...WW pulled out all guns..making me look like criminal...got new papers

Went to Lawyers office first and discussed what is about to happen.......I have a good case he said .........Well we got to the court room...My brother and 21 yr old son were there for moral support..............While we were waiting to go int the jugdes room Ww showed up with her lawyer .....My lawyer asked if they wanted to bargen..he said no and throws up his papers.........WW had in there that I might hurt D because she was under age when she had Meagan.........*****.........Me and lawyer went out into hall to talk and lawyer said that statuerd of limitations is 12 yrs in my state. she just turned 28 two more years...I screwed up and fell in love with a 17 yr old .........everything was ork until someone called OM probation officer back in 8th of july......Now all of a sudded I am a pervert.........go figure........Well I liked to died when I seen thoughs papers he threw up.......My lawyer said do you want to fight what she said .........I said what are my chances.....She said I am a danger to my D..........they want me to have a pervert test to see if I would ever hurt Meagan.........Well we got in to the judges room and I sat across from WW and the two lawyers sat across from each other.........then the judge came in and saw my request for full custody and there request for me to be tsted and that they wanted full custody and me to have supporvised custody........WW lawyer started to get cocky right off ...I had a list of 20 people for witnesses including 5 from the school district...The judge said...to my lawyer that my it looks like you are only missing 3 people from the school district and laughed.It made me more relaxed........Her lawyer started to say some thing and the judge told him to shut up ,that you are in our couny now and that you are only a visiter.......I liked to have died.........he was so funny...well they requested supporvized visatation and I have a test....My lawyer told them that we wanted them both tested........well the judge said we need to work this out and left the room for a few minutes.......My lawyer told me that she could go to the police if she wanted and start alot of ****.....he asked me if I would take the test and I said yes at a differnt testing place.........that we pick...well we went back in there and her lawyer told the judge that my 21 yr old son would be gppd to have as a supporvizer and I told the judge that my 21 yr old just left for college.......the judge asked me who lives at my house and I told him that my 17 yr old son and Meagan live there when she is there.....he turned around and ask WW who lives where she resides...WW said her and boyfriend and meagan and OM s 6 yr old.........the judge said om has a d living there and WW said well every other weekend........judge said so she don't really live there........she said no then the judge said that d don't really live there either she is there when she has her.......WW said yes...Then the judge said if mr Frank takes the test then we could work this out........My WW lawyer said if I pass this test then we will have joint custody.......week on week off that it will be better for the child.....then we got into the school issue .The judge ask WW were the child will go to school and WW told him that she was under the under standing that if you have joint custody that the child could go to either parents school district...So they will keep Meagan in the same school....Thank god .....Well now my 17 yr old son will be the supporvizer of me and Meagan until the next hearing on the 15 of sept.......The judge asked WW if it was ok for 17 yr old to play in sports after school or will mr. BS get into trouble andWW said that he could and that as londg as s is there at bed time.........can you believe this ****.........I was just happy to get meagan back ....so if everything goes alright we will have joint custody..........Ask me how I fell about WW now.......all this to prove to her OM that she loves him..........go figure.....I am doing alot of praying........if I fail the test we will be in for a big fight........this is what i get for falling in love with a 17 tr old........believe me it was consentual.....

[ August 28, 2004, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: frankd ]

Yikes frank, I thought for sure she did something to get you in jail. Thanks for posting.

why not ain't this enough.................I feel like a criminal..............My mom told me that I hope you don't regret this some day........Meagan calls me 4 to 5 times aday while she is there ...We call OM and WW the cat and dog so they don't know that we are talking about them.........meagan said thet are always fighting about something stupid.Meagan just called me and asked me if mommy said that she is going to be living there a long time is that a bad thing........I told Meagan not to worry everything is goint to be alright.....

Oh Frank.....how did u and Meagan ever find yourself in that place? I have followed your story and it makes me angry and sad in equal measure.

Thank God teh hearing went reasonably well. My prayers, for what they are worth, are with you. {{{frank & Meagan}}}

Frank,

High time to document it all. The WS will eventually slip (since greediness is their primary motive).

Keep your daughter's line of communication open. Will she be evaluated also? She will need to know it is ok to let the evaluator know when she was scared of the OM and what he tried to do to her.

I just shared your story with someone who is helping BIL. In our case the wife is H's sister and she is the WS. The BIL isn't as prepared as you are and been taken for a ride these past few years. Talk about denial. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

U sound like you are doing better. Keep up the good work.

All the best,
L.

you get busted for falling for a 17 yo? dang, how does Jerry Lee Louis get away with it, or Elvis for that matter. Too bad you aren't famous.

I'm sorry about all this, keep looking up.

way2

Frank, did your lawyer make it known to the judge that your WW is shacking up with a felon who has charges pending against him? Why would your lawyer agree to a BS test when he knows it's entire purpose is malicious?

frankd - I did not mean to say that what happened to you was not bad, however, I was really worried. I was afraid that somehow WW got you jailed.

What she is doing to you is very wrong. However I have no doubt that you will pass the test. So don't worry about it.

You know what is really the sick part.......I still love her........thats the sick part........But know I got to worry about meagan and michael........If I fail this test I will fix them ...I will tell the judge that I want supporvized visatation. at there house three nights a week for two hrs.........Love it .That will piss them off............

frank - How old were you when wife was 17? I will look up pervert tests and see if I can help you.

sorry to say a dumb 29

frank - Okay, that is a big age gap. How did you meet your wife?

How old was she when you got married?

she was 22 when we got married.......at a party she told me she was old and i was just out of a marriage.........she got peagnet 2nd time. we did it and i had just broke my back three weeks earlier.........I was stupid I know believe me it will never happen again......

did you get married because of the pregnancy?

Okay frank - I know you love your little girl. So you need to stick with this and go thru whatever testing you need to do. I know everything looks dark right now, but things will get better.

We are here for you. So take whatever tests you need to take for Meagan. I, for one, believe in you.

NO>NO>NO> Meagan was 5 I did not want to get Married because I was afraid this would happen she did so we did $4000.00 ring

frank,

Did you ever have a criminal history check done on the OM?

I realize you said in the past he was a felon and had some charges pending but what are they and what were his past offenses?

Ask your lawyer if he can check into this or it's easy enough to do yourself on the internet.

[ August 26, 2004, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Nerlycrzy ]

Frank,

What state are you in? Do I understand correctly, WW is 28 now? Did her parents have to give consent in order for you to marry her because she was under age? How old did she tell you she was?

I ask these questions to see if there is any direction I can provide based upon my professional backgroud....

Brit's Brat/BS-43
XH-45
DS-almost 3
Status: Divorce final May 2004 after two years of trying to recover marriage.

I'm finding it hard to believe they can get away with the 17 year old stuff .. by that time most states won't even look seriously at statutory rape. And in the early 90's ... dang I know people who the law won't consider it with a 16 yo with a 27 yo man.

way2

No she never talked to her mother.her father she has not seen since she was 5........We got married when she was 22.She wanted to get married ..so did I but I was leary because I got hurt in first marriage.......PA is the state

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Raising the age of the minor who is subject to protection by the law. North Carolina and Pennsylvania raised the age of the minor—up to 16 years—who is subject to protection under the criminal unlawful sex laws. <hr /></blockquote>http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/ovc/publications/infores/statutoryrape/handbook/find.html

okay now if I read this right .. PA law had a lower age for statutory rape prior to 1995 .. if this is so then you didn't do anything criminal -- right?

A few more questions. What was OM's felony conviction for and what are the charges currently pending against him? Did your lawyer present this to the judge? How did it seem to influence the judge? How old is OM? How old was his wife when the met/married? Was their daughter conceived prior to their being married? (In other words, is there some way to throw this back at them?) Have you or your lawyer talked to his XW to determine the cause of their divorce and any information she might have as to his character/fitness? I will probably think of more as I dwell on this...

Regards,

Brit's Brat

She is trying to make me look bad because she know what she is doing looks bad.....And she is doing this to prove to OM that she loves him..........I know what I did was wrong but I stuck by her through every thing and I bought her a new house.we traveled all over the states in a motorhome.she has seen a lot and was a good mother before this......I found out today that she took a test for the school for her teachers aid job that she quit this year.in march and called me to tell me past.....come to find out she did not........she had me wrapped around her finger........believe me.........she knew what she was doing............I was a fool.........now I might loose my Daughter.............Ain't life grand.........falling in love with someone to young....................2oo yrs ago this would have not been a problem............life sucks.........and i still love her........

EXCELLENT! Where in PA? (I am licensed in Ohio, but a VERY VERY VERY good friend of mine from childhood practices family law in the Pittsburgh area). Also, please see my next set of quesions...

Additionally, I used to work very closely with law enforcement...Do not let the threat of going to the police with the fact she was underage when you first had sex intimidate you. Even if they charged you, a good criminal defense attorney would kill your WW on cross examination...I would envision something along the lines of:

Attorney: Mrs. Frank, you are telling us the first time you had sexual relations with Mr. Frank, you were 17 years old?

Mrs. Frank: Yes, that's right.

Attorney: And it was not consensual on your part?

Mrs. Frank: At the time, I was a minor and didn't know any better.

Attorney: Now let me get this straight Mrs. Frank, you are telling this court that you didn't know any better and he used his position to take advantage of you because you were "of tender age." (That's a term lawyers like to use - they think it makes them sound smart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Mrs. Frank: Yes, that's correct.

Attorney: Now, Mrs. Frank, you and Mr. Frank eventually married, isn't that correct?

Mrs. Frank: Yes.

Attorney: And isn't it a fact that you were 22 years old at the time you married him?

Mrs. Frank: Yes, but....

Attorney: And, as I understand it, you left Mr. Frank for another man and lived with that other man while you were still married to Mr. Frank?

Prosecutor: Objection

Judge: Sustained (but that's okay because the jury heard it and once you throw a skunk in the jury box, you can take the skunk out, but the smell lingers....)

Attorney: Your honor the defense rests and respectfully requests that the jury be instructed that 22 years of age is considered to be several years above the age of consent.

Okay, so I was having some fun here at WW's expense. The fact is, she married you after the age of consent. She stayed married to you for many years after she was supposedly taken advantage of.

Regards,

Brit's Brat

[ August 26, 2004, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Brit's Brat ]

thats what i was saying.........If I was so bad why did she marry me..............I did not force her to do that ............I did not put a GUN TO HER HEAD............bELIEVE ME i TREATED HER GOOD...............This is the reason my mother said she will never come back to me......because of the age thing...now she told me 2 months after d-day that it was not an age thing..................

I am qualifying this by saying I am not licensed to practice law in the State of Pennsylvania and you should seek the advice of a lawyer licensed to practice in the State of Pennsylvania.

Frank, you need to really sit down with your lawyer on this....in just 5 minutes of purusing the Pennsylvania statutes on line, I found the following:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> § 3122.1. Statutory sexual assault.
Except as provided in section 3121 (relating to rape), a person commits a felony of the second degree when that person engages in sexual intercourse with a complainant under the age of 16 years and that person is four or more years older than the complainant and the complainant and the person are not married to each other.

<hr /></blockquote>This may or may not be up to date and the age referenced in the statute could be qualified by caselaw. If it is the current version of the statute, the age for consenting to sexual intercourse is 16.

Regards,

Brit's Brat

[ August 26, 2004, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: Brit's Brat ]

Frankd - Listen to Brit's Brat, what he is saying is very encouraging. Your WW is fighting with the only weapon she has; however, it turns out that weapon won't fire! Have your PA lawyer look into this so all your bases are covered but it sounds very good. I like the idea of a background check on OM and would highly recommend doing that, if you find out something that would be great ammunition to use the next time you are in court.

Brit's Brat correct me it I am wrong .. that's the current statute.. don't they have to use the statute that was in place when she was 17?

way2

It depends on the purpose for which they are using the statute. If they are using it for purposes of charging criminally, then yes, they would use the statute in effect at the time the "offense" took place - as near as I can tell, it would actually have been a lower age (14, I believe) at the time frank hooked up with WW - which is even better for Frank. If they are using it to discredit Frank in the child custody proceeding, WW's attorney might try to argue the higher age (16). A good argument would be that none of it is admissible in the child custody proceeding because which age for consent should applied is a moot point given that WW was over both ages - 14 and 16 at the time she hooked up with Frank. I don't know how the Pennsylvania court system is structure...in Ohio, where I am licensed, and in Texas, where I now live (I work for a large multinational), the Family Courts and their judges are separate from the Criminal Courts. It may be that the Family Court judge in Frank's case and his attorney don't know the actual age of consent and are assuming it is 18. Then, again, it could also be that there is more to this that you have to be a Pennsylvania licenses attorney to understand -the reason for my original qualification. I am merely offering my thoughts as ideas for Frank to present to his attorney. He should rely on his attorney for advice.

Brit's Brat

Hey Frank,

Could you give answers to my questions re: the felony OM has on his record and the charges currently pending against him, as well as whether your attorney has checked out the reason his first marriage ended and has the attorney talked to OM's XW to see if she has any relevant information?

Regards,

Brit's Brat

Duplicate Post

[ August 27, 2004, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: Brit's Brat ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> as near as I can tell, it would actually have been a lower age (14, I believe) at the time frank hooked up with WW - which is even better for Frank. If they are using it to discredit Frank in the child custody proceeding, WW's attorney might try to argue the higher age (16). A good argument would be that none of it is admissible in the child custody proceeding because which age for consent should applied is a moot point given that WW was over both ages - 14 and 16 at the time she hooked up with Frank <hr /></blockquote>That's what I thought .. and wondered why his lawyer didn't use it. If the age of consent was 14 (which I though it was lower prior to 1995 due to the snippet I posted here) then he's even more in the clear.

But they are trying to prove something quasi- criminally saying that he is in reality a sex offender, attracted to underage girls, and therefore cannot be trusted with D.

But even under the current PA statute, she was not underage (I worried about the earlier statute which could be used) - so they have no legal basis to assert that he is more a danger than any other father who has a daughter.

Frank - I can't see why your lawyer acted like they've got you by the b@lls if you have indeed told he/her everything .. it's a move your lawyer should have been prepared for and ready to counter.

way2

[ August 27, 2004, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: way2 ]

OM was not married to lady he has child by.........He has gun charges in past .I heard he got pulled over driving with out a licence..a couple weeks ago........

Got a nother paper from my lawyer from her lawyer wanting me to take a polygraph test along with perv test......I think they are trying to make this into a criminal thing........This ain't about my WW it is about Meagan.......Now I think they are tring to use this....to see if they can use it against me for criminal........I am calling my lawyer monday and telling that if they want to bring criminal case against me go ahead......I ain't taking any test........put me in jail..............I can see in my WW eyes that this is all coming from her lawyer..........**** HIM.......

Duplicate post.

[ August 28, 2004, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Brit's Brat ]

Frank,

Please talk to your lawyer about whether any of this even matters given the age of consent in PA. That is a very crucial point, in my opinion. Your lawyer ought to be filing what's called a motion in limine preventing them from even bringing it up...

One additional thing...a gun charge - if its strictly possession and not another offense along with the gun charge (e.g., assault) or driving without a license the prior conviction(s)is/are not going to have any influence on custody - not relevant...Sorry.

Brit's Brat

Frank,

A few quick questions:

First, how does your relationship with your wife have any impact on your relationship with your daughter. If your wife feels that you are a threat to your daughter why is she not being charged with depraved indifference for leaving her under your care and not seeking a restraining order? I am not a lawyer, but would think that your daughter should be examained in order to determine the quality of care that you have provided her in the past. She should also be questioned about how the OM treats her. I would think that she is old enough to have some say as to who she would like to live with. If not, I would ask your lawyer at what age she can make that choice.

Second, your wife was the one who detailed a two-hour long sexual encounter with the OM within earshot of your daughter. She is living in an adulterous relationship and is leaving your daughter home alone at night in order to drive the OM to work. Would this not qualify as reckless endangerment? The OM is a felon that has been caught driving with a suspended license, which may be relevant to your case. Several people who know your wife have commented on how terrible her appearance has been lately. Could this be used as an indicator of her state of mind?

Finally, your home seems to be a much more loving and stabil environment. Your daughter calls you repeatedly and asks to come home whenever she is at the OM's house. She misses her mother, but does not want to go with her as per your prior posts. That, to me, speaks volumes about who should be granted custody. I do not know your lawyer, but he/she should be asking these questions and explaining their relevance to your case in my opionion. Are you shure that your lawyer is up to the challenge?

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> ........I am calling my lawyer monday and telling that if they want to bring criminal case against me go ahead......I ain't taking any test........put me in jail..............I can see in my WW eyes that this is all coming from her lawyer..........**** HIM....... <hr /></blockquote>This is not what you want .. it will follow you forever. Some states even want sex offenders to put signs on their lawns identifying who they are, you have to put this on every loan application, job application, etc. and it's also on a national registery ... there are guys like you who have really done nothing wrong who are now sex offenders --- and for those men and those who are actual sex offenders, to varying degrees, this pressure is intense, they can not live any where they want, any way they want and are always branded and shunned -- and there is a growing number of suicides is among this group.

YOU DON'T WANT TO BE THERE -- for this will mean in many cases NO contact* with D until she is an adult and can also mean that you are barred from ever seeing your grand daughters alone until they are adults.

You need a plan -- under PA law you did nothing that is criminal -- don't let them make it that way... there's too much to loose.

way2

*no contact means no phone calls, no letters, no cards, no emails, no inquiry -- NO CONTACT

[ August 28, 2004, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: way2 ]

some states assign a lawyer to look out for the interests of the child in divorce and some types of death of one or both parents..

might it be possible or even a good idea to get a lawyer for D to look out for HER best interests?

Frank,

Bottom line, you are in a better position than your WW when it comes to morality. You have not molested your daughter, you do not have a record as a sex offender, and are not living in an adulterous relationship with a felon.

My wife was 17 and I was 24 when we started dating and having sex. Minors can become emancipated at 15 or 16 I believe, so what's the issue here? The statue of limitations has expired in any case, so she does not have a leg to stand on.

I do not believe that your lawyer is up to par. Are there any groups in your area that offer support and legal guidance to fathers seeking to gain custody of their children?

Om's gun charges were attempted assult.with a weapon.....He was driving again this weekend because WW had 18 yr old next store neighbor bring D to 7-11. because om was driving.D sad ww AND om WAS IN A fight at wal-mart last week he walked out and told ww she could walk home.......Aslo D told me friday they were down stairs drinking with 18 yr old neighbor girl...Nice ......Then d calls me friday I was at my olders son house.......it was 9:30 pm she was at OM sister in laws mothers house.she called me to tell me that she was spending the night( I did not reconize the phone #)I asked where mommy was and she said she went home,,,,,She wants the child and puts her off on other people when she is there........I don't even know........Then sunday morning I call WW and the phone is unblocked now.Om answered an I said is Meagan there, he said NO........I said tell her I called and hung up.......I called the # meagan called me from saturday night and a lady answered and I asked if Meagan was there and she put her on........I talk to meagan and when I picked up meagan at 6:00pm yesterday she told me that her mom told her that she is not allowed to call me from anyone's house if she stays there again.........I guess she don't want me to have there #'s or know that she is not even with her when she is there.........I am waiting for lawyer to call now...What if I plead the fifth on these test is that possible...Do not answer any questions what so ever..........just sis there .I think the whole thing sucks.........I had people both male and female told me that this is very degrading to do to me and they would not do it either..........

Frank,
I am confused as to why you are being forced to take a test for child abusers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

If your lawyer convinces you it is necessary, is the OM subject to the identical test? I do not see what has prompted anyone to suspect you of suspicious actions with your D. It sounds like dirty fighting to me.

Now to answer your question: do you take the 5th? if you are REQUIRED to take a test, tell the truth 100% of the time. If you have nothing to hide, don't give them reason to suspect that you do.

I just don't get a good feeling about your lawyer. He works for you and your primary issue at this point is protecting your D. Why in the heck is she still being subjected to an unsafe environment! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

FrankD,

I also am confused with your posts. You have a tendency to change some of the facts from post to post, eg. the OM gun charge. Hope you are a LOT more clear with your attorney.

Best of luck

Criminal charges are pressed by the state, not a lawyer or spouse.

talked to lawyer and he said I will not be taking any test.....We are taking it to court.......I will be praying I did talk to WW today forthe first time in a month and a half...we talked about meagan and school it was nice and no one was fighting....she called 17 yr old son monday night and he let her have it.He told her that he wanted nothing more to do with her .he was upset with her ...He said maybe down the road if things work out .....she was crying he said ...she needs a dose of reality........well i got to go fror now my home pc is on the brink..got to get it fixed........thanks everone for your help...Frank

Hi Frank, that is good that your son let her have it. He shouldn't hide his feelings and I am proud of him for standing up for the right.

Why do you think your lawyer did not tell them before now that you wouldn't be taking this test? Didn't the judge agree to this?

Just wanted to let you know, Frank, that I am still around and am pulling for you, but I am on vacation now and finding time to get on H's laptop has not been easy.