"we're not getting a divorce" - Marriage Builders® Forums

H has been home a week. The adjustment has been difficult. I wasn't sure he was ready to come home, maybe I wasn't ready. I have an empty trust vault and the old lovebank isn't too healthy either. I don't want to walk on eggshells and there is soo much he did last year at this time to hurt me. Xmas parties he wouldn't take me to because "she" would/might be there. He's refusing to take me to the parties again. Same reason: he doesn't want to go. Except last year he said he didn't want to go, but "at the last moment" did go...without me.I'm trying to let go of the past, I know he can't change last year. But when he gives me the exact same lines--which of course he doesn't remember saying before--my anger just sizzles. Using as few LB as possible, I try to point out how/why I am getting so angry, now he feels like he's walking on eggshells. I know he won't walk them as long a time as I did.I struggle between forgiveness and yet protecting myself from this man, who I love, who has hurt me so many times. He swears he is telling me the truth, but he has sworn he was telling me the truth for a year an a half, many times when he was lying...looking just as earnest as he does now.It's like the story of the boy who cried wolf, when it was true, no one would believe him.There are moments I simply think this reconciliation is too late, but it is what I have yearned/worked for this whole time, so I think perhaps that feeling is just more fear. He is taking time to talk to me. Last night at a concert he pointed out another woman from his work (OW is a co-worker as well) & said she had emailed him when the scuttlebutt was heavy that he was getting a divorce. I asked where the rumor had started. He said that he had told many people we were divorcing (just not me, until Sept). So I turned to him & asked if we are. He said "we're not getting a divorce."You know what? This conversation, although not lighthearted, put a little bit of trust in the vault. He both told me about this woman's emails & that he was telling people our divorce was imminent.I want to go to the "big" Xmas party where all these people will be. I know I'm just wanting to "claim my territory". Is that so wrong?------------------ Lor "Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)

It's absolutely not wrong Lor. Tell him going would mean a LOT to you for just the reason you said.------------------ Prayers & God Bless! Chris For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Lor - I don't think it's wrong to want to go. I understand your reasons completely. But maybe time would be better spent making new memories with H that you both enjoy, than showing up the OW - since she seems to be moving on anyway. Why stir things up or rekindle the competition?Just something to think about. I am not saying you should let your H off the hook - he has a lot of making up to do to you. But can you think of some ways he can do that which don't involve her?Hugs, Starpony

Lor, I know what you're feeling. I hope things continue to improve. Like I said before, I think things may really be different this time. Keep up the good work.

Lor -Little things mean a lot. Glad that deposit hit the bank!To tell you the truth, I'd probably want to do the same thing. Not to cause trouble. But to face my/his OWN demons and get rid of them.Do what you feel is best. You've done awfully well so far.Lori

I think that it's a super positive that he used the exact words "we're not getting a divorce" (hopefully without hesitation). And, coming from my own situation, the opening up about what was said at the office and email is probably a major leap forward for him. Also, you accepted his sincere deposit into the Love Bank - that's also huge. I certainly agree that the "little things" mean an awful lot, yet these events strike me as major positive steps.

Congratulations, Lor! Remember, one day at at time. And, forgiveness is a decision, not a feeling.

Lor,Great that he took the time to reaffirm that you two are NOT getting a divorce. Know how hard the reconciliation is - especially true about walking on eggshells! I am praying so hard for you guys to make it THIS time! Let the past be in the past. Concentrate on the faith and trust you DO have in him. As he feels and sees more of that coming from you, he might well rise to the challenge and make that a self-fulfilling prophecy!Roll Me Away------------------ "Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."Sir Humphry Davy

Lor, I know just how you feel about hearing the words "we are not getting a divorce." A couple weeks ago, we were trying to decide what to watch on tv. There is a show my h. calls 'the divorce show'. As we clicked past it, he said, "Well since we are not getting a divorce, we don't need to watch that anymore." I yanked his chain a bit by saying " Oh, we aren't? I wasn't aware that we had decided that." He chased me into the kitchen to slap my butt. It is a relief to at least be able to acknowledge that we have considered the option instead of pretending that it is taboo.As far as the trust rebuildlng, you have been through the in and out of the house thing so many times. Be patient with yourself. Protecting your emotional well being just makes sense right now.As for the Christmas party thing I am right with you. I was excluded from many social events last year which my h. didn't mention until it was too late for me to attend. That way they could sneak little moments together. He still maintains that it is ok to touch other women at cocktail parties, put your arm around them, etc. He thinks I overreact when I learn of his overly friendly behavior with other women. This will certainly be a subject for further discussion at our therapist. He described me as needy and insecure. Well, duh. I wonder why I am insecure? Couldn't be that I have been lied to and cheated on repeatedly, could it?Don't know how you will handle it, but I bought a killer stretch velvet dress, short, black, extremely sexy. I intend to have a wonderful time at every social event we go to, starting this Wednesday night. I doubt if OW will show up at this professional organization party Weds.--(My h. is president and she knows I will be there), but I want her to hear through the grapevine how great I look and how in love we appear to be! I don't see why you can't promise to "Be good and not cause a scene" (that is the condition under which I have been invited by my h. to this season's parties) and tell your h. that you just want to have a nice time out with him.Keep me posted, I'll do the same.See you at the Bible study forum...LIZ------------------ "I have found the Pearl of Great Price"

Lor,Let's look at it this way:Do you want to go because you like all these people and really want to socialize with them?Do you want to go to have a good time with h?Does he like these people and enjoy being with them?Do you want to go to make a statement that you are not getting divorced?Do you want to go because she might be there and you can feel like the winner?Hey, you know me, I am not trying to antagonize you, I just want you to truly think about the reasons you want to go.If your reasons for going are solely to "claim your territory", I think you might spend more time watching for her and her reactions as well as his other coworkers.If you feel really strong about going then go but wouldn't it be much nicer to get dressed up and go out to dinner with your h and have the girls sleep over at a friends' house that night!Go to the big party next year or some other small parties this season where rumors will fly that you two are back together. I may be way off base and really don't know what I would do in your situation, but sit back and think about it. What are your true intentions, what are you trying to accomplish and remember most of all; you love your h and are trying to rebuild your relationship. Who cares what anyone else thinks. Those of us who survive this rollercoaster ride are stronger for doing it. We know that and don't need anyone else's opinion to back us up.Hoping

Yesterday, I thought about things and put on my wedding rings. He saw them at lunch.After work, he came home and said he wasn't sure he could work on our marriage. I had a meltdown. Just sobbed and sobbed. He hasn't changed, same old roller coaster. As we all know, this is a tough time of year for it. I know I told someone else whose spouse got their hopes up that except for that leap of hope, their situation was the same and to keep going with Plan A. My H brought me back from MY getting ready for divorce with all the promises of everything I want...now to back off, just when I'm barely getting my feet under me, this just feels cruel.Obviously the party question is moot for the moment. It may even be the reason he's doing this.Chris, Janie, Lori thanks for your support.Starpony, good advice. But ignoring her existence is a plan of action that hasn't worked in the past. She just keeps popping up--working together, you know.SamH, I thought it was positive too. Maybe the opening up scared him?Sidney, I know forgiveness is a choice. My counselor advises me to forgive my H daily because every day that my marriage is not what I want it to be brings new wounds. And the forgiveness is for me so that I do not become bitter, not necessarily for my H because at this time he doesn't seem to be able to accept my forgiveness.RMA, please keep praying. After the fifth separation (Jul-Aug) when I had discovered the affair hadn't really gone away in Jan I did really well in dropping the past, not mentioning her. It feels like all those issues just festered...which means I didn't do so well with forgiveness...I hate and feel malice toward the OW.POGP, I did promise to be good. He said that he'd be uncomfortable and I'd react to that and it would lead to a scene. I'm like you, I just want to walk in there looking fantastic so people will say "with a wife like that why did he want HER?" Your line about insecurity (being lied to and cheated on repeatedly) sounds very familiar to me.Hoping, you sound great! So strong. Good for you. He did skip the office party (another one where she would be) on Sun. The kids & I met him at a sports bar for lunch instead. I didn't mind missing that party so much, it's this other one that has been an issue between us for year, even before the affair. He's always wanted to go to it alone. As I said, for the moment, I'm dropping the whole issue of the party, it isn't until the 17th. God only knows what will have happened by then. I'm so tired of the turmoil. I went Xmas clothes shopping with my girls last night. We all came home with at least 4 items of clothing. I got shoes as well... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I normally hate to clothes shop, but it felt good...uh, oh, I'm becoming one of "those" women. I even bought my H a sweater--which he liked but caused major "you didn't have to do that".I forget how much he dislikes me being nice when he's just been...not-nice. ------------------ Lor "Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)

Lor,If I could smack your H around a bit, I would.What is he thinkin'?Did he go off the meds?------------------ Faith, Hope, Love Remain, but the greatest of these is Love. 1 Corinthians 13:13

I vote we put Lor up for Sainthood. You're a real gem & H is a loonie.------------------ Prayers & God Bless! Chris For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Yeah, I'll second the sainthood for Lor, send the men in the white coats for her H and maybe nominate you for sainthood as well, Chris. Oh, Oh...isn't there already a St. Christoper?------------------ Faith, Hope, Love Remain, but the greatest of these is Love. 1 Corinthians 13:13

Lor, Life really can be a rollercoaster. Sorry about your h about face. With the Christmas Party, maybe it would be better for you both to not go this year. If h would be uncomfortable, that would probably be a major withdrawal from the love bank. Just make sure you have plans for that night with him. Don't let him go alone. Think about why and how he went alone before. Is it because you were too busy with other stuff or because he truly did not invite you? Be honest with yourself about the answer. One question my counselor asked me was "What was I having an affair with that allowed my h the time and interest in having an affair?" He said usually there is something whether it be our kids, job, health, hobbies, etc. Not that this validates their bad choice mind you, there just is usually something. Hang in there. This is going to take a lot of time and effort on your part. Just keep doing what is right [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

CHRIS & FHL, Sainthood...lol [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

do I get a flowing robe and a shiny hat? Any input on the costume, CHRIS, since you deserve the nomination more than me? I'm quite certain saints don't swear like sailors as I'm prone to do when I've gone mad. But thanks you guys.Did I mention that all the clothing I bought for myself is black? Didn't even realize it until I took it out of the sack. Hmmm, what am I preparing for?DERBY, he began going to the party alone because he had an hour commute and I was working. After we moved to the same city, he truly didn't want me at the party for many years. I think in 12 years he's invited me twice, 2 & 3 years ago.One thing I did do before shopping. I took my H by the hand, brought out my POWER OF A PRAYING WIFE book and prayed the "his choices" prayer over him. The whole after-work discussion felt like an attack from the Enemy. I then took out my PRAYERS THAT AVAIL MUCH book, found the one against demonic influences and asked my H to pray that while we were gone.Perhaps that is what a saint (in the "believer" context of the word)does.Anyway, I'm still riled up.FHL, can't I get the men in the white coats? He's on his meds, but has "missed a few days". Eeek.

Lor,My H never wanted a divorce, but he did tell me several times he had ended it with OW, when he hadn't. I really thought he had ended it the end of Oct. 98--he took my face in his hands and looked me straight in the eyes and said he was having no more contact with her. Then a month later, on thanksgiving morning, he calls me to tell me she is coming down to stay with him for a few days. That's when I filed for divorce.This is just conjecture on my part, but sometimes I think the betrayer can't handle the guilt and that's why they can't commit 100% to working on the marriage. I think they may be afraid to look their demons straight in the eye. My H often said to me that I did not see the person, the monster, he saw when he looked in the mirror. Thank God he has a wonderful therapist now who is helping him through this.I feel for you--the limbo, the being pulled back & forth, is the worst part of this. Thank God my H did end the affair when he did because I was close to reaching my limit. I don't remember, are either or both of you in counseling?I don't know if you are ready to draw a line in the sand, but I think you need to tell your H what this limbo is doing to you and your daughters. Tell him that you need for him to try 100% and then if it doesn't work, you both can move on. It sounds like you need a qualified counselor to help you both through this mine field.I will keep you in my prayers--good luck.

Oh, Lor...I didn't make it to the end of all your replies, but I just had to ask whether your H and my H came from the same factory! Mine just informed me last night of Affair #5, which has been going on since before we started counseling with Dr. Harley; so your rollercoaster metaphor is not lost on me. I've lost count of the number of times he's felt "like trying again" or wanted "to stay."There's a lesson in all of this for us, Lor. I just haven't figured it out yet.------------------ "Some women wait for something to change and nothing does change so they change themselves." Audre Lorde

I'm also up for the sainthood vote. Still, the fat lady's not singing in your home just yet. I don't know how all this works, but I do know that it causes people to be uncharacteristically confused and irrational. He could be in that state, like being in a dream that reality hasn't quite succeeded in awakening him from just yet. Yes, its a scary proposition that some people awaken after it's much too late and all permanent damage has been done. But you're not there yet. Stay positive, have faith, and do what you know you must do. My wife also told me that she didn't know if she wanted to work on our marriage. Not because our marriage was bad for her, but because her feelings of wanting to "find out how green the grass is with others" was beginning to overwhelm her at age 32, not having had a chance to do that in her youth. Yet, she holds on to me dearly and hasn't stepped into those pastures. The point is that it's very likely the situation, and certainly not you. You must separate the two. Believe in you at all times.After all, you're now a Saint.SamH

Lor(Lor)Do you listen to Christian radio much?remember "We fall down, we get up, we fall down, we get up...and the saints are just the sinners who fall down.....and get up!"nominations are all in,I'd like to introduce...Saint Lor(Lor)!!!!liz\pogp------------------ "I have found the Pearl of Great Price"

If things settle down I vote for a very brief appearance at the party with an excuse for why you have to leave early - kid's event, another party, family get together, etc. I don't think either of you need to linger and feel uncomfortable , but the entrance and statement is needed. I agree with the earlier statement - I've lurked for months and you truely are remarkable.

Lor,Wow. It really seems that your husband is scared of any type of intimacy here. You show feelings, he pulls away. You pull back, he tries to get closer. It's a pattern for him it seems. But unfortunately, marriage cannot be game playing where one partner is always "elusive". Again, an issue that your husband really needs to seek help for. You've done so much to try to help him, what a wonderful person. He has to look back on this and realize this. Really, I am at a a loss tonight for what I've read.

Oh, Lor. I don't know what to say. The pattern seems to be repeating again. Now that you're no longer "hard to get", his interest is waning. Something is still not right here.You can't spend your entire married life being elusive with him. I'm wracking my brain trying to think of what you can do to break the pattern and get him past the hump. And I do think it's a past the hump issue. Once he gets a few weeks into this, the benefits should self-perpetuate the behavior (I really believe this).What insights do you have as to why he might be doing this? Before he had the affair, were there other times where he pulled back like this? If so, what got him past that? How have you "kissed and made up" in your past? Maybe there are some clues here on how to work with him differently.Someone else asked if he's still taking the medications. Is he doing anything regarding personal counseling?It's just so hard to get inside his mind.On the issue of the party, I'd be inclined to skip it altogether (both of you). My perception is this time period is like the first couple of weeks of dieting. You need to do whatever you have to to get past the really difficult part. Once you're there, it's much easier to continue on. Does that make sense? If not, I'm suggesting that the two of you avoid places/things that could trigger problems in his commitment until he gets solidly past the wavering.I'm so sorry about this Lor. I'll pray for the best.

Thank you all for your support. I'm at a loss, currently in a "do nothing" holding pattern until our counselling appt. tomorrow. Our counselor will advise the line in the sand 100% marriage or divorce--we've tried everything else. If H won't go...I think my head will blow up. (not really, just feeling a lot of grrrr.)Sherrilyn--He definitely feels guilt, he told me he hasn't felt worthy of me, but had decided he wanted to come home because he wanted our marriage and family. I don't know where that certainty disappeared to.Faithfully--if you figure out the lesson, let me know! (Unless it is developing patience and trust in the Lord...I've got that part)SamH--H knows I was beginning to move on. He knows the reconciliation was almost too late (my relationship with male friend was getting to the escalation point--but I wasn't allowing more than friendship). So, for H to pull away now...maybe it is a test? But I don't feel like being tested...after 20 months of this, I've already got the advanced degree diploma [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

.POGP--I don't listen much to Christian radio, I'm trying to keep abreast of my 14 year old's listening tastes. But I'm familiar with the Biblical "fall and get up again".Kate--your proposal is a good one, but he's refusing to go, and as long as he doesn't go without me, I COULD live with that.Connor & Distressed--you both addressed "the dance". My H & I are both aware of what we call the "cycle" or "death spiral", we spoke of it yesterday. At the moment I'm trying to dig in and neither confront or pursue him, despite the crying Mon.night. I certainly can't stop his dance away from me, but I can refuse to play the game. Thank you both for your kind words.Like my counselor told me last summer "Your life sucks, Lor." [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

(This from a Christian counselor who was a pastor for 9 years...) Even though true, it makes me laugh a bit, coming from him.------------------ Lor "Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)