MB Vets..Fog Talk or does WS really mean this???

Marriage Builders

Some of you know my story and know I am trying to get WS to leave my home. Well, we havent had much R talk the past few days, but something happened today that launched a hugh discussion. WS said a bunch of stuff to me today. I would like to hear the VETS take on this. So here it goes:

-There is no way to fix this marriage--should get a divorce.

-He has disappointed me in so many ways.

-He cant make me happy..theres just no way.

-Has done nothing than complicate my life and I would have been much better off if I never had met him.

-All he seems to do is hurt the people who love him.

-Has given this relationship everything he has and this is what it has gotten him...him stepping outside the marriage.

-Says his A is no reflection on ME...therefore I should not feel bad about myself and doesnt understand why I do.

-Told me I should not waste my breath, time and energy talking to him, because there is no way he will ever understand why I still want him and this M.

-Thinks people who stay together after an A are crazy.

-Told me if the roles were reversed and I was the one who strayed, there would be no way he would still be around.

And after he said all these things to me I asked him why 7 months after d-day are you still here and why havent you filed for Divorce.

His response-" I guess I am not willing to accept it or even think about it". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Okay let know what you guys think!!

Lisa

Lisa,

I think the man is committed to the life of a single man and has no intentions of honoring his committment to his family. This is a LIFESTYLE with him instead of an aberration of character.

I think you are fortunate in that he has made that very clear. At least he is not stringing you along by even pretending to be committed. And I think you understand that you can't possibly change him.

I would move to a REAL Plan B immediately, even if you have to file for legal seperation to get him removed from your house. It won't be easy, but the sooner you detach from him, the better.

Not a veteran (hope to be someday).
Those statements sound like he's remorseful about his actions, yet not remorseful enough to change (yet). He's trying to convince you to leave so he can start life anew. He doesn't want to work hard at M right now...thinks it will be too tough (just let him try living on his own, or trying a life with someone new). That's what Plan B is about...to let him see how EASY he had it with you...and that although recovery is hard work...it's harder to live alone, or start a new life.

He's living in a fantasy now...poor me...life is better without me, so don't throw me into the briar patch...if you get that analogy.

I agree with MelodyLane. My ex said all those things. The only difference is I asked him to move back in after I asked him to leave, and he never did move back in. But he was all over the fence and he said all those things. I think it is so they don't have to put any effort to keeping a commitment that would change their lifestyle. They want us around because we are safe and have taken care of them and loved them unconditionally, but they also want their own life (which is what they may call fun, but I call hell) where there is no responsibilty. To me that is a sad, pitiful way to live. I'm sorry Lisa, I don't know any words of comfort for you, except that you are very strong. I would get into Plan B and get him out ASAP though. I don't really regret my husband leaving when he did, because otherwise I don't know how long it would have dragged out.

I'm definately not a veteran, but how could you live with this man for 7 months after d-day and not go into plan B? You must be very strong. I know I couldn't be around my wife when she told me about her affair. She moved out 2 weeks after d-day. Your husband has the best of both worlds, don't let him continue to do this. He needs to go out on his own for awhile and feel what its like. I know you may be scared if he leaves he will be able to continue his affair. But it seems he's doing that anyway. This way, he can be with her at all times and 'really' get to know her. He may find out she's not all he expected. Affairs are based on lies and fantasies. The quicker the 2 are totally alone and get over the 'honeymoon' phase and real life responsibilities hit them, they usually decide the affair isn't what they wanted in the first place. Like I said, I'm no veteran, but being in plan B has helped me emotionally. I think it may be time for you to go into plan B....

Did he get a cake and candles for his little pity party?

I'm sorry, I am generally not a mean-spirited [censored] but I want to shake someone like this and scream "Stop your whining, take some responsibility and grow a spine you Hamster-man!!!"

My thought is that status quo ain't gonna work so one of two possibilities might.
1. Life with him
2. Life without him.

Ok, overly simplistic but I have a point - let's look at what he is whimpering here:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> -There is no way to fix this marriage--should get a divorce.
<hr /></blockquote>Fine, go get one but don't play this passive/aggressive bullsh!t with me hopin I will beg and plead with you to stay. Want out? Watch that door on the way out.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> -He has disappointed me in so many ways.
<hr /></blockquote>Yes, and most of all by handling this mess you made by sitting in the corner and whimpering rather than acting like the man I fell in love with and busting your tail to fix things.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> -He cant make me happy..theres just no way<hr /></blockquote>I thought we already covered the passive aggressive bullsh!t hamster man? NO WAY he can please you? Bulldinkies, give the saddest woman in town 3 hours, Nordstrom's shoe department and a Gold Card and you'll have to surgically remove the friggin smile from her face. This statement says "I am soooo good and try sooooo hard and you are such an evil b!tch that nothing will ever be good enough boohoohoooo. I know I am harsh on WS's, check my sig line - I am not a bitter BS. This kind of WS mindgaming manipulative puke annoys me. He is not a child. He needs to show some testicular fortitude and quit acting as though he is a freakin victim. Challenge him.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> -Has done nothing than complicate my life and I would have been much better off if I never had met him. <hr /></blockquote>Get down off the cross buddy, somebody may need the wood. Ok, we still haven't achieved burnthrough on the P/A stuff now have we?
How about "Gee honey that's true, I thought I was marrying a man of character who had determination, self-respect and integrity and would not sit around blaming the world when he made mistakes. Was I right to believe that you CANBE a great man or are you a pitiful, whimpering hamster? I deserve better than what you have been, I deserve what you can be - are you going to be that or is this the best you got?
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> -All he seems to do is hurt the people who love him.
<hr /></blockquote>Oh for the love of crud - I hope he is not crying this river in the hurricane path, flooding is bad enough already. More on this later.
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> -Has given this relationship everything he has and this is what it has gotten him...him stepping outside the marriage.
<hr /></blockquote>Boohoo, life is hard and sometimes you get knocked on your a$$, wear a cup next time and quit the manipulative guilting tactics - take responsibility for the fact that you, not the cruel world and not your wife and not even the OW were responsible for sticking your penis into another woman bubba, you did that. Own it, deal with it, make up for it but quit whining about it.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />-Says his A is no reflection on ME...therefore I should not feel bad about myself and doesnt understand why I do.
<hr /></blockquote>OK, credit where credit is due - right up until the ... he is talking sense. The second half? OK, let's clarify that one for him - "Imagine your friend Bill (or Bob or whomever) ...now picture Bob screwing my brains out while I scream in ecstasy... any questions dumbsh!t?"

Ok, ripping this guy a new a-hole was probably helpful since his head is lodged firmly in the original. Continuing will piss me off to a point where i am not helpful to you at all.

Bottom line - Your husband is trying to send you on a fun-filled all-expenses paid guilt trip. Remorse for what he has done? No, of course not, life is too hard as are you and thus he was forced into it. I hope I never sounded that pathetic but sadly, some of it was dead on the scumbag i used to be.

Suggestion? No coddling. Yes, dear, you are broken. Fix yourself, allow me to help you fix yourself and our marriage or quit threatening to divorce me and do it - meantime quit complaining and whining and decide, quickly, whether you are going to get up and reclaim your life and wife or if you would rather sit in the corner and cry - if door number one I'm in, if door number two? Get out.

His game is real simple - first blame you because nothing is good enough for you, then excuse his crap because he tried so hard and then try to convince you that he is the victim because his little feelings are hurt?

Sorry, bullsh!t. Sometimes seeing that their BS has had it with the excuses and is ready to kick your sorry tail out is a wakeup call. He needs counseling, if you are letting yourself feel sorry for him STOP!!!! Yes, you are responsible for 50% of the marital situation BEFORE the affair. The affair is HIS mistake.

Ahhhhhhh man, sorry, this just makes me nuts because it is one more lie, one more deception and one more example of selfish memememememe behavior from a WS who does not get it.

Let cooler heads advise you but 90% of the BS's who get a really good response from a WS do so right after putting their foot down and saying ENOUGH!

Beautifully said, 2 of a kind. I printed out a lot of your stuff when I first came here, since you were a WS especially. Lisa0705, he sounds like he has your husband's number. My ex was called "passive aggressive" by our counselor, and I also was made to feel guilty, like nothing he did would be good enough. Don't fall into that trap! Try to evaluate your situation like an outsider would (hard to do I know) and see if you would tell that person to stay in it or to get away for their own emotional sake!

Sorry for going 2 degrees short of ballistic on this one but if this guy got kicked in the [censored] he'd get a concussion. I put out a call on Recovery for a slightly gentler voice to opine.

Oddly, I have developed a reputation for being somewhat harsh on WS who think it is everyone else's fault. Maybe just because I can stand being called a [censored] easier than a victim. Yuck.

Lisa,

I think 2Oak pretty much got it right in his original post. It seems to me your two options for Gerbil-Boy are tough love or no love. In other words, it seems to me your best choice is to get going on Plan B and get him out of your house. Either he responds to that tough love approach by performing one of those rectal-cranial extractions or you get on with your life.

Now, how you do get him out I don't know, but I'm sure someone her can help you with that if you decide that's the course you want to take.

Lisa,
Let me first say I really feel for where you are as I had a WS with the same personality (or lack thereof) It is so much easier for them to be the "down trodden" "the whoa is me" and to turn YOUR, Pain, Frustration, Dispair, Hurt....etc....to make it all about him!! I bet if you think back on your time with him, he did this alot on all levels of your relationship. It's so easy to say "I can't make you happy"....well of course he can't, he has no inititive nor is he willing to try. So with every passive little victimhood retort he throws at you he soothes himself, making it his reality to believe the crap he is slinging at you.

It may get better after he falls on his butt, delves deep inside after he is hit bottom and rethinks some things about himself as he stares into a mirror and takes off his delusional glasses. It's not about you at all Lisa, it's about his lack of responsiblity to himself as a man first!!! Then as a husband and father. It has to start with him really seeing himself in other roles than a victim of his immaturity. Can he do it?? Sure...anyone can if they WANT AND CHOOSE TO!! That's the great thing about us humans we can change and adapt to about anything. Until he realizes that his failures are about him he can't let go of "riding on the melodrama" he creates in his mind. I know it sounds like I am being harsh and I am not. I really do sympathize and feel for you because it's difficult dealing with someone like him especially when it's your heart involved and the vulnerability you feel. Please know that I have gone through a similar experience as some who know me on this board can testify to. I just have not been on here for a long time and so I felt compelled to write to you after reading your thread, also 2OAK needed to calm down because I saw his veins popping like the HULK and I was getting a little worried he might get toooo angry...(lol, just teasin 2)

My best wishes and thoughts and I will check back to see how it is going. While I don't know all your history, I did read this thread and I thought I wrote almost a year ago.

Neesha

Lisa,

I am more interested what was your answer to him & his reactions ... WS usually tries to gauge how far they could go if they are cake eater or to get assurance from BS if they still not sure yet.

I really gun shy to sugest someone to go plan B w/o all the detail ... one should always get M coaching to decide and doing plan B.

-rh-

I don't know your story, so there may be a ggod reason, but why wait for him to leave. If you are trying to get him out of the house...well, you leave if he won't.

The other stuff doesn't sound so much like fog as it does a guy that has found what works for him...befuddling the conversation till you lose patience and leave the room. I noticed he didn't make anything "firm" with his comments, but left it open. Sounds like a pro.

I would also like to know YOUR responses.
T

Touche, 2oak!

Thanks everyone for you post and candid thoughts. Maybe I can answer some of your questions.

-2oak: you have echoed my frustration with WH to a tee. This is not the man I was first attracted to and then fell in love with and married. WH was the complete opposite. All those qualities that he should be showing now were the very same qualities that I was attracted to. I dont think you know anything about my WH. Real quick, I am 37 and WH is 28..we are a blended family and have 5 kids all together. My D-13, His D-10, S-6, our two together S-3, D-2. We have our own business, that we started together. WH has not had an easy life..(no excuse and he will never use it), was emancipated by the state of PA at the age of 16. Parents basically kicked him out. Went to volitile (sp) relationship that produced his two kids at a very young age, as you can see. Then meets me. For the past 6 1/2 years we have spent building a life for us and our 5 children. We have been fighting for custody of his 2 kids for 4 years, and finally made some progress on that front this past year. WH cant say to me that this relationship was terrible from the beginning, actually he says the opposite. Boom last fall comes...starts sleeping with OW and our business vitually collapses at our feet. Fast forward..I guess from my post you can see where we are at with the situation. FYI 2oak..WH has been in counseling since aboout 2 weeks after D-Day (Feb 14, 2003). Also we are on the verge of losing everything...house, 2 vehicles, business. What more can I say.

Redhat and Twyla:

Here are some of my responses and his reactions to what WH said to me.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> <hr /></blockquote>-There is no way to fix this marriage--should get a divorce.

-I said then if thats how you really feel then you need to leave now and I will wait to be served with D papers.

WH Response-Is that how you really want to handle this? DUUUUUUUHHHHHHHH!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> <hr /></blockquote>-He has disappointed me in so many ways.

My Response-Have I ever once said to you that you have disappointed me. WH Response-Yeah you just did about not being the kind of father our kids need. My Response-I was talking about the example you are setting for these children at such a crucial age.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> <hr /></blockquote>-He cant make me happy..theres just no way

My response-Well you can start by stop seeing your girlfriends and commit to me, our family and this M. WH-No response

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> <hr /></blockquote>-Has done nothing than complicate my life and I would have been much better off if I never had met him.

My response-how have you done this. WH response-just have..thats the way I see it.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> <hr /></blockquote>-All he seems to do is hurt the people who love him.

My response-If that is how you truly feel..lets break that cycle right now and figure out why you do this together. WH-Its me..how are you gonna help??

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> <hr /></blockquote>-Told me I should not waste my breath, time and energy talking to him, because there is no way he will ever understand why I still want him and this M.

-Thinks people who stay together after an A are crazy.

-Told me if the roles were reversed and I was the one who strayed, there would be no way he would still be around.

My response-I tell you how feel because this is how I feel. I am not willing to lose my M and H.
WH-Why would you even want me..look at me.
My response to if roles were reversed-Well I guess that is where we are totally different on our thinking. WH-Yeah we are and therefore I will never understan why you still want this.

These were the responses in a nutshell..obviously we talk about each statement alot..but this is the jist or the resolution of the statement.

By the way WH is still living and doesnt seem like hes doing to much to leave..even though he is the one to say all those statements.

Thanks guys and more thoughts please post.

Lisa

OOOPS did my quotes wrong..hopen not to confusing..maybe you can tell me how.

Lisa

Lisa,

You did good, you leave him an impression that you still want your M and H but no room for OW.

Now, in your oppinion is OW ready to take WH ?.

-rh-

So unless I am tottaly off here , It sounds to me (JMO) that he wants YOU to do all this for him .

He either wants you to file for D.
Wants you to leave him .
OR he wants you to sit there and be roommates .

Well I will go ahead and post even though most will not agree .

I can relate to the WON"T GET OUT THING !

And I can relate to the fact that you can't leave kids,money , ect.

So here my 2 cents throw him out .Now thats a LB I know but hey he wants YOU to do something , being that he is playing the I AM SO PATHETIC ROLE !

OR You can live with him there and go about life as he don't exsist .

OR you can piss him off and invite all OW involved to the house for tea and wait for him to come home so you all can chat about the best way to help POOR HIM .

OK maybe #3 is a bit much . LOL

Lisa having him there will only kill off any chance you have to recover yourself or your M .

JMVHO , he wants the blame to fall on you , he is copping out . Figures if he says all this you will get pissed and do it all for him .

He is a coward and does not want to fix any mess on his own .
If he gets you to through him out and file then he didn't have to make desion .IF you don't and he tells you all these feelings and stays well he doesn't have to commit to OW .

HE basicly does not want to $HIT and get off the pot!

I think he is confused , LITTLE BOY , BIG MESS .
AND he did that all on his own .

ALL here says PLAN B , I know how do ya get him out ? WELL if he won't leave willingly and you
throw him out .

I remeber your story from an earlier post now.
Business dying and losing everything does not surprise me a teentsy bit. When you throw out the rules in one area of your life do you follow the rules elsewhere?? not bloody likely.

I destroyed a LOT of things during my affair and it will take me years to get recoup losses in some areas... but focusing on my relationship with my BS first got the rest on track.

Don't know what to tell ya Lisa... it sounds like you have gotten the same advice on this for a while and know that the current situation is not acceptable to you.

Are you really asking whether it is time to cut your losses and let him go? If so, tough call - losing the man he is right now would be like losing 10 pounds, losing the possibility of the man you believe he can be is big.

But here's the thing - you can beg, plead, scream and hold your breath until he changes but until he really feels the fire at his feet he is going to mope and play these woe is me games...

If you feel like more counseling or SOMETHING you have not tried can work at home (think, not hope!) then by all means try it. If not? Well you are not going to live this way forever so if he says he wants out etcetera then I think you might have to call his bluff and make plans for a life without him - and tell him so. He can join you or he can drown by himself.

We all want to save our loved ones but there is a cardinal rule that every lifeguard learns day 1 - DON'T DROWN TRYING TO SAVE SOMEONE!

Redhat,

Thanks I thought my answers were steadfast with everything I have been saying since D-Day.

Is OW ready to have him?? Well WH has always told me he will not go running to her. It is not a choice between me and her, never has been nerver will be. But is unwilling to end the R. I asked him why he still talks to her and sees her..WH said I really dont know. OW called me a few weeks ago and told me she could very easily have WH come live with her, but she thinks he needs to be on his own for awhile. Any Red, I think this fantasy is becoming to real for WH because now he is talking to OW2. Even though he will deny it until the day he dies. I know for sure. Would love to call OW1 and let her know this is still going on. See she knew too, and I am sure WH lied his way out of that also.

3,

I agree with you 100%..you see even before A, WH would just come up to me and hug me and say why are you with me? You know I will never leave..you will have to be the one to leave me and someday you will.

As far as throwing him out..the one thing I definitely know about my H..is if I do that he will never come back. This goes back to his parents throwing him out and his relationship prior to ours. He has always expressed that to me since the day I met him. This scares me to death.

2oak,

Yes everybody has given me the same advice and no this situation is not acceptable. The past few weeks I have made some taken some steps to prepare myself for a life without him. I have been looking for a full time job and have another interview tom...have been home with the kids. Everything is in my name only..including our business. Told WH yesterday..I have made an appt. with my accountant to review my options her. i.e. Business, re-fi house, claiming bankruptcy..all of which WH name is NOT attached to. Also told him I was willing able and ready to do whatever I need to to protect my children and that includes filing for sole custody..the day we split. There is no way my kids are going to be around OW1 who is an exotic dancer!!

You are right I do feel as though I am drowning right along with him and I cant let that happen..I have children to care for. Thanks for your candor..hope to continue to hear from you.

Thanks Lisa

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lisa0705:
Red, I think this fantasy is becoming to real for WH because now he is talking to OW2. <hr /></blockquote>Get all the logistic of plan B in the line ... draft plan B letter and ready to hand it to him.

When you are ready ... put his belonging in the front porch ! w/ that plan B letter. You need to push him to get a taste of reality. Staying would just drained you up and make you prone to LB.

-rh-

Lisa,

BIGAMY!

You must be married to my WH! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Same words...verbatim...every single one of them.

I am closer, every single day, to taking charge of the situation and moving on. Let him wallow in his indecisiveness. I have to have a life that extends beyond the sitting here and wondering and waiting.

*S*

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lisa0705:
i feel as though I am drowning right along with him and I cant let that happen..I have children to care for. <hr /></blockquote>Lisa,

This was the final line you wrote that struck deep within me......

My XH sounded just like YOURS!! Our whole M!!! I heard all the same CLAP-TRAP....."I can't make you happy....." "I'm no good.....", "I should just go away, and let you have a real life....", "why do you stay with me....." blah, blah, blah..........

He is extremely passive-aggressive, and (I coined this one myself) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> "Afraid of his own success...." IOW, my X always somehow managed to F*%K up his (and MY!!) life just when things seemed to be getting back on an even keel after the last trainwreck he caused.....

So, at some level, I went into "survival mode" just to be sure I'd never go down with the ship whenever things got really bad.

I'm sorry, I wish I could give you some uplifting news, but I really don't know if there IS any!! Well, actually, there IS good news.....it's that your WH, (and mine) is extremely passive-agressive, and THAT's what all that "conversation" is about........and that you already know you are going to have to be the strong one..........he isn't able......

Will he ever pull his cranium out of his rectal cavity? I can't answer that. Counseling can help, I think, but he's got to want to

And you are not in control of that......

YOu will be in my prayers. I totally understand.

God Bless,

Lisa...

I know hon, you are saying "The answer is really obvious to me but could y'all remind me a few more times sinse I am scared senseless????"

Proud of you, you know that the children who are NOT in their 30s come first before anything else. FWIW, I wasn't sure what to do when XW took off and left me holding the bag and the baby... we did pretty darned well. Kids are a miracle, you just can't lose hope and determination when the bunchkin or your lap is poking you in the nose, drooling on you and gurgling with delight.

The 30-something child was drowning when he started cheating - throw in the money and a big old shark is in the water with you guys...

Silver lining? Second rule of lifesaving - you don't need to swim faster than the shark, just your husband.

Hang in there and we'll keep reminding you of what you already figured out until you convince yourself the other 1% :-)

2.

Lisa , I don't know how to do the QUOTE thing , BUT you said, in reponse to me that
"YOU know if you throw him out he will never come back cause of the issue with his parents doing it to him "

I will go with you on that , I can understand that no one here can say your wrong in that belief you do know this BOY the best (sorry about the BOY thing LOL)
AND I know that feeling I to could not through FWS out the second time he would have not come back I know that .

SO then the the QUESTION is are you strong enough to have your WS as a roommate ???

OR now heres a big chance , Tell him what you said, here .

SOMETHING like one last normal convo to tell him you love him and make it stick .

" H this has gone on for some time and I am at a lose for words , I love you and I know you are insecure and confused . We are not getting any where like this , I really want for you to leave , because there has come a time where each person needs to grow up and find there own way .
I feel if I throw you out you will never find your way back cause of the issuses you still hold on to from your parents doing the same thing to you . BUT I want you to know it is different I am not doing it to you you are doing it to yourself and to me & our children .

I want you , love you , and would work with you on our M and another probblems you have , but not in this manner its not healthy for me or my children . So with that said, I would like for you to be gone in (what ever 1, 2 WEEKS ) AND know that you are an adult and have to choose your own path , either to start your life without me or choose to seek help together . BUT you will not guilt me into beliving that YOU can't or don't know HOW or that any of this falls on me ."

Just throughing a thought at you , I know he doesn't hear much but its not for him its for you ,As strong as you are I am sorry to tell ya its not gonna be easy being ROOMMATES .

IF you are putting all ducks in a row then great , after they are you have to mean business with him . DON'T say it unless you mean it . Then you must follow through on it .

MY thoughts are with you , stay healthy and strong .

P.S. Do not include him in your plans with house , money , job ect.

LET him know when all of it is done .
YOU can't control him , this is now and will always be his to deal with and for him to STEP UP TO THE PLATE!

3, I love your ideas. You know how to put it in words...

Just some ideas I had to throw atchya, hope you can use some.

1. Start selling some stuff, ebay is a great place. Some of the stuff his? Then say "You know we're in dire straits and I thought selling off some of our stuff would help pay off some of our debts and enable our children to live a little normally. I'm sure you won't mind if I sell ........ because it will be going to the good of the family."

2. Start boxing up some of his not essential stuff. Tell him, "I just want to help you out when you leave, thought I'd help by boxing up some things you don't use very often." It can feel REALLY good to start this process.

3. Keep your feelers out for someone looking for a roommate.

4. Everything you say and do, do in love. It's easy to let the fear consume you. Be logical, loving, and plain...no sarcasm, bitterness (do that here), or crying (at least not much).

5. Begin making plans without him. It's very difficult because for many years you have taken his needs into account. It's time to look at the needs of the family minus HIM. No more checking up on each other...no letting him know where you'll be.

6. No buying foods for him, or fixing dinner for him...eat at a different time.

7. Schedule time (visitation) for him to be with kids. Outside of visitation times...he's not allowed to be with them or take them anywhere.

It seems like this is a way to get used to the eminent D, but that's not what this is at all (although it can help). Or that this is a way to live like roommates. I would only keep this up for a short time...all the while talking about his eventual move. What this is, is a way for him to see the cold harsh realities of the mechanics of a D early...

A wise woman told me that many people who D regret it later and want to go back but feel it's too late (especially if they or their ex-partner have remarried). I think about this quite a bit and that's why I'm one of the first to say "Go to Plan B", because this gives the S the opportunity to have regrets before a D happens. This is what I hope for you. Maybe some reality will turn your H's heart. I think it's VERY likely!

3 and Still,

Thanks for the great post. 3, I think I am going to use what you said almost word for word. It is perfect. I am starting to draft my Plan B letter, which really has been in the works since May.

On the home front-Things have been very calm. WH mood the past couple of days has been good. Strangely enought, his cell phone got turned off on Fri. Cant talk to OW constantly on the phone. (Believe me I know he still talking, but without his cell it is much more difficult because he is on the road so much). Also he has been home earlier than usual. I have been just pleasant, neither too high nor too low. Also today he showed so much motivation about work and ideas that should help us financially for the next year. This I have not seen in months. But once again I hate when he talks about the future, like it pre A and everything is just fine. One more thing about our big discussion on Sunday.

-In the middle of all this conversation I said to WH "someday you will realize what you have right here."

WH response-"I know what I have, I have the strongest person I have ever meant in my life and I have a wonderful mother for my kids and a wonderful person."

Any thoughts on this one???

I had a job interview for Assistant Manager position. I made it to the second interview. Pay and benefits are exactly where I want to be. BUT THE BIG BUT..the hours are going to be tough with the two youngest guys. See, my feeling here is that I want to be able to do this on my own. If I cant secure proper babysitting for these guys I am not going to do it. I do not want WH involved with this at all. I know I may get flamed for this but this is how I firmly feel and believe me this is part of MY recovery, knowing I can do this by myself. WH is under the impression he is going to be here to help with the kids. Well I have news for him..This way he will never be in the position to not make me happy or dissappoint again. (only in his eyes).

Boy, I think he is going to regret those words real soon. Please let me know if I am moving into B!TCH MODE to quickly here. I dont think so...I think I am finally getting a plan. Like I said in another post..I have an appt. with my accountant on Friday. WH asked me why..I said I need to take care of a few financial things. I think he is starting to notice some movement on my part.

Once again any thoughts...would love to hear from you guys..and as always thank you so much

Lisa, this is good , PLEASE stay motivated !

You need to treat him as if he is not there , continue this and stay the corse until you get eveything into line for you and your kids .

I don't mean be nasty , just no convo unless he starts and if its R talk walk away , suddenly remmber you have something to do or a call to return . NO R TALK , he will be in this mood for a day or two then he drags you back in to HIS DEPRESSION . DO NOT TAKE THE BAIT ANYMORE !!!!!!

Got to go as always here for you , be well .

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{just an innocent bump}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Lisa -

I guess my advice would be to let WH have his pity party. You need to devote your energy to two other things that are pretty darned important:

- Saving your family and
- Saving your family.

Yes, they're different, because there are two huge things that go into it:

- Finances
- Emotional support.

Your finances are in the doghouse. Sounds like H ain't gonna help much to get that fixed. You've got five (!) kids in a blended (!) family, and you're going to lose everything? Focus, girl! This ain't about him anymore. Put him and all your feelings about him aside and get focused on getting yourself and all five kids safe and secure. Deal with him later.

Your emotions are in the doghouse. Sounds liek H ain't gonna help much to get that fixed. You've got... Yes, I'm repeating myself, and it's exactly the same message. Figure out what you need to do to get your kids and yourself safe and secure. Deal with him later.

You do not have the time right now!

From my point of view, this is really pretty simple. Life is falling apart around your ears and he's not holding up his end of the building. So look at it from a purely rational point of view: What can YOU do to make sure that YOU and the kids are okay even though things are falling apart? Can you just walk away from the debt and the fallen-apart finances? What happens if you take the kids and move in with your parents? Do you have a job outside of the business? Can you get one?

Sounds like you've got a whole lot of work to do, and spending your energy on WH's pity parties (I agree with 2Oak there, even if I wouldn't be quite so harsh about it) is just not productive.

You go girl! Knock 'em dead.

Need an update thinking of YOU , I hope that when you don't check in that it means you are busy planning YOUR life !!!

How did interview go ?? Wasn't it the othere day or did I miss it in the post ??

Any how try and post I will pop in later or tomorrow .

Hey Everyone,

Well I had my appt today with my accountant. He pretty much said what I thought he was going to. Gave some ideas about the business, his thoughts on re-fi the house to save it and told me not to file personal bankruptcy..amount of debt way to low. Well at least I know now what I am planning is on the right course. I have many more phone calls to make. Feeling pretty good. Oddly enough WH has been responding to that. He seems to be trying to focus on what has to be done here. ( financially speaking). Maybe its because he is seeing movement on my part??? Any thoughts on that???

I also got my call for my 2nd interveiw for my Asst. Manager job..need to set that up. I think getting out of the house and earning some money would be the best thing for me right now. I know it will help my self-esteem so very much.

I have heard some messages from OW to WH on his cell voice mail, and it sounds as though she has not been happy lately at all. Poor baby. So what do I do, I am HAPPY and focused and I think it may be scaring WH. Anyway talk to guys later..jump in here anytime and let me know your thoughts.

Luv Ya

Lisa

WAY to GO GO GO GIRL , WHAT do ya do ? Well do , go get that job and make those calls , just keep on doing DOIN DOING FOR WHO ???? YOU!!!!!!!!!

Scared well you ain't seen nothing yet , he will $HIT himself , while wataching his life pass him by , if he don't jump on its his problem .

OW not sounding so good , POOR BABY thats an understatement ,,,,,, WHO GIVES A CRAP is more like it .

NOT your concern , don't you dare start going down the road of obsessing with them .

ok I am done .

3isa,

Thanks for taking time to check on me...yes I am GOING...GOING...GOING. Getting those ducks in a row. One piece of advice my accountant gave me(he is also my cousin) was "if you can start to get straightened out financially and feel as though you have a plan to get your business back to where it was, I bet the personal stuff may start to be resolved one way or another." I fully agree with this, at least the financial strain and stress would be lessened.

Oh believe me I am not obessing about them at all, all I am doing is using what I know to my advantage. P.S. Since our Sunday blow-up and my attitude of late..WH is been trying to be all over me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Playing a little hard to get. Having fun with it also.

3, Ihave been reading your thread and am sorry you feel this way. I havent replied because I have no idea what it would be like to be in recovery. Just knowing I am think of you and praying for you.

Lisa

Thank you for the prayers , I do hope all will pass .JUST as I do for you .

Your accountant /cousin is right with a PLAN things do go smoother.

All this helps in so many ways , first it is something for you to take charge with .(CONTROL) and its nice to be able to be in control of something . ( can't control ws)

Also some men (we talked about this already ) need someone to take control of something in there world to put them on track give them something to look at as positive .

I know your doing this for you and your kids protecting yourself and them .

But cousin wasn't off in that statement , he in JMVHO will start to see things can work out with alittle effort and work .

This may be the things to snap him out of the FOG he is in little by little . You are to busy for him and his problems he will want in to your world .

Hes all over you , NO NO NO do not bite , he wants to eat some more cake NO GOOD!!!

I know its hard belive me , but no contact then he can have a taste . LOL

Hey --

Sounds like you're already way ahead of me. I'm glad to hear it! The accountant and the job stuff is perfect, and yes, that energy in the air, as Cerri says, is sometimes enough to clear the fog. Not often, but sometimes. You just keep right on going, girl!

Ok where are ya, don't you think that we need an update . whats up ?? how did second interview go ? Have you had it ? When are you scheduling it ?

SEE if you don't check in then I will go question crazy LOL

Hope all is well , thinking of you .

Hey 3,

I am still here, my 2nd interview is on Friday morning. Feeling good about it even though hrs will be difficult with the little ones, but I dont have a choice right now.

On the home front, I have been a raving maniac again and WH said to me the other day "I think I may have pushed you over the edge." I basically told him this can not continue and I am ready to "let go". WH in his not so loving way right now, said he was angry and upset because I feel this way, I told him to come and reclaim his life and wife or I am done. His says he "loves me dearly" but doesnt know what to do. I told him to please just leave me and file for divorce. WH says "he has no plans to leave me." He also said "I am right now doing alot of soul-searching and thinking about my whole life up to this point, and what I want. It does upset me greatly that I am going to lose you." He did admit to me the other day he feels as though he "knows nothing about what a relationship is suppose to be like and maybe his ideas of a marriage are just plain wrong." "I have alot to learn." I am trying to be calm and listen to him but it is very hard. I know he needs me to be his friend right now but I cant, because I guess I just want my HUSBAND back right now.

About throwing him out..well right now with our financial situation..I will surely then lose everything. I know this is wrong, but I have the kids to think about. In all honestly he really isnt even home that much and I guess right now that is okay with me. WH has court on Tues. for Child support and we are sure he is going to jail, we just dont have it and his ex has already stated she is telling the judge she wants it all in a lump sum payment or his goes to jail. And we are so far behind I know the judge will throw him in jail. So I guess I have to start running our Lunch Truck during the day. Right now, I feel as though WH is very close to hitting rock bottom. Any thoughts.

Lisa

My thoughts well I am thinking while I am reading ,HHHHHMMMMMMMM sounds like he has said this already .
Remeber way back I said you its scraming yelling , then you back off , then he gets confused , then it gets to you again and he is sweet saying things then wait he will start the attitude again .

ONE BIG FENCING CAKE EATING CIRCLE!

I hate even using cakeeater , I know that word when people use to say it to me made me feel ashamed of myself .

I do truely understand the financel mess and him not leaving . BUT I am telling this living with the contact is not healthy . (first hand )

SEE you go through stages you where on a high , motivated this was a good thing , but him being there will always get your goat . Its hard to be around someone you love and they are not them self .

Thats what PLAN B is I know you know that .

With not talking or seing him it allows you to keep your life moving . Him in your face is a reminder all the time .

I don't have the right answer the words to tell you .

Sound like a broken record but it was said, to me if you are going to live with it in your face then you have to ignore ignore ignore and live your life .

So with that said, take care of yourself and rember only thing you can do is for you . You will know when you want to let go .