In love with another man..need help! - Marriage Builders® Forums

I have been married for 10 years and have two kids, I have been madly in love with a man that I worked with for more than 5 years and have known for over 1o years. I truly feel he is my soul mate and I really want to be with him and I know he feels the same for me, the problem is, is he is still married in a horrible relationship and so am I. Mine isnt that horrible but i am not in love with my husband. I really dont know what the right thing to do is, no matter how hard I try to love my husband it just isnt there. I sometimes wish that there was a way to end my marriage but I worry about my kids, they are only 8 and 6 and I dont want them to hate me If i leave their dad...Really what do you do when you are so in love with someone and want to be with them but there are all of these obstacles..Is this a horrible thing that i am experiencing, should I run for the hills and stay away..My heart hurts so bad and I love this other man so much I cant stand it anymore..Does anyone have any suggestions?

Yeah- stop letting the other man meet your needs and you will be amazed at how much love you still have for your H. You have chosen this life. You chose to let your heart wonder to a married man while you are married yourself. You need to change your job, and move or something, get away from this man, you are no good for eachother. No good at all. You are married, try to save that marriage if you can. If you can not then do not leave for this other man. You both had wondering eyes during your own marriage, how long do you think your actual relationship will be?????

Was the Om married when you 2 met? Is that why you didn't marry him - from your post it looks as if you met him b-4 you married your current BH.

I must say as long as you continue contact w/OM you won't be true to trying to love, honor and cherish your current husband. No marriage can survive a third party..It just pulls you and pulls you down and you can't let yourself fix what's broken.

Keep posting we are here to help you .

Do not leave your husband for this other man. You will be sorry for the rest of your life. I agree with T in the Road, you hava allowed yourself to have these feelings for this other man and he has allowed himself to have them for you. It is all wrong and is a fantasy. Not reality, as you have with your husband. The fantasy world is easy, reality takes work and dedication.

Have you been having a physical affair with this other man?

Your children will never recover from you leaving. Never. You need to do some research on this type of thing. See the damage that is caused when adults do what feels good instead of what they should do. You need to forget this other man and rebuild your relationship with your husband.

(edited because I didn't realize you had said you'd been married for 10 yrs.)

ng

[ November 16, 2004, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: naivegirl ]

First step: As hard as it seems it is, you need to be honest with your Husband and let him know what is happening. It is only fair to him to be able to make an informed decision himself.

If he is like me he probably has no idea that he is not meeting all of your needs, and is not fully aware that you are unhappy. The affair is a construct of yours to get your unmet needs met. I am willing to bet that your H is willing to learn how to meet these needs, but as long as the A is continuing without his knowledge, you aren't even giving him a chance to meet these needs.

The A is a fantasy world, and at some point that fantasy will come to an end, and there are only three options where you will be at then.

Option 1--you are divorced, and your kids are suffering from it.

Option 2--you have figured out a way to fix your marriage with your H help, and things are much better.

Option 3--you mistakenly think you can replace your marriage with a relationship/marriage with the OM, and find out that you are even more unhappy. These relationships only work about 1 out of 100 times.

So do yourself a favor. Find a marriage counselor, and have them help you come clean with your H. Point him to this site, and you will probably be amazed at what changes he can make once he realizes the depth of feeling you have about this.

Keep posting, there is a lot of help here. Good Luck.

[ November 16, 2004, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: trippnbillies ]

I appreciate such a quick response...I met this man before I was married I started working for the company he owns, It started with just eye contact, he had been married only a year and a half when his married was already bad but she had just had their only child.I watched her be very cruel to him and their son, he loved his son too much to leave his wife and I would never have asked him to leave her.Two years later I got married and he cried so bad the day before..It is sad that two people that love each other so much met too late. My husband and I had a bad relationship from day one and probably shouldnt have ever gotten married...but I was close with his parents and I think just the excitment of getting married is what led me to marriage..I no longer work for this other man but we still talk on the phone more now than ever. I love him so much that I really dont know what to do and I feel bad that I do not love my husband but we are in two different directions with wants and needs. My husband is very selfish and we have had endless discussions about our relationship but nothing has really made it better. My mom says I need to stay with him for the kids and maybe she is right but is that fair to me or m y husband for that matter. I am so alone and confused there is no one that I trust enough to share this with so you guys out there are it!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by naivegirl:

Your children will never recover from you leaving. Never. You need to do some research on this type of thing. See the damage that is caused when adults do what feels good instead of what they should do. You need to forget this other man and rebuild your relationship with your husband.

ng <hr /></blockquote>YOu know I think this is NOT entirely correct. PEOPLE SHOULD NEVER STAY IN BROKEN MARRIAGE TO KEEP THE CHILDREN FROM BEING FROM A BROKEN HOME. I agree with doing everything possible to save a marriage when there are kids involved, BUT BLINDLY stating that all marriages with children should never be dissolved IS WRONG !!!!!!!!!!! Children would rather come from a broken home THAN LIVE IN ONE !!!!!!!!!!1

It is possible that your relationship will not work. It is also possible that there is untapped potential, and you don't know yet how good it can be.

The only way to find out is to start some counseling, and be open and honest with your H. And, end the A. If OM is unwilling to leave his W, you don't even have a false hope of making a fulfilling relationship with him. Even if he were willing to leave, you have only a 1/100 chance. Relationships built on lies and deception don't have a very long shelf-life.

During an affair, the reality of a marriage just cannot compare with the fantasy world created inside of the A. Your M, and your H may not be beyond repair. However, as long as the A continues the M will probably seem like a used Chevy compared to a brand new Beamer.

Bottom line is you need to get off the fence and start doing something to make your life better.

Lemonman, you are wrong about that. Studies show that as long as there is no physical abuse in the household that children are better off with a mom and dad whether they have a good relationship or not.

Set that point aside. Passion has not done everything possible to save her M, in fact she has done nothing to help her sitch since the day she was M. She M her H under false pretenses and, I for one, feel sorry for the man. He thought on his wedding day he was getting her whole heart and commitment, instead he got a half [censored]*d effort.

Passion, you have not given your H a chance at all to fill your needs. You want to be fair? Move, go with no contact for 2 years, if you and the OM still feel the same way, good luck to the two of you. I seriously doubt that if you give a serious effort to save your M.

P.S. Back to the children. I, for one, would die for my child. Going through life in a loveless, but stable marriage seems a much smaller price to pay for the well-being of my son.

Thank you lemonman, and to everyone...I am taking in all of your comments and suggestions..I feel that staying with my husband isnt fair to him..Things with this other man are different than most other couples..I know you are all saying "yeah right" but we started as friends and I honestly can say he is everything i have always wanted in a man, but unfortunately we met a year too late..I adore his parents and was there when his mom died from breast and brain cancer it was like losing my own mother..We didnt see or talk to each other much after that but I thought about him everyday..Then one day while I was at work he called to see how I was doing..I just love him so much there really arent enough words too express it, when I see him my face light up and so does his and it isnt a physical thing, it is way deeper than that, I truly believe he is my soul mate...I do not want to hurt my kids cause I am the sole provider with them, my husband basically does nothing with them or for them..I am married but like a single parent..I often wonder what life would have been like for me if I didnt get married..I dont wish my kids away by any means they are my life but I really want the love that I deserve and it just isnt with my husband, we have tried to talk about things but I guess after all of the bad things that have happened between us I just cant get past it and I honestly can say that I was never truly IN LOVE with him..I loved him but not IN LOVE...I feel so bad and you guys are great for listening!The other thing that is very weird is that if I think of him real hard the phone will ring and it will be him or if I am thinking of him a song that he would play for me would come on the radio..little things like that as stupid as it may sound..to me our signs of fate! Maybe I am crazy but it was like we were meant to keep coming back to each other.

I just cant get past it and I honestly can say that I was never truly IN LOVE with him..I loved him but not IN LOVE...

That about sums up the mantra of all WS.

I am not sure what WS mean..I am sorry for not following the internet language..I know all of you say be honest with my husband...unfortunately unless I want a death wish that is not possible.He is a very jealous person and that would send him over the edge and I fear something very bad would happen.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by passion1_87:
..Does anyone have any suggestions? <hr /></blockquote>Be honest with the lives you touch. Tell your husband about the affair. He deserves the truth about someone he is sharing his life with. One note of caution*** If there is any chance of your H being violent with you ... take precautions.

You cannot continue to live a double life. You are neither here nor there, not in or out.

Tell your husband, and have the MM tell his wife. Everyone needs to know.

Anything less than honesty in this situation only serves to diminish your integrity further.

Start with honesty. Always.

Read "Torn Asunder" by Carder. Decide which type of affair yours is. There is nothing *NOTHING* unique or especially wonderful about your affair. Affairs all end badly because they are dishonest.

So, shine the light of truth on your affair ... then you will have reality to deal with. When you are dealing with reality, the correct choices may often be clearer to you.

Pep

A WS is a wayward spouse.

So, are you and OM having a physical affair, or an emotional one, or both?

[physical means sex or touching of any sort that you wouldn't do in front of your spouse/boss/child]

Noodle

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bear04:
 Lemonman, you are wrong about that. Studies show that as long as there is no physical abuse in the household that children are better off with a mom and dad whether they have a good relationship or not.

<hr /></blockquote>SHOW ME THESE **** STUDIES THEN!!!!!!!!!Give me the journals so that I can trek to my medical library and pull them. This is just an excuse for guilty parents not wanting to get a divorce when they are *****miserable in their marriages and lives.

I can speak from personal EXPERIENCE here !!!! I can tell you that life would have been much better for me and my brothers and sisters if my MOM and Dad would have gotten divorced. THEY STAYED TOGETHER FOR US in a loveless marriage. We lived on egg shells waiting for the next argument or threat of Dad or Mom leaving. We all played teh dysfunational part so that there would be "peace" at home. We played our role as pawns for our parents affections. We all did what we could so that MOM AND DAD COULD STAY TOGETEHR. becaseu we thought that would haev made us happy. What a complete load of *******!!!!!!! THERE WAS no Physical Abuse in my family. . I want you to ****show me a reputable source that advocates staying in a loveless marriage for the sake of the children. Ofocurse any quack with a PH.D can make this suppostion, but I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THIS THINKING ! WAKE UP !!!!!!!!!!! The kids KNOW the truth. You don't fool anybody.

God this topic pisses me off sooo much. I CAN SPEAK FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ON THIS, so don't tell me about "studies".

[ November 16, 2004, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

Passion,

It seems that you have made your decision. So...you need to tell your husband ASAP. And...you need to be honest with him.

He is going to be stunned and devastated. And..he may even want to work on the marriage. Are you going to refuse himthe chance to do that?

WOW.

Uhm, good, you should be afraid...you should be even more afraid of your husband finding this out under a 'spur of the moment' type situation.

Your rationalizing your own fears...oh well.

By the way, thanks for being such a sacrificial noble person, and marrying a person you loved, but weren't in love with, and having sex with that person, and giving birth to that person... and, if your husband is such a terrible bump on a log, why would you even think your kids would care if you left him? I mean, gosh, he doesn't work, he doesn't care for the kids..I mean, he just stays in bed all day and doens't move...

Give me a break. Perhaps your more worried that your kids will discover that you are an adultress. It really sucks when the fantasy gets put into reality.

If you read the info on this site and also others about affairs (other than ones dedicated to keeping A's alive) and the testimonies of those who have been through A's you will notice something VERY strange! Virtually ALL wandering spouses have very, very, very similar stories. It is almost a script. Their marriage had problems--uh, whose doesn't--they didn't talk directly to their spouse about it and INSIST that the problems be solved FIRST, before they began a relationship outside their M. The WS slowly starts giving their all to the affair partner while taking it away from their spouse and all the while re-writing history to the tune of "We shouldn't have gotten M, I was never really in love" etc. All rationalizations.

I could go on and on. The affair is a fantasy world that becomes addicitive. It is like a perpetual state of romantic love because none of the every day realities of life intervene. It is exciting, stolen time, passionate because you don't have to clean up after them or rely on them to pay bills or whatever goes with family life and REALITY! Did you know that less than 2% of relationships that begin as an A last?

You are currently in the fog, and DEEP.

You owe it to yourself, your family and the OM to read up on this area. Read this site, Surviving An Affair and also Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass so that you understand the dynamics of your situation.

As Dr. Phil says, you need to earn your way out of your M and you are FAR, far, from that. By giving all your love and attention etc. to the OM you are guaranteeing that your M won't work. REad, read, read the posts of some FORMER wandering spouses on here for their perspectives and experience AND those of us Betrayed Spouses so you will come to true consciousness of what you are doing to your H, your kids and yourself in your life of dishonesty.

this one is for noodle....In the past many years ago when i worked for him we were very physical and lately we have just been talking on the phone and when I have seen him it has been very passionate kisses and hugs, no sex.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by passion1_87:
He is a very jealous person and that would send him over the edge and I fear something very bad would happen. <hr /></blockquote>I always wonder about a woman who knows she has a jealous husband... and she STILL messes around behind his back.... and she still has children with him....

What do you want from this site?

We are pro-marriage... if you are here to find a way to comfortably continue adulterous behavior... forget it... we will not support that.

So, what do you see as your viable choices?

Pep

PS... "WS" means "wandering spouse" ... a polite way to say "infidel".

If you read the info on this site and also others about affairs (other than ones dedicated to keeping A's alive) and the testimonies of those who have been through A's you will notice something VERY strange! Virtually ALL wandering spouses have very, very, very similar stories. It is almost a script. Their marriage had problems--uh, whose doesn't--they didn't talk directly to their spouse about it and INSIST that the problems be solved FIRST, before they began a relationship outside their M. The WS slowly starts giving their all to the affair partner while taking it away from their spouse and all the while re-writing history to the tune of "We shouldn't have gotten M, I was never really in love" etc. All rationalizations.

I could go on and on. The affair is a fantasy world that becomes addicitive. It is like a perpetual state of romantic love because none of the every day realities of life intervene. It is exciting, stolen time, passionate because you don't have to clean up after them or rely on them to pay bills or whatever goes with family life and REALITY! Did you know that less than 2% of relationships that begin as an A last?

You are currently in the fog, and DEEP.

You owe it to yourself, your family and the OM to read up on this area. Read this site, Surviving An Affair and also Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass so that you understand the dynamics of your situation.

As Dr. Phil says, you need to earn your way out of your M and you are FAR, far, from that. By giving all your love and attention etc. to the OM you are guaranteeing that your M won't work. REad, read, read the posts of some FORMER wandering spouses on here for their perspectives and experience AND those of us Betrayed Spouses so you will come to true consciousness of what you are doing to your H, your kids and yourself in your life of dishonesty.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by passion1_87:
Things with this other man are different than most other couples..I know you are all saying "yeah right" but we started as friends and I honestly can say he is everything i have always wanted in a man, but unfortunately we met a year too late.<hr /></blockquote>Yeah right.

Do you know how many times we've heard this come out of a WS's mouth? We're different, we're soul mates, we LOVE each other. Trust me, there is nothing special or unique about your sitch or your R with this man.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I just love him so much there really arent enough words too express it, when I see him my face light up and so does his and it isnt a physical thing, it is way deeper than that, I truly believe he is my soul mate <hr /></blockquote>It's called a fantasy.

Do you honestly think that if you were to be married to this man that you would not end up exactly as you have now? You are in an A that is forbidden, exciting, with no responsibilities, worries, giving each other the "best" side of one another. How can that possibly compete with bills, kids, homework, chores, cleaning, etc?? Then factor in the real possibility that if he can cheat WITH you, he can cheat ON you, too- leads to an R with very little hope.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
...I do not want to hurt my kids cause I am the sole provider with them, my husband basically does nothing with them or for them..I am married but like a single parent..I often wonder what life would have been like for me if I didnt get married..I dont wish my kids away by any means they are my life but I really want the love that I deserve and it just isnt with my husband, we have tried to talk about things but I guess after all of the bad things that have happened between us I just cant get past it and I honestly can say that I was never truly IN LOVE with him..I loved him but not IN LOVE...<hr /></blockquote>You are re-writing history so that you can justify your behaviour and lessen the guilt you will eventually feel. Of course you are going to say that you never loved him- what kind of horrible person would cheat on someone they love? You would not be able to live with the guilt.

I'm sure that you did not have a gun held up to your head when you married your H. I'm sure at one point you must have loved him.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />The other thing that is very weird is that if I think of him real hard the phone will ring and it will be him or if I am thinking of him a song that he would play for me would come on the radio..little things like that as stupid as it may sound..to me our signs of fate! Maybe I am crazy but it was like we were meant to keep coming back to each other.<hr /></blockquote>This is truly creative fog-talk at its best!

albw

I am going top issue an apology for my tone in the post above. I have very very strong feelings about this and I think that post triggered something in me. I want to aplologize for the tone of my post. I still stand behind the premise that MARRIAGES SHOULD NOT STAY TOGETHER FOR THE SOLE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN. People here define "stable" as not hacing abuse and that in my mind is pathetic. Children are soo much samrter than we as adults want to give them credit for. They know the truth. We sure did as kids in my family.

I agree with anne. Passion, you are almost reading word for word from a script for WS (wayward spouses).

I also agree that you have to earn your way out of a marriage. It takes work. If you don't put in the effort you will have many regrets later.

If you do work hard, and it doesn't work, then you know it wasn't meant to be and no regrets.

But, keep in mind. What you are doing now is avoiding work. You need to put some effort (and your H too) into this Marriage.

Lemonman,
I get what you are saying about divorce. BUT--Steve Harley always used to say to us: wouldn't the ideal to be in love with the parent of your child? If that is possible, don't you owe yourself and your child to try for that?

I think that is what we are talking about here--making the very best effort to work on the M to get to that point. I can tell you that I would divorce my H if he cheated again, because after all the hard work and his witnessing my pain if he could do it all again, there is no hope. AND I would like my D to grow up knowing that you don't tolerate that kind of treatment from your spouse.

Also, you point out the atmosphere in your childhood home--that is EXACTLY the type of M that if not worked on should end in divorce. There is research that says that kids are ok if there isn't fighting and abuse. So the parents aren't blissfully, passionately in love--the kids are ok with that and want their parents together.

I think each situation is different, but I truly believe that if two people desire it enough and can get emotionally healthy enough to work on themselves and the M, there is every opportunity for the worst marriage to be saved, improved and last.

Just my $.02. BTW, sorry you grew up in such a situation. I wonder how these childhood wounds you carry have leant themselves to your inability to reunite with your W? Have you read "Getting the Love You Want?" There is a discussion on cgar's thread on the Recovery board. VERY interesting!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Things with this other man are different than most other couples..I know you are all saying "yeah right" but we started as friends and I honestly can say he is everything i have always wanted in a man, but unfortunately we met a year too late.. <hr /></blockquote>Wow, you've always wanted an adulterous liar and cheater? Doesn't sound like too good of a catch to me. Pretty sad that this is what you consider a perfect man to look like.

Of course things are so perfect with this man. Who has to take care of you when you are sick, worry about paying the bills, dealing with problem children - not OM. You only have the good stuff with him, none of the real life issues to deal with. That is why everyone is telling you this is a fantasy relationship.

Lemonman,

I looked for about 15 seconds.. so, I don't think you've really tried to educate yourself in any fashion... more like, your own childhood sucked, (welcome to the club) ... so your opinion is fact.

http://www.hec.ohio-state.edu/famlife/divorce/effects.htm

That should simplify it for you.. it flat outs states, children in broken homes do 'worse' in general, in many facets of life.

Now, that is oversimplifying things...of course, certain things are just overlooked in a blanket statement like that. Some people you wish would divorice...but, in those cases, I think you can also just look at them and say, quit being so selfish, and grow up. That usually will solve most marriage problems that I hear about. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Kids are better off with a mom and dad as long as there is no abuse in the home-period. OK-now where did I read it-Dr Dobson? Dr Laura-OK I'll see if I can find it.

Wow! Well I didnt come on here to upset anyone, I am trying to lump the last 10 years into these posts..My husband does work but he is one that likes to do things all for himself and I am not suppose to do anything except stay home and take care of the kids..I work two jobs and shuffle my kids around all week long I have very little time to myself and do not expect anyone to feel sorry for me..I married my husband when I was very young and as I said in the beginning I think it was all of the excitment of getting married that I really didnt look at the big picture..I am 34 years old now and I guess things have changed for me as far as the way I see life. I am not looking for an easy way out of my marriage what I am looking for is what to do when you have tried counseling and talking and all of those things with your spouse and things may be good for about a month and then they go right back to the way they were before...Where everything is about him and not me or his kids..His own parents even told me not to marry their son..We do not argue all the time it is only once in a while...We basically dont talk much or do much together..He never wants to do anything outside of the house and it gets depressing..As far as this other man he didnt ruin my relationship that was rocky before he came back into the picture I am just confused about the feelings I am having right now! Again I am sorry if I offended anyone I am really not a bad person just a lonely one!

This is how history is re-written. Never loved him....terrible marraiges...awful wife...she's mean to the kids...she's mean to her poor dear H....

You could copy these words straight out of Harley's book...doesn't anyone see the irony. Each A is soooooo different from everyone else's A. To the WS their A is real love and the wayward partners are 'meant to be together'.

I agree with Lemonman you are hurting your children by staying with your H if you say there is no love there. Get out and save them the pain of what you are doing.

But if you want to give your marriage a chance...and I would think you do considering you are here and the name of the site is MARRIAGEBUILDERS.COM...you wouldn't come here if you just wanted to announce to the world your proof of a need for a D, right? Wouldn't make sense.

You came here because you love your H and you love your children and you do not want to hurt them more then you already have. Even if your H doesn't know about the A he has an idea that you are withdrawn from him and he probably blames himself for that.

Give you marriage a chance. That chance starts with you ending this A and exposing this to your H.

Good luck.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by passion1_87:
I am not looking for an easy way out of my marriage what I am looking for is what to do when you have tried counseling and talking and all of those things with your spouse and things may be good for about a month and then they go right back to the way they were before<hr /></blockquote>None of that will improve you M while OM is still in the picture! OM is meeting all of your needs, and that is stopping your very own H to be able to meet them for you.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />We do not argue all the time it is only once in a while...We basically dont talk much or do much together..<hr /></blockquote>Of course you don't! You are giving all of your extra time, energy and emotion to your OM.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Again I am sorry if I offended anyone I am really not a bad person just a lonely one! <hr /></blockquote>I was lonely in my marriage, too. I did not go outside of my M to fix that- I told my H I was lonely!!! Have you told your H this?

albw

So, Passion...do you plan to tell your husband about this at some point, or are you and the OM simply going to disappear in an ether of love one night?

ANd if you do tell him and he says he wants to work on the marriage and make things better...what will you say?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RookKev:
 Lemonman,

I looked for about 15 seconds.. so, I don't think you've really tried to educate yourself in any fashion... more like, your own childhood sucked, (welcome to the club) ... so your opinion is fact.

http://www.hec.ohio-state.edu/famlife/divorce/effects.htm

That should simplify it for you.. it flat outs states, children in broken homes do 'worse' in general, in many facets of life.

Now, that is oversimplifying things...of course, certain things are just overlooked in a blanket statement like that. Some people you wish would divorice...but, in those cases, I think you can also just look at them and say, quit being so selfish, and grow up. That usually will solve most marriage problems that I hear about. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Rookkev:

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you about this. Yes, my OPINION OF WHAT I WENT THROUGH IS FACT. Quite honestly I don't really give a rat's ***what you think <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That study you posted should be qualified with this: Despite this general finding across many studies, there are important qualifications of these findings. Overall, the children are more alike than different. Amato (1994) reminds us that average differences do not mean that all children in divorced families are worse off than all children in intact families. In Figure 1 (p. 145) in THE FUTURE OF CHILDREN (1994) Amato presents an illustration of how much the children in both groups overlap. Thus, while there are average differences there are more similarities than differences.

We can all AGREE to DISAGREE then. I can only speak from MY own experiences......In MY LIFE, we lived in a big house and had all the "material" things kids want. My parents were not abusive to us, they just didn't love each other, we saw that. They sure tried for our sakes but you can't fake "love" and we all "Knew" why they were together.

Hey Rookkev: IF YOUR WIFE BETRAYS YOU YET AGAIN!!!!(and I am sure that I can dredge up some study showing that cheaters are likely to cheat again) will you stay married for your childrens sake? DOn't give me any BS studies, I want to know what you would do???? when/if this happens again.

[ November 16, 2004, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

I apologize for upsetting anyone I came this site for some other opinions and I sure did get them...I am sorry if what I wrote was text book drama but that is just me being honest about the way that I feel and as far as the other man is concerned you all act like I see this man everyday we only Speak on the phone once every couple of weeks there is no relationship and I do not run off with him every chance I get..He is just someone that I wish I had in my life and I am not going to apologize for that..Life is what it is and I made my choices and I realize that I am just trying to figure out why I am flooded with so many emotions...I have to go home now and I will check in with everyone tomorrow. Have a good nite and thank you!

Here is my take on your situation, and I may be off track but...

You were a young woman in a PA with her boss. At 23 or so you knew he wouldn't leave wife/son and you wanted more than occassional relationship. So, you had a guy that was that type of guy who wanted to marry you and have a family. Great, didn't matter then if you were in love with him. Nope, married him while you were in love with someone else (someone you knew you could not have). This may have also been to try to force MM to leave his wife for you - or maybe revenge against him because he wouldn't.

Your marriage never worked, because you never tried to make it work, you were still and always pining away for the MM.

Frankly, I'm sure your Husband has always felt you didn't really love him - which is maybe why he hasn't any desire to do things with you or provide for you ......you never tried to meet his needs and probably never opened yourself up to having yours met by him.

Question #1. Whats changed now. Did OM finally leave his wife? Promises he now will? Or maybe you've done the marriage thing, have your kids, and now you've gotten that out of your system?

Question #2. Did you ever have NC with the OM during the course of your marriage and for how long? when was the last time you were physical with OM?

Passion,

Your message line said "please help." What kind oif help did you want? Did you want people to tell you that what you feel - and what you are DOING - is all right? Sorry...but you're not likely to find a lot of affirmation here.

I'll ask you again: if your husband says that he wants to work on the marriage and make things better, what will you say? Are you willing to give up the OM under any circumstnaces?

Andrew...

If it were to happen again, I would probably divorice her... given the fact that I know now, it isn't from me, or lack of effort. In her affair, I accept some of the burden in the way I was running our marriage and household. Don't misinterpret that into me accepting responsibility for the affair, just the place I led my family and my wife. I know now that I am leading our household right, so, it would be completely on her, and I would have to move forwards. But, you know what...we love each other. And our kids know we love each other...and even then, I would love her as I was divoricing her. Love just ain't enough. It's when people stop being selfish, and childish, that things really change. That is what your children notice.

I was in that abusive home, that split home..you name it, I was hit with it...and that not ok. I would agree, sometimes, it's best to divorice... I'm not making a general statement about people staying together at all costs, I'm actually not defending either side... you wanted a study, I gave you one done in a college, so hopefully without a religious slant to it.

And, I bet you could provide a very interesting study on repeat offenders. It's hard not to see how it would happen again and again, especially given the way many BS abuse their FWS with the affair.

Andrew... really, I don't have an issue with ya. I promise. I just saw that post and I was like well, I've heard of those reports too, so I will find one. (Even though I seem to be coming at you in a negative fashion over and over, I see that too, so I will try to chill!)

Rook,

I think your post should have been aimed at Lemonman. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by AndrewA:
 Rook,

I think your post should have been aimed at Lemonman. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Yes Andrew , I think that was directed at me indeed. Thanks for the honesty in your repsonse Rookkev. I was just curious about what you would do. There isn't really any best solution regarding divorce and children. SO I am gonna leave it at that.

OOPS! ROFL.

Man.. just get soo distracted at times.

Lemonman,

I won't disagree with you. You are right. I shouldn't have made it sound like a blanket statement. I do realize that there are situations that cannot be fixed. However, I was just trying to make her think about those kids a little more. She brought them into the world into an already struggling marriage.

I came from a home where my mother probably should have left. But she didn't. And looking back, I am very thankful. I remember even asking her to leave. I told her I would rather live in a tent with her than in the situation we were in. And my situation wasn't even nearly as disfunctional as my H's and even yours.

My H's mother was married and divorced several times during his childhood as was his father. And his sister recently left her 5 children for another man. So I guess my outlook is a little jaded. Her husband (and this was her third husband and they had been married 16 yrs.) that she left wasn't perfect but I know he loved her. I spent hours talking on the phone as he cried and cried. Boy, I wish I had comforted him more and had better words of advice. He lost the battle to win her back. And now she is married to husband #4 and I think she regrets it all now.

Let's just do as you said - Agree to disagree.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />There isn't really any best solution regarding divorce and children. <hr /></blockquote>I think this is true. Every situation is different. I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to start such a ruckus. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

ng

I apologize for upsetting anyone I came this site for some other opinions and I sure did get them...I am sorry if what I wrote was text book drama but that is just me being honest about the way that I feel and as far as the other man is concerned you all act like I see this man everyday we only Speak on the phone once every couple of weeks there is no relationship and I do not run off with him every chance I get..He is just someone that I wish I had in my life and I am not going to apologize for that.

There are heated discussions here all the time. It's no big deal.

Okay, get this - the infrequency of your contacts with the OM (other man) makes it easier, not harder, for you to see him as your perfect soulmate.

You can pitch that stuff about you think about him and some song comes on the radio. Cosmic forces are not pulling you together. Give up on that adolescent silliness. You're seeing what you want to see.

I'm sorry to trivialize your situation, but you feel this incredible pull for OM because you've kept yourself in this euphoric "in love" phase by depriving yourselves of each other.

Every relationship goes through phases. Yours, with the OM, is in the initial "in love" phase, where the person is idealized and you cannot imagine being without him.

No relationship stays in this phase. Yours with OM will not.

Let me remind you how badly you are preparing to hurt your awful, selfish, thoughtless husband. What you want to do to him is to deliver what will probably be the most crushing loss of his life. What you need are the maturity and guts to tell him about the affair, and to learn with him that marriage IS work. The idea that "if it's work, it's not right" is a stupid, stupid fantasy. I was my wife's "soulmate" once, believe me. We couldn't stand to be apart. For a year, we lived 600 miles from each other and talked on the phone every night. Now, she's got herself a new "soulmate". This is somebody she believes is her true match (whoops), and she's willing to overlook him abandoning his child and pregnant wife so she can have him for herself.

The best thing for you to do is give up your affair and lovingly help your husband understand that your marriage is about to fall apart, and that without big changes FROM BOTH OF YOU, it will not survive.

And making a halfhearted attempt where you're all the while just looking for an excuse to divorce your husband is not earning your way out.

If you and your husband get it together, you will feel about him the same way you feel about OM, and you'll fall to your knees in gratitude for not having destroyed his life, thrown your children in to chaos, and given up your beliefs.

If you leave, tell me this - what makes a marriage special? Staying together when it's easy, or staying together when it's hard?

Your affair is not unique or different or special. It's just another garden variety romantic affair. And they're all poisonous. Most affair partners are in love. That doesn't make the affair any less nasty.

GC

Passion
Have you ever asked yourself why the sort of man who you state is everything you want would be

A man who deceives his own wife
Who strings another woman along for many years
Who is quite willing to have a relationship with a married woman

Is this really what you want in a man. If you could go back to when you were young and single, would these qualities really have been those that you were looking for?

I admire the fact that you are here and at least thinking about where you are in life. I admire that you have treid to talk to your husband about your problems and attended counseling with him.

However, if you have not shared with your husband your preoccupation with this other man, I doubt that any counseling would really fix anything. I know, I have been there. My H and I attended counseling while he was hiding his affair. We got nowhere. The counseling after the affair being exposed did, because then we were working on the real issues.

If you are in love with this other man, then you owe it to your husband to tell him so that he can decide if he wants to remain in a marriage with a wife who is not in love with him, but loves someone else. In the end, you are not protecting him from hurt by not telling him, he probably knows something is missing in his marriage and can't get his finger on it. I can tell you that when I found out about my Hs long term affair, apart from the hurt, etc.. the chief reaction initially was one of relief. I had known there was something up, I had thought I was crazy. I also felt a glimmer of hope. Hope for me. I did resent the fact that I had grown older while they had continued an affair and felt robbed of the years that I may have had should I have chosen to leave my marriage.

Unfortunately a lot of what you are saying we have heard here many many times. If there was a book about what WS say when firs coming here, you are posting straight out of it.

My advice?
Read everything on this site (Not just the forum, read the info section especially the infidelity section). Tell you husband. Stop contact with other man and try to fix you marriage. (you don't really know whether it can work with your H as by your statements It sound like you have been preoccupied throughout the marriage by this other man). Get into some counseling, Individually and mrriage counseling. I agree with Dr Phil's statement that to leave a marriage you need to earn your way out. Then you will know that you did everything you could to make it work.

Good luck. This is not easy
C&S

Passion,

Please read the following article: [b]Before you have an affair with a married man[/b]. This article was written for single woman, but I think you can also benefit from reading it.

Passion, the 'in love' feelings you currently experience for the OM (Other Man) is just temporary. As another poster has said, â€œin loveâ€ is just a phase in any relationship. In a 'normal' relationship where there is no third party or any betrayal involved, this 'in love' feelings isn't a problem. And as the relationship progresses, the chemicals that cause this feeling eventually 'dry up', and if the relationship is to continue, then another kind of love takes it's place. A committed, stable affection that can grow deeper (hopefully) throughout the years. This is the real glue that holds a relationship together for the long term. And it's based on trust, truth and respect (among other things).

However, in an affair, biology takes the reins. Both the WS (Wayward Spouse) and the OP (Other Person) are riding that chemical wave. Physical attractiveness isn't usually an issue because the affair started through an emotional connection. A connection that's surprisingly easy to make when the WS is in a vulnerable time in the relationship with the BS (Betrayed Spouse) or in an unhappy marriage. But an affair with another person is NOT a solution!

Why?

Because a strong relationship cannot be built on a foundation of lies. The WS and OP have to lie to themselves, each other, and everyone else in order to be together. This is why most affairs end within 6 months after being exposed. Why only 3% of people who started their relationship as an affair end up getting married and why 75% of those marriages fail.

Please listen to the people around here, you need to stop contact with the OM and give your M a chance. This is a MARRIAGE BUILDERS site! Now go and do the right thing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Edited to add:
Passion, I understand your feelings for this man (I've been there, done that), but sometimes feelings is irrelevant... Real love is all about actions...not feelings. You need to do the right and honorable thing now and give your husband and marriage a chance. You also need to expose this to your husband... You owe it to him to make his own choices. But maybe this will be a chance for both of you to rebuild and work on this marriage. Don't lose your values, self-respect, sanity etc. because of these feelings you have for another man... I can promise you, if you have NO CONTACT with this man, those feelings will eventually wears off and fade.

Suzet

[ November 17, 2004, 04:35 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

Passion, I see LowOrbit has send you this post on another thread (I put the link here in case the post get lost between all the other posts on this board.) LowOrbit is also a Former Wayward Spouse. He has been in your shoes as well and he knows what you are going through.

I hope you will come back and post soon,
Suzet

NS: I see this post has jumped to a new page. I've send you another post on the bottom of PAGE 3

[ November 17, 2004, 05:18 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

Passion

You have recieved a great deal of good advice. Your problem is you are not listening!

Here are the facts, as far as I see them from what I have read:

You ARE in love with your husband. You just don't feel it at the moment because you are clouded by fog and denial.

You are building your H up as a 'bad person' in order to justify your affair.

YOU are the one in the wrong here. No-one is going to feel sorry for you, because there is NEVER justification for an affair.

You say you married 'very young', too young to make a real decision. I married at 20, and resent the implication that I did not possess conscious thought. A poor excuse.

The OM is a nasty piece of work. He has manipulated you for all these years, and he has you exactly where he wants you. He will not leave his wife for you.

If you carry on like this, you will one day snap out of the fog and you will be filled with the worst pain and regret you have ever experienced, as you realise you have lost your H, the man you truly loved for the last 10 years.

Your H is hurting right now. He probably suspects your A, or knows something is wrong and thinks it is him. He has a right to know that it is not him, it is your own self-centred wishes that are causing the problem.

He will be torn apart when he finds out. But, the sooner this happens, the better.

YOU NEED TO END CONTACT WITH THE OTHER MAN. You will not regret it. But, if you do not do this, you will regret destoying your life, your Hs life and your children's lives for the sake of a fantasy.

Its time to stop being spineless and start litening to the people on this site. You have an opportunity to save your marriage, keep your family together and enjoy a fulfilling relationship with your husband. DONT WASTE IT!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ks2001:
You ARE in love with your husband. You just don't feel it at the moment because you are clouded by fog and denial.<hr /></blockquote>Passion, I think ks2001 is correct on thisâ€¦ You must just take a long, hard and honest look into yourself and you will realize the love for your husband is still thereâ€¦ You are just clouded and very confused by your feelings for this other manâ€¦ If you don't love your H, you wouldnâ€™t stay with him for the past 10 years and had children with him.

Passion, please read the following post I've send to another thread a while ago. It will give you some insight and better understanding in what you're going through:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I think a lot of FWSâ€™s in recovery have the wrong idea about love in a M.

A while ago, Iâ€™ve read the following on a website link:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Falling in love is obviously not confined to infidelity. Most contemporary marriages start out with romantic love. But, therapists say, couples have to grow up and understand that "feelings of love are neither steady nor constant but travel in natural cycles," as Abrahms Spring puts it. "If your relationship doesn't live up to your ideas about love, the problem may be not with your relationship but with your ideas," she writes.<hr /></blockquote>People and especially WSâ€™s often confuse real, stable & mature love (which can only be obtained through a long, committed relationship like a M) with the first stages of immature, puppy love when people â€œfallâ€ in love and when hormones and chemicals are running highâ€¦ These are 2 completely different types of love (mature & immature) and many people often expect to always have those â€œin loveâ€ feelings for their partner. They think something is wrong with the M if those euphoric feelings wears offâ€¦ When the WS then get involved with someone else and experience those early stages of love & feelings again, they start to say to their spouses: â€œI love you, but Iâ€™m not in love with youâ€. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I thought the same thing after my EA ended, but I have learned and grown and realized that I was indeed â€œin loveâ€ with my H, but in a more mature way.

To explain this better: Dr Phil once said there is a difference between â€œfallingâ€ in love and â€œbeingâ€ in love... He said spouses donâ€™t stop to love each other, but instead, love transforms and develops into something more mature and stable. To use his exact words: The partner in a long & committed R became â€œthe soft place to fallâ€. This is so true. My H is indeed my soft place to fallâ€¦ He is the only one who knows ALL about me â€“ he knows all my strengths & weaknesses, he knows the beautiful parts about me and the ugly parts; he knows me on by â€œdownâ€ days and my â€œgoodâ€ days â€“ but he still loves me and excepts me just the way I am, with ALL my faults and flaws. This is wonderful and in some time during recovery most FWSâ€™s will realize this!<hr /></blockquote>

[ November 17, 2004, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

"...What do you do when you are so in love with someone and want to be with them but there are all these OBSTACLES"

Hmmm.

So,a husband,children,marriage,CHOSEN life are now obstacles because you can't have your way and be with the adultering other man(OM).

One thing you WILL NOT get here passion,as someone else mentioned,is any sympathy for making the choice to be involved with a married man and also committing adultery.You can justify and rationalize away,trying to make it seem as though you are missing out on a great experience with this OM but you know what,it's all fantasy because YOU already have a life that YOU committed to: to your H,marriage and to your children.You CAN'T backpedal now,after all these years and being involved with this OM all these years and now say,"Oops".Your children did not ASK to be put in a situation where their mother has put everyone in jeopardy and is on the cusp of creating a HUGE pain fest.

WHEN YOU HAVE CHILDREN THEY ARE THE FIRST PRIORITY.Not some homewrecking OM,not your hormones,not sex,not fantasy,not scheming and plotting to be with someone you have NO RIGHT to be with.Same to be said for the OM.

You know what the word selfish means right? A blatant disregard for other's feelings;caring supremely for *one's self;believing or teaching that the chief motives for human action are derived from gratifying one's own pleasure,etc.Obviously you did not really take into consideration your H's and childrens feelings because,as it always is,it's all about YOU,the wayward spouse(WS) and what THEY want.This is why,Dr.Harley points out,that WS's lose their families,homes,jobs,respect,dignity and integrity because it's all about the "high" you feel being with this OP(other person) which,again as someone pointed out, DOES NOT LAST(infatuation).

The only reason it has lasted as long for you is because it's still a dark and dirty little secret that you carry around where no one but the two of you know and you keep it going by phone calls,chance meetings,e-mails,little here and there actions that do not add up to a real and long lasting relationship.THIS infidelity you have going on has not had the chance to stand up to real life.

There is no doubt that you are confused and upset with what is going on,that's a given BUT if you want our advice,people who have been there done that many times over and are in varying stages of recovery or even getting to a divorce,you need to make another very important decision: do you want to try and save your marriage and all the benefits that could happen from that? Or,do you want to take a chance on the OM,risk it all for a potential? I am sure,based on your strong feelings for this man right now,that you may just want to gamble and say,I wan't to be happy! No matter what.

And,you could make that decision,but know that relationships born from affairs have an abysmal success rate,about 3% in marriage and of those,the failure rate is high.Your odds are slim to none.And this site is rife with the fallout of those very people and their loved ones who have witnessed first hand the destruction and monumental pain that ensues with this decision.

Passion,if you want help to end the A and make your marriage the best it could be for you,your H and most importantly your children,stay with us.We are a tough bunch but it's because we believe so strongly in marriage and in stopping the painful effects of adultery on our families.A lot of what you hear is "tough love" but this wouldn't be the great,supportive site if we all patted each other on the backs and approved of bad behavior.

O

[ November 17, 2004, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]

PASSION= I too come from a very dysfunctional childhood!!! I saw lots of fights(physical and verbal)between my parents. I also saw infidelities from my mom's part and from my oldests sisters. I did not like my childhood at all, but yet my parents were "married".
If your marriage is full of violence and your kids dont see any love between you two, its not a good environment for them to grow.
If you and your husband are willing to seriously work in your marriage and make a better life for you as a couple and your kids, then it is worth it to try to fix it and stay in it.
Of course you will have to break all contact with the OM and just concentrate on your husband.
But if you are not willing to do anything for the marriage and continue with the illicit relationship, you should tell your husband,separate, do something about it, but you should not continue with the farse. It will eventually take a toll on you,your kids,your husband, everyone!!!
If you knew for sure, the consecuences of your actions right now, you will not be doing what you are doing!!!! Your future after the affair comes out in the light looks sad and scary.
Take care and go and "do the right thing" like Dr. Laura Slessinger, would say!!

MYRTA

[ November 17, 2004, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: Myrta ]

With all due respect, Myrta, I disagree.

It is not a choice between:
staying married and being unhappy,
or leaving and being with the other man.

There is an opportunity here for passion to be in love with her husband and be happy. Isn't that the ultimate goal here?

If, after she has cut the OM out of her life and put all possible effort into saving her marriage with her H's participation, she is still unhappy, she may consider separation.

She may consider rekindling a relationship with OM at this stage, but only after the divorce is final.

Sound like a fair deal, passion?

KS2001- But thats what I said. I am saying that she and her husband should either take it seriously and work in their marriage, with no interference from the OM, but if she cannot do that, and she continues contact while being married, she should separate.Is not fair for her husband, or her kids.
Do you think she should work in her marriage at the same time she is with OM?
She has to take her marriage as her first priority of course and try to make it work. If those kids are just seeing fights left and right, is no good for them to grow up in that kind of household.
I am the product of a very dysfunctional childhood. I saw things that kids should not see, that marked me for life. I wished then that they had separated. It was not a happy childhood, but they are still married!!! Still fighting with each other,unhappy with their choice, but now too late to divorce. They are way too old.
Myrta

Myrta

Seems like we have the same opinion after all. She definitely has to end contact with OM, whatever happens.

I just felt it was important to illustrate that the options were not so clear-cut.

Lots of love <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ok everyone out there that has been giving me the advice, I was 19 years old when I met the OM we started out as friends and co-workers. We were together everyday and I became very close with his entire family, including his wife and son. His son was only 8 mos. Old when I started watching him at the office cause his wife couldnâ€™t be bothered, as she put it so many times. â€œIâ€™m not the mothering typeâ€ those were always her exact words. Anyway as time went on I started seeing this guy who is now my current husband, things were rough in the beginning he is an only child and wasnâ€™t used to sharing with another person. I hung in there, well one day the OM just looked at me in such a way and he kissed me and I kissed him back. Things sort of took of from there, we were always together and I would always go and visit his parents and I always had his son with me.

His wife couldnâ€™t have been bothered cause her career was too important to her but they used to fight a lot and she was nasty and through things in his face that she would never divorce him and if he tried that she would keep his son from him. That was his biggest fear and it was something that we talked about often. We would tell each other that we loved each other and when I had problems at home he was always there for me. I had a stepfather that was very cruel to me & my brothers and sisters. So there were many times I had to run out of my house because of a situation with my step-dad. I would try to call my boyfriend who is now my husband and if he was on his boat or out with friends he would say â€œwhat do you want me to do I am out with friends and cant deal with you right nowâ€ So I would call the OM and he would rush over there and get me out of the house. I fell in love with this other man just from being with him everyday and sharing my life tales with him as well as he shared his with me. His mother and I became very close and would always say I wish you were my daughter-in-law, because the OMâ€™s wife never liked his parents and was never very nice to them. After two years my friends were getting married and my boyfriend (now husband) had asked me to marry him and I said yes. My mom wasnâ€™t very happy about it cause she didnâ€™t think that he had much to offer and she had seen the relationship that we had and didnâ€™t like the fact that he was a selfish person. I would make the excuse that he will change, he was an only child and he was very spoiled. His own parents even approached me and asked me if I was sure I wanted to marry him because he wasnâ€™t the marrying type. At the time I had met new friends through him and was having fun and felt like it was the right thing to do.

Meanwhile the OM and I had many talks about our relationship and I knew that he didnâ€™t want to lose his son and that hurt him more than anything, I did not want to be the one that took him away from him either, so I started to back off. We still worked together and saw him everyday and yes we were still physical and I know it was wrong but I couldnâ€™t help it. My husband and I moved into our new house and things got really bad, the house was in his name cause he bought it before we got married and I couldnâ€™t even hang anything on the wall without him telling me it was â€œhis houseâ€ and he didnâ€™t want it there. We couldnâ€™t have a joint checking account cause he felt it was 90/10 he got the 90 and I got the 10. We fought constantly about money. That I think was our biggest downfall, I hung in there and tried to make things better between us and get him to open up more and not be so selfish but it was very hard. Lots of stuff happened in between and it is too much to right about. We did have some moments that were physical and I went to stay with my mom.
Again I found myself falling back into the arms of the OM. I guess we just understood each other because we were both going through the same thing. Two years went by and I decided that I wanted to have a baby so during this time I had no physical contact with the OM. I had ended up pregnant by my husband and still had no sexual contact with the OM. I worked for him for 5 years and when I left there to take another job, it felt like the hardest thing I have ever had to do. After leaving the OM it had been about a year and a half that we had absolutely no contact with each other. I had gotten a phone call from his brother to tell me that their mom had breast cancer. Of course I was over there as fast as I could be, trying to help them out. I was cooking dinners for them and sending up to their house and a year later she had died. It was the hardest thing I had to do by going to the funeral home, I felt like it was my mom, when I got inside and saw him standing there he gave me a hug and fell apart in my arms right in front of his wife and everyone. His dad and brother knew why and that was because his dad said he needed me to cry on cause his wife was not making things easy for him during this time. She was not the type you could cry on. So anyway I left that day not ever thinking of hearing from him again and then I got a phone call at my office to see how I was doing. He was next door at the restaurant and asked me to come and sit with him for lunch, which I did. I could see his face light up and we talked for about and hour and alls I remember was him telling me that we should have been together all these years. And that he would always love me and he too felt like we were soul mates.

To everyone that thinks we have this illustrious affair, I hope this helps give a little background as to how this all started. To me it isnâ€™t a fairy tale or fantasyland, it is two people that really understand each other and have the same wants and goals in life. Unfortunately it wasnâ€™t in the cards for us, the reason I came onto this site is to possibly meet someone that has had the same situation as I and help me understand how to get past the hurt in my heart because of the feelings that I have for this man. I realize that in some ways I have blocked myself from having a healthy and happy relationship with my husband and I realize that that is something I have to work on. But I just cant seem to get these feelings out of my heart or my mind for the OM.

I realize that in some ways I have blocked myself from having a healthy and happy relationship with my husband and I realize that that is something I have to work on. But I just cant seem to get these feelings out of my heart or my mind for the OM.

So is that something you are going to start to work on...a healthy and happy relationship with your husband...

even inspite of your current present feeling for the OM...

What is your goal here...

ARK

ks, Myrta...

Passion is looking for a permission slip here, a loophole. Divorce your husband, and only go after OM after that's done - that's a permission slip. This advice is, in essence, a suggestion that this woman divorce her husband without telling him about the affair, then get it going once everybody's out of the woods. Her husband will never know the real reason for the divorce, and his future relationships will suffer for that. Unacceptable.

I think many WS try to find ways to make themselves just virtuous enough for short periods to get through the hard parts without being consumed by guilt. They stop sleeping with the affair partner for a few days while they retain attorneys and gather up their possessions and find places to live. Then they come running back to anesthetize the pain.

Keeping the affair on hold and just letting the anticipation drive you crazy is a different version of the same trick.

And passion, I probably don't have to tell you that the fact that you aren't f***ing this guy (yet) doesn't mean you aren't having an affair.

GC

Well, I dont know this whole experience has made me take a good look at my life, that is for sure, but I dont know what the goal is, I have this wall around me with my husband and I dont know why, I think alot of it is resentment for things that have happened in the past between us and I have a hard time forgiving things that have happened. I love my kids more than my life and it upsets me that my husband doesnt take the time that he sould with them. They grow up so fast and he is missing out on all of this stuff but when you try to talk to him about it he doesnt care. I just worry that my kids see that there is no love between us, there hasnt been an "I love you said in a long long time" We are not affectionate towards one another and I worry cause I want my kids to grow up and be affectionate the person they fall in love with not be like their dad and I.

JMO.. I think that sounds like a beutiful love story and ...

And I think it is so wonderful to save this OM from his very horriable W ...

And to think you poor thing in that selfish M that you have given everything to ... the nerve of your H to think he can ignore you and you would stay faithful ...

Thank goodness for OM ,, being there to talk about your problems with ,, other wise who in gods name would you have talked to shared with ...

He is such a good listener and you for him ...

Those nasty BS's (his w and your H)

They are just not there for either one of you ...

And the KIDS oh now they are much better with happy well functioning people like you and OM ...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I see no problem here at all ,,,you love OM your H you do not ,,,

He loves his son ,,,his W he does not ....

I am sure if you 2 fight hard his W can nt TAKE AWAY his child from him ,,, give me a break ...

AN excuse maybe not to leave her ,,, OH stupid me he is to sincere for that ...

MARRIAGE BUILDING SITE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Passion, you have not said one positive thing about your husband on this thread.

What an a-hole he must be. No?

GC

PASSION--dont you see how you are making your poor unknown husband look? He is completely unaware of all this! Is this fair to him?
Put yourself in his shoes,change positions, would you like it if he was the one talking like that about you? Being connected emotinally to another woman?
No one,unless,they are masochists, would like that treatment or words.

MYRTA

Dear Passion:

I feel very sad for you. You must feel very lonely, very much like you are in some sort of limbo. Please remember you chose your husband and your husband chose you. The other man hasn't and he won't chose you; he has made it clear that he won't leave his wife. You know that in your heart. You need time away from him for your head to understand that clearly.

No matter what you are in for a lot of pain. You are already are.

I am not trying to bash him by telling lies, he is the way he is and I dont know how to make things better. He expects me to be the house wife by cleaning, cooking, waiting on him and taking care of the kids, working two jobs, and what do I get in return...From him nothing but "this house is a mess" While he sits on his butt and does nothing. He has this job for the State of NY where he has had the entire summer off and never did one thing around the house. HE is still off and I come home from work to find a mess in the house, the kids homework never done, and he expects dinner on the table which I do and then leave for my other job only to come home at 9pm and find all of the dishes and kitchen a mess and kids hoomework still isnt done, and where is he playing xbox or watching tv. Isnt a marriage suppose to be 50/50. Well in my case it isnt and we have had more than one discussion on this and it doesnt seem to do any good. I realize no one is perfect but over the last year I have been through hell with my health, I have arthirtis so bad that I have to be tested for lymph node cancer every 6 mos. cause the form of arthritis that I have could lead to cancer of the blood, I have had to have surgery on my rectum for tearing a muscle from lifting a heavy object(kitchen counter top) I couldnt get him to move it when we put the new one in so I did it myself and now suffering for that, In June I had a kidney stone that I got rushed to the hospital for by ambulance, then this december i have to have more blood work done for more cancer tests and I suffer from tension and stress. Well I wonder why, maybe cause I do it all by myself so again I ask all of you pro marriage people what do I do to get my husband to come around and help me out more. Is he waiting for something really bad to happen to me physically before he realizes! And I am not suppose to be resentful to him for his behavior for all of this.

With your constant distraction and obsession with your addiction to your OM you have kept yourself from really being a wife to your H.

Though he may not know what has been missing in his marriage; he may think this is how marriages are supposed to be...devoid of any connection. He knows nothing else because he is left in the dark. Your focus has been dwelling on what could be or should have been with OM. It has been you and your OM against the world.

You have been justifying your actions with excuses like: I really wanted to have the wedding part of marriage. I wanted kids. All the while pining for the OM even when you weren't seeing him for stretches of time. You have never really committed to your H. You haven't earned your way out of this marriage.

You will never know what your marriage could be because you have never been honest with your H. Would you be happy if you found out he had married you even though he was having a physical A with and OW and having intimate, personal conversation with her for the better part of your marriage? Wouldn't it make you feel ripped off, and a bit nauseous?

You have been a very self-centered woman. Everything you have blamed your H for could be a result of your not nurturing and loving your H as a wife should. You've not really been present in your marriage.

I want you to understand that if you can end all contact with OM and commit to radical honesty with your H and follow the Four Rules for a Successful Marriage:

Four Rules for a Successful Marriage

...you can fall in love with your H and have a better marriage with the father of your children than you ever could have by breaking up your families and trying to have something with OM.

I am sorry you have wasted so much of your marriage thinking the grass would be greener on the other side of the fence. What a waste.

Please know that you can recover from this affair and regain your integrity...and even find happiness.

I am sorry for all the health problems you have been having. The stress caused by all your resentment and your pent up emotions due to your A and the dishonesty surrounding that don't help your health at all.

Letting the resentment go, forgiving, being honest, and seeking forgiveness for your part in your lack of a fullfilling marriage may help your on many levels...not the least of which may be your health. You are very young to have all these illnesses.

Read this site, get your H on board to have a better marriage than you could ever have dreamed possible. The rest may fall into place. It won't be without pain and lots of work. If you can both make it through it will be well worth the effort.
No pain, no gain applies to marital recovery too.

Lemonman-- Look like I hit a spot yesterday with that post about the children. My sources for my statement were actaually a University of Notrre dame study I read. It is very similar to the Ohio State study referenced earlier. I have also heard it on Dr. Laura and other radio talk shows.

First off, loveless M, different from constant shouting matches and dysfunctionality that you described. What I was talking about is what some of the other posters alluded to. If there is constant shouting, fighting, etc., of course shildren shouldn't be in that environment.

i am sorry if I hurt your feelings, not my intention. My statement was just as it said, based on studies. Also, based on my statement of what I would be willing to do for my child...swallow my pride and the fact that my W committed a dispicable act, a mortal sin, and work on our M and try to save it for my child's future. I have been called a martyr, whatever, my taker is out to lunch and I'm doing what I believe any parent should do, putting my needs second to my child's.

Indeed, a beautiful love story. Obviously you have suffered for many years in pursuit of forbidden love...

Tough. You married another man, and now you have to try and make the best of that.

It's not about unrequited love, it's about responsibility. If you have no sense of responsibility, what kind of example are you setting for your kids?

OM is essentially an unfaithful, manipulative liar. What makes you think he wouldnt do the same to you when life gets too ordinary?

Poor you, passion.

You know,a marriage is what you make it and although your H *may not be giving it his all(he needs to be here to speak for himself),did you ever stop to think that maybe,just maybe,he knows something is amiss? YOU are not giving to him because you are involved emotionally with this OM for ALL THIS TIME.HELLOOO? Do you not SEE how ridiculous this all is? Do you know that every single thing you told us in your previous posts we have heard from all other WS's? It's absurd.

None of us is perfect and we all have PROBLEMS(medical,emotional,physical,mental).It's how you deal with those problems that counts.Our actions define us.Do you think for one second that if you up and left your H and kids for this OM that it would be one big bed of roses? Do you think that over time,all the pain and anger and issues that WILL creep up on you and OM too over time will just be magically wisked away? Won't you have just a whole NEW set of issues to deal with? A double divorce with double custody battles,financial ruin,anger,pain,withdrawal,visitation schedules,job pressures,bills,new home purchase issues,etc,etc,etc.

How about taking care of the marriage and family you ALREADY have instead of thinking that the answer lies out there with this OM? YOU have the power to change how you live and what you get out of life.It is within YOU,not some other man,not your H nor anyone else but you.How about making some healthy and right decisions for a change?

O

*edited for typos*

[ November 17, 2004, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]

Passion, you can do it. Your husband needs to be educated, and so do you.

Being a martyr and letting your resentment build is no way to live! You and your husband need to learn to talk about these things.

You know all those thoughts you have all the time, the ones where you have doubts about your marriage, are annoyed with your husband, wish things were different? You need to learn to voice them, and your husband needs to learn to care.

Now say something good about this man you're dragging through the mud!

GC

Passion,

The first thing you do to get your husband to "come around" is to tell him about your affair/love for this other man.

There are many, many people here - me included - who will testify that finding out that their spouse had to turn to someone else to get his or needs met was a HUGE wakeup call that led to a lot introspection - and in many cases, to very significant changes in their marriages.

Here's a question for you: What was it about your husband that made you fall in love with him in the first place? You say now what an awful person he is. But..at some point, you were in love with him. Why?

I agree with Andrew. It was a wake-up call for me, which means, despite the obvious issues, we entered into our marriage happier than ever.

He hurt me a great deal, but luckily we have been forced to change things and affair-proof our marriage for the future.

MB works. Follow the principles to the letter.

Anyone else willing to support this with their own successes?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by passion1_87:
Isnt a marriage suppose to be 50/50. <hr /></blockquote>yes.

But have you been giving your 50 to him? He sounds more and more like a man who has not had his needs met in a long time and has given up. You both need to fill each other's needs in order for you both to want to give back to one another.

Your new posts scream that you are still looking for acceptance of your A- and you will never get that here. You speak that your are lonely, that OM's W is "horrible", that H is "horrible". Do you not understand that these are just excuses to continue the A???

I hear blame all around except for when it comes to you and your OM. Funny. It is you 2 who are committing adultery, but that is ok. IT IS NOT OK!

And yes, your description of how your R started is still a fantasy. You have not experienced the everyday ho hum life with him. It is hidden and exciting and in perpetual "romantic love".

I am not as bad as a person as you people are perceiving me to be. I have done everything for my husband through the last 10 years and I have had to listen to my mom and his parents say how I am crazy for doing all the things that I do for him. Maybe now that I am older and want more out of my life I am starting to realize that I need more I work to hard and do to much and basically get no appreciation from my husband. Set aside the OM. He has nothing to do with my marriage going south it has been this way for a long time and we have had couneling and talked one on one and he tries for about a month and then things go right back to the way they were, I am not saying I am going to leave him for this OM, I just think that all of what has happened in my life over the last 13 years is making me take a step back and wonder what it is I am looking for. Marriage, work, life. My kids are my life and they come before anything and if their dad and I were to split it doesnt mean that i am going to pursue anyone. I think that I am in need of some time alone from my husband and Om. I am not happy with some of my life choices but I am living with them. But dont make me out to be this awful person cause I had an affair, We are all only human and we can learn from our mistakes, as far as me telling my husband the truth that is not possible..Unless I want one foot in the grave that is what will happen he can be violent! And no counselor and anything would stop him. And I am not going to have my kids see that happen. That is more devasting than us parting ways quietly. Maybe that is a crappy way of looking at things but that is how I feel. If we stay together which we will I just dont know how to make things better and I also feel that it cant be just me trying he has to, to and that is where we have a problem. Hasnt anyone experienced a person like this?

We are not trying to make you out to feel like a bad person. Everyone here has some idea of what you are feeling. However- Honestly- the OM has a lot to do with the current status of your relationship. You are letting him meet your needs, and not seeking your H out to meet them. You love your kids, great, really. If you are not happy then you need to look into yourself and see why. However I think you do need to be honest with your H about your feelings. Work for a common goal. If you and OM were to persue a R, that would tramatize two families- just make sure it would be worth it in the end.

Passion,

I understand how you feel. You are in a difficult situation. You feel trapped.

But...you came here looking for help because things aren't working. Your original post made it seem like you view the relationship with the OM as a problem.

I appreciate what you say about your H being violent if you tell him. But, I think you have to recognize that things WON'T get better UNLESS you tell him. Unless you tell him, you'll have no incentive to end the affair. Unless you tell him, you'll never know whether he is committed to re-building the marriage.

QUietly going your separate ways doesn't seem like a plausible option because if your husband is the control freak you make him out to be, he'll ASSUME that you left him for someone else, even if you didn't.

As for marriage being 50/50...I used to think that as well. But...I've since learned that I was wrong. To work, marriage has to be 100/100. Both parties have to give all of their best selves to the relationship and to the other person.

Passion,

We don't think of you as a horrible person but rather your choices have been really poor and hurtful.Because we are being tough with you,please don't misinterpret that as not wanting to help.

You have put,and continue to put yourself between a rock and hard place.Years and years of habit and bad personal choices have lead you to exactly where you are this moment.You CAN change that.Making the choice to have an A is never the answer to anything and actually only makes things worse in many ways.You mention you have a H who may seriously hurt you.Well,isn't this the best reason to end the A with OM before he finds out on his own,which by the way,is worse than if you told him? Just how long are you going to keep this secret?

Face it passion,your life is one big mess and a big part of it is due to the A.Of course we don't know you personally and no we haven't followed you around for days to see what your home life is really like.All we can do is try to help with the inofrmation you give us here and well,it's not positive at all.

Professional counseling I think is your best bet right now and maybe even with Steve Harley if you can.

O

[ November 17, 2004, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]

Thanks to all of you!

Passion, nobody is calling you a horrible person. Nobody is aiming their finger at you screaming "J'accuse!" We're just trying to help. Adultery is a dreadful experience for all involved, WS included. We get it!

Have you ever heard of the "age 30 transition"? It goes by other names as well, but it is something experienced by many women these days. There are biological changes that happen to women, usually in their early 30s, that coincide with their marriages reaching a certain duration, and change in career and family status. It's a time when many women begin to look at where they are, and wonder if it is where they want to be, and they begin to question many of their early choices.

Many women have affairs during this time.

Hope4future is a former WS who has a particular interest in this phenomenon - maybe she'll post to you.

Anyway, if your husband is abusive, the whole equation changes. But an affair is not the answer.

If you want to end your marriage, sticking to the "earn your way out" mantra with honesty and maturity is a must, for the sake of all involved. This affair with OM is no solution, now or ever.

Furthermore, having gone to see a counselor with your husband does not give you a pass. Was the counselor any good? How did you choose him/her? There are many, many, waaaay too many counselors out there who are not dedicated to saving marriages, who talk about communication but don't give couples any of the tools they need to truly make changes in their relationships.

GC

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I am not as bad as a person as you people are perceiving me to be. I have done everything for my husband through the last 10 years and I have had to listen to my mom and his parents say how I am crazy for doing all the things that I do for him. Maybe now that I am older and want more out of my life I am starting to realize that I need more I work to hard and do to much and basically get no appreciation from my husband. Set aside the OM. He has nothing to do with my marriage going south it has been this way for a long time and we have had couneling and talked one on one and he tries for about a month and then things go right back to the way they were, I am not saying I am going to leave him for this OM, I just think that all of what has happened in my life over the last 13 years is making me take a step back and wonder what it is I am looking for. Marriage, work, life. My kids are my life and they come before anything and if their dad and I were to split it doesnt mean that i am going to pursue anyone. I think that I am in need of some time alone from my husband and Om. I am not happy with some of my life choices but I am living with them. But dont make me out to be this awful person cause I had an affair, We are all only human and we can learn from our mistakes, as far as me telling my husband the truth that is not possible..Unless I want one foot in the grave that is what will happen he can be violent! And no counselor and anything would stop him. And I am not going to have my kids see that happen. That is more devasting than us parting ways quietly. Maybe that is a crappy way of looking at things but that is how I feel. If we stay together which we will I just dont know how to make things better and I also feel that it cant be just me trying he has to, to and that is where we have a problem. Hasnt anyone experienced a person like this? <hr /></blockquote> <blockquote>quote:<hr />Set aside the OM. <hr /></blockquote>You can't set aside OM because he has been an intergral part of the failure of your marriage. OM has been a part of your marriage even before you married. You can't have a successful marriage with a third party involved.

I know it is hard to realize but the only way for your marriage to have a chance to improve and for your H to have a chance to be the husband you have longed for him to be is with RADICAL HONESTY. He needs to know who he has been married to for these 10 yrs. He needs to know why you have remained distant from him. He needs to make his own choice as to whether you are worth it to him.

Many people do not get the response they expect from their spouse when they tell them the truth. You may be surprised. The sad part will always be the length of time you have kept this A alive. That will be the most devastating part for him. He needs the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Only then can you build a new marriage on a brand new foundation with the man you vowed to be faithful to..your H. It will take a real understanding about just what the word commitment takes. If you do the painful but important work you may be rewarded with the marriage you've longed for. A real partnership as well as better examples for your children.

Passion,
Check out posts of Thos member # 32928. His wife had a 10 yr. affair.

Passion, It can be overwhelming to deal with what you're dealing with. There's a lot on your plate and I understand the place you're coming from and your point of view. In case you're interested, here's a site with a private forum and a less judgmental approach. Take care of yourself.

another place

STOP! Passion, this one's for you: "Lord, forgive her; for she knows not what she does."

Or is that really the case?

You've come here on MB looking for an answer on what you should do in your bizarre love traingle. For some insight on your dilemma, right? Go get yourself a cup of coffee before you sit down and read this, then.

I've been there. So many MB'ers have. (Take a look at my thread a few pages ago when I first came here. Sound familiar, huh?)

I haven't been posting much, as i am now dealing with the pain that my choices have inflicted on my W and family. Right in the middle of it. And, now, because of those choices--because of the dishonesty--and, not telling the truth is lying--I may not have any chance for the woman I so want to be M to. Did I "know" that during my EA (and even before?) NO--or so I thought. Same questions as you are asking same "situation" as yours.

I counted over 10 "I'm so in love with him" (et al) in your first three posts. Who are you trying to convince, passion? You're not doing a very good job with us.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />To me it isnâ€™t a fairy tale or fantasyland, it is two people that really understand each other and have the same wants and goals in life.<hr /></blockquote>NO, but you're trying to rewrite it that way. The only thing left is the ending, right? I am pleading with you to stop, and take a break from this OM. Take a hard look at [I}you.[/I] You probably won't understand this now, but the OM is nothing. He is stringing you along. 10 years?!?!? If this is real love, why didn't he divorce his wife way back when, and why did you marry your H? Don't answer it. Not now. Oh, maybe you actually did see something in your H. Maybe you did choose the right mate? Don't answer. Not now. But how, can you answer any of this, with that third wheel hanging onto you?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Unfortunately it wasnâ€™t in the cards for us...<hr /></blockquote>You really need to think about this --what you said. These are all of your choices. How dare you say that and not take accountability for choices you make. (And this passion, is very difficult for me to say. I've been there--I'm still there in alot of ways.)

There's no way to change the past. Get over it. (I twitched while I wrote those words.) But, from one WS to another WS--ain't gonna change what you really did, all the choices you made. How are you going to handle those choices?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />...the reason I came onto this site is to possibly meet someone that has had the same situation as I and help me understand how to get past the hurt in my heart because of the feelings that I have for this man.<hr /></blockquote>Why are you hurting if these feelings are "true?"
Yes, you can answer that one. Oh, wait. Let me. The "feelings" are not true--your confusion, frustration, maybe even despair--are. Don't look away from those real feelings in the hopes of finding them in soebody else. They are real. You have real problems in your M. It's not the end of the world. It starts with you, passion. Then your H. But if you keep this going with the OM, it will be the end of your M. And what did you accomplish? Brushing your problems under the perverbbial rug? Escaping instead of confronting real issues in your M? What's really real here, passion?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I realize that in some ways I have blocked myself from having a healthy and happy relationship with my husband and I realize that that is something I have to work on.<hr /></blockquote>Keep realizing. The world isn't perfect; neither is your M. It's OK to admit mistakes. But, what are you going to do about them? Hide them and run to some other OM that you've been sharing them with? Guess what? THE PROBLEMS WILL STILL BE THERE. Within YOU.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />But I just cant seem to get these feelings out of my heart or my mind for the OM.<hr /></blockquote>My poor, passion. Wish there was something I--we--could tell you to snap you out of it. What you're doing is only creating pain. Hard thing to demand, but you really need to trust me on this one.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by passion1_87:
[QB] I am not as bad as a person as you people are perceiving me to be. <hr /></blockquote>No, just misguided, in lala land. This OM is not reality. HOWEVER, the pain you are causing for all, IS.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Maybe now that I am older and want more out of my life I am starting to realize that I need more I work to hard and do to much and basically get no appreciation from my husband.<hr /></blockquote>Do you realize what a contradiction this is? "Maybe now that I am older..." And, please refresh, when did you start this A with the other man? This is what everyone means by "rewriting history."

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Set aside the OM.<hr /></blockquote>You haven't, so don't even try to pretend with that. See? You really need to face reality, passion. I'm not saying that cruelly. I'm saying that from experience. I have done everything to myself and my F to try and escape and hide. You need to face the harsh reality--REALITY--of what your decisions are doing.

I wish I had more time to respond to you for now--I don't. I need to go repair what damage I've done--all because of the same reasons you cite and try to make us believe. Passion, it ain't happenin' here--or anywhere. Take a stand and face the reality you have created.

Best wishes, God bless.

LINY

I forgot to add: it may be worth rereading suzet's first two posts.

Thank you for your advice! I appreciate it even though it doesnt seem like I am listening...I am! I am taking in every word!

This may be callous but...

I don't think this is for real.

Chackler,

What makes you think it's not real?

I don't know, it's a vibe I get. I could be totally wrong.

Passion knows what she is doing is wrong and she's listening to what people here are saying... But she isn't posting any actions she is taking on her part to fix the mess that she's in.

Passion, I could be wrong. I understand your feelings, I really do. There comes a point in time though when you need to ACT. What are you planning on doing to repair the damage you have done?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by passion1_87:
 He has nothing to do with my marriage going south it has been this way for a long time<hr /></blockquote>Yes, he has EVERYTHING to do with your M going south! OM has been the third party in this M from the get go! Because of this, you have not even given your M a chance to work

Chackler, this is real and I came to this site yesterday for help. I dont know what i am going to do, I do know I have a lot of thinking to do before I do anything. I need to get my head on straight first before I can leap into anything with my husband. I have been sharing alot of this with my mom who happens to be a psychiatric social worker for the city we live in and she has helped somewhat but there still is alot of things I havent shared with her. It is very hard to come clean with the skeletons in my closet. I never set out to hurt anyone and I do know full well what I am doing I guess I am just confused and lonely and talking on this site is helping me see the way things should be. So it is very real I just dont know what to do yet!

Passion,

I applaud you for realizing that you have a lot of thinking to do. You're not going to be able to think about this situation clearly, however, as long as you are still emotionally tied to the the OM.

You need to cut that cord in order to see this situation objectively.

Passion, do NOT use your mother in her capacity as a professional counselor.

GC

Well,
If you want to get your head right, maybe try having absolutely no contact with the other man. See a counselor other than your mother and talk to that counselor about your thoughts and feelings. Try that for a while to get your thoughts sorted. You see at the moment you are quite addicted to the other man. You will find it excruciating not to contact the OM.

Try to look for the good in your H. I think it would be best if you caome clean with your H, but if you insist that you can't do that yet, then start by giving up the Om and getting some counseling.

You state that you are in a lot of pain at the moment. If you persist with the present status quo, then that is what you will continue to get, more pain. Try something different. Expect more pain at first. Giving up something you are addicted to is not easy. Have you ever tried to stop smoking? Similar.

While this OM is in your heart and you mind, your marriage will never be all it could be. Give your marriage a shot.
C&S

Passion,

Welcome to MB. I hope it helps your troubled marriage.

I have to tell you that the OW in our relationship had a husband just like yours: unemployed over a long time and an absolute zero in helping with the house, the kids, whatever.
OW, like you, worked two full-time jobs AND had to get the kids off to school, do the housework, go to PTA, etc etc etc. It was insane and, as far as we know, still is.

Point is, NONE of her emotional needs were being met by her H, and neither are yours. But allowing another man to fill them is definitely not the answer.

So you've had this emotional/sometimes physical affair with this man who hangs in the background of your life for years on end. His marriage isn't faring very well, either, but he is never likely to leave his wife (not just his son) for you. Ever.

Your marriage to your husband doesn't stand a chance unless things change, and change mightily:

1. You go NO Contact with OM for LIFE. No phone calls, lunches, emails, or any contact with him or his family whatsoever. And you tell him it is because you want to make your marriage work.

2. You lay it on the line with your husband that you are NOT superwoman and he needs to change, too, and make your marriage a partnership. It can't be 90/10 anymore. It's 50/50.

3. You get into counseling with a pro-marriage counselor and perhaps even get some individual counseling for yourself to help you understand why you would put up with so little for so long from your husband.

4. If you give it your all and a year from now you see no permanent changes in your marriage, perhaps you start talking with a counselor about an exit strategy to help every cope with the demise of the marriage.

Then you move on, without OM (remember he is not going to leave his wife for you and his son is only an excuse. You'll have to take our word on that). You create a good, stable, loving home for you and your children and then if Unmarried Mr. Right comes along, great!

I hope you find your path, Passion. You certainly deserve better than this!

~ Snow

PS. I highly recommend the book, "His Needs, Her Needs," by Harley for both you and your husband. Your needs are screaming for attention and I bet you'd be surprised to learn that all of your working, cleaning and cooking might not even scratch the surface of what your H's biggest emotional needs are. Read the book, you'll see what I mean.

Snowbelle has some wonderful advice for you. Makes a lot of sense if you REALLY absorb it. You keep saying you don't know what to do. Yes, I think that you do, you just don't WANT to do it. The fantasy addiction with the OM is just too wonderful to live totally without.

I think the suggestion to read His Needs, Her Needs is very apt and I would also recommend Love Languages. You may think you are doing so much for him b/c of the housework etc. and none of that speaks love to your H. I know that was the case with me. I wore myself out making the perfect home, providing the money for H to play while he went to school full time. Meanwhile I was not able to meet his real nees: admiration, affection and sex to name the top three. Guess what? HE had the A, not me! That really hurt b/c I thought I was doing everything for him. I actually resented him and all the while he felt I did not love him and needed more. The OW was available to meet those needs, and off they went.

You really owe it to yourself to get educated on the nature of affairs. All the thinking in the world is not going to help you because you are in the fog and you don't know reality from a hole in your head. That is just what happens, nothing personal about you at all. The OW in my H's life was very like you, felt she had given all to her H and that he hadn't done anything to make her happy. When he found out about the A he tried to work on the M with her. She thought my H was going to leave me so she divorced her H to show MY H that she was serious. She had two preteen daughters who were devastated. Financially the divorce put all of them in much worse circumstances--from living in a house to a rented apartment. My H is back with me working on the M, she and her H are divorced....

Passion,

I want to emphasize to you that an involvement with someone of the opposite sex doesnâ€™t have to include sex before it can be classified as an Aâ€¦ Sometimes the greatest betrayals happen without touching. Infidelity is any emotional or sexual intimacy that violates trust. If you look at my signature line, you will see I was involved in such a â€œbetrayal without touchingâ€. I canâ€™t even begin to tell you how damaging & hurtful my EA was to ALL parties involved (including myself).

I think you need to know what constitutes an EA (Emotional Affair) and PA (Physical Affair):

An EA is an â€œAffair of the heartâ€ and includes the following:

1. Emotional intimacy. Transgressors share more of their ''inner self, frustrations and triumphs than with their spouses. They are on a slippery slope when they begin sharing the dissatisfaction with their marriage with a co-worker.''

2. Secrecy and deception. ''They neglect to say, 'We meet every morning for coffee.' Once the lying starts, the intimacy shifts farther away from the marriage.''

3. Sexual chemistry. Even though the two may not act on the chemistry, there is at least an unacknowledged sexual attraction.

A PA includes any physical activity or touching you wouldnâ€™t feel comfortable doing in front of your spouse (like kissing, hugging, petting, etc.).

Passion, I think itâ€™s clear to you now that you were involved in an EA and PA with OM. Currently you still having an EA with OM... Your involvement with OM includes ALL THREE factors above that constitutes an EA.

Please read the following from this website (written by Dr Harley) â€“ maybe it will help if you get the facts straight for the horseâ€™s mouth:

HOW SHOULD AFFAIRS END?

There are three parts to the way affairs should end. The first part is revealing the affair to one's spouse, the second part is never seeing or communicating with the lover again, and the third part is getting through symptoms of withdrawal after a permanent separation takes place.

Granted, that's not the way most affairs end. In most affairs after the passion peaks, the spouse and lover simply drift apart, the victimized spouse usually never finds out about it and the lover is often still in the picture, occasionally getting back together again with the unfaithful spouse. Some affairs are discovered by the spouse, but even after discovery, the affair often continues unabated until it dies a natural death. If that's the way your affair ends, even if your marriage survives, it will probably not amount to much.

You may feel that after an affair a marriage doesn't amount to much anyway. But the way I suggest ending an affair in this Q&A column will give your marriage the greatest opportunity for a complete recovery.

Some affairs are "one night stands." They usually take place when a spouse is away on a trip, or when one has gone out partying without the other spouse. These relatively loveless affairs usually happen when people drink and lose impulse control. Alcoholics are the ones most likely to have these flings.

Other affairs start as a caring friendship and develop over years to become a complete relationship that solves most emotional and practical issues for the couple. These relationships become so complete and persistent that spouses are eventually divorced, and the lovers are united in marriage.

But most affairs are somewhere in between one night stands and relationships that lead to marriage.

Affairs usually take place because they meet important emotional needs. But most affairs meet only some emotional needs not met in marriage, leaving others that are being met by a spouse. That fact usually rules out the possibility of divorce, at least for the spouse having the affair. The wayward spouse knows that the lover, for some reason, is not able to meet some of the needs met by his or her spouse. So most affairs are never intended to lead to divorce and remarriage, but are "safety-valve" relationships that satisfy a need not met in marriage.

Affairs are intended to be kept secret

Having drawn the above conclusion about the nature of affairs, it should be obvious why most wayward spouses would like their affairs to go undetected. Not only do they want to avoid all the unhappiness that goes with discovery, but they also want to continue the affair as long as it meets needs not met in marriage. In most cases, a lover only meets one or two emotional needs, while the spouse meets others. Unfaithful spouses usually don't want their marriages to end, and yet they want emotional needs met that the spouse does not meet. Discovery of the affair, in most cases, would ruin the "solution" to their problem.

But there comes a time in almost every affair that an unfaithful spouse realizes that it has run it's course, or it wasn't a good idea to begin with. In some cases, it's the lover who ends the relationship, finding that the spouse isn't living up to expectations. And in other cases, it's the spouse that ends it when the disadvantages of the affair begin to outweigh the advantages.

In most cases, affairs end peacefully and in secret. By their very nature, there is not much of a commitment to hold them together, and a desire to do the "right thing" is usually the excuse an unfaithful spouse uses to end it. But the real reason is usually that the affair has become more trouble than it's worth.

We are all wired to have an affair. We can all fall in love with someone of the opposite sex if that person meets one of our emotional needs. If you don't think it can happen to you because of your conviction or will-power, you are particularly vulnerable to an affair. And if you think your spouse would never have an affair, you are also vulnerable.

Should an affair be revealed?

I have been letting you in on some clues to infidelity when a spouse is unwilling to be truthful. But there are a few, of course, who are honest enough to tell their spouses about an affair without being confronted. Guilt sometimes sets in right after the first sexual encounter, and it continues to build as one lie is added to another. Depression follows guilt and it's not unusual for a wayward spouse to even consider suicide as a way to escape the nightmare he or she has created. As an act of desperation, honesty is sometimes seized as a last resort, often in an effort to relieve the feelings of guilt.

From my perspective, honesty is part of the solution to infidelity, and so I'll take honesty for whatever reason, even if it's to relieve a feeling of guilt and depression. The revelation of an affair is very hard on an unsuspecting spouse, of course, but at the same time, it's the first step toward marital reconciliation.
Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.

But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.

It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.

It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.

It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.

After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.

If you knew that your affair would be discovered, you would probably not go through with it. And if you were honest enough with your spouse so that YOU would be the one to tell him or her what you did, your honesty would be a huge reason to avoid any affair.

Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

How should an unfaithful spouse tell his lover that their relationship is over? If left to their own devices, many would take a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. Obviously, that will not do. In fact, I recommend that the final good-bye be in the form of a letter, and not in person or even by telephone.

My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.

How to Get Through Withdrawal

Withdrawal is the emotional reaction to the loss of something that gives great pleasure. It's similar to the feelings an alcoholic has when he makes a commitment never to drink again. It's also similar to the grief that comes from the loss of a loved one. A lover is like alcohol and like a loved one. Not only do unfaithful spouses miss what it was their lovers did, meeting important emotional needs, but they also miss the person they had come to love.

Our most common emotions are anger, anxiety and depression. Symptoms of withdrawal usually include all of these in a very intense form. I usually suggest that anti-depressant medication be used to help alleviate these symptoms. While the most intense symptoms of withdrawal usually last only about three weeks, in some cases they can linger for six months or longer before they start to fade.

It is extremely likely that a commitment to remain separated from a lover will be broken unless extreme measures are taken to avoid it. That's because the emotional reaction of withdrawal is so painful. Honesty is an extremely important element in reconciliation, and it should be understood that if the unfaithful spouse ever sees or communicates with the lover, he or she should immediately tell the spouse that it happened. They should then agree on a plan that would prevent a recurrence of contact in the future. But as soon as any contact is made, it throws the unfaithful spouse back to the beginning of withdrawal, and the time it takes to overcome the feelings of grief begins all over again.

Sometimes I tell spouses to just avoid each other until the withdrawal stage passes because all the effort to be kind and thoughtful is easily wasted until they start feeling better.

It's the stage of recovery after withdrawal that gives spouses the best opportunity to learn to meet each other's most important emotional needs and overcome Love Busters. Spouses should save their most tolerant mood for that stage, where they could both be receptive to each other's care.

[ November 18, 2004, 02:27 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

Hi Passion,
I have been following this board for 8 months or so, and tonight I was sparked to finally register and chime in.
I too, came here for help. I started reading EVERYTHING on this site.. bought some of the books. Yet I never posted. WHY?
I have been suffering through serious problems in my marriage that bothered me greatly. I did a search on the internet looking for "marriage problems". From there I was led to this site. I had hoped to come here, post, and certainly not expecting sympathy, but hoping for reasoning and thought provoking advice that might help me resolve the issues troubling my marriage. And what did I find when I stopped in? A thread just like this one. Someone who was scared, confused, troubled, and reaching out for a hand that could help, just as I had hoped to do, and quite possibly, what you were looking for as well.
Instead, the person was met with such condemnation, ridicule, anger and spite (as if SHE was the actual OW to these women) that she was never helped, and resulted in me never posting about my concerns as well. I'm sure that you are questioning the choice that you made as well.
I saw that this site was supposed to be a "Christian SUPPORT Forum", and thought that I may have found the answer to some pretty desperate prayers on my part. A loving, christian attitude full of hope, help, caring was not what I found. Nor the original poster. I don't believe that I've seen her post here again.
I think that several of the older posters on this forum fail to see the good that they could provide. People with dire marital issues, come here, seeking advice, help, guidance... and instead, they receive instant negative responses. Do they achieve what they hope to? Are they here to run the sinful out? Are they the keepers of the forums "morality"? Instead of gently asking questions to find out how they might turn someone from the "A" path into "Marriage Building", the denouncing negativity is stronger than any message that they might hope to convey.
Some come here to get help as the BS.. others come to find out why and what they've done. But it seems as though this site can only cater to the BS.
Yes, I have sinned. Have you?

PS. Passion, if you want to talk... try contacting me through this site.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />A loving, christian attitude full of hope, help, caring was not what I found.<hr /></blockquote>Mizz, this is a very generalized assumption... I agree there is some posters who react with anger, condemnation etc. but if you read this thread (and all the other threads on this forum) very closely, you will see that there are many loving and Christian posters full of hope, help, caring etc. as wellâ€¦

On this thread passion has already received some thought provoking advice & posts without the anger and condemnation. Further you must understand that many of the posters here are BSâ€™s who are still very early in recovery and in a lot of pain and hurtâ€¦ Yes, these BSâ€™s are very angry â€“ they still have all those negative feelings to work through â€“ and itâ€™s understandable that they will sometimes project these negative feelings on WSâ€™s/FWSâ€™s on this board. I donâ€™t say it is right or fair of them to react this way... It is just UNDERSTANDABLE...

Also, some posters believe in â€œtough loveâ€ and a hard approach. Otherâ€™s believe in a soft and gentle approach. Depending on the situation, both approaches can be successful at times.

Remember, this board is full of people who are in different stages of recovery and have different emotions & experiences.

I hope you will find the courage to post your story and let us help you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Suzet

[ November 18, 2004, 03:49 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

passion:

" Isnt a marriage suppose to be 50/50. "

No, marriage is supposed 2 be 100/100.

The only way out of this is truth, honesty, and disclosure.

Here are the best definitions of truth, honesty, secrecy and privacy I've ever found:

"The Difference Between Secret And Private

Private matters are those traits, truths, beliefs, and ideas about ourselves that we keep to ourselves. They might include our fantasies and daydreams, feelings about the way the world works, and spiritual beliefs. Private matters, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, give another person some insight into the revealer.

Secrets, on the other hand, consist of information that has potentially negative impact on someone else-emotionally, physically, or financially. Secrets, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, cause great chaos or harm to the secret-keeper and those around him or her.

Private: I believe in reincarnation.

Secret: I have a wife and a mistress and neither knows about the other.

Private: I got terrible grades in high school.

Secret: I forged my medical degree.

The Difference Between Truth and Honesty

Truth is empirical, demonstrable fact. Your bank balance, todayâ€™s date, whether or not youâ€™re married.

Honesty is about feelings. If youâ€™re honest, you are open and clear about how you feel. You can be truthful without being honest and you can be honest without being truthful (the latter a little more difficult). The best relationships, stating the painfully obvious, are both truthful and honest. Trust is built on both truth and honesty, tempered by the proof of predictability and reliability."

-ol' 2long

Passion:

Every WS goes through the same muddled thinking - they demonize their BS and desperately try to see their situation as unique. Typical, typical.

A "bad" BS is a deserving BS. "He/she deserves to have me step out. I've been hard done by; I deserve to step out." The reality is that very few BS are "bad". Neglectful, selfish, depressed even, but almost never bad. Sure they've done things to alienate the WS, but I'll bet my bank account that the overwhelming majority of BS felt as unfulfilled and empty in the M as the WS. What's the difference? The BS was still hoping or dreaming to have the WS meet those needs, whereas the WS had given up on that.

Very, very seldom has the BS intentionally done the things that the WS finds so offensive. Usually, the BS is clumsily trying to do the right thing; it just doesn't turn out that way.

I'm sure there are 2 sides to your story. You've given us yours; where is your H's? Could he speak of the things that you've done that hurt and alienated him?

Ah, but what about a more fundamental question - does it even matter? Does he even matter? Does he have any worth as a human being?

And that iss the crux of most WS posts here. They are so wrapped up in looking to validate and justify what they did that they forget the most important element - your spouse is a human being AND your equal. Their rights, hopes, dreams, and needs are very bit as valid and equal as yours.

Only, that validation reveals the whole flaw in "justifying" way of thinking: what goes around, comes around. Or, in Christian speak, "Do unto others".

The real issue is would you accept being treated (here and in the A) the way you've treated your spouse? Would you like to be betrayed, humiliated, invalidated and demonized? Would you like to be portrayed as an essentially "bad" person who got what they deserved by their spouses' betrayal?

The BS who are hard on you (and WS, too) are doing this to remind you of this, and to show that you are not more worthy than any of us. Your spouse, whom you've lied to, hurt, and essentially denigrated their entire existence is worthy of some basic human consideration.

The key is humility and empathy. We are not all perfect; we have no right to expect perfection of others. We should treat others as we would want to be treated. We should extend to others the same consideration and respect we seek. We should take a moment and try to consider the other's POV - "walk a mile in his moccasins" so to speak.

And, we should remember that we don't "get" from others before "giving" to others.

These last posting have to be the best messages I have received yet and I thank you. Last nite I ended up in St. Eliz's hospital, my heart was doing funky things. I am ok, it was giving out PVC's whatever that means and they had to give me a Beta Blocker and my blood pressure was 142/99. I think all of this is really starting to get to me in a bad way and I have made a few phone calls to talk to someone in my hometown. Thanks to all of you for your advice! I appreciate it.

Passion,
My husband said exactly the same things to me that you are saying to us. His OW was his friend for 25 years. They were in love before he married me 22 years ago. But, even though he said she was his soulmate, they were madly in love, meant to be together, given a second chance at love, etc. (And she was not married), as soon as contact ended between them, those feelings started to die. Now, he apologizes to me every day for the hurt he caused. He thanks me every day for standing by him. He shakes his head every time he thinks about how he allowed himself to create a fantasy that was real at the time, but without foundation. Have faith in the MB principles - they really work - just ask my FWH. He didn't trust it at first, but, was willing to give it a try. Oh, don't think it will be easy. He went through tremendous withdrawl from OW, cried alot, felt he could not carry on without her, but he persevered, the love for her died, and we have a better marriage now than we have ever had. Hang in there - your marriage deserves it. Rev.

Passion...good to hear you are doing OK. Stress, caused by all of what you are going through, can do that. Keep healthy.

Mizz...As a FWH, so desperately trying to rebuild trust in my W and rebuilding my M in the genesis of real recovery (if my W accepts my actions), I am terribly offended by your post. I have no right to be, but I am. Please don't generalize.

And out of curiosity, what advice would you be giving her?

Passion - Good to know you are serious here. There have been others that have come to this board only to mess with people so that's why I was a little bit leery.

Passion

I hope you are ok. Please look after yourself, try to relax.

Most of us have seen it many times: someone comes to the board, and it often takes a lot of time to convince them to take the right route towards recovery.

This is true for some BSs as well as WSs.

It can get quite frustrating for those of us who have been successful and only want to prevent further destruction to someone's family.

I admit I am one of those who sometimes resorts to tough love in my posts. I never intend to hurt anyone, but I know the fog can often be too thick for other methods.

It is incredibly satisfying when someone does have the strength to take action, and they often wonder why they didn't follow the advice sooner.

I sincerely hope you become one of the success stories.

Lots of love.

Passion:

You are in the same boat as my wife, well I found out everything from the hard way, reason is she came up to me and told me that she wants to divorce me, when I asked her what is the reason? she replied No More spark and she said that she dont love me anymore. First thing I asked is if there is THIRD party. She became so defensive and told me that I look at her very low. Well we've been together for 11th years and married for 9th years we have daughter gift from heaven 8th years old. How can you loose LOVE like never happened if there is no 3rd party. Well I dig, dig, dig, and I found lots of evidence but she still denies everything. I asked her to be honest? I am very Violent but I became so calm just to get answer. I told her that I just want to have an answer, she denies until I show that evidence and told her that If I keep on digging I will find more and I might do something really stupid and she dont want me to do something really stupid. Well good thing she admit everything and I was shock and I became so quiet and just gave her HUG and told her that thank you for being honest. Well she still trying to divorce me she choose the Affair over me, Read the SAA book and I stick on the Plan A. I know someday she will come back to me right now no matter what I do or try she will never let the door open. I just let her go cause I love her and she is my baby girls MOMMY. ( so be honest to your husband tell him the truth.

DO NOT LIE, THEY WILL FIND OUT ANYWAY...

PS. OM will never leave the wife he is just saying what you want to hear but TRUST ME he will never leave the wife, put that in your mind.

Liny, I'm having trouble understanding why you are offended by my post. I believe I stated that "some" here were the bestowers of grief and hostility to the WS. I didn't say "all". If people are still so upset with their BS or BS' OP, I would hope they could understand that their posts may be construed as less than helpful given the circumstances.
And Suzet, I'm not sure that I'll ever post my problems here. I will however, continue to read and study, and hopefully discern enough information to help me resolve the issues that I'm trying to cope with.
It would have been so helpful to have a place designated for WS. A place to gather, and hopefully have BS' that had surpassed the initial grief/anger stage and were really able to help those on the other side of the coin. I have read and found that this idea has been tossed around here and being that it's a Marriage Building site, some feel that a specific area would be glorifying those in the midst of an affair. I dare say that those that would have traveled over to such a site could affect the outcome of many relationships that are troubled where the WS seeks help, even before the BS finds out. Who for their own reasons need to try to understand what and why it happened. Coming to a place of their own volition and NOT because they were caught. Not to hide the fact. It takes a good bit to come on here and admit our own shortcomings. And, just for the record, unless we've been a WS, it seems unlikely that we would be able to imagine or empathize with the guilt, self loathing, disgust, or any other feeling that the WS may be trying to cope with. And perhaps the resulting loss could be frightening. Who knows? I don't presume to. I just look for answers.

Mizz

Mizz, Liny and I are both FWS.

I'll speak for Liny here and myself.

Liny and I have both been given nothing but support on this board. Liny's wife also posts here and we all support both of them.

I've never seen the need for a separate WS board. It's seeing both sides that is so helpful.

Jen

Mizz...thanks for responding.
The offense is self-inflicted--and goes along with why there shoould *not* be two separate boards.

kiwi said it short and sweet: nothing but support--even in my own setbacks, bad choices, and was still not being in complete recovery (until very recently), thinking I was above it all.

I do admire you for not posting and just taking it all in--it's difficult to stand on the sidelines. (And I mean that with no disrespect.)

However, that's where we--OK, I can't speak for all WS's--that's where I realize my shortcomings. I have a new perspective on fog, for me: I just thought I was above it all.

But it is so very important that we, as WS's, see what we've done. To realize the pain and suffering and abuse we have caused and generated. We need to see this. And we need to learn from that and make our choices based on past experiences. Yeah, the past is the past. But if we don't learn from it, then history means not a damn thing. The past doesn't mean anything. And we are never held accountable for we and we alone have caused.

This is so important for recovery. What does passion really want? Yeah, it's her decision--she still may waffle--she still may be "unsure" of her decisions. But, did you really expect BS's to not say anything? I don't want to be judgemental and refuse to be, except in my own sit and he11 I've created. But, IMHO, a WS needs to see this--having a separate board for WS's does nothing except create a bubble around the fog. Don't forget, it's our responsibility to regain the trust of the BS and make them feel safe again--not the other way around.

Don't protect her from the pain she's caused. This is the reality we, as WS's have created

Passion, how are you? I see you havenâ€™t posted since last week Thursdayâ€¦ Please let us know. We want to help you and we want to see you and your M recover.

Suzet

Hi Suzet, I am ok and thanks for the concern I only use this site when I am at work not from the home computer so I am only able to write Mon-Fri. I am ok I have to lay off the upper body exercises at the gym I went to my chiropractor this morning and my two ribs were popped out on the left side in the upper chest area and he thinks that is what could have caused it! So I have to lay off the arm exercises. Thank you for your concern I appreciate it!

Passion, but how are you?

I didn't mean to diminish your feelings. That wasn't my point. You have alot to work out. But you need to start acting on some things. There's no other "way out."

I began visiting Marriage Builders two years ago, however, I have not been back for almost a year. I am a FWW who appreciates the comments made by Mizz, Snowbelle, Liny, Heroswife, and Lemonman. All have made observations with which I can identify for one reason or another and find to be very helpful, honest, and compassionate. Thank you for that.

There are VERY few posts on this board made by WSs. I realize I am making a blanketed generalization, but the WSs who DO post on this website are frequently met with a great deal of scorn from broken-hearted BSs...which is an understandable reaction. Please, please, please try to understand that the majority of WSs are here for help. We ARE trying to save our marriages, and in many cases we are simply trying to survive our lives. Yes, the "mantra" of the WS who is in the fog stage sounds the same as all the rest. But remember, most BSs have not fulfilled their end of the bargain either and have been participating partners in the decline of the marriage. "I'm sorry I...ignored you, didn't show respect, was selfish, didn't appreciate you, abused you, destroyed your self-esteem, etc" is often the mantra the WS hears from the BS. Marriage Builders is for both BSs and WSs who are in all stages of disaster and recovery.

Passion, my heart still aches because I had a physical and emotional affair. I have been divorced for over a year, and I still cry almost everyday over the loss. Affairs are cowardly. My husband and I made mistakes that weakened our marriage which culminated in my having an affair. The aftermath has been ugly and has left me a crumbled mess. At 35, I feel completely broken and lost. Once the fog of the "fantasy" (or what you feel is the replacement relationship) disappears, you'll see the reality of the situation. Even if your husband is a piece of s*** who doesn't care about you or the marriage, and you ARE better off without him...YOU WILL STILL BEAR THE PAIN AND SHAME OF HAVING HAD AN AFFAIR.

Quit your job and have zero contact with the other man. He is a troubled individual who is going through his own issues right now. You cannot save him, and he cannot save you. Move away. You're going to have to sell your house anyway if you get divorced. Do it now instead while you still have a chance to save your marriage. Tell your husband that you have to go to counseling. Counseling will not solve everything, but you need a mediator to help you through this stage.

At some point you and your husband may decide to get divorced. You'll both deal with it when the time comes, BUT DO NOT BASE THAT DECISION ON ANOTHER MAN. It will destroy you, your husband, and your children.

[ November 22, 2004, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: tobs ]

Tobs:

I actually LOVE to post and exchange ideas with ladies like you. FWWs on this board have given me a great deal of hope and support when I need it the most. I have nothing but praise for the FWWs in this board. MB with out FWWs like you would not be the same. I wish there were more of you around! Welcome back!

This is a sidetrack:

As a result of my wife's affair I have developed some insecurity and low self-esteem. I hate to feel this way as I was never like this. In any event this has given me a lot of insight into why men and women with low self-esteem seek affairs. I can now understand why Passion feel the way she does and I am also able to relate to my wife in a better manner.

[ November 22, 2004, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]

Stanley568,

Thank you! I needed to hear something positive about myself!

And thank you for trying to understand the other side. Self-esteem or lack thereof greatly effects our behavior, actions and reactions to given situations.

My best to you and your wife.

Tobs:

You are a very young woman and I noted------ no kids from your prior marriage.

Why did you divorce? I guess this is easier to do when one is young without children. Perhaps, you can tell me what is like to be divorced in a nutshell. The reason I asked is that on D-day I was 100% sure I was divorcing my wife, but then changed my mind in view of kids (4 grown, one little). However, for several weeks I had internal struggles between reconciliation and divorce. I fell that Passion may benefit by hearing about what is like to leave. I may also get some useful info to reaffirm my decision to stay married.

[ November 22, 2004, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]

Stanley,

Why did we divorce? I didn't want the divorce because I still loved (and still love) my husband, but he said he needed the divorce in order to have some control over his life and the situation. I put him through the wringer over the course of ten months by breaking the no contact rule several times. Ironically, at the time I felt like I had no control over my life as well. My behavior was completely irrational and out of character. Even though I still worked and performed as I always had...I even initiated going into business for myself, I cried for hours daily, had thoughts of suicide, hated myself, and yet I still obsessed over seeing the OM. I didn't even recognize myself.

My BS was at wit's end, and I do not blame him for divorcing me. We were never really in recovery because I kept breaking the NC rule. In my defense, my husband behaved wildly during this period as well which did not facilitate healing. He forced me to have sexual relations with him through means of ultimatums and physical force. He said hateful, demeaning things to me that I thought I deserved because of what I had done. In short we both continued to hurt each other after D-Day and despite some self-discoveries through counseling, we were never able to start healing together. It was a vicious circle and we were never able to synchronize our desire to have a healthy relationship. Of course, there is much more to the story and the issues that led to the affair, but that is essentially why we divorced.

One major regret that I have is that I granted him a "quickie" divorce my going to Las Vegas. Within two weeks the papers were signed and it was over. I would never advise this to anyone. We were both in a highly emotional state at the time. In addition, I was being medicated for depression and although it helped somewhat, I was still in a haze and far from normal. No matter what the case, for emotional and financial considerations I believe divorce papers should never be signed any sooner than six months.

I miss my husband, and I miss the life we had. We were married for 7 1/2 years, but I've known him for 15 years. We had a home, a life, a future, and we were trying to start a family. My family is completely disfunctional and so I was looking forward to building our own loving, stable family with positive traditions. Thanks for the encouragement, Stanley, but 35 doesn't feel so "young" when you're divorced and childless! It hurts beyond belief knowing that I will probably never have a baby. It's just one more miserable pill to swallow.

I'm certain divorce is a huge relief for some people, and in loveless or dangerous relationships I believe it is wise to divorce. I know some people for whom divorce was a very good decision. In my situation, however, I regret it 100%. My husband and I loved each other, we made mistakes, and now I will always live with the consequences. The "what ifs" are constant. The reminders are always there...I have forgotten nothing. Movies, songs, trinkets, photos, jewelry, furniture, legal documents are all daily reminders. I've tried to eliminate some of those triggers, but it's impossible to eliminate them all and painful to do so. Sometimes I'll use a verbal expression that I picked up from him and it will just click in my brain. It's really maddening. I've tried to move on. I moved 1800 miles away. I now live in the same city as my oldest and dearest friend and have her support, but I still suffer through this alone because it's a solitary aching. It's hard to know what to do with the memories. He's a part of so many of my stories and experiences. It's like 15 years of my life just disappearing.

Stanley, I hope that if you and your wife still love each other that you will try to make it work. I don't believe any woman ever wakes up and just decides "today I'm going to start an affair." She's confused and probaly doesn't even know how she got to be in such a dark place. If she has low self-esteem already, her affair has probably made it even worse. When my husband DID try to be understanding and loving toward me after D-Day, I felt even worse because I felt like a whore who didn't deserve his love. Just recognize that your wife's guilt can be a huge barrier. To some degree, I think I kept breaking the NC because I didn't believe I deserved another chance with my husband and so I sabotaged myself over and over. It's all so damn complicated! Healing is a slow, long process. As an individual I'm not even close yet, but I hope it's in my future.

I don't know if this will help you or Passion in the least bit, but maybe, just maybe...

By the way, tobs is an acronym for "tired of being sad!"

[ November 22, 2004, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: tobs ]

Hi ALL:

If I can only save my marriage I will do anything to pay the price. Everything I missed or everything I've done I will try to make it up with my wife. Yesterday I visit my wife's house to picked up my stuff and I asked her if she love the OM? She reply that she does love him so much and she said she don't need me anymore. I guess she made her final decision and she is filing for the divorce. I love my wife so much eventhough she admit that she loves the OM I will still always love her. This MB website helps me a lot on my DOWN feelings and makes my day keep going. Holidays is coming up and I will be alone in my Apt. and I think Holidays is the worst feeling I will get. But because of every body here on MB forum, I will be OK, the only thing I can do is to call my daughter and make sure she is OK with out me in my wife's house with her parents. I think when the FOG start clearing up my wife will be back in my arms again. I would like to say THANK YOU for every body that POST comment and HAPPY THANKS GIVING DAY.

tobs, thanks for sharing your sit. I'm in no position to give any advice, but, as an observation, it must be tough for you to relive your sit. Passion, I hope you are reading.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />...and so I sabotaged myself over and over.<hr /></blockquote>I hope and pray you will start learning how to stop beating yourself up. You seem to be a very insightful, thoughtful, caring woman. And you probably learned this the "hard way." Any WS could be there next. It's when we realize this.
And our actions afterwards. Just in your words, you seem to have started to find those actions. But you can't continually to beat yourself up. Does no good. Been there, and it's a struggle I deal with everyday too. The "what if's" and "if only's". Can't do anything about them now. But it's my actions now that will rebuild (discover) me and will rebuild my M. And it starts with complete "radical" honesty. Have you been with yourself? Again, it sounds like it. So, don't keep beating yourself! (See? Not advice: a demand! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Thanks for the kind words before. I've got a lot of trust rebuilding to do with everyone in my life. It's amazing what honesty will do!

Passion, thanks for your reply! Iâ€™m sorry to hear about your medical problems. However, what I was really concerned about was to hear how you are doing emotionally. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> As LINY has asked â€“ how are you? How are you coping with all your emotions right now? Is any of the posts on this thread really helpful to you?

Tobs, you indeed sound like a very insightful, caring and compassionate woman... With the lessons youâ€™ve learned and all the wisdom youâ€™ve gained from your experience, you can be of so much help to passion and many other people on this board. Iâ€™m glad youâ€™ve joined this thread and forum! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet

[ November 23, 2004, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]