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if all the back patting is over may i ask who this more than 6 yo old thread was bumped for and why I saw someone reading this monstrosity in who's online yesterday and read it myself. I am sure you are as sickened as I am by reading it, no? I wonder how many marriages were lost on this forum over the years because of the bizarre, anti-marriage views that were promoted here? It is heartbreaking to read this kind of anti-marriage crap on a board that is furnished by Dr Harley.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Never read this one. My life hadn't been destroyed yet back then. I am glad that you both bump up the other old threads with the "Good Advice". to help the newbies and assist the not so newbies who can't find the old threads to help the newbies.
Me BS
D Day 4-2-2005
OC born 12-2004
DS 21, DS 12
Married 1993
May the love hidden deep inside your heart find the love waiting in your dreams. May the laughter that you find in your tomorrow wipe away the pain you find in your yesterdays.
Recovering....it's a long road, even with a dedicated FWH
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if all the back patting is over I like "back patting" when it follows the action of inserting Harley MB concepts into the conversation...... Thank you very much. 
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actually it didn't sicken me. i was actually saddened
while i am in NO WAY advocating being "friends" with the op (i will never be friends with the om) i do agree with some of the discussion that you may have to be civil at times
what i read was a thread not by ow, but by 12 women trying to figure out how to make the best of this crappy situation they found themselves in
2 things saddened me
1 - that the thread was interuped by someone taking offense at the term "act like an adult". there was never any inclination or hint that the term had anything to do with people who chose nc. the meaning in the conversation was kept in the context of the thread only
2 - by the harsh line in the sand attitude by the conversation after it was bumped
as an example i will use our situation.
we cannot afford someone to act as a intermediary for pick-up's and drop-off's twice a week and the court will not order one
we also have no family members or friends that will take on the same chore for 18 years
so we are left to do the best we can of and handle those times by ourselves
also while i am 99% of the time the go between there are times when i am out of town for work and my w takes one of the other kids with her
for the best interest of our COM and the oc we have learned to be civil during these exchanges and not throw bricks at each other and there is civil comunication about certain issues, school, health, etc
from what i have read here latey is a very "our way or the highway" attitude and that also is depressing. and i am only talking about this paticular forum
with the uncountable scenerios for people getting thru this situation i only hope that they are not chased away or discouraged by those hard lines
me-59 ww-55
married 1979 - together since 1974
6 kids together 15,19,21,23,29,30
my oldest son 37
d-day (confession day) memorial day 2001
oc born 12/20/01
now 8 grandchildren
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2 - by the harsh line in the sand attitude by the conversation after it was bumped And I view this bizarre hyper-focus on "harshness" as a distraction from sane direction on this board. This insane focus on the tone of some posters has been used Ad nauseam as a means to shut those down who were advocating true marital recovery and sane self protective measures. That won't work with me, though. I don't care what you say about my "tone." I would point out that the lack of tone has not served you well. I just want to remind you that is DR HARLEY'S board, pops, and he very much takes a "hard line" in the sand when it comes to marital recovery. Not using a hard line in your own case has not helped your OWN marriage. Using your situation as an example does not impress me because you and I both know that your marriage NEVER RECOVERED and that your wife and her OM are still in contact. You might use your situation as a worse case example, but you sure cannot use it as an example of success. And that is what this board is FOR. It is for MARITAL RECOVERY. It is a crying shame to consider all the marriages that were lost here because Dr Harley's views were swept under the rug.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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for the best interest of our COM and the oc we have learned to be civil during these exchanges and not throw bricks at each other and there is civil comunication about certain issues, school, health, etc First off, no one ever advocated "throwing bricks" at anyone. However, it is ridiculous to assert that you are operating in the best interest of your COM when you have all but destroyed your marriage by ignoring simple basic rules put out by Dr Harley. It is in the best interest of the COM to have parents with an intact, happy, secure marriage. One does not need to pay money to have an intermediary. We have helped hundreds of couples through Plan B on the SAA and they don't pay a dime. Its not that hard to manage when someone is truly willing. Being "civil" to a terrorist is nothing to brag about when your marriage is crumbling because the affairees are still in touch. There is nothing virtuous about being "civil" to the OM under those conditions.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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with all A's there are TWO terrorists. the OP and the spouse
and quite frankly the leader is the spouse IMHO
to recover a marriage i surely hope one can learn to be civil with their spouse
and "throwing bricks" was not meant to actually throw bricks
you don't have to remind me who's board it is. i surely know after many years and your constant reminders that it is DR. Harley's.
here's a suggestion for you. why don't you suggest to the board to go back and censor all these old posts that "you" percieve to be evil and negative. then you wouldn't have to worry about what anyone else reads
Happy Memorial Day, where we Honor all those who have gone before us and laid down there lives so we can speak freely
me-59 ww-55
married 1979 - together since 1974
6 kids together 15,19,21,23,29,30
my oldest son 37
d-day (confession day) memorial day 2001
oc born 12/20/01
now 8 grandchildren
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where's a suggestion for you. why don't you suggest to the board to go back and censor all these old posts that "you" percieve to be evil and negative. then you wouldn't have to worry about what anyone else reads Here is a suggestion to you, pops. And I mean this sincerely. Fix yourself before you commence to fix others. Fix your own marriage by actually USING Marriage Builders concepts, then you will be in a position to help others. There are many others here who understand Marriage Builders and would help you in that regard. Rather than lashing out at posters who point out some of the dreadful, marriage wrecking advice that has passed for wisdom on this forum, and trying to shut others up, why not focus on something productive like fixing your own marriage? Wouldn't that be much more productive than dismissing good advice because you deem it too "harsh?"
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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melody let's try and stay on topic. the topic was this thread not my marriage.
i have no problem debating my marriage but start another thread and we will get to it.
of course you know that would be fruitless.
it would simply be a "mel says vs pops says" debate.
i will not be able to actually prove to you where we are and you will have no true evidence to the contrary except for your opinions
me-59 ww-55
married 1979 - together since 1974
6 kids together 15,19,21,23,29,30
my oldest son 37
d-day (confession day) memorial day 2001
oc born 12/20/01
now 8 grandchildren
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melody let's try and stay on topic. the topic was this thread not my marriage.
i have no problem debating my marriage but start another thread and we will get to it. oh no, *YOU* brought your own marriage up on this thread today when you said this: "as an example i will use our situation. for the best interest of our COM and the oc we have learned to be civil during these exchanges and not throw bricks at each other and there is civil comunication about certain issues, school, health, etc" So it is very appropriate to point out HERE that your own tactics have not worked for YOU. You have proven with your own marriage that this advice does not work. You posted this just last September 2010: "my marriage has managed to survive 10 years since our d day. is it whole and we are still a family but it is far from perfect yes i know the paternity of the oc. but it was pretty hard to hide the fact since i had had a vasectomy 6 years prior. however some problems have arisen these past few months in our marriage that have led to talks of separation between the 2 of us. not A stuff but just with the many stress's that we are facing right now." here
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I just wanted to know how many BWs get along w/ their ow and vice versa? And if you do get along w/ your OW what are some ways you have found an equilibrium? I really would like to have a better relationship w/ ow and wanted to know how others are dealing w/ it. Thanks in advance for your help. THIS is why this old topic is relevant today. The original poster asked a question. The BETRAYED WIFE thinks she should get along with the OW. "Have a better relationship with OW" ....  WHY is this even necessary? Since this is a MB forum, FIRST AND FOREMOST our NUMBER ONE purpose is to serve the marriage, not the OM/OW/ or even the OC. Making friendships/relationships with the OW/OM does NOT , in any conceivable way, serve the betterment of THE MARRIAGE. If you, Pops, think otherwise, please enlighten me as to how building a better "relationship" with the OM/OW helps the marriage. And, if a friendship with OM/OW is likely to HARM the marriage, and it is, then why should any betrayed spouse be told to pursue that "relationship". The marriage comes first. Always.
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from what i have read here latey is a very "our way or the highway" attitude and that also is depressing. and i am only talking about this paticular forum
with the uncountable scenerios for people getting thru this situation i only hope that they are not chased away or discouraged by those hard lines Welcome to the
Marriage Builders� Discussion Forum
This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Here you will find what you need as it relates to the Marriage Builders� principles that can be found in the Basic Concepts, Articles, and Q&A Columns of the Marriage Builders web site. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders� Bookstore.
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One of the most important requirements for becoming a member is that you read all of Dr. Harley's Ten Basic Concepts. Click the tab "Basic Concepts" above on the header to find them. The purpose of this Forum is to help couples use those Basic Concepts to overcome marital conflicts and restore romantic love.
Many of our members have been in shoes similar if not the same as yours. They begin by asking questions and, with the help of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts, other members point them in a direction that will solve their problem. After their problem is solved, they often stay on to help new members with their own experience, perspective, and opinion.
Sometimes you may hear alternative opinions that conflict with Dr. Harley's Ten Basic Concepts. These are often raised by those who have not solved their own marital problems, but still feel they are qualified to advise others. When this happens you can expect some members to explain why their approach won't work, and why Marriage Builders� offers a better solution. There are many who are offended when that happens, but please keep in mind that the ultimate purpose of this Forum is to discuss and learn Marriage Builders� concepts.
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pops, to Pepperbands point, this thread is an example of some of the horrific, marriage wrecking advice that reigned supreme on this forum for years.
Yet instead of focusing on that aspect, your focus is on the "harshness" of some of the posters. Regardless of how "harsh" you think posters are, it does not negate the destructive advice being given.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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but please keep in mind that the ultimate purpose of this Forum is to discuss and learn Marriage Builders� concepts.
Try not to be offended when we bring MB concepts into the mix. And when we do it repeatedly. Try not to be offended when we point out what is non-MB-compatable advice/opinion. Try listening to the MB radio broadcast which was linked by Melodylane. NO CONTACT FOR LIFE .... because MARRIAGE BUILDING is FIRST AND FOREMOST in this and all MB forums.
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click here Want to make sure this is not missed. It is a must hear!
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melody let's try and stay on topic. the topic was this thread not my marriage.
i have no problem debating my marriage but start another thread and we will get to it. oh no, *YOU* brought your own marriage up on this thread today when you said this: "as an example i will use our situation. for the best interest of our COM and the oc we have learned to be civil during these exchanges and not throw bricks at each other and there is civil comunication about certain issues, school, health, etc" So it is very appropriate to point out HERE that your own tactics have not worked for YOU. You have proven with your own marriage that this advice does not work. You posted this just last September 2010: "my marriage has managed to survive 10 years since our d day. is it whole and we are still a family but it is far from perfect yes i know the paternity of the oc. but it was pretty hard to hide the fact since i had had a vasectomy 6 years prior. however some problems have arisen these past few months in our marriage that have led to talks of separation between the 2 of us. not A stuff but just with the many stress's that we are facing right now." here .... why not go full throttle MB Plan? Your M is limping along because you are not really working MB. i think fh and i are doing pretty well but also see where many times we are just "limping" along also. maybe it is complacency (?) or just being tired of the constant battle that allows us to plod on that way. maybe it's spme fear of something or lack of being able to see a different future then what our past has shown us. it is at those times when things slip back into my mind. i do not attribute them to my w's A tho. what i attribute them to is her lack of fulfilling/meeting my biggest en's. hereYour W shows a callousness and a lack of empathy/caring towards you. Your wife shows you no respect. Why is that? Don't you think it's past time to demand a better marriage? Call the Harleys. Email the radio program. You do not need to be this unhappy. How's that for a non harsh comment? 
Last edited by Pepperband; 05/29/11 02:36 PM. Reason: link
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if all the back patting is over I like "back patting" when it follows the action of inserting Harley MB concepts into the conversation...... Thank you very much. I'd say the two back patting recipients here certainly deserved it. God knows they have helped hundreds of couples rebuild their marriages. Not to mention to grow up and start acting like adults. 
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I remember reading pops justifications going after the OM for CS.
Then later on:
I remember pops later complaining about continued contact and wishing he never went after the OM for CS so there could be NC with the OM.
Many BH do this. They don't want to see the OM get off free after having their fun with their WW and leaving them with the cost and work to raise an OC. So they will spout off justifications for contact.
Yes a BH can love the OC and accept it but it's not like being able to forget that the WW had a PA for 99% of the time.
Having a OC in your home is the same as files of the PA on your hard drive and looking at them every day. For 18 years, and then some.
Having to face the OC everyday is one thing because the OC is innocent. A whole nother thing with the OM/OW.
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Yes a BH can love the OC and accept it but it's not like being able to forget that the WW had a PA for 99% of the time.
Having a OC in your home is the same as files of the PA on your hard drive and looking at them every day. For 18 years, and then some. Road, I don't think you're actually qualified to say this, considering the fact that you've never had an OC. I can guarantee you that it's not like this at all. The term "OC" doesn't exist in our house at all. I don't use it (other than when I come here) and neither does my H. She's simply our daughter. My H considers her his own child in every way. She isn't a constant reminder of the A or the OM. She's simply his daughter. If you could see them together, then maybe you would understand what I mean. But since you can't, I guess you'll just have to take my word for it (or not). Looking at my daughter is NOT the same as looking at pictures of the OM everyday. She isn't the OM. She is herself, an autonomous human being. I don't know, do you walk around everyday thinking of yourself as little more than a reflection of your parents? I would be very depressed if that's how I saw myself, considering my relationship with my family. I don't care much what anonymous people on an internet forum think about me anymore, which is why I don't come here very often these days. But it does bother me when someone who has never lived an experience proclaims to know how it feels for those who have.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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