So TWO wrongs make a RIGHT Pepperband???

Wow Pep that was a short one. I was wondering when we would see you....you have not been around much hope all is well with you.....
I agree adultry is ugly but the fact of the matter is when it happens you have to go on and do the best you can do with what you got. It's just the same ole fight and even saying ow don't put bc equal and vise a versa and really I've never said that..........I know I've done what I have to do with what I had and my child will be just fine. I hope that xmm's kids will be just fine. And hopefully if they do right by them they will....(not lbing in front of them, and re-building etc)

Threadjack-
I just wanted to say that it's nice to have a healthy debate/discussion about this here.

Thanks to the moderators and everyone who is willing to be open minded and participate in a diplomatic discussion which includes both sides of the situation.

Sorry, I don't buy the "He told me he was in the process of a divorce..." excuse. A divorce is not final until papers are in hand. When I met my husband, he was "in the process of divorce," but when it came time to sleep together, I told him once you show me your final divorce decree, we'll discuss taking our relationship to the next level.

The very next day he was on the phone to his attorney and within the next two months his divorce was final. After all was said and done, he showed up at my house with a beautiful bouquet of flowers in one hand and his divorce decree in the other. My words to him "Finally! You're single!"

Peace,
99

99,
Yeah, I learned my lesson on that one.

My bad for trusting the guy.

It's sad that people lie, but you hear about this kind of thing happening all the time.

I'll never forget the day I was at his house baking Christmas cookies. We had been engaged about six months by that time and I hear a knock on the door, open it and this woman introduces herself as my husband's wife. I just started laughing! I thought "Wow, what a slick operator having faked the decree..." So I invited her in and we chatted...

Turns out she was just trying to intimidate me and they were divorced when he had said so.

Point being, you just never know--it just pays to be as cautious as possible.

Peace,
99

That's weird!

Women are so crazy sometimes (myself included). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

All this reminds me of my aunt, C, who, after her exh was killed in a car crash 2 years ago, discovered that her ex had never divorced his first wife. So the large amount of money she spent to get a divorce years before could have been used for other things had she known. And at the time of his death, was planning on getting married yet again. (Sad to say, but even his parents knew he was still married and never told my aunt who called them every month to keep in touch since her ex never seemed to do it.)

Its actually a long drawn out story but she and the first wife were enemies for a year or two after the story broke. Now they have gotten to the point where they meet each other for vacations so that all the children can spend time with one another.

Part of what made me want contact is the fact that my H is adopted;he knew his birth mom but never who is birth dad was, and he told me,and I saw, how much that hurt him, and knew in my heart I could never do that to another child, the other was knowing this child is innocent and a gift from God!
We all have to decide what to do in our own individual situations.
H's parents <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , never considerd him their child <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> , they to this day call him thier adopted son, NOT SON,and they call them selves his adopted parents <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , not his parents, and they treat him completely differnet than thier natural children. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: angels1966 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by needtomoveon:
you have not been around much hope all is well with you.....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FANtastic really!

My little boy (18 ~LOL~) is starting to behave like a human being .... and I am on my knees every day THANKING GOD for the progress <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I hope you are FANtastic as well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree adultry is ugly but the fact of the matter is when it happens you have to go on and do the best you can do with what you got.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You and I see eye to eye many times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

That's my point ... do the best with what ya got.... like my 18 year old.... he entered the world a receipient of his parent's screwed up choices .... and then when we finally got him (age 3 ) we did the best we could with this little kid.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Can you tell how utterly HAPPY I feel ??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CheerfulLittleOne:
So TWO wrongs make a RIGHT Pepperband??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honestly, I don't know whatthehell you're talking about
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by angels1966:
<strong> Part of what made me want contact is the fact that my H is adopted;he knew his birth mom but never who is birth dad was, and he told me,and I saw, how much that hurt him, and knew in my heart I could never do that to another child, the other was knowing this child is innocent and a gift from God!
We all have to decide what to do in our own individual situations.
H's parents <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , never considerd him their child <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> , they to this day call him thier adopted son, NOT SON,and they call them selves his adopted parents <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , not his parents, and they treat him completely differnet than thier natural children. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Angels that is so sad. When you adopt a child, that is just that there child. I have a lot of friends who have adopted children and not one of them have said that about there children. They are there children! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Pep:
I'm glad to hear your doing so well......and best of all your 18 year old. I will tell you that pre teens to where you are at scares me to death. Most of my friends have kids at that age (as I started late) and boy do they go through some stuff......and I've got two the same age <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . Shows that you've done a great job with your little boy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and he has seen the light. I hope it continues to go forward....and I'm doing great too!!!! Still working on my nerve in the neck problem, but it's getting better <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CheerfulLittleOne:
So TWO wrongs make a RIGHT Pepperband??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honestly, I don't know whatthehell you're talking about
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1 Child born from adultery
+ 1 One of those parents refusing to parent
______
Right? We've corrected the situation now?


Just because the adults who created this child created a difficult situation for others makes it right to then deprive this child of their right to know their parent? It gives one of these parents the right to walk away from a responsibility to a child they created?

I don't want to hear that xMM had no choice, that the xOW thrusts this upon the man. Read my posts. I gave him the choice and he chose to have this child with me and then he LATER walked away from this child.

He created this child WITH me, he CHOSE to bring this child into the world with me and then he bailed out on his parental obligations to the child he helped bring into the world. Money is no substitute for a father.


OBVIOUSLY having a child in an adulterous situation is wrong. But the child is here.

Does walking away from that child as a parent make it right???


xMM wouldn't have to walk away from his W or his children to be a parent to the child he created.
It CAN work, and SunnyD, Entwife, Angels1966, Wife30 and Tylorsstepmom are just a few examples of this.

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: CheerfulLittleOne ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1 Child born from adultery
+ 1 One of those parents refusing to parent
______
Right? We've corrected the situation now?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I see what you are saying ....
No, the situation which adultery created cannot BE corrected ....
There is NO correction.
Only decisions after the fact are how to deal with what has been damaged.

THERE IS NO CORRECTION! Choosing adultery is choosing the consequences of living with a screwed up situation.

After the fact ... when the adultery has been stopped .... the choices remaining to all involed are:

1. Make the best of the circumstances.

2. Make the worst of the circumstances.

3. A little of both <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Adultery is a non-correctable life-altering decision. (as are many other things in life <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Even if the absent parent chooses to become involved with their child born of adultery .... it is still a sub-optimal situation for the child. UNcorrectable by any standards. No amount of "white out" fluid can change the facts or the truth that adultery is an evil brought to the table and served to the child by two adults who only thought of themselves.

The "best of" anyone's post-adultery meal choices ... are different ... according to where everyone sits at their own table.

There is no "right" after screwing the pooch. There is only damage control according to everyone's individual needs, desires, and abilities.

Adultery guarantees limited choices after the fact.

There is no correcting ... only opportunities to live the best you can with what you have as a result of your own choices.

Pep

Ahhhh Pepperband, we see eye to eye here.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CheerfulLittleOne:
<strong> Ahhhh Pepperband, we see eye to eye here.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps there is still room for us to disagree <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You said 2 wrongs don't make a right. And by the 2nd wrong, you mean the father deciding he does not choose to parent his OC is a "wrong".

I say that is not necessarily true. It might be the right decision, and it might be the wrong decision .... according to his needs, desires, and abilities.

In any case, it is none of your business to judge his post-adultery choice as right or wrong.

Your business is yourself and your post-affair choices.

There is no "fair" there is no "right" there is only "make the best of" available after choosing adultery and making a child.

Pep

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

It's right for all of the adults in most cases, but in my opinion, the child is wronged by NC because they have the right to know both individuals who created them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 1 Child born from adultery
+ 1 One of those parents refusing to parent
______
Right? We've corrected the situation now? QUOTE]

There is a huge hole it this theme, though.

NC or otherwise-- THE SITUATION IS NEVER, EVER "CORRECTED". The xMM (and BW from OW P.O.V) may be seen as dumping all behind and simply "WALKING".. "ESCAPING RESPONSIBILITY/REPROCUSSOINS"... However, the pain goes on for the bw/xmm and family for a very, very long time. Children of the marriage are many times in the front seat watching their FAMILY AND LIFE abruptly falling apart- watching their mother wither away to nothing- hearing the aweful screams and sobs behind closed doors. You cannot HIDE it all when the pain is so horrid in this home.

So the 2 wrongs --- they are never made truly "right"-- the two wrongs (MM and OW)... make a situation for themselves, the OC, the BC--
that are simply dealt with and smoothed over afterwars as best as one can. The OW goes to her corner to lick the wounds of her and her child...the BW goes to her corner to lick the wounds of herself and her child(ren). The MM cannot father a child of his own flesh and blood and he WILL (even if not IMMEDIATELY) carry this burden FOREVER- he will FOREVER have this looming over him- he does cry and he WILL suffer FOR THIS-- AND-- THEN ADD ON ANOTHER PART OF XMM'S part of the punishment-- THE PAIN he watches the LONG LOVED AND KNOWN children and WIFE suffer through.
Then add on the large CS amounts he has to deal with- and W has to deal with that were for HER children AND FAMILY.

And OW----- IN MY OPINION-- she has the shortest road of pain to come to the end of. She cries for a time over losing a man that was ALWAYS knew to be with another-- so she gets over that part -- and then she gets to love and enjoy her precious little one. YES she will bust her a** to raise her child on her own without the physical presence of a man / father. But she does NOT have the NASTY job (unless a MOW) of LIVING every day in the faces of NUMEROUS family members judging, crying, scowling, screaming, falling apart.

THE MM I DO NOT FEEL SORRY FOR in general-- BUT THIS IS JUST what he GETS, a fact.

SO... not put "shortly".... LOL
CLO there is NOT EVER a way to CORRECT per say or TAKE THE EASY WAY out as Marysway said-----

Hearts heal, but are forever scarred,and lives are forever altered in many ways for all parties.

YES any child AND HUMAN- that means ME TOO- deserves to NOT suffer such travesties. OC not having a fathers is NOT the only thing we can consider in this mess. OC is JUST ONE OF MANY children and GOD'S children (YES ME AS BW TOO!) Who are greatly harmed and will suffer because of the A........

So the OC is just another CHILD OF GOD who will be taken care of by HIM ultimately... and who will be soothed and cared for (as BW,MM,OW,BC,OC)... and will go on to live the best they can.

NOTHING related to the A will EVER be good for OC. NOTHING related to the A will EVER be good for ANY of US- ANY SIDE.

THE XMM is THE ONLY HUMAN IN THIS situation that is NOT afforded the right to JUST FIND A WAY TO LIVE again.

[QUOTE] Just because the adults who created this child created a difficult situation for others makes it right to then deprive this child of their right to know their parent? It gives one of these parents the right to walk away from a responsibility to a child they creat </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No one has a "right" to do anything. I stand firm that sins can be GRACIOUSLY forgiven!!! But also-- SIN creates situations that are often painful LONG LONG after the original sin. WE CAN'T just make it all okay ladies. EVEN W/C it will not just BE OK! OW is doing right by her child and she can shine in the sun with her child and with the pride of a MOTHER who TOOK a hard road ALONE.

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: giovanna123 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CheerfulLittleOne:
It's right for all of the adults in most cases, but in my opinion, the child is wronged by NC because they have the right to know both individuals who created them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The child is wronged by adultery.

YOUR wrong made this outcome a possibility. YOU decided this for your child when you chose adultery.

Pep