Awhile back, someone on MB referred to "the average Joe earning about 50,000." Where do people get these jobs? Although my H earned more than that before he lost his job time before last, he earned far less on his last job. I have two master's degrees, graduated summa from a very good college, worked at least part-time for about 25 years, have a professional position - and I don't earn nearly that much. Yet a friend of mine was bemoaning a job offer that her 22 year old son got that was only a couple of dollars an hour less than what I am earning.

It seems that everyone else is earning far more than my family members have been able to find. After the house payment, fuel, and electric, I have only a couple hundred dollars a week to pay everything else, including food for as many as seven people. Even if I had no debt whatsoever, that just isn't possible. I own one of the smallest and least expensive houses for many miles around, and I can barely fit my kids into it. Yet according to the poverty guidelines, my kids do not qualify (barely) for reduced price school lunch.

I think it is impossible to live as a single parent unless you are very rich or very, very poor. Money is probably a major reason for remarriage - it has certainly allowed my H to live a life of comfort whether or not he happens to be employed.

I think it depends where you live. I make $50,000 and live in a mobile home. Houses here in California are too expensive. An average 2 bedroom, 2 bath home here is $350,000.

I even took in a roommate to help with living costs. I don't eat out at all, and still never have any money. I do have 2 boys in college, which is costly.

I so so thankful when my boys got old enough not to need daycare. That was a real killer.

Money is a hard one... alot of it depends upon your location, but regardless, even in your location, your income should approximately match your cost of living. Some towns are really bad about this though, Seattle, Denver, New York, alot of California are all examples. Now, what can you do about it?

Do a job search for what you currently do, and specify your region of employment. See what they are offering for new hires...if it is extremely out of whack with your current salary (and this is quite common, as long term employees tend to fall behind on the earnings scale because new hires expect 'current cost of living wages' and the raise percentage for older employees doesn't keep up with the cost of living rate)... you can then request a review of your salary vs the current market. If you do this though, it is smart to already have been out in the market a bit, placing applications and doing some interviews. Sometimes, just the threat of losing a valuable employee will wake an employer up to your value, but, you must be prepared to walk, that is the key. Think of it as a new opportunity in your field, or even explore a new area.

All in all though, you have to find a way to balance it all out. If you are looking at a job that you would be miserable in, it will probably take about double your current salary for you to feel like it's worth it. Then, scale back according to your interest level. I know, sometimes you just have to make money though, no matter how crappy it is. If your xh is living in such a 'lap' of luxury, even because of his new wife's income, perhaps it's time to head back towards court. I don't know ANYTHING about the process, or what the conditions are, but I know you can get some educated advice in this forum...but, I don't think it's ok for fathers to dodge work, just so they can pay low child support. His income support for your children shouldn't place you in the lap of luxury, but, he should cover the necessities for his childrens lives, and then you will have to pick up the rest. Perhaps its not so much your lifestyle, but maybe your kids are trying to live outside of their own means?

I hope this helps you out...I am a big time money worrier, it gobbles me up alot of times, and I am one of those guys that makes $50k+ ... but, just so you know, it doesn't make it really any better, all of this hurts just as bad.

Nellie1,

25 years part time is hard to build a career.

Do you have a plan to build your carrer ?

I make more than that but it is not what I earn but what I spent determine my financial health.

It is hard when 1 income got split up for 2 household. It requires ajustment. Either increase your income or decrease you expense.

-rh-

<small>[ October 10, 2004, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

Nellie,

I think I just read where the national average income is $32,000.

I am a single mom (joint custody so no child support) but I live in a low cost area, the U.P. of Michigan.

I make $37,000. at my job a year but have used my home equity wisely. I have two rental houses which pay the mortgage on my house. I also took out a home equity loan to buy a piece of water front property on a little island instead of buying a car...and I drive a 1990 Chevy blazer, the trade off.

I would say my DD and I are poor right now, but someday things will get a lot better. I chose to buy the rentals instead of taking expensive vacations because I thought it would be an investment so we would have money later on.

I buy all our clothes on ebay at a fraction of what they would cost at the stores, all the big name brands too.

My older sister and brothers are very successful in their careers making 6 figure incomes but they live in places that eat all the money up. They also have to keep up with jones's so they are just as broke as me.

I think most people are having a tough time financially right now. At least every one I know is.

Like California, the Northeast is very expensive. For me, taking in a boarder is not an option - not when I am sleeping in the living room because the bedrooms are full.

I did have a well-established career with the government, even though I worked part-time during much of it. Unfortunately I gave it up to move with my H, and six years later when I needed to get back into it, my skills were not only out of date but new job opportunites were way down. Obviously it was a mistake to leave, as I would be earning well over 60K now even if I had never received a promotion, but hindsight is 20/20. I went back to school and got a master's in a related profession.

My salary is more or less in the same ballpark as others in my profession - I could earn a bit more if I worked closer to the city, but then I would have to factor in commuting costs, which are almost nil right now. Of all the people I know working in comparable positions, not one of them is a single parent - some of them are single, but childless.

I have gone over and over my spending to see where I could cut back, and there really is no place. When the fairly fixed expenses of mortgage, heat, and electricity take up all but $200 a week, there isn't much to play with. I buy hardly any clothes for me or for the kids - luckily when you have as many kids as I do, people tend to offer you outgrown clothes, and did even when we were not poor. My kids have to eat, and that costs money, no matter how economically one shops.

I don't think there is much hope of getting more child support, not when my H is unemployed again. He was planning to take me to court to try to reduce the support after he lost his job again, but I haven't heard anything about it recently.

I don't see any other options. My children complain about how little I am home now. My H only allows them to visit at most one day a month, so it's not like I could get a second job on the weekends while they are not home. It will be ten years before my youngest finishes high school, by which time I will be approaching retirement age, not that I expect to ever be able to retire. Then I could move anywhere I want, but it's going to be hard to find a new job when I will be over 60.

Nellie,

How about the equity in your home?

Any possibility of using some on a down payment on another bigger house, then renting out the small house you are living in?

Or how about borrowing from a 401K to purchase another house, even a duplex where there is two available rental incomes coming in?

If your new home is large than, than you could possible bring in a border there also.

You can play around alot with equity, also with a 401K. This is what I did to buy my rental houses, and like I said they now cover the mortgage on the house I live in, plus the mortgages on the two rentals.

The key is to make sure you can get enough rent with as little overhead such as major repairs as possible.

I am better off now and will be much better off in the future than I was before I cashed in the equity I had in my first home. I could barely buy food back then.

Sometimes, Nellie, the answers don't look the way we think they will. Let's see, 10 years until your youngest graduates high school, that must mean they are all in school right now.

Have you considered opening your own in-home daycare? You will be amazed at how easy it is to 1)get licensed (if it is required in your area), and 2)get kids. A couple of my friends, one a single mother (she is the OW, not my friend anymore - just clarification in my own head), have done just that, and are very successful. I know, 2 master's degrees, and doing daycare doesn't seem right. However, there are benefits.

One of the greatest benefits is that you will be home when your kids get home from school. No more calling in work for a sick kid, feeling bad they are alone on school holidays or inservices. Plenty of time to get the meals ready for dinner and/or lunch, get the household chores done so you can have great family time at night after dinner. I know when I have a part or fulltime job, we eat out more simply because I don't have as much time to organize my menus, shopping, etc.

Another benefit is a lot of states have reimbursement programs for people who do in-home daycare and have a low income level. For instance, in Idaho, if you qualify for the food program, you get (I think) $0.90 per child per meal in your home, and then less for snacks. That really adds up each month, to $200-400 dollars extra, from the state.

You can deduct gas mileage (picking kids up from school, dropping them off at preschool), kindergardeners count as full-time, even though they are gone 1/2 day, as well as preschool kids. Since you already have lots of kids, you have lots of toys. You just have to get organized, and you will be off and running!

Just an idea. Throwing it out there. And don't berate yourself for choices you made in the past. I do that myself, and then I tell myself that I made the best choices in the circumstances I was in at the time, with the information I had at the time. And that is what you did. Too bad we can't see in a looking-glass, just briefly, when we come to those forks in our roads of life - to just get a hint of what would be the best way to go . . . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Spidey

I like this idea of day care too.

What about health insurance Spider, is there any programs for that, if kids aren't covered by their dad?

This is a problem for some single women who must provide medical insurance. Or would there be some type of state program to help with this?

If income is low enough, many kids qualify for the state-run program. In Idaho, it is called CHIPS, Child Health Insurance Policy Service, or something like that. They pay for doctors visits, and dental.

It is of course possible to get on a program as an individual, but it is costly, and not good coverage (that is what my family and I are on).

I hope somebody fixes our national healthcare problem soon!!! Almost time to vote!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SS

Thanks for the suggestions. I really enjoy my current job, and I don't think daycare providers around here earn anymore than I do. My older kids are old enough to babysit, so daycare, fortunately, is not an issue. I have some, but not a lot, of equity in my home. Hopefully it ten years I will have a lot more.

Nellie -

How many children do you have? I only had 2 when a was on my own, and they ate alot.

Hopefully your husband will get a job. What is his problem?

Nellie1,

It is not how much we earn but how much we spend determine our financial health.

We have only two options ... reduce our expense and/or increase our income.

Yes, that is the real problem w/ DV ... specially when one of you choose to gave up career. I gave up mine when I was trying to salvage my M. Now I have to go back in track for career. I could go back to my field in computer but I am not into it no more. I am pursuing my second master to get my MFT license. I know I would take bottom salary when I am done with it. However with my experience and background I am certain that it wouldn't take long before I am catching up. It takes time to build a career.

Have you look into other job that could use your experience and woud pay better ?. If the salary ceiling is too low ... then you have to decide.

-rh-

Where I live unempo is 3.2%. I make under the national average in salary. And I have a 30 year mortgage on a 47 year old 2700sq ft. home on 3/4 acres. Paid 110,000 for the house 2-1/2 years ago. Live in a college town right down the road from a nice elementary school. Trees everywhere on the side of a hill. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Like Redhat said either income goes up or spending goes down. If you lived in my neighborhood you spending would go way way down.

C.

shmaley - Where do you live? I'm moving there.

Oops, double post.

<small>[ October 12, 2004, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: believer ]</small>

LOL... You can move to my neighborhood anyday we need more classy people here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I live in Fayetteville, AR..

And if you like Motorcycles.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We have the fasteset growing bike rally in the world going on here. It's called Blues Bikes and BBQ. over 100,000 peeps showed up this last month for the 6th annual. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That's more than the population which is about 70,000 with the students.

C.

<small>[ October 12, 2004, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

Hey, I love Arkansaw(how do you spell that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Schmaly you dog!!!

Nellie, it'll get better. Pray for abundance, that's what I do sometimes.

Do you know anyone skilled at folk magick? And no I am not kidding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I used to read alot of Suzy Orman (sp) books and they gave me some really good ideas about how to cut costs and come away with more expendable income.

You could put your kids to work and have them buy their own clothes, treats etc? If they don't already.

Ms. N,
I wonder if you realize that with this question, you’ve wandered into the murky realm of politics? LOL Your question frames what is a major political issue. The fact that more Americans aren’t identifying this issue as you’re describing it speaks to me of the ineffectiveness of our political aspirants in communicating with us; or equivocating to us! LOL

Has it occurred to no body that a standard of living that has long be the envy of all the world is rapidly disappearing along with quality employment we have all taken for granted since for ever? Has it occurred to any of us that maybe we, the American workers, are not the problem? In fact, most people that I know are working harder and longer then ever before and getting less compensation for their effort instead of more.

It’s amazing. I read posts here that suggest the solution to the problem is to work the system. LOL Not work with in the system mind you but to instead find the cracks there in that we can take advantage of to get ourselves a better cut. Is this what we’re reduced to?

If it were a business we were talking about and productivity was up while profits were down, some one would get fired! Yet, that’s exactly the situation that most Americans find themselves in while those responsible for managing the process are all getting to keep their jobs! So tell me. What’s wrong with this?

Hummm, the cost health care is up, the cost of energy is up, the cost food and shelter is up, the disparity in our deficit of trade is growing like cancer and our national debt has about to trebled itself in less then four years but we don’t have to worry! Do you know why we don’t have to worry? Because our president has told us so and we all know that he would never lie!

coach

Bravo, bravo, bravo Coach!

And then bravo some more!!!

I agree, Coach. The disparity between the few very rich and the huge number of very poor, and the disappearance of the middle class poses a huge threat to the health of the American political system.

I have six kids, two of whom are adults, and one in college. My kids buy most of their own non-essential items. Moving out of state would be very difficult, as I would have to get a judge's approval. I spent a long time trying to locate within the state, and found that house prices really did not vary as much as I expected. You can either live within 40 miles of the capital, or within commuting distance of the huge concentration of colleges, or in the Berkshires. Nowhere is it cheap. It is extremely rare to see a house on the market for less than $300,000 anywhere near where I live.

Nellie -

I hope you don't take our suggestions as meaning that we think you are not being thrifty. I raised my kids alone for the first 12 years, and I know what a constant struggle it is. It's very, very hard.

If your husband only sees your kids once a month and is not working, maybe the court would let you move. That is the only thing that I can see that would permit you to raise your standard of living.

There are a lot of federal jobs - check out the navy website www.donhr.navy.mil. You can put your resume on, and check out the places you could go.

Saw a TV program over here in the UK tonight which described how a couple who do not work and who have eight kids have a state benefit income of £37000 ($55000). Their house and car are also free and state provided as are their utility bills.

So in the UK having lots of children seems to be a fairly sensible career choice.... not many of the working slobs I know have $55k left after tax however many children they have.....

Just a coment to say that stuffs odd over in the UK too.

I've heard horror stories about people who were not allowed to move even an hour away, because it was to a different state. I don't have much hope that a judge would let me move. My H does see the kids weekly for dinner. Most weekends he is too "busy" to have them visit.

It seems to be almost impossible to raise children in this country on one income, and I know it is far worse when you have to pay for day care as well.

Nellie1,

None of us could bring the kids out from Bay Area (must livin' within 6 counties only) w/o court approval. Even exW & I would agreed and allow it to happen, we would violate the divorce decree. It is terrible but that was one of the bargaining chip that I gave up. But I love livin' here and won't move anywhere else. In your case ... the judge would allow you to move out of state as long as for the best interest of the kids. Better paying job for you, better schools for the kids, closer to relatives, and so on. I wouldn't discount that possiblities ... H is a weekend dad anyway and I assume that he doesn't go to school/kid's activities either. So H could be a holiday dad and the court most likely would grant you.

It takes a village to save M and it takes communities to raise childeren. Ask around, people are willingly to help out ... most people feel it is a privilege to be able to help you out. On the nite that I went to school, I ask for help to bring my 2D home from practice.

Yes, it is hard to raise a kid by yourself anywhere but it is even harder if you have no family/relative that live close by to help out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Again managing your career is the key to earning good wages.

-rh-