One Thing You Should Not Do: Tell the Kids About Other Person

Marriage Builders

If you harbor any hope whatsoever of saving your marriage--and even if you don't have hope at this point--you should not tell your little ones about what's going on. The simple explanation of: "Dad and I aren't getting along these days and we need to spend some time apart to think about it" is sufficient enough for a young child. Don't feel that you are hiding info from your kids or not "being honest" with them (you are being honest.) Even if you are living apart and explanations need to be given about the break-up, you should leave the Other Person out of the picture.

Granted, there may come a point where your Wayward Spouse may introduce the kids to his/her new "sweetheart." There is not much you can do about it in this case--but it's out of your hands then. You should not be the one to tell your children that the reason for the break-up is because "dad ran off with so-and-so."
Children are too precious--childhood is too short--for little kids to deal with these issues. This is for adults only to worry about. Infidelity is a subject that little children should not be introduced to.

Besides that, you should never ever vilify your wayward spouse to his/her children, no matter what course the affair takes, even if you eventually divorce. Children always need two parents, irregardless of whether those two parents live together. When you create out a monster out of the other parent, the child has lost a part of that parent that can hardly be replaced. He will think "If dad can hate mom, then what will he do to me?"

During this terrible time in your life, it is easy to feel sorry for yourself and recite your "poor me" story to anyone who will listen (I sure did--I regret that too. Some things your need to speak of only in proper company.) It so easy to rely on your children as companions and friends, when it seem that you have no friends in the world. Don't do it. Your children are not your friends. They are your responsibilty--and your biggest duty is to protect them.

I have been through hell and back with my husband, and we are still together. That is almost literal--my husband turned into the devil and took a very long time to shed his horns, scales and tail and get rid of his pitchfork. It has been about five years since his affair, and we are doing better all the time. Our recovery has been very hard-won: he has expressed little apology other than being caught red-handed, ever, and this is something that I have had a painful time dealing with.

One thing that I do regret very much is that I told the children about his dad's girlfriend--under guise of being "honest," but secretly out of spite. She had been petitioning him to abandon me for her on the grounds that she would make an excellent stepmother to our son, that she would love my child as her own if only his father would marry her. (My husband did confess to me that, despite his verbal pledges to her that he was considering this, he never had any intention of ever marrying this woman, good stepmother or no.)

In the throes of hatred towards them both, I outright told my then five-year-old son that "dad has a girlfriend" and that "he wants to live with her now and not mommy." There were no tears or questions from my son (children that young tend to be only accepting of their world--good or bad--rather than try to make sense of it.) I told my teenage daughters from my first marriage that their stepdad left me for someone else--I didn't elaborate in either case, but that still didn't make it right. What I was doing was giving power to that woman's evil schemes at the cost of my children's mental health. That was entirely selfish of me.

The day came that my husband called home and my son asked him: "when am I going to meet my new mommy?" (of course I didn't tell the child to say that, he worked that out on his own, but I was secretly pleased that I could put a check on my scorecard.) But my husband became so enraged that I could scarely squeeze a word into our subsequent dialogue. At first I felt had gotten a whip-hand over my husband. After all, wasn't it just that if the nasty woman meant so much to him that he would abandon us for her, why shouldn't the kids know the truth?

Now, five years later, my daughters, being old enough to understand, will never accept my husband again, the way they did. They begged me not to go back to him. My son, while he loves his father very much, does not respect him the way that he should. He turns to me for having his real needs met--his father plays Playstation with him and drives him places. He's a playbuddy. When my husband tries to assert authority over my son, the little guy is often disrespectful to his father. He is only nine years old now--I am ashamed to consider what he will think when he is a teenager, or a young man. Will he think that all men do this to women? That marriage is terrible and not worth the trouble? Will he think that I was an awful woman that his father left me?

My son and I both take TaeKwonDo lessons, one day and we were talking about various forms of martial arts. I discribed one form of martial art that is so deadly that a person only uses these moves to kill other people. My son said "I want to learn that." I said "Why would you want to learn it?" He said "So I can beat up dad's girlfriend. Don't you want to?" I said "Why would you want to hurt her?" He said "Because she made my dad cheat." I told my son that it was not entirely her fault, that dad made a mistake, too. I guess, after five years, he still harbors a lot of resentment, and at an age where most boys think their fathers are all-powerful heros, my son knows that his father's faults.

My advice to you: Be very careful about what you say to your children. Be strong and don't let the poison of what's happened to you carry over to your behavior towards your kids. Like I said, childhood is short, and children are precious. This world can be ugly--protect your kids from becoming adults before their time.

Very good advice. Thank you for sharing.

Thinking back, the moment I understood about my F's 'girlfriend(s)' and the reason for my parent's divorce was the moment my realationship with my father ended...it was the moment my views on men changed...it was the moment I learned that men can not be trusted...after all, the only man in my life had just deserted me, my sisters and my mother for another woman. We lived in poverty and wanted for everything...including love from a broken woman (our mother). My father's infidelity shattered my world at the ripe old age of 6...

LF--I'm sorry about what you went through. So you see what I mean. I am really sorry about what I put my kids through when I was hurting and I know you know what I am talking about, from your story. So if I can save some one else from doing the same thing. . .

Bernzini - I am by far no expert on these boards so I hesitate to give advice...maybe someone else would be able to help you more but I wonder if it isn't too late to 'fix this'. My children are young (all under 5) so they are clueless about what is going on (fortunately...and my H never left) but since your children are older and understand, to some degree, what happened perhaps you should talk with them.

Your daughters need to understand that not all men are bad (since you said he is their step F I assume a prior divorce...2 men they should have been able to trust who have 'let them down') and your son (whose strongest influence on who he will become is his F) needs to be able to have a F who is more than a 'playmate'.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I didn't elaborate in either case <hr /></blockquote>..and I'm not sure you should have...with specifics anyway...but now you've got kids who are 'filling in the blanks' with their limited life experiences...that's what I did...I drew my own conclusions since no one ever tried to explain anything to me...left me with a world of pain...a world of questions...a world of self doubt...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I guess, after five years, he still harbors a lot of resentment, and at an age where most boys think their fathers are all-powerful heros, my son knows that his father's faults.
<hr /></blockquote>...a perfect place to start, I'd think...it's okay that your son knows his father has faults...we all do...it's what he does with that knowledge...how you guide him with that knowledge...if he can learn to believe that his father has faults but learns from his mistakes...becomes a better man from his mistakes...than won't this be a valuable lesson learned?

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Children always need two parents, irregardless of whether those two parents live together. When you create out a monster out of the other parent, the child has lost a part of that parent that can hardly be replaced. He will think "If dad can hate mom, then what will he do to me?"
<hr /></blockquote>EXACTLY! That's exactly what they're thinking...and that needs to be fixed. Don't let your children grow into adults thinking the most important man in their lives is a monster...you are their role model and if you're living with...accepting...sharing your life with...a monster they will learn to think that they should do the same.

Again, I am no expert on giving advice. I'm in early recovery and still learning A LOT...with a lot left to learn, I'm sure. I write these words as a child of divorce...as a child of parents whose marriage ended because of an A (or 2 or 3...who knows?)...as a woman who has, for my entire life, carried a burden that was not mine to carry...I brought it into every relationship I've had (from friendships, to family, to men)...my 'baggage' that 'I never leave home without'. Release your children into the world without that baggage if you can.

Best of luck to you.

Let me preface this by saying that age level should very much be taken into consideration when deciding what & how much to tell. Also, what is told to the kids is dependent on where you are in the process. If the ws I still at home, keep it simple. If separation occurs, then it is time to open up more.

The simple explanation of: "Dad and I aren't getting along these days and we need to spend some time apart to think about it" is sufficient enough for a young child. Don't feel that you are hiding info from your kids or not "being honest" with them (you are being honest.)
No, you are not being honest. If the reason for the separation is really because YOU wanted it and you want think about marriage, then it might be “okay” (at least for now).

Even if you are living apart and explanations need to be given about the break-up, you should leave the Other Person out of the picture.
If the ONLY reason for the break-up is the op, then that should be the reason given.

You should not be the one to tell your children that the reason for the break-up is because "dad ran off with so-and-so."
Agreed. This is the job of the ws. But what if they never tell them? Then YOU as the responsible parent OWE it to your children to let them know what is going on (age appropriate of course).

Children are too precious--childhood is too short--for little kids to deal with these issues.
Your job as a parent is not to shield them from everything. It is to show them how to deal with everything, good and bad.

Infidelity is a subject that little children should not be introduced to.
They are already introduced to it when the ws chooses to have an affair. The bs, as the responsible parent, should show them how to deal with it.
Teach them it’s not right to leave a marriage for someone else. Teach them how to love even while the ws is doing this to the bs.

Besides that, you should never ever vilify your wayward spouse to his/her children,
Telling the kids an affair is happening is not vilifying the ws. It all depends on HOW you tell them.

Children always need two parents, irregardless of whether those two parents live together. When you create out a monster out of the other parent, the child has lost a part of that parent that can hardly be replaced. He will think "If dad can hate mom, then what will he do to me?"
Which is why you explain that everyone makes mistakes (even parents). Explain the best way deal with a mistake to own up to it & do everything possible to fix it. (and the ws is NOT doing this)

One thing that I do regret very much is that I told the children about his dad's girlfriend--under guise of being "honest," but secretly out of spite.
I don’t think it is a problem as to WHY you told but perhaps HOW you told them. If you said, “dad is scum and living with a slut” then that is wrong.
If you said, “dad made mistake and is now living with his girlfriend. That is not something you do when you are married", this would be the correct way to handle it.

In the throes of hatred towards them both, I outright told my then five-year-old son that "dad has a girlfriend" and that "he wants to live with her now and not mommy." There were no tears or questions from my son (children that young tend to be only accepting of their world--good or bad--rather than try to make sense of it.) I told my teenage daughters from my first marriage that their stepdad left me for someone else--I didn't elaborate in either case, but that still didn't make it right.
Sure it was. They DESERVED to know why dad & mom were not living together.

Now, five years later, my daughters, being old enough to understand, will never accept my husband again, the way they did.
And why should they? He is not the same person he was and he has not done anything to own up to the situation (has he?) Did he apologize to you and the kids and explain he made a poor choice/bad decision?

When my husband tries to assert authority over my son, the little guy is often disrespectful to his father.
Your husband is not earning their respect. That is his fault, not theirs (or yours).

I am ashamed to consider what he will think when he is a teenager, or a young man.
You’re ashamed your husband had an affair?

Will he think that all men do this to women? That marriage is terrible and not worth the trouble? Will he think that I was an awful woman that his father left me?
Which is why it is explained to them by words and by actions by the bs (responsible parent).

protect your kids from becoming adults before their time.
Yeah, but don’t make them think of their parents as infallible. Let them see you as human and capable of making mistakes. Demonstrate the correct way to handle things and when they grow up and make mistakes, they will know what to do.

I had ignored this post for awhile because this is a subject I feel passionately about.

And I feel so passionate that I may sound unkind...but, your poor kids. I don't want to meet them in college when they have to live life on their own. You have "protected" them from the troubles of the world, but have denied them the opportunity to problem solve these troubles till then.

I work with kids every day, they are INCREDIBLY resilient and able to see the end of the tunnel, if we can guide them in ways to solve problems.

No matter what you tell your kids, they SEE things. When I read parent's post that they don't think it's right to tell their children about indiscretions of the parents...I read into it that the parent doesn't want to bring up a shameful topic with the child and possibly have them appear as a human instead of the superparent they pretend to be.

Sorry to be so harsh. I can not condone lying to ANYONE least of all the people that will take care of you in your old age.

Found this article on the site...

Infidelity: The Lessons Children Learn By Jennifer Harley Chalmers, PhD

Bernzini,
I had very mixed feelings when I read your post. We too are 4 years into recovery. My older daughter who is now 18, discovered H was having an affair--he'd tossed the copy of After the AFfair I'd given him in the back of his SUV. And at 14, she put all the pieces of why we were separated together.

What I had said to that point was that "Dad had chosen not to live at home and had some problems he was dealing with." I was never comfortable with saying "We" had come to the decision, because it wasn't "us" choosing, it was him.

I also told both girls that I felt strongly about the vows I had taken, as just as my mom didn't leave my ailing father and loved him through the changes in his life that a stroke brought, I wasn't married to their dad just for the good times, but sickness, health, better and worse.

And, when my older daughter knew the details of some of the worse, I expanded on that theme that I wanted our family together and I was going to do what I could to make that possible. She also thought we would/should divorce and she did call him scum to his face. It was near that time that he hit bottom.

Now, 4-5 years later, he has put forth a lot of effort in that relationship. He apologized to our daughters for leaving all of us. Part of his fog had been that he hadn't left the girls, just me. Of course, since he wasn't here, more than a visitor, he had left them.

But, because he has put forth the effort, he has earned back respect, and love. And, as he left for deployment, she told him she was proud of him for serving our country.

I've never said anything about the A to my younger daughter, now 16 because she an entirely different person in her temperment and of all of us was the most accepting to my H during the bad times.

So, quite honestly, in your case, at this point, I think the fault in your children's disrespect lies not with what you told them, but with your H and that he did not do the work to recover those relationships.

And, it isn't too late, if he's willing or understands that it can, and should, be done.

This is a reply to a post on "in recovery", but it applies here too. I've seen both ends of this discussion - child and parent.

My parents are divorced - my father was having an A (ironically it was with my mother's brother's wife).

At first, I wanted to be neutral because as with many mothers and daughters my relationship with my mom was not great anyway so I thought she must be responsible. I had "normal" relationships with both mom and dad(58)/wife(43) (he married OW and had a child) for a year.

In looking back at the entire situation, I was devastated by the A and eventual divorce. This occurred 7+ years ago when I was almost 30 and I still have difficulty with it to this day.

The rest of the story:
Dad, whom I realize now was never really part of my life even growing up with him in the same house, showed his true colors when he "ditched" my own family and choose work and his new family during an important event. I went to great lengths to make sure both of my parents could attend the event with as little contact as possible - he never showed and called that evening after I had had an exhausting day. I haven't heard from him since and that was 6 years ago last month.

Mom, who did all childrearing and emotional support, wants to be close to my sister and me, but I can't be that close. I feel she's overbearing and too involved. I love her, but I have limited contact because I need my space.

Where am I going with this? Parents: I can tell you from first hand experience, even adult children may have difficulties with As or Ds. I knew my parents didn't get along well, I believe he'd had an A with this OW when I was a kid, and my dad was not really invested in the relationship, but as a kid I was happy to have both parents around and at home (like a "normal" family). I knew a lot of things about their relationship that they didn't tell me so I actually came to resent them for not sharing what I knew was happening.

My own family is now experiencing the fallout from an A - WH. My sons (13, 11) know about it - they heard the explosion so I explained to them what was happening. My WH also spoke to them and told them what happened was wrong. We both told them that we planned to work very hard to make our M and family work and so far so good (mostly anyway - roller coaster you know).

They understand more about what we need sometimes, than we do. They have given us space and time to be alone (we don't neglect them). Last night I planned a special dinner just for WH and me. The boys figured it out and were so excited to help - they ate early and went to an activity. Afterward, they even asked, "Was he surprised? How did he like it?" and they told me how they distracted him from asking them questions on the way to the activity.

They can feel our relationship changing (for the better - at least for now) and it helps for them to KNOW what's going on and not have to guess (like I did). We don't share details of ups or downs (although I think they have a sense of good days and bad days), but they know we are working to change things and can see the benefits (affection, conversation, attention, etc. between H & me).

Sorry if I rambled on, but I wanted to share from the child's perspective, as well as a parent of teenagers going through the same thing.

My daughters are 9 and 12 and so far they have not been told that their dad is an adulterer.It is my personal feeling that Infidelity will not be discussed until I am divorcing.Right now,my WH has agreed to my decision that our girls will not be exposed to the homewrecker.He also knows that I would not allow it and go so far as to have a court order to keep her away from my children.

If we do D and my WH is still with the HW and he is going to attempt to expose our daughters to this person,I will explain in more detail who this person is and why they will be seeing her.I don't feel that their innocence should be altered anymore than it has by just the fact that my WH and I do not live together anymore(work related) and that we are having marriage problems.I do periodically talk with the girls to see what they know,how they feel and give them an opportunity to ask questions but any more than that isn't necessary right now IMO.

Infidelity is such a smarmy,disgusting,selfish act and until I am absolutely sure the kids need to know why their father and I are not the same anymore,I am going to protect them.

I too grew up in a home where my father was somewhat of a "womanizer",spending more of his time and energy on other women than on my mother and I am also from a divorced family(no surprise).It was a tremendous painful blow to know about my dad's behavior and has forever altered the relationship I have with him.Only recently,having gone through my Infidelity,has he had deep regrets about his life and our relationship,his only child.Not a day goes by where I don't wish I had a loving,stable home life growing up where my parents lived together and loved each other.I have always felt something missing and my WH had mostly filled that void for quite a while by helping to create a family with me.Unfortunately,I am dealing with that pain all over again and for that,I don't know that I can ever forgive my WH for his selfish, destructive actions.

o

Octobergirl,
Right now,my WH has agreed to my decision that our girls will not be exposed to the homewrecker.He also knows that I would not allow it and go so far as to have a court order to keep her away from my children.
Good move!

I too grew up in a home where my father was somewhat of a "womanizer",spending more of his time and energy on other women than on my mother and I am also from a divorced family(no surprise).It was a tremendous painful blow to know about my dad's behavior and has forever altered the relationship I have with him.
How much of this was discussed with you by your parents when you were going through it?

Chris,

I was 15 when my mother tried to explain what she was going through and feeling although,looking back,I didn't really understand,not fully.My dad didn't talk to me much about anything,let alone their relationship.But I was already in the process of discovering that things were not right between my parents by the yelling and discussions they had while I eavesdropped.

Another reason that I will not discuss the real issue why my WH and I are separated is that due to the age my daughters are at,they do not have the capacity to understand the magnitude of what is going on.Until they are adults with some history with relationships themselves will they truly understand what it means to be betrayed like we have(bs).

I'm sure we can all agree that this is a very complex situation to be dealing with and infinitely more difficult to try and explain to a child.They have enough on their little minds without the added burden of another person(homewrecking stranger)coming into their lives and what that all entails.I want to protect my girls from the sickening drama and I will do so until the very last second before bringing this down on them.I hope it never comes to that but I am prepared if it does.

O

I am trying to put the shoes on the other feet: if I were the one that had the affair, and was trying to end it and come back to the marriage, would I want my children to know all about what I had done? I think the shame would be unbearable. It would constantly be on my mind what my kids were thinking of me. I would be ashamed to the point where I would not want to come back to the family--I has seen this happen to friends several friends. The WS has left the marriage, left the OP, and has just not come back. Out of shame. How do you begin to make it up to your kids? At this point, after going this far, I wish that I had spared my kids. My son still talks about dad's girlfriend as if the affair was still going on and dad could leave again at any moment. I know that my husband has not seen the woman for at least four years because we live in another country, and him going back to her any time soon is not a reality.

I have heard adults speak of how they, as a child, came home from school and discovered their mother in bed with a stranger, or how their betrayed father tried to commit suicide after finding out about about his wife's adultery, in front of his family. How much drama can a kid take--or is keeping him from things like this preventing him from "dealing with reality?" These are things that people do not forget for the rest of their lives--and I see plenty of people who NEVER deal with these events properly. Simply knowing the truth does not give the person the ability to deal with the truth.

I dont really have an opinion one way or the other, as I think each circumstance has it's own warrant for telling the chidren. I have to say that my 3 YO asked me why his dad didn't live with us anymore, I told him that his dad didn't want to live with mommy. I didn't say us, because that really wasn't true, as he would love to live with DS just not me. He asked me why and I told him Daddy had a girlfriend.

So right out of his mouth comes well I don't like her because she took my daddy away. Now a three year old figured this out on his own. He also told my mother that he doesn't want to meet her because she took his daddy away. Children aren't dumb, there is no nice way to explain these things.

In the end they figure it out on their own, even at 3.

HINY

Bernzini,

I think that what can overcome shame is when a WS ends their adultery,apologizes for their actions,comes back to the marriage and family and works at repairing all the damage and is truthfully remorseful.

We all have the ability to forgive but we first have to have the willing WS to make ammends and protect and care for those that were promised such care,love and protection but were not.If I were a WS,these would be my goals.

O

The kids will follow your lead. If you don't act like you forgive the WS, I doubt your children will. If you demonstrate forgiveness to a repentant WS, your children will probably follow your lead.

Will it happen immediately? No guarantees, since they too have the hurts they deal with.

However, I think you need to encourage them to let go of their pain and anger and forgive the WS.

Perhaps the WS should go to the child and say that what they did was wrong, and ask the child to forgive them. There is nothing wrong with a parent asking a child to forgive them, nothing.

Tony

Children are not responsible for the thoughtless acts of their parents. I believe the mature and rational thing to do is to protect them from that, which is something they may not understand. Whatever the outcome, it is important to let children know that they are loved. If the children are adults, that is another story and they probably would figure it on their own. There is no need to drag the WS through the mud, if you have hopes of reconciliation. Somebody has to act mature and intelligently. It does not help if both parties act childish and selfishly.

And I suppose if your spouse committed a crime and was incarcerated, you would try to hide that from the children as well?

When children are not given a logical reason for their parents' divorce, they come up with their own explanations - that is why children sometimes blame themselves. No child with half a brain is going to buy the "we're not getting along" excuse for very long. Why would anyone WANT them to think that was a valid reason for a divorce? I would want my children to know that marriage is permanent, that love is a verb, and it is essential that they make whatever effort is needed to "get along."

It is not knowing that their parent did something wrong that destroys relationships - rather, it is that the parent does not admit his wrongdoing and make amends for it. When you hide the affair, the child ends up loving not the real, fallible, person, but a figment of someone's imagination.

When they find out the truth, as they almost undoubtedly will, they will feel doubly betrayed.

I don't post much, but this is something I've thought quite a bit about. Background: my now ex-husband had at least an EA with co-worker before we separated two years ago, PA while separated (one year) before divorce last year. They are still together and talking about marriage (puke). My son just turned 4.

We have not told DS about his father's affair. DS spends time with OW, he likes her very much, and while it is very painful for me I decided it was more important for my son to have a good relationship with his father right now. I am civil to her, as I believe it is important for my son that the adults in his life get along. I don't want him to have the tension of constant battles among people he loves, and if OW is going to be around for awhile (as it now looks) DS should have a good relationship with her.

I think about it like this: what is best for my son, particularly during this difficult transition period, is for him to know that both his parents love him, they aren't leaving him, and he has two homes - one with Daddy and one with Mommy. Divorce, separation, marital problems in the family are all terribly tramatic for a young child. It shakes up their world, leaving them insecure about all kinds of things. I think information about "daddy has a new girlfriend and he likes her more than mommy" or "mommy doesn't love daddy anymore so she lives with her boyfriend" threatens their security even further.

For example, say a couple has a lot of financial problems; one spouse is a gambler and they lose savings, car is repossessed, almost lose their house, etc. What do you tell the kids? Do you tell them that daddy spent all their money? Do you tell them that the reason they don't have enough money for dance lessons or soccer uniforms is mommy's fault becuase she took that money to the track? No, of course you don't. That is too much information for young kids, it shakes up their world too much. They start wondering if they'll have enough food, where will they live, how will they get lunch, other things kids don't need to worry about. They should be told something about there not being as much spare money for the family, but that all their needs will be met and the family will be fine. That makes them more secure through a difficult transition. Same thing if the issue is infidelity.

To do otherwise puts far too much blame on their father, someone who they need to have confidence in and who they need to respect = for their own self-esteem and development. Kids just don't need that. While well-intentioned, I know, I think that information makes a separation/divorce even MORE difficult for a kid.

Sure, I think sometimes that my ex made stupid foolish choices that hurt me and our son, he should feel the consequences of that. Including damage to his father/child relationship. But my son doesn't deserve that. His father and I had problems, ex was a bad husband. But he is a good father. Son should evaluate his father on the basis of their interaction and relationship, not on the marriage and the crappy thing ex did to me. I wouldn't think it appropriate for ex to tell DS about all the mistakes I made in the marriage, either.

I believe it is my job to help my son come through this with a few scars as possible. Telling him details about what a [censored] his father was to me doesn't serve that purpose.

Just my opinion, sorry so long. I know we are all doing the best we can.

Carljo

OctoberGirl -

I agree with you about trying to keep the OW away from the kids. That is a major concern of mine. I posted the following question the other day...

Can anyone point me in the direction of some articles that may point out that it is not healthy for young children to be exposed to the OW while we are not yet divorced??

This is a major concern of mine. We are now separated and sharing custody of the kids. We are going to begin sessions with a divorce mediator and I want to bring this issue to the table. Would be good if I had some information to back up my claim.

... did your H just agree or did you present some data, studies, etc?

I do not plan on telling my kids about their father's affair at this point but if we do get a divorce, I can't imagine that they won't figure it out down the road. They are very bright children (aren't they all!) However, I do refuse to say that "we" are having problems. I also tell them that I love Daddy very much and wish he would come home. And that's why I cry a lot and don't get much done around the house. So my 5 year old says "And that's why I don't want to talk about it, cause it makes you too upset." I tell them that he loves them very much but doesn't want to live with Mommy.

My children are adults and they were told.

They have both made me proud - I am the wayward one and my relationship with both of them is still wonderful because we have been honest with them.

Things may have been different if I had left or if their father isn't the wonderful man he is.

I also believe and I've said it on another post here that children pick up EVERYTHING that is going on and honesty and openness is the best way to deal with them.

I also said on the other post that my family hid everything. One of the things was that my aunt had a severely disabled child and she (the child) died at 1 year old. They couldn't cope after the birth and the baby was put into a home. My aunt and uncle stayed with us during their grieving period. I would have been about 10. I was told the baby had died at birth (not told about the disability) and I KNEW that there was a lot more to it than I was being told. I was confused and upset by everything but knew better than to ask.

NEVER underestimate what children know and pick up.

Jenny

Well, having seen the disastrous fall-out from my MIL's affair and divorce, none of which she's ever explained to her now adult children, IMO assuming the kids will be 'protected' by a cover-up is not a good idea. Her 4 kids from her first marriage are up to 5 divorces (when WH divorces me it will be 6)...

And one of the major problems WH has is thinking lying = loving, that it doesn't matter what he does to me AND daughters, as long as we all lie to cover it up. Since his mother kept secrets to 'protect' her kids, he lies to us to 'protect' us, and we are expected to cover-up for him or else we don't really 'love' him.

Also, I tried keeping quiet about my WH's past affairs and it just enabled him to do it again. Plus the kids, even at a very young age, knew something was up anyway. Little kids assume everything's their fault so it's actually kind of cruel to not give them at least enough of the facts so that they can just stay kids and not try to guess what's going on, thinking it must be their fault.

My daughters are teens and they suspected their father was having an affair before he moved out and before I said anything about my suspicions to them. THEY have confronted me many times about their father's behavior and lies. They would just lose all respect for me if I had tried to lie to them (even a lie of ommission).

IF they ever respect and trust their father again it will ONLY be because he has earned it - as it should be.

And they don't distrust ALL males - only the ones who behave like their father. And THAT is a lesson that will help ensure they have a happy future.

Also, they are aware that I have read books and tried to save my marriage. They have a right to know that at least one of their parents tried to keep the family together. Why let them assume neither parent cares enough about them to try everything possible to save the marriage? IMO that would be cruel.

The concept of a 'no-fault' divorce is a fiction and nobody knows this more keenly than a kid whose parents are getting a divorce. The 'it's nobody's fault - Mommy & Daddy are just going to split up' line is a lie. BOTH parents owe it to the kids to do absolutely everything to keep the marriage and family together, including protecting the marriage from the destruction caused by an OP.

[ May 07, 2004, 07:11 AM: Message edited by: meremortal ]

I agree meremortal...

For those parents who think that lying is protecting the children (and yes, ommission of facts is lying) then please don't be surprised when they lie to you some day and not blink twice, they were taught well!!!

Maybe I should clarify my story and that will help you better understand my point. That is--the affair pretty much ended when I found out. I was the one who left him. That's right--I left him. He did not leave me, per se, for his girlfriend. We were actually apart when he was screwing around, but that's because we were both in the military and stationed on opposite ends of the country. We had been reunited, geographically, when I found out. Finding out about the affair gave me the answer as to why he was acting so weird and being so nasty to me. I couldn't take his hostility any more, so I packed my suitcase and went back to the US, hoping that when he realized I wasn't playing, he would feel sorry and come and get me. It was a great deal of hurt pride on my part. He didn't come and get me for over a year. He was ashamed, and he also couldn't leave his job. And other reasons--like the fact that he had found porn and the local nightlife (buy-me-drinky) to be a comforting substitute for a wife, and that was good enough for a guy like he was.

The OW was also living in the US with her husband by then. In short, he blew it with both of us. (Actually, I helped him "blow it" with her because I phoned her and warned that if she came near my family again I would. . .well, I aint gonna say, but I would probably be writing to you from prison if I could have done what I felt like.)

The affair was the reason for the breakup, but it was over when I found out. So, OW wasn't really a part of the picture after I discovered (but I had almost two years worth of their chat and e-mails stored on our computer, so I knew exactly what had transpired during that time. It made me feel even more angry to know that I had been decieved for so long.)

OW was no longer really a threat to me. Therefore, it was not necessary to mention her in any way. It should have not been necessary, in my case, to tell my kids that their father had been cheating on me and that's why I left him.

I have had a very sucessful recovery--pretty much. The hurt never really goes away, it's always down deep in that filing cabinet. For a long time, I knew exactly which files to pull when I was pissed off and wanted him to know how mad I was. Those times have gotten far between. I am not perfect either.

As I have had a so-far sucessful recovery, I am just telling you all from my experience what I would have done differently, and this is the number one thing. You all can argue if you like--you know your families and you know what's probably good for them. But me, I would never again tell a five year old kid that dad has a girlfriend (knowing that it would give him the idea that he had a new mommy lined up.)

To all of those who had parents that fooled around on their partners: are you glad that you know? If your parents had secretly gone through an infidelity, and came through it together, would it still be of value of you to know, after the fact, why they had fought, left the household for a time, slept on the couch, drank too much, ect ect? Or would that be something that you could really live without knowing, and not be the worse for it?

Unfortunately, children are much more intelligent than we give them credit for - especially when it comes to emotions.

As I posted earlier, when I was a kid, by the time I was 8ish, I knew that something was wrong with my parents and their relationship. I also suspected why and through the years I was able to put it all together (comments, reactions, discussions I overheard, etc.). I resented that they were so dysfunctional and couldn't tell me what I knew to be true - my dad had an affair(s), he wasn't invested in the M, he didn't participate in my activities, he lived with us but didn't parent us, etc. Later he used the excuse that my mother wouldn't let him do the "parent" stuff (bull). To this day (nearly 30 years after beginning to figure it out), I resent them both. I believe they were dishonest when it came to their relationship with my sister and me.

Depending on the age of your children and your ability to act and hide the problem, I'm not sure if you can really hide something as big as infidelity from them.

We've never provided details to our sons (13, 11) about the A. They heard the explosion when it was discovered and needed to know why this was happening. My WH and I both spoke to them briefly and separately. We told them the same things: there was ow, it was over, it was wrong (important that WH told them this), and we were going to work on rebuilding our M. This way they knew what was happening was not their fault.

Bottom line:
If you can hide it all, great - kids may not need to know. I would have gladly been oblivious to my parents' problems and not faced my own, personal fallout as a result.
If you can't hide it, however, do you want them to resent you for the rest of your life because you were "dishonest" when they knew at least part of the truth?

I do agree with some of the others, however, every situation is different and parents need to use their intuition to determine what's right for their family. Life seems to be a learn as you go situation - sometimes you're decisions are right and sometimes they are wrong. We can only do our best and hope we make more right decisions than wrong.

Maybe I should clarify my story and that will help you better understand my point. That is--the affair pretty much ended when I found out. I was the one who left him. That's right--I left him
I don't believe that matters. No one is suggesting you HAVE to stay together after an affair.
And telling the kids, "we didn't get along" will do two things.
1 - Let them know it is okay to simply leave a situation when "they don't get along" (marriage/relationship, job, etc.)
2 - Keep them wondering if THEY had done something which made you not get along or if they could have done something to make you get along better.

Simply knowing the truth does not give the person the ability to deal with the truth.
But would you rather NOT be told the truth and have the same mixed up feelings and NOT understand anything of why you are feeling like this?
At least if you know the truth, you won't be making up things in your head which have little to do with reality.

And as I said previously, what is told to them should be age appropriate. And even when they are old enough know everything, they don;t need to know everything you know.
Don't try to make out your ws as the "bad guy". Simply explain they made a poor choice (to have an affair).

[ May 07, 2004, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]

This is from No Divorces and my thoughts are the same.

"From the mouths of babes...
Many people feel children should be sheltered from exposure to the issues of divorce and unfaithfulness, but nothing could be further from the truth.
Too often, children suffer tremendous pain and take on blame for their parent's divore, and often when these issues are avoided, children are exposed to a terrible example of unfaithfulness and dishonesty that never goes challenged. They learn it is OK to be unfaithful, and it is OK to pass responsiblity off onto others, and this plants seeds of unfaithfulness and divorce into their hearts and minds from the time they are children.

In truth, much of the motive for sheltering is not really so much to shelter the child, but to shelter the unfaithful from disapproval in the eyes of their children--a disapproval that should rightfully be there. It is time to bring responsiblity for faithfulness back to the parents who promised it to their spouses and to their families."

Ok.I feel a need to clarify my own situation.

First,I am not hiding anything from my children rather it is a conscious effort on my part to sheild them at THIS time from the issue of Infidelity.There will no doubt be a time when they will be told more but now is not the time for us.Too much is uncertain such as to whether or not we will come through this A and be together again working on our marriage or be divorced.In NO WAY am I condoning adultery or giving the impression to my girls that adultery is right or even that what daddy is doing is right.

What they know is that daddy has made some bad decisions that hurt mommy and mommy wants to try and fix the problems in our marriage but daddy does not and it takes two people to fix problems.They also have been told numerous times that what is going on between their dad and me is not their fault,there was nothing they could have done to prevent it(i.e better grades,clean their rooms better,etc) and that mom does not want to talk or be with daddy until he can get some help.Things like that.I have periodically had time with my girls where we have "girls night" and talk about what is going on in our lives,what they know,how they feel,give them an opportunity to ask questions and give them all of my time.So far,what they have been told is enough to satisfy them.One day there may be the time where I will have to tell them about this homewrecker but it will be on MY terms.I do not trust my WH to tell them what is going on.

My girls and I are very close and have lived without WH a lot for the past 8 months and even before that due to his job.It has always been us three and I'll be DAM sure that my girls know that their mother was strong,level headed,patient and caring despite what I am going through and they already know what it means to treat someone you love with respect.They will have no doubt about their father and when the time comes,they will deal with him in their own ways.They will be completely heartbroken because of the special relationship they have had with him but he has changed and not for the better.

I do not want my girls laying awake at night thinking about why daddy will not stop seeing the homewrecker or spend time with her instead of us and all those disgusting painful ideas because right now WH will not stop the adultery and that is also why I will not tell them specifics yet.Overall my girls are doing very well,happy and life has conitnued on without WH so I will not destroy their world until I know for SURE that I have to.The consensus seems to be to bring the children right into the middle of the disaster and I am not going to do that.My WH actions will be known,but at the right time.As someone mentioned,it is a personal choice for each family how to deal with this.

O

I am not hiding anything from my children rather it is a conscious effort on my part to sheild them at THIS time from the issue of Infidelity.
Why do they need to be "shielded"?
9 & 12 are not too young to understand the basics of what is going on.

In NO WAY am I condoning adultery or giving the impression to my girls that adultery is right or even that what daddy is doing is right.
I don't think that is what you are doing.

My girls and I are very close and have lived without WH a lot for the past 8 months
And they ae pretty clueless as to WHY daddy doesn't want to live at home.

I do not want my girls laying awake at night thinking about why daddy will not stop seeing the homewrecker or spend time with her instead of us and all those disgusting painful ideas because right now WH will not stop the adultery and that is also why I will not tell them specifics yet.
You don't need to get too specific.
Maybe something like, "Dad chose to live with another lady right now.
That is not something that married people should do.
Everyone, including us (parents) make mistakes. Remember when I (tell them when you screwed something up and what you did to fix it).
The best way to handle when you make a mistake is to say your sorry and make sure you don't do it again.
I still love your Dad and I want him to come home, but he chooses not to at this time."

The consensus seems to be to bring the children right into the middle of the disaster
The consensus is that you children ARE ALREADY in the middle of the disaster and it should be explained why the disaster is happening and what you are doing to slow it down.

[ May 07, 2004, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]

I can understand why Octobergirl is choosing not to disclose too much information to her girls. Her story reminds me a lot of my own parents.

My Dad cheated on my Mom with many different woman. His most serious relationship (soulmate) was with my Mom's best friend. They lived next door to us and her daughter (same age than me) was my best girlfriend. We even went to the same school, played on the same soccer team etc. When my Mom found out about the affair, it was huge. I will never ever forget this during my entire life. It was horrible to see my Mom like this. The OW's H divorced her and my own parents separated. I stayed with Grandma most of the time while my Mom went back to school and worked. The relationship between my Dad and OW did not survive. Afterwards he had many more affairs - with bargirls, co-workers, you name it...

During the visitations, I was introduced to many of his OW. Some were nice to me, some were manipulative and some were mean.

After many years of separation, my parents reunited and recovered their marriage. They also had another child - a boy, my brother.

I do not have any children, but I know that if I did then I would probably react in the same way that Octobergirl does. Her H's relationship with OW may not survive and introducing those young children to this woman could do a lot of damage that is irreversable.

I believe that a lot of my self-esteem issues as well as the kind of men that I've picked in the past and the turmoil in my own marriage is directly related to my childhood. One can never reclaim their childhood and it should be kept as precious and as innocent as possible.

I believe she is doing the right thing. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

Kati

Chris,

Just to clarify,my WH is not living with us because he is working for a company that is too far for him to commute to from home.We moved into our dream home a year and a half ago and he knows that the girls and I are not moving again for any reason(I told him so).We have followed him around for years(moving) while he went from job to job.I am finally settled,the girls are settled and I ADORE my home.

So,my WH gets work where he can and for the past year(most recently) that has meant far away from us(3 hours).We have a very expensive home and big bills so he has to get work that brings in the big income that we are accustomed to.He does not currently live with the HW,she lives in Toronto and I have no idea if she is planning to quit her job and move closer to WH or what.That is the reasoning behind daddy not living at home and I leave it at that because it is true and we have dealt with this before.

Also,our home life is anything but a disaster,I meant for other's who discuss infidelity with their kids and everything changes.On the contrary,our home life(me and the girls) is very calm,safe,loving,and wonderful.We have an amazing home and property that is so serene and private.When WH isn't here,we do very well.It is when he IS here that it is hard to cope and the girls see that I am uncomfortable around him.We do not yell and scream at each other but it is apparent that I do not feel good with WH being here,which is why I am trying to get this Legal Separation or D going.WH has to realize that he can't come here to the home every weekend,have his fix of me and the kids and try to play happy family and then leave again,back to business as usual.He wants to be Mr. Cake eater.Family on the side and HW in the wings.

I hope I have made things more clear.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

O

I'm not (necessarily <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) trying to convince YOU that YOU should tell your kids everything. This is just a discussion in general about telling the kids.
Just that most parents should be very open & honest about it, EVEN if it is painful to everyone.

I'm kinda confused about the house.
Your dream house is someplace where you cannot afford to live, so h has to move someplace else to find work which pays well enough?

Shouldn't the priorities be;
1 - living with family
2 - having a good job
3 - having a home you can afford (without having to separate)?
Also, since you're filing for divorce, what happens when you have to move (again)?
Can you afford the house on your own? Even if you get awarded alimony, child support, etc. What if he decides not to pay? Or quits/loses job and CAN'T pay?

I have two situations I am dealing with here...in my case a son who is married with two young daughters...my stance on all of this was to try to not talk to my son about his father and the ongoing drama in our lives...our son is a caring young man who we instilled morals, family values, honesty, integrity, truthfulness etc. etc...at the present time he is fulfilling all of this list and then some to his family..he loves his girls but I have to tell you the way his father has conducted himself throughout this trying ordeal has hurt him big time..it is his father's actions that govern how he feels right now...he is a young man who knows the differnce between right and wrong and at the present time his father has let him down in every way...at times I see him talk to his father like he is the parent and WS is a sixteen year old...so sad to see...it does not matter how old our children are...it hurts them and it hurts deep...my grandaughters are mostly in the dark about everything but they are very smart little girls...I will never say anthing bad about their grandfather because they adore him.. I think because of their innocent actions in a few instances lately they are the big key to making WS think about his actions and how they reflect on these precious little girls...all I can say "Out of the mouth of babes"...

Advice on discussing it with teens (from the B.A.N. site):

http://www.dearpeggy.com/question.html

Thanks for that link meremortal...this is also great for adult children:

http://www.dearpeggy.com/com021.html

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Since the adult kids' feelings about the situation may be affected more by what the hurt parent DOES than what they SAY - it's important for the hurt parent to be able to show that they are not defeated, but will grow stronger and more independent as a result of dealing with this problem. This means the parent first needs to take care of THEMSELVES - instead of directly trying to take care of the adult kids. They need to set an example that the kids can follow in effectively working to understand and heal from the pain of this situation. <hr /></blockquote>The main concern my adult son has for me is whether I am going to be ok...he has seen me go through my initial pain stage...watched me loose so much weight...he worries about my well being in everyway..I would have to say in the last three months now that I am finally up and running he sees a big change in me...I am stronger, more independant, and he now knows I will be ok...that is the best gift I can offer him so that he can focas on his family without his previous worries..he is now happier and so am I...

[ May 07, 2004, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: New Outlook ]

Going by MB principles and such, I would have to agree that talking to the kids about the OP is not necessary.

How many times is it discussed on these boards that the OP's are merely SYMPTOMS of the marital problems, and not the actual problems themselves? (yes, you could argue here how some of the OP's are truly ignorant, and can also be blatantly trying to sabotage the M's involved... but again.. the issue goes back to the WS. This is all to be owned by them - the OP's involvement was welcomed by the WS, NOT the BS).

My children are very young (the twins just turned 3, and the older boy is going to be 5 in a few weeks), and I'm keeping what they know to a bare minimum. They know that daddy did some bad things at the old house, and that we don't know where daddy is anymore, and that daddy won't be coming to live with us anymore because he's living somewhere else. I don't think I've actually told them that daddy doesn't love mommy anymore, but I might have. I do know that I told them that daddy did some things that really hurt mommy, and we moved to be safe.

The truth will all come out as they get older, and start asking for details. The facts are that daddy is a sex addict, has been involved in multiple A's throughout our M and R, abused the kids by hitting them and yelling all the time (the twins don't remember... and the older boy is forgetting.. thank goodness!), he didn't provide for them (his financial needs came first... for example, new cd's to burn porn on would come before groceries or rent), he was arrested for the possession of child porn and the sexual assault on an 11 yr old girl (those charges were later withdrawn, b/c the cases weren't strong enough in court), etc. Obviously, it's WAY TOO much for the kids to deal with right now.

The ex is going to have to deal with the kids on his own over time. At the last visitation (June 2003), he brought his then "soulmate" along on it (BIG problem in my books, of course... but there was nothing I could do). OS has the most incredible memory... and I can almost guarantee that he'll come right out and ask daddy, "Where's Lisa?", should they ever have another visitation (it's still in the courts, b/c I'm insisting on supervised access for various reasons).

Oh... of course I'm getting WAY off track here. This is turning into a vent for me... a much needed vent I might add. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

All in all... I agree that the kids don't need to know about the OP, b/c they are merely a symptom of the A, which is merely a symptom of the lack of EN's being met in the M (usually).

HOWEVER... if the kids ask and want answers, then I believe that they should be told whatever can be told, at an age appropriate level.

Karen

Chris,

Ok,one more time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yes the priorities should be:
#1-living with family
#2-having a good job
#3-being able to afford home

But,I had no idea that my WH was going to have an A while on a job in Toronto,it was probably a ripe situation for him at the time and with a homewrecker that is ready,willing and able,there was little doubt that things could have been different.If WH was feeling so "unhappy" for so long,as he put it,it was just a matter of time IMO.

If WH hadn't had an A then sure,we would have moved again to be with him and be close to his job,like we have always done.BUT,I was not about to uproot the kids nor myself AGAIN knowing that:

A) my H just started an A
B) we were finally in our dream home,something we always wanted after all these years together
C) I was not going to risk moving to be closer to WH as things were,not knowing if we could get beyond the A or for WH to even end it,have a better marriage and be happy together.

That is why I am not moving again,ever unless for some reason we are forced out.My WH has always said that he would rather live on the streets than have us lose this home and have me and the girls live somewhere else or in a smaller home,less of a nice heighborhood,etc,etc.I'll at least give him credit for that.He has never not covered us financially and he said he would even if we do D.He knows I can get what I want anyway,I have talked to a Lawyer and since he has been living comfortably on his own elsewhere,covering all our expenses and I have documentation of this,I was told that I had an excellent chance of maintaining the staus quo,which WH agreed to anyway.

Gotta run.I hope this clarifies thngs again.

o