel about it. You are too funny....still laughing.

Kt,

Being the mom of two sons, I find the "step closer to mama...." lines to be hilarious. And as one who's older son (who was 8 at the time) stole almost $200 last year from my purse to give to female classmates, I would have to add something like

"If you feel the need to just give good money away to the opposite sex, step closer to mama so I can slap you upside the head" or maybe a Bernie Mac "I'll beat ya to the white meat shows" type of hits.

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Stormyweather ]</small>

Mary, I wasn't trying to bait you.

IMO, what you are talking about is "quality" of life or a specific "standard" of living. One parent should not be expected to provide for their child to enjoy a higher standard of living...in another home. c.s. should be to offset the expenses of the child's necessities that the parent the child lives with has to pay. Necessities are food, clothes, and shelter. In joint custody, each parent has the child for roughly an equal amount of time and pays for that child's necessities while in their care. In that situation, if one parent can't pay their own bills it isn't the other parents problem.

I have been in those shoes. I was a single mom with 3 kids, divorced, when I put myself through college. My ex and I do have joint custody. He makes tons more money then I do. He doesn't owe me a dime. He pays the court minimum cs and that goes into the childrens savings accts which he adds to regularly.

SW/BR:
Well, @ least he's fitting in w/ the 'program'---giving his $$$$$$$$ away to females.....

I'm wondering what he got in return? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Maybe you should give him a lesson on INFLATION becuase if he's paying out $200 in 2nd/3rd grade.......imagine what a girl will cost him in the future? LOL


xoxox
kt

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by happymom:
<strong> Mary, I wasn't trying to bait you.

IMO, what you are talking about is "quality" of life or a specific "standard" of living. One parent should not be expected to provide for their child to enjoy a higher standard of living...in another home. c.s. should be to offset the expenses of the child's necessities that the parent the child lives with has to pay. Necessities are food, clothes, and shelter. In joint custody, each parent has the child for roughly an equal amount of time and pays for that child's necessities while in their care. In that situation, if one parent can't pay their own bills it isn't the other parents problem.

I have been in those shoes. I was a single mom with 3 kids, divorced, when I put myself through college. My ex and I do have joint custody. He makes tons more money then I do. He doesn't owe me a dime. He pays the court minimum cs and that goes into the childrens savings accts which he adds to regularly. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't expect his quality of life...I expect the state's guidlines for his accurate income. You and your ex probally came to an agreement and all. It's not the same thing. He did not purposly try to screw your kids/his kids right? I don't want his lifestyle as mine is fine. I just want what is do my daughter that is fair and share (which after many court dates and investagations and catching him in every lie) I got it. But what type of mother would I have been to say oh xmm, you know that you make more than 5 grand a year..........if you want to give her 60.00 a month and not fulfill her needs as YOU PROMISEd you'd do that is okay.....go and be happy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> CS is not nogotable........alminoy and other things are.

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: needtomoveon ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ktbunch:
<strong>

........well, the man does benefit too..FREE SEX, for the time being.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, a woman's worth is only sex?

A woman can't possibly offer anything else to a man when in a relationship? The man's only gain in a relationship is sex?

Sorry KT, this statement is absurd.

NTMO-

You misunderstood me. Completely my fault. Let me try again. I do not believe c.s. should be based on income.

I think that if the average rent in you area is $600.00 a month for 2 brs. $300.00 is your share and $300.00 pays for the child. Each parent responsible for $150.00. If you choose to live in a house with a $1500.00 a month mortgage, not the other parents responsibility. Each parent should be responsible for 1/2 food, shelter,clothing, and medical under the same guidelines. Anything else provided for the child is the parent's individual choice to do so.

As cs is worked out now it is dependent on the parent's income levels. This affords lifestyle, which is not an obligation of any parent. This current method also allows certain irreputable people to abuse the system. A good example was in my recent hosital stay a young mother was in the nursery after just having given birth to her fourth son. She was complaining that she would have to go through social services to get c.s. yet again, as her other 3 children all have different dads. This young woman is recieving roughly 25% of 4 different men's income. She is being paid the equivalent of a full-time job for doing nothing more then .....well, scr*wing around. If the average cs payment is between $500.00-$750.00 a month, I wastd my time and money in college. (I have 6 kids)


It just makes more sense to calculate child support based on what it actually takes to raise a child in your area then to base it on the parents income.

CLO:
MY point was about what the MAN would be getting out of it & what he is PAYING for in the end.

DO you think people choose to SHACK UP for good conversation? LOL (maybe for the housekeeping?LOL)

Because this man was gonna have to pay for a child that was NOT even his BECAUSE he married & lived w/ that woman. SO...that is what he got in return.......SEX!(albeit very EXPENSIVE sex) (but then again....maybe it was worth her cooking?)


xoxoxox
kt

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

I'm saying that you can't reduce their relationship to only sex.

I have some wonderful ex's with some hot, hot sex but what they gave me intellectually, emotionally and spiritually greatly exceeded any benefit that sex could give.

CLO- KT is referring to Canadian cs laws....jeesh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Happy,
I know, but in her post, she made a statement that I, as a woman, felt was demeaning a woman's worth to a man. That a man can only gain "sex" from a woman and nothing more.

Maybe you should give him a lesson on INFLATION becuase if he's paying out $200 in 2nd/3rd grade.......imagine what a girl will cost him in the future? LOL

My twenty five years brother told me my son was probably smart in doing this. He said my son was placing "it" on layaway but locking in today's prices. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I have come to realize that some men are sometimes really jaded on this subject.

Sorry CLO I thought you were taking it the wrong way.

I think all people are treated the way they allow themselves to be.

IF the relationships are SO meaningful, deep, intellectually stimulating & satisfying---they would have stayed married.

And I was not referring to women but THAT women.

Although, ANY woman who WILLINGLY demeans herself in this way & then behaves in this fashion, as this women, has ONLY demeaned her OWN value of herself, nothing I say has anything to do w/ that.

xoxo
kt

Child support is a given. HOWEVER, in my case (and these are not the real numbers, just an abstract example)

OW makes about $25,000 per year.

Husband makes about $100,000 a year.

I make about $100,000 a year.

We then combined companies and altered our income to:

Husband making $25,000 per year

I made 175,000 a year.

Based on the huge difference in income, why should the ow get more money in child support then she makes? What she got was adequate to shelter, clothe and care for him. IT is NOT illegal to Incorporate and to work hard. In our case the child never missed a cs payment. Not once. But we were certainly going to protect our financial futures and do everything we could legally to protect our childrens future.

Afterall, we buy insurance incase we get sick or hurt to protect our financial futures don't we? Same thing. Had we not hired laywers, it would have been easy for the courts to rubber stamp the "dad pays health insurance, cs and child care..." and then MM and his family are paying for more then their fare share. Our attorney brought up the 50/50 on the insurance. The courts agreed it was fair. Our attorney brought up the "no family members as babysitters, had to be a licensed daycare facility, open to audit" Courts agreed. She wanted us to pay her sister. Nope. Not going to happen. It may be eaiser on the courts to rubber stamp and move these through the system, but we fought it and we won many a battle. I feel that oc child support was more then adequate, especially when one considers ow income. This was afterall, an affair, not a marriage. The child is due child support, no doubt. But our standard of living, materially, was quite different from hers. We should not have to elevate her standard of living to equal ours. If she makes $2,500 a month why on earth should child support ever be anywhere near that amount? It would mean we would be paying 100% of his support.

The oc in our case had superior insurance coverage on our 50% then anyone else in her household. He had dental and was her only child to get braces. She doesn't even have dental on her other children (3 kids, 3 different fathers, and married to a man who is father to none). So from my point of view, considering her abilities, it would be unfair for us to pay 25% of his income to her. It should be 25% of the parent with the lowest wage, so that is what my husband made. Was it fair? Well, to me and my kids it certainly was. Was it cruel to oc? No. OW received her cs, as set forth by the state, all legal, on time each month. Child support is child support. It should not eleveate the standard of living for the whole family of the ow. It is to pay for 50% of the necessaties of raising a child. It is not necessary to go to Disneyworld, or to ski or go to dancing. Food, shelter, clothing, are necessary. So, based on where she lived, taxes, cost per SF of space in her neighborhood, etc. She actually received far more then it would have cost to raise him, in her lifestyle.

I think that NTMO gets irritated <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> that we did that and sees it as unfair to the oc. But, just as ow get laywers and go after every dime they can get....so too will the mm and his wife get laywers and protect every dime they can. It's the nature of the beast. Two sides. Nothing is fair to anyone in this situation. You protect yours. I will protect mine. Just as NTMO gets angry and sees it as unfair to the oc, I just don't see it that way. It would have been unfair to our family to pay one child more in one month then his mother made. Thereby taking away from my children.

Look, the whole thing is ugly, seedy, disgusting, embarrassing, frustrating, etc. So many ow want everyone to behave like adults, do what is best for the children, etc......I did behave like an adult. I hired an attorney to protect my interests, I looked out for the best interests of my children.

LynnG,

I think NTMO is irritated because her child's father makes $15,000 a month and claimed he only made $5,000 a month.

I think NTMO is irritated because the courts ordered him to pay for medical insurance months ago in which he has yet to provide.

I think NTMO is irritated because while xMM is driving a $60,000 car and his W has a $300 purse hanging off her shoulder, her D has no crib to sleep in.

I think NTMO is irritated because her CS doesn't even cover daycare, much less diapers, formula, clothing, doctors appointments, etc. all because xMM shifted his funds, just as your H did.

Correct me if I'm wrong NTMO, but that is how I read things after following your story.

Lynn of course the judge did........first of all you lied about his income and apprently SHE did not have a good attorney. Xmm tried that, and with NO help from my attorney only on my accord and investagtion found out the truth and had my attorney do the approiate paperwork and he was unable to lie lie lie anymore.