Hey everyone,

Tommorrow is my one day of the week that I get to call WW. I am very nervous about this call. I have been trying to decide whether or not I should ask her if she is still involved in her A. I think it is something that I need to know, but is it worth upsetting her about asking? She treats our R like taboo land when it comes to discussions. And I am part to blame for that, because when I first found out about A and her wanting a D, I pushed her really hard for a week or so. My bad. I know that me pushing her or asking questions causes her to be depressed, but on the same side, I think I should know if she is still in an A. so any suggestions?

You should be in Plan A, and assume that the affair is still on. You get to talk to her so little that you should stay on pleasant subjects.

Hopefully others will pop in here with some good advice. I am sorry that you are going through all of this.

I would say don't talk about the A or your M. Keep the conversation light and positive. I know from experience that continually trying to talk about the M when WS doesn't want to, helps nothing.

Just wanted to throw in that I can relate to your nervousness. I am supposed to be meeting my WW after work today. I am nervous as heck. I am trying to figure out a way to get myself mentally ready to be emotionally detached and positive while we talk about my WW favorite subject, DV.

It sucks when you have very little contact. You want so much to use that time to find out what's going on with the A and how they feel about the R. But you need to leave a positive impression and those subjects wont do it. I know easier said then done.

Call her from a bar with lots of background music and noise. Put on your most positive and upbeat "face" and let her know you don't have as much time to talk as you usually do.

If she begins to talk about the relationship, feign that you can't hear her, then make a little more small talk, then tell her you're sorry, but your time was limited today, and you have to go.

She'll be wondering for days what the hell you are up to!!!

Thoughts of you "moving on" without her may splash a little reality on her face, with positive results.

JMHO
SD

SD - I like that idea. Maybe instead of meeting with my W today I'll try that instead.

Chris gave me some big help with that last Friday (although I blew it over the weekend)

Anyways, I'll pass along his advise through my experience.

Smile, smile, smile, be positive, be confident. Smile for an hour straight befor eyou call or see her (motion creates emotion) Do a COMPLETE 180. Act like nothing is wrong and you have had the best day of your life. ACT IT !!!!!!

Act like the sun has shown on you all day, not a worry in the world. Don't talk relationship, don't talk sadness or you miss her or ANYTHING.

I did it on Friday. I saw such confusion on my wife's face. She didn't know what to do. She started complimenting me, then after I simply thanked her for the compliments, she started crying, "I miss you, I miss our family....." I just hugged her and told her that she would be ok.

I finished getting my son ready, and we left.

I felt SOOOOO good leaving there that night

(although the next mornign I LB'd BIG TIME)

Read ARK's stuff before your call, read it 5 times, over and over.....

Anyway, smile and be confident and Plan A your butt off!!!!!!!!!

Hoping -

I assume that since you are deployed you have a set day and time when you can call your W. Am I right? Since you are posting on this site I would also assume you have access to email...atleast AKO email. You can be in plan A via email and infrequent phone calls.

I would not bring up the A on the call. It would be hard not to. I'm sure it will also be hard not to express your hurt. I can't even imagine. This is a very cruel situation.

I'm so sorry you are dealing with all of this. You can make it through this and your M can survive. It's not hopeless. As long as you have love for your W and are willing to forgive her there's a chance.

If she happens to bring up the A on the call make sure you let her know you can forgive her for this.

Thanks everyone,

I do have access to email, and phones. I have tried to email WW every other day, and WW has stipulated that I can only call her once a week, for about 45 minutes. So she is running the shots on that one, because if I don't follow her rule on that, she just stops answering the phone, and then there is no communication at all, because she does not answer any emails. Yeah, it sucks being here. I am looking into my options for going home right now, but I still don't think that it is time for that yet. This whole thing is tearing me apart.

Hopingtofix -

The fact that she is putting restrictions on your contact with her seems so strange. She will only allow you to call her once a week. ?!??!?!?!

I'm confused by that. Tell us a little about what you talk about when you are on the phone. Did you know about this or have an idea about the A prior to your deployment?

Here's another idea. You don't know that she's not reading your emails, right? You can send her a sweet email stating your love for her and your ability to forgive her. She may not respond to it but it'll be there just the same.

I really think it's time for you to go to your company Chaplin and explain a bit about the situation. I would understand if you did not want to tell him all the details. Maybe they will allow you to come home sooner. I know this has been allowed in my H's unit while deployed in the midst of heavy fighting. You can't be doing a very good job over there if your world is falling apart.

Do you have access ot the books mentioned on this site? Can you receive mail?

<small>[ October 01, 2004, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: heroswife ]</small>

HW,

I am as confused as you are..
Here we, I will try to give the info as it happened.

Married 2000
NO problems in marriage, ok, we had little arguments, but we never even had 1 shouting match. Everything was great.
2002- WW started having anxiety and depression issues, guess they run in the family. I have never had any problems like that, so I suggested that she go to see a councilor. She went. Got on AD, and I thought everything was fine. Even asked her ALOT if she was feeling better, and she said she was. After that, I made it a point to ask her every now and then if she was happy, if everything was ok. The answer was always yes.
2003- Got notice I would be deployed for a year.
9 months in advance no less. We had plenty of time to talk about it. She did not like the fact that I would be gone, but understood, she said.
April 2004- I get deployed.
At this point, this is the information I have from her.

1 week after I left, she started an affair with OM from her work. WW had him living in our house even!!!!!!! I was informed in letters that she had met OM, but never told the extent of the R. OM is m, trying to D, has another R with another M
woman as well. WW does all sorts of off the wall stuff. Even puts OM on allowance (is a loser with no $, lost his last job due to sexual harrassment) using our money!!
I spoke to WW several times on phone during the next 2- months and she always seemed depressed, so I wrote her a letter stating that I wanted her to get into some more activities that make her happy, and be a little more active, because she sounded depressed. I thought it was because I was gone. Imagine my surprise when I get this email from ww that says that she took that as a dear john letter!!! Confused the hell out of me. I called her up, and all of a sudden, she "loves me, but is not in love with me" and is considering a D. I convinced my unit to send me home for a month, oops, gotta go, I will finish this in about an hour or so....

Ok, well to start with, I guess I dodn't need to be nervous about the phone call. WW is not answering phone now.........

So, anyways,
I got to go home for 1 month. The first night I was back, (WW picked me up from airport) I was informed of the affair. I suggested mc to see if we could patch things up. I should mention, that my unit is very aware of what i happening. I have spoken to my chain of command, and the chaplain. It was one of the people higher up that introduced to me to this site. They have been very supportive, and I can never be thankful enough to all of them! So when I got home, (took a week) I had already started in on some of this material. I even sat down with my wife and we read through some of the basic concepts together, her a paragraph, me a paragraph. Then we took the EN questionairre (sp?) The only thing that WW said was shortcoming was conversation, and I have since made that up. I would also note that there was awhile there where I thought that we not have any children, WW wanted them, I did not, In my letters home, before I knew about about of this, I had told her that I had changed my mind about that and did want a family. That of course, just confused her. The other thing I learned was that back when she was going to counciling for her depression, she was tentaviley diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but she never followed up on that. Now her mood swings were nothing short of amazing. MC strongly suggested that before we could start to fix our R, she needed to get on proper medication for disorder. THat was a nighmare. Then MC suggested that she stop seeing her OM, and she left MC. I had to beg her to come back to finish that session. After that day, she moved out of the house for the time that I was back and stayed with OM. She has had several serious episodes of depression, and has said some very awful things to me that a H should never have to hear from his W. She confuses the H@@@ out of me though. When we spend time together, like we went to the fair, she had a blast, acted like there was nothing wrong. We also went garage saling, and several other activities. I did screw up on some things though. There was a brief period where I considered not letting her live in the house while I was gone, I know I pushed her way to hard, to many deep conversations. I tried to fix something in thirty days that will take years. I know that now, I was just a mess! Well, about 2 weeks in, she served me with D papers. She is using the same laywer that OM is using to try to get his D! I had to cut her off from our money, because she was spending it like crazy on OM, and that pissed her off, she could not even fathom why I did it. She asked her parents why I would not trust her!! But when I left, she took me to the airport, and told me that she was very confused, and when I said goodbye, I told her that she did not have to return it, but that I loved her, and she told me that she loved me too. When I got back overseas, I checked our email, and there was a letter in there, that she had not sent(i have access to her email) that said that when I get home, it is over, and that the laywers can handle the D. Then a day or so later, I got a email saying that she would only be available for me to call her on friday mornings, for 1 hr. And that this was her way of saying STOP, back off, stop pushing so hard. So here I am, not pushing. She has been to see the Dr. several times, and he is trying to get a diagnosis for her to get her stabalized, but that is going sooo slow, and I don't know what good it is doing. She is going to C, as well, for her disorder, and she is going to the church C, her parents and her decided that would be best due to the churchs beliefs in marriage. But I know she still is seeing OM, and that he plans on marrying her and having a family. I have even seen the letters, much to my dismay. I have no idea what her thoughts are on that, because all I ever got for answers from her were, "I don't know" or the blank wall stare. That is where I am. I haven't a clue!! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated and prayers as well.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.....
Ever want tobeat your head against the wall!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> What she is doing makes no sense to me!!!!!!! And she just blows it off!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hi Hopingtofix,

I'm currently deployed to Afghanistan and have 7 more months left in country...

My W and I have been rebuilding our M for several years now and are doing great.

My only advice to you would be to NOT try and discuss your marriage or relationship issues while you are deployed... I was deployed to Kosovo two years ago when we were about 6 months into our marriage counseling... Our MC suggested that we "take a break" as it's almost impossible to try and work through everything when you're 7,000 miles apart.

If you can get a compassionate reassignment, I'd try to get it...

Good luck and let us know how things are working out for you...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Hey RIF,

Where are you at right now? I am at BAF! When you were gone to Kosovo, were you in a plan a?

Talk about a small world... I'm at BAF too....

hopingtofix,

I realized that I never answered your question...

I was in Kosovo from September 01 - April 02. My W and I had started MC in April 01. I didn't find the MB website until after I returned in May 02.

I took our MC's advice and did my best to not talk about any relationship issues or A issues while I was deployed. I tried to only talk of light, "happy", things when we would talk on the phone.

For me, having e-mail was great... but it was also a double edged sword... It's so easy to "read into" something that you read over the e-mail, and I fired off a few flamers to my W before I took time to really digest what she was saying... and each and every time, I ended up "eating crow" for sending her a harsh e-mail.

Try not to "read into" anything that your W says to you, either by phone or e-mail. I know it's hard, but until you can get home and actually be with her in person, it will just drive you nuts trying to figure out what she's saying. Take her words at face value, don't worry about what she says she's going to do... only her actions count...

I found MB right after I got home and it was really good for me to see that I wasn't the only guy in the world that was dealing with these issues.

We had some rough spots after I got home, but we both became stronger and more connected as the months passed by. We started back with our MC and worked through the book Torn Asunder by Dave Carder... I posted here and learned about "plan-A"...

For us, my W didn't really start responding to me until she felt "safe" in that I wouldn't lose my temper and "blow up" with her when we would talk about her A's... Plan-A really helped me focus on creating a "safe" place for her to share her thoughts and feelings with me.

Talk with your CofC and see if you can get a compassionate reassignment... Dealing with an A is hard enough just by itself, and if you throw a deployment in on top of it, it's even harder...

Semper Fi,
RIf90

Hey Rif,

Thanks for talking. That is good advice about not reading into her mail to much. Course, she is not responding anymore, and the last time I tried to call her, (she set up what time and day I can call her, said she would be home) she did not answer the phone. I did not LB and blow up at her for not being there, just sent some flowers, and an email about some of the things I've been up to, and some of the simple household questions I was going to ask her when we talked. I know she read the email, but she still did not respond.
I wish I could just say that I would go home and make things right! But she has served me with divorce papers, and the only thing keeping that at bay is the fact that I am here, and she can not divorce me. And when I did go home all of Aug.) all she did was run away. I am not sure how to or what to do with that. I know that as I am gone, OM is filling her EN, and if I go back, I might get to fill some of those, but if she just runs away again, and continues with D, what chance do I have? So here I wait, in limbo. WW whole family supports me, as do all of her old friends. But she is in severe FOG land. She has isolated herself from anyone that even comes close to suggesting that she try to stop this whole thing, everyone but OM, who is pushing for a M between them.(that is, if he ever gets his own D).
I sent her my plan A letter today. I was very careful not to include anything that was a LB, but I have a feeling she will not respond in any way to that either. She just won't let go of OM yet..........ARRGH

Hoping -

At this point my worry is for you. It is very stressful being deployed, plus going through all of this stuff with your wife.

I really would like to see you go home and move into your home, and let your wife avoid you, or whatever she is going to do. That way you could practice the MB stuff a little easier.

Of course, she may divorce you, as she seems to be very much addicted to the OM.

If you stay where you are, I would suggest that you start reading all of the information here, and work on changes in you.

Not answering your emails, and only a phone call once a week (maybe) is going to be a hard thing to forgive. I realize that your wife is ill, and understand bi-polar disease, but it will still be hard for you.

You and the others over there are in my prayers. Hang in there, and we will help you figure this out.

Hoping,

I really don't know how you're going to be able to "Plan-A" with your W when she won't even read your e-mail... it sure sounds like she's really bent on ending the M and trying to get with the OM.

I agree with you that at least while you're over here, that she can't divorce you... so that may work to your favor.

Bi-polar individuals usually go through severe manic stages where they do things that they normally would NEVER do... then eventually, they hit a depressive state... It sounds like your W is in a very high manic state right now, thus her actions with the OM.

Is she taking any medications for her bi-polar disorder? Do you have any family that live close enough to talk with her and try and get her to see a doctor? I think that once your W is on a good program for her bi-polar disorder, that the "thrill" of the OM will fade, and then you may have a chance to reconnect with her.

You really should protect yourself and any love that you have remaining for your W. If you have decided to stay throught the rest of your tour, then I'd try and focus on YOURSELF... and try not to worry about what your W is up to.

Don't write her, don't e-mail her, don't call her.... because every time that you write her or e-mail her or call her and don't get a response... your mind will tell you that the "worst" is happening... You already know that your W is spending time with the OM... and that she's not willing to return your e-mails or receive your calls, so why torture yourself by expecting her to reply.

I'm sure that you've given some thought as to whether or not you want to still fight for your M... If you've decided to continue to fight, then you need to protect yourself so you still have some love for your W when you re-deploy home next April/May...


Have you found any Christian guys to talk with over here? I know that there is a Promise Keepers group that meets on Wednesday nights up at the Engineer Camp... you might want to check that out...

I'm praying for you... and for your W...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Hey RIF & Bel,

WW is starting to see phychiatrist. Her first meeting was on 28th aug, than she has her followup today...will see how that goes. They have her on AD and sleeping meds right now. She also is going to IC on 6th. So she is seeing a dr, or at least she is scheduled to see them. I will follow up and see if she actually went.
It isn't that WW is NOT reading the emails, I KNOW she is at least looking at them, she does not EVER respond to them. That gets old, but I know she IS looking at them. So because of that, I hesitate to not write her. But yes, it does tear me up when she does not respond. I have a feeling that it is because she has no idea what to do with how I am acting, and is on the defense against me? I wouldn't know. Anyways, I am going to fight for my M until she DRAGS me, kicking and screaming the whole way(or plan a'ing however you want to look at it) into the court room. That is the only way I would give up our M. Is if she ends it. Herself, not me. Yeah, I know she is bent on ending M. I just have to show her it is not worth it. I have been told that people with mental disorders almost always lose everything before they get the help they need, much like an alchoholic. An A is also an addiction (according to this site and others), and when a person is addicted to something, they normally must lose everything as well before they break of it. I am hoping that WW does not lose me, or that I don't lose her, before she figures out what is going to happen if she leaves to be with OM.

hoping,

I must have miss read your post... I thought that your W wasn't reading your e-mails at all. Sorry.

If you're pretty sure that she's reading your e-mails, then I'd continue to send her chatty, informative e-mails telling her about your day and so forth. Try to stear clear of any relationship talks or deep questions... Just keep it informative and interesting.

Now, here's the HARD part.... don't expect ANY return e-mails from her. If you get one, then great, but if you don't, then don't let it bother you. Remember, Plan-A is about making yourself better... you have no control over your W so don't try to "educate" her or tell her what she should or should not do.

If you get an e-mail that is hurtful to you, try not to send a flamer back... just ignore it and don't say anything.

I know this is hard for you... hang in there. I hope that your W will get on the right meds and will level off soon.

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Hi RIF,

Thanks. Just posting on this board helps me out so much, and it helps to talk to someone who is also deployed. I did get a sort of response back from my plan a email. It was rather amusing, if you could call it that. WW told me that she was not going to have anything to do with our finances at this point, because I took her name off our utilities back home. Only thing is, her name was NEVER on them.....she also told me she got the small gift I sent her. Did not thank me for it, just said she got it. At least she responded. So we play the rollercoaster for awhile. Oh boy. Take it easy.

hoping,

Glad that I'm able to help a bit... that's probably the only reason that I still post here at all.

Are you in any sort of counseling with any of the chaplains here at BAF?

Semper Fi,
RIF90

hoping - Glad you are posting here. The folks here are great. Everyone pitches in with wonderful support and advice.

I think you have the right idea, making her drag you kicking and screaming to D court.

In the meantime, do like RIF says - send emails telling her about your day, and stay out of relationship talk.

Hi, hoping. Sorry you're going through all this. There's never a "good" time to go through it, but having your hands tied the way you do, and being at war, is definitely sucky. Beyond unfair.

But you are not alone. Been going on since the beginning of time. And you will be ok...no matter what.

hoping...your W is sick, weak. Like we are fond of saying here, her brain has been abducted by aliens. Don't listen to the ugly things she says are "the truth" that she spews out of her mouth. Like loving you but not being "in love"--ever. It's crap. They are the lies that she believes. It's psycho-rationalization. It's the sickness talking. Best to not talk to her about such relationship things at all. Consider her for now, at best, a very sick, screwed-up best friend. Not your W. Consider her almost demon-possessed.

And realize that alot of this is not up to you to "fix"...ask God to help in those areas that are beyond you. You do not have total control here. Keep giving it over to Him when you feel you are at your wits end. When you are given a choice and have to make a decision, make sure you stay in His will.

Good that you cut off her financially. You love her enough to no longer enable her and her addiction--no matter how mad at you it makes her. It's a loving thing to do. "Tough love". A boundery setting. It teaches her that she cannot abuse you. Wonderful bi-product is it will put a definite dent in her relationship with the free loader OM.

You mentioned Plan A...all the way to the courthouse. Is there no place for Plan B then?

Have you read SAA? or just the principles on this website?

Stick close with your christian counselors. You have 3 possible recoveries going on here. One requiring your own personal IC, her own (and her panel of specialists), and the marriage counseling--which seems to be far off in the future yet. They may not all happen at the same time...but these all require their own specialized team of counselors and help. But one thing is for sure, without inviting God into the marriage and into your hearts, neither of you are going to get the peace you need to not just survive, but also thrive.

Lil,

I don't know if there is a place for plan b at this time. I agree about her not being the person I loved anymore. It does suck. I have asked god, many many times for help, and continue to do so. I have ordered SAA, but it might be a month or so yet before I get it...mail really sucks overhere sometimes.
I know I don't have any control, and to be honest, I don't know if I ever want any. Part of my reasoning is that she has to make the decision to keep our marriage together. I will do everything I can to show her what I have done with myself, but M is not a thing you do by yourself. Eventually she does have to show me she wants to give it a try. She has not made any indication yet. She just says "I dont know" and continues to see OM. I know that right now, she is upset with me because I offered collateral information to her dr. and she was told about it. Appearently, she was not being all that honest with them. So now I am the bad guy again....oh well.