The Road is allowed to render opinions about situations where he has no first hand experience.
As am I. I am allowed.

You, dearest Writer, are qualified to render your opinions based on your experience.
First hand experience is a nifty qualification, I'd say.

The cool thing is, we can always return to the Harley basic concepts when we squabble about how a marriage might recover from adultery.
It's so great to have a "home base" for our discussions.

Pep, maybe it would come across a little better if The Road stated it as an opinion. Instead of saying "The OC is a constant reminder of the OM," say instead, "For me, personally, I think the OC would be a constant reminder of the OM."

The way it was stated, it sounded sort of like a blanket statement that all BS's would find the OC to be a constant reminder of the AP, which simply isn't true. Road can believe it's true, but in our case it isn't.

Road can believe his own words.
But in reality, he just has opinions which are not to be confused with facts.

Try not to let him get to you.
I think it's super the way you've stood up and defended your marriage and the decisions you've made with your husband.
You are to be admired for facing the struggle and for not giving up.
I admire people who are willing to fight for their family.

That includes you, Writer.

Thanks Pep.

There are certain things I'm still sensitive to, but I'm working on it.

Well said, pep!

""""""""""""""however some problems have arisen these past few months in our marriage that have led to talks of separation between the 2 of us. not A stuff but just with the many stress's that we are facing right now."""""""""'

yep i said that on 9/26/10. the problems that arose were financial where we were facing losing our house and all that we had. we considered separating with fh moving in with her parents and applying to the county for asssistance for the kids.

luckily God took control and we were able to stay in the house and together

like many when faced with a seemingly unsurmountable dilema we didn't think in the most rational way.

and yes 2 1/2 years ago i said

"""""""""""'i think fh and i are doing pretty well but also see where many times we are just "limping" along also. maybe it is complacency (?) or just being tired of the constant battle that allows us to plod on that way. maybe it's spme fear of something or lack of being able to see a different future then what our past has shown us.

it is at those times when things slip back into my mind.

i do not attribute them to my w's A tho. what i attribute them to is her lack of fulfilling/meeting my biggest en's."""""""""

i am confused as to what this was brought up for. if rying to relate to another member with similar feelings is to be thrown back at us regularly. i have no reply to that

if the answer is to say that my mariage is perfect then i will never be able to say that. is anyones marriage ever perfect? if they were then there would be no cause to put precautions in place.

remember we're talking about the "perfect"

given the opportunity to relive my marriage without a single change, would I?

Unconditionaly YES

road

i agree with writer completely. oc is a term i only use here. it is never uttered in our house.

in fact if you read back in my posts you will see that i used her name (grace) instead of oc many many times.

she is my daughter and i would not change that for anything in the world

So well said, Pep

pep what do you want me to do to go "full throttle mb" ?

we already follow the priciples of poja, rad honesty, completely transparent, etc

the only thing we do not do that is recommended is have no contact with om.

for us in our situation that is not an option. and that doesn't mean that if possible in wouldn't be implamented.

what it means is that in OUR case there is no way to implament it.

soooo, while i agree that being "friends" with om/ow is not my cup of tea. i will support and encourage those who have made that choice for whatever reasons they found necessary to make there individual situation work.

and i am only talking about situations regarding this particular forum.

and i would assume that if writer is qualified to offer opinions based on her experiences then i would be afforded the same opportunity

i don't see that as spewing anti mb principles or disrespecting anyone.

Well, this isn't exactly on topic, but then again, this is a pretty old thread and the person who started it isn't here looking for help, so I don't suppose that matters too much.

Generally, I think it's very difficult to say what you would do in a particular situation until you actually find yourself in it. It's very easy to say what you think you would do, but you never really know until you get there.

A lot of people have come down hard on Pops because he didn't choose NC with the OM. It's easy to say that what he did was wrong and that you'd never do it that way - until you actually find yourself in the situation. The truth of the matter is, there isn't an "easy" way to deal with an OC situation. There is no win-win solution to this dilemma. No matter what choice is made, someone gets hurt, someone misses out on something. Because of this, there just isn't one right answer that works for everyone all of the time.

Sometimes the AP pushes for contact and is willing to take the matter to court, so NC becomes legally impossible. Sometimes, as in Pops', case the BS feels that (for whatever reason) they need to hold the OP responsible for their actions. As I understand it, Pops had concerns about his age and his health and he wasn't sure if he'd be physically able to provide for the OC. You can disagree with that decision all you want, but Pops took a very uncertain, messy situation and he did the best he could with it. When an A results in an OC, that's about all you can do.

Yes, NC is ideal, but it simply may not be possible in every situation.

Sometimes, I wonder if I did the right thing by choosing NC. Financially, the decision has ruined us. I didn't get to stay in my house. I'm living through foreclosure on our home and probable bankruptcy. We now live in a 2-bedroom apartment, our teenage son sleeps on a folding sofa, our older sons are living with their grandparents while they go to school because we have no room for them, and we barely make ends meet. Not all of our financial problems are a result of our OC, but having NC (and no child support from the OM) has certainly made things a lot worse than they otherwise would have been. It's hard to tell someone to ruin themselves financially for life just to ensure NC. I'm not sure if I'll ever know whether or not this was the right decision.

I too have been accused of not having a fully-recovered M, though I have no idea why. I have NC with the OM (and my H has NC with his OW), we have EP's in place, we practice RH & POJA and do our best to meet each other's EN's. LB's are still a problem, but we are constantly working on them. As Pops said, no my M isn't perfect, but I don't think many people have a "perfect" M. Just because my M isn't perfect however, doesn't mean that it isn't fully-Recovered from mine and my H's A's. The problems in my M now (other than some of the financial ones) have absolutely nothing to do with infidelity. To me, I have a completely-recovered, though still imperfect, M. I am a work in progress, as is my M.

I will explain why it was brought up. Because you continually use your marriage as a example when you promote non-MB methods such as those promoted on this thread. As such, I will continue to point out that you are in a NON-RECOVERED marriage that is so shaky that separation is still discussed. The fact that it involved financial issues does not negate that point, it proves my point. It is clear you haven't used this program to successfully negotiate conflict and that is the point. Couples that are in love don't discuss separation and divorce. You are not a success story, you don't even USE Marriage Builders.

It is ok if you give advice on this forum, but when you persist in giving NON-MB advice, AGAINST THE RULES OF THIS BOARD, it will be pointed out. In fact, I have all your posts on my watch list so I can watch them and report them if need be. I will never forget how you gave TheRoad hell last year when he told a newcomer that absolute no contact with the OP had to be observed in order to save the marriage. [Dr Harley's own advice!] You told him he was being unrealistic. oh no, that won't happen again.

It doesn't matter if we ALL are in that situation and are allowing contact with the OP, it does not make it RIGHT or SMART. That position cannot be defended. I don't have to be in that position to know that. It is bullcrap to say that ending contact with the OP is "not easy;" it is staying in contact that is not easy. Divorce is not easy. Being triggered by an OP is not easy. Cutting off contact with an OP PALES in comparison. So don't tell me it is not easy.It is a walk in the park compared to a resumed affair or a divorce.

And I don't have to be in that position to know that this is Marriage Builders, not "Pops How to Cut Corners and Ruin your Marriage" board. This is Dr Harley's board, in case anyone missed the sign on the door. And he HAS saved hundreds of marriages using these principles.

So yes, there is one right answer to this. It is "NO CONTACT FOR LIFE WITH THE OP." <----that is the ONE right answer. Anyone who doesn't agree wtih that is free to go start their own board and push that agenda. But this board is DR. HARLEYS. It won't be pushed here to newcomers.

It might not be "easy" to cut off all contact, yet many do it. It can be done and it should be done if one wants to save their marriages. To say this isn't important is a tragic disservice to newcomers who come here and read this board. They need help saving their marriages, not help in destroying them.

[
WRONGO. Dr Bill Harley: "The WS cannot see or talk to the "lover" the rest of his/her life."

and

"While that policy seems very rigid and uncaring toward the child, the alternatives are usually disastrous. Having an old lover around, the cause of your husband's greatest sadness, has such an devastating effect on the marriage that few survive. Having heard from some of the couples who have followed this way of thinking, and others who have done the opposite, I am confident that it is the best approach to your situation." <---that is the ONE right answer.

Staying in touch with the OP<--------------ONE wrong answer

And this is not true. Your wife is not forced by law to see her OM. You have just taken the lazy way out because it is not important to you. In fact, isn't there contact now only because YOU sought child support? It is your "alternative" that Dr Harley mentions in his mission statement:

Sometimes you may hear alternative opinions that conflict with Dr. Harley's Ten Basic Concepts. These are often raised by those who have not solved their own marital problems, but still feel they are qualified to advise others. When this happens you can expect some members to explain why their approach won't work, and why Marriage Builders� offers a better solution. There are many who are offended when that happens, but please keep in mind that the ultimate purpose of this Forum is to discuss and learn Marriage Builders� concepts.

Melody, I'm curious how NC with the OM (for both the WW and OC) would be possible in a case like wanthealing's situation, where the OM is actively pursuing paternity and custody in court? If the OM wins his case, then she will be forced to allow him to be part of their OC's life. No, she doesn't have to be the one to interact with him, but he will still be part of OC's life, and it will be almost impossible for her to never talk about him or know anything about what's going on in his life, especially since her OC is very young. Some sharing of information and contact (even indirect) will almost certainly occur. It seems impossible to share custody of a very young child and know absolutely nothing about what's going on with the child while he/she is with the OM.

Of course its not impossible. There is absolutely no reason to ever contact an OP. There is no pertinent information about a child that can't be passed through an intermediary. People do it every day in Plan B over on the SAA forum. All it takes is willingness.

I know, I just don't think that I personally could send my toddler off with someone that wasn't allowed to contact me even in case of an emergency. I wouldn't send her off with anyone else that I couldn't even speak to. I just can't imagine a situation like that.

Just consider the alternative, which is a resumed affair and a broken marriage. Staying in touch with your former OM would be an untenable situation for your BS. That would be beyond cruel. That is what folks should be thinking about. Sure, its not easy, but much easier than a resumed affair or a divorce. If one only does what is easy they are likely in for a bitter, hard road. I sure don't want that for wanthealing or anyone else.

I wouldn't want that either, and I sincerely hope that wanthealing prevails in court and is able to keep the OM out of their lives completely.

I can't imagine anything making me want to resume my A. I would rather eat a diet of pond scum for the rest of my life than go back to that place.

That is why no contact is so essential after an affair. And if a WS doesn't recognize the risk, they are vulnerable to repeat affairs because they dont take appropriate steps to prevent them; they foolishly imagine they are immune.