No she never talked to her mother.her father she has not seen since she was 5........We got married when she was 22.She wanted to get married ..so did I but I was leary because I got hurt in first marriage.......PA is the state

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Raising the age of the minor who is subject to protection by the law. North Carolina and Pennsylvania raised the age of the minor—up to 16 years—who is subject to protection under the criminal unlawful sex laws. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/ovc/publications/infores/statutoryrape/handbook/find.html

okay now if I read this right .. PA law had a lower age for statutory rape prior to 1995 .. if this is so then you didn't do anything criminal -- right?

A few more questions. What was OM's felony conviction for and what are the charges currently pending against him? Did your lawyer present this to the judge? How did it seem to influence the judge? How old is OM? How old was his wife when the met/married? Was their daughter conceived prior to their being married? (In other words, is there some way to throw this back at them?) Have you or your lawyer talked to his XW to determine the cause of their divorce and any information she might have as to his character/fitness? I will probably think of more as I dwell on this...

Regards,

Brit's Brat

She is trying to make me look bad because she know what she is doing looks bad.....And she is doing this to prove to OM that she loves him..........I know what I did was wrong but I stuck by her through every thing and I bought her a new house.we traveled all over the states in a motorhome.she has seen a lot and was a good mother before this......I found out today that she took a test for the school for her teachers aid job that she quit this year.in march and called me to tell me past.....come to find out she did not........she had me wrapped around her finger........believe me.........she knew what she was doing............I was a fool.........now I might loose my Daughter.............Ain't life grand.........falling in love with someone to young....................2oo yrs ago this would have not been a problem............life sucks.........and i still love her........

EXCELLENT! Where in PA? (I am licensed in Ohio, but a VERY VERY VERY good friend of mine from childhood practices family law in the Pittsburgh area). Also, please see my next set of quesions...

Additionally, I used to work very closely with law enforcement...Do not let the threat of going to the police with the fact she was underage when you first had sex intimidate you. Even if they charged you, a good criminal defense attorney would kill your WW on cross examination...I would envision something along the lines of:

Attorney: Mrs. Frank, you are telling us the first time you had sexual relations with Mr. Frank, you were 17 years old?

Mrs. Frank: Yes, that's right.

Attorney: And it was not consensual on your part?

Mrs. Frank: At the time, I was a minor and didn't know any better.

Attorney: Now let me get this straight Mrs. Frank, you are telling this court that you didn't know any better and he used his position to take advantage of you because you were "of tender age." (That's a term lawyers like to use - they think it makes them sound smart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Mrs. Frank: Yes, that's correct.

Attorney: Now, Mrs. Frank, you and Mr. Frank eventually married, isn't that correct?

Mrs. Frank: Yes.

Attorney: And isn't it a fact that you were 22 years old at the time you married him?

Mrs. Frank: Yes, but....

Attorney: And, as I understand it, you left Mr. Frank for another man and lived with that other man while you were still married to Mr. Frank?

Prosecutor: Objection

Judge: Sustained (but that's okay because the jury heard it and once you throw a skunk in the jury box, you can take the skunk out, but the smell lingers....)

Attorney: Your honor the defense rests and respectfully requests that the jury be instructed that 22 years of age is considered to be several years above the age of consent.

Okay, so I was having some fun here at WW's expense. The fact is, she married you after the age of consent. She stayed married to you for many years after she was supposedly taken advantage of.

Regards,

Brit's Brat

<small>[ August 26, 2004, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Brit's Brat ]</small>

thats what i was saying.........If I was so bad why did she marry me..............I did not force her to do that ............I did not put a GUN TO HER HEAD............bELIEVE ME i TREATED HER GOOD...............This is the reason my mother said she will never come back to me......because of the age thing...now she told me 2 months after d-day that it was not an age thing..................

I am qualifying this by saying I am not licensed to practice law in the State of Pennsylvania and you should seek the advice of a lawyer licensed to practice in the State of Pennsylvania.

Frank, you need to really sit down with your lawyer on this....in just 5 minutes of purusing the Pennsylvania statutes on line, I found the following:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> § 3122.1. Statutory sexual assault.
Except as provided in section 3121 (relating to rape), a person commits a felony of the second degree when that person engages in sexual intercourse with a complainant under the age of 16 years and that person is four or more years older than the complainant and the complainant and the person are not married to each other.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This may or may not be up to date and the age referenced in the statute could be qualified by caselaw. If it is the current version of the statute, the age for consenting to sexual intercourse is 16.


Regards,

Brit's Brat

<small>[ August 26, 2004, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: Brit's Brat ]</small>

Frankd - Listen to Brit's Brat, what he is saying is very encouraging. Your WW is fighting with the only weapon she has; however, it turns out that weapon won't fire! Have your PA lawyer look into this so all your bases are covered but it sounds very good. I like the idea of a background check on OM and would highly recommend doing that, if you find out something that would be great ammunition to use the next time you are in court.

Brit's Brat correct me it I am wrong .. that's the current statute.. don't they have to use the statute that was in place when she was 17?

way2

It depends on the purpose for which they are using the statute. If they are using it for purposes of charging criminally, then yes, they would use the statute in effect at the time the "offense" took place - as near as I can tell, it would actually have been a lower age (14, I believe) at the time frank hooked up with WW - which is even better for Frank. If they are using it to discredit Frank in the child custody proceeding, WW's attorney might try to argue the higher age (16). A good argument would be that none of it is admissible in the child custody proceeding because which age for consent should applied is a moot point given that WW was over both ages - 14 and 16 at the time she hooked up with Frank. I don't know how the Pennsylvania court system is structure...in Ohio, where I am licensed, and in Texas, where I now live (I work for a large multinational), the Family Courts and their judges are separate from the Criminal Courts. It may be that the Family Court judge in Frank's case and his attorney don't know the actual age of consent and are assuming it is 18. Then, again, it could also be that there is more to this that you have to be a Pennsylvania licenses attorney to understand -the reason for my original qualification. I am merely offering my thoughts as ideas for Frank to present to his attorney. He should rely on his attorney for advice.

Brit's Brat

Hey Frank,

Could you give answers to my questions re: the felony OM has on his record and the charges currently pending against him, as well as whether your attorney has checked out the reason his first marriage ended and has the attorney talked to OM's XW to see if she has any relevant information?

Regards,

Brit's Brat

Duplicate Post

<small>[ August 27, 2004, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: Brit's Brat ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> as near as I can tell, it would actually have been a lower age (14, I believe) at the time frank hooked up with WW - which is even better for Frank. If they are using it to discredit Frank in the child custody proceeding, WW's attorney might try to argue the higher age (16). A good argument would be that none of it is admissible in the child custody proceeding because which age for consent should applied is a moot point given that WW was over both ages - 14 and 16 at the time she hooked up with Frank </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's what I thought .. and wondered why his lawyer didn't use it. If the age of consent was 14 (which I though it was lower prior to 1995 due to the snippet I posted here) then he's even more in the clear.

But they are trying to prove something quasi- criminally saying that he is in reality a sex offender, attracted to underage girls, and therefore cannot be trusted with D.

But even under the current PA statute, she was not underage (I worried about the earlier statute which could be used) - so they have no legal basis to assert that he is more a danger than any other father who has a daughter.

Frank - I can't see why your lawyer acted like they've got you by the b@lls if you have indeed told he/her everything .. it's a move your lawyer should have been prepared for and ready to counter.

way2

<small>[ August 27, 2004, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

OM was not married to lady he has child by.........He has gun charges in past .I heard he got pulled over driving with out a licence..a couple weeks ago........


Got a nother paper from my lawyer from her lawyer wanting me to take a polygraph test along with perv test......I think they are trying to make this into a criminal thing........This ain't about my WW it is about Meagan.......Now I think they are tring to use this....to see if they can use it against me for criminal........I am calling my lawyer monday and telling that if they want to bring criminal case against me go ahead......I ain't taking any test........put me in jail..............I can see in my WW eyes that this is all coming from her lawyer..........**** HIM.......

Duplicate post.

<small>[ August 28, 2004, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Brit's Brat ]</small>

Frank,

Please talk to your lawyer about whether any of this even matters given the age of consent in PA. That is a very crucial point, in my opinion. Your lawyer ought to be filing what's called a motion in limine preventing them from even bringing it up...

One additional thing...a gun charge - if its strictly possession and not another offense along with the gun charge (e.g., assault) or driving without a license the prior conviction(s)is/are not going to have any influence on custody - not relevant...Sorry.

Brit's Brat

Frank,

A few quick questions:

First, how does your relationship with your wife have any impact on your relationship with your daughter. If your wife feels that you are a threat to your daughter why is she not being charged with depraved indifference for leaving her under your care and not seeking a restraining order? I am not a lawyer, but would think that your daughter should be examained in order to determine the quality of care that you have provided her in the past. She should also be questioned about how the OM treats her. I would think that she is old enough to have some say as to who she would like to live with. If not, I would ask your lawyer at what age she can make that choice.

Second, your wife was the one who detailed a two-hour long sexual encounter with the OM within earshot of your daughter. She is living in an adulterous relationship and is leaving your daughter home alone at night in order to drive the OM to work. Would this not qualify as reckless endangerment? The OM is a felon that has been caught driving with a suspended license, which may be relevant to your case. Several people who know your wife have commented on how terrible her appearance has been lately. Could this be used as an indicator of her state of mind?

Finally, your home seems to be a much more loving and stabil environment. Your daughter calls you repeatedly and asks to come home whenever she is at the OM's house. She misses her mother, but does not want to go with her as per your prior posts. That, to me, speaks volumes about who should be granted custody. I do not know your lawyer, but he/she should be asking these questions and explaining their relevance to your case in my opionion. Are you shure that your lawyer is up to the challenge?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ........I am calling my lawyer monday and telling that if they want to bring criminal case against me go ahead......I ain't taking any test........put me in jail..............I can see in my WW eyes that this is all coming from her lawyer..........**** HIM....... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is not what you want .. it will follow you forever. Some states even want sex offenders to put signs on their lawns identifying who they are, you have to put this on every loan application, job application, etc. and it's also on a national registery ... there are guys like you who have really done nothing wrong who are now sex offenders --- and for those men and those who are actual sex offenders, to varying degrees, this pressure is intense, they can not live any where they want, any way they want and are always branded and shunned -- and there is a growing number of suicides is among this group.

YOU DON'T WANT TO BE THERE -- for this will mean in many cases NO contact* with D until she is an adult and can also mean that you are barred from ever seeing your grand daughters alone until they are adults.

You need a plan -- under PA law you did nothing that is criminal -- don't let them make it that way... there's too much to loose.

way2

*no contact means no phone calls, no letters, no cards, no emails, no inquiry -- NO CONTACT

<small>[ August 28, 2004, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

some states assign a lawyer to look out for the interests of the child in divorce and some types of death of one or both parents..

might it be possible or even a good idea to get a lawyer for D to look out for HER best interests?

Frank,

Bottom line, you are in a better position than your WW when it comes to morality. You have not molested your daughter, you do not have a record as a sex offender, and are not living in an adulterous relationship with a felon.

My wife was 17 and I was 24 when we started dating and having sex. Minors can become emancipated at 15 or 16 I believe, so what's the issue here? The statue of limitations has expired in any case, so she does not have a leg to stand on.

I do not believe that your lawyer is up to par. Are there any groups in your area that offer support and legal guidance to fathers seeking to gain custody of their children?