I know...she left after 10 wonderful days...she's not happy with herself....etc. FWW doesn't want a divorce...30 days with no contact is what she wants....I'm trying to be strong....got a bit drunk tonight with an ole buddy....that don't help...but? Maybe I'll write a country song.
Welderboy
Hang in there. Keep posting as needed to relieve some of the strees.
RHM
Hey...this has been going on for 13 months...I don't think I'll work Thursday...my mind is toast. This is our 4th false recovery...I saw my IC last night...she said to take care of myself...etc. But i just want peace and rest...Pray for Deb and I, please.
I'll pray for the both of you. Look at the wedding ring post just below this to get a idea of what I went threw. My W's last one went from jan 04 thru dec 04. It's hard and it takes time. Did you IC give meds to help? Get to the gym and work some of the flustrasion off.
RHM
Yep...Prozac. I'm going to take work off today...maybe I'll head to my families....I just feel so lost even thought this is the 4th time.
I know the lost feeling. The hopeless feeling. The confuseed feeling. Yep I get them all. We all do and it's normal. I hope you have a good day off. I'v edone allot of reading and there has been a post lately talking about wemons mid-life crisses. They really need to know that they are still attractive. Unfortinately nothing we say to our wives seem to help them. They have this need to hear it from some one else. I guess guys get that ich too. Hang in there. I hope she comes around and you two become the happiest couple.
RHM
Well...I finally got to sleep last night , and things do seem a bit better with the new day. Maybe, I really don't need any of this? Heck, I guess I'll try to go "dark" and just learn to take care of myself for awhile.
Hey Guys...my thread 10 days ago, telling that Deb was coming home again...someone responded that i let back in again to easily...without her making amends. Today she phoned twice...said she was worried about me, that she wanted time alone...to sort her head out, then we should start counceling together, date and work things out prior to her coming home. Funny how she has'nt done any of this, MC or weekend seminars that I wanted and offered to attend during the 13 months of our seperation, but now seems to me, like a way to keep me hanging on. I'm tired...and starting to think, that this isn't worth the trouble.
No thoughts? I figured I would at least get a "I told you" from someone. Anyhow...she called me yesterday afternoon and invited me over to her brothers where she is staying...it was her Mom's birthday and she asked if I wanted to stop for a family pizza party? She had just moved out 16hrs. earlier and now asked me this? Anyhow, in her talk she said she was worried about me...and was wanting to get herself together...and then start counceling etc., I've heard this before....and I told her I thought that if she was going to work on our marriage...she has had months to do so, but has'nt taken me up on any suggestions to do the same. I feel as if she is just giving me enough hope to keep me holding on...I feel tired and broken...but a bit at peace coming home tonight. Maybe it's time for me to file.
WB,
Maybe its time for a D? Well maybe it is but maybe first its time for a real plan B! Maybe its time for a true period of total no contact! Maybe its time to write the letter and mean it.
Maybe its time to dedicate yourself to a program and this time see it through until there are no more maybes. Maybe next time she calls you shouldn't answer the phone! Maybe you should decide to put "it" all on the back burner and go on with your life for a while, dedicating yourself to learning to explore yourself and re-introduce yourself to yourself.
And here's a really good idea. Maybe its time to stop thinking in terms of maybe and to start thinking in definative terms for a change and to begin seeking ways to make that change a posative change in your life and a change that's for you and just you. To decide what you want your life to be and what you want your marraige to be.
Maybe....?
Coach
I think coach is telling you to make a plan and stick to it. Why don't you go to a IC and have them help you with one. As you go back they can hold you accountable to your plan and help you to readjust it if needed. Best of luck.
RHM
I guess....no not guessing...I know what I want, but she don't. Is love enough to be patient and wait? I know...love is patient , kind etc....but her's has'nt been for me only....Thanks, Coach...yes I need a plan.
You know...today, I rediscovered that I'll again, be OK with or without FWW. This 13 month ordeal has made me a better person, and I'm truly going to try and think of myself for the next few weeks.
good for you! I hope you continue to realize what a wonderful person you are. I will keep you in my thoughts. Best wishes.
Big W
That's the spirit. So what's first? I can't stay now but I'll check back in about 10 hrs.
RHM
Oh yea I could use some advice on the male problem post. Thanks!
Sunday, will be church. I worked 12 hrs. today inside a tank, grinding and welding...but the friend I was working with knows both of us, and is a good christian that has been praying, and encouraging me all along. I've only got FWW to go to church with me 1 time this year after our longest seperation...when she admitted of the A and came home for the 1st of now 5 false recoveries. Also...another good friend..invited me to stop at the bowling lanes on my way from work...I was introduced to a single lady and her son...I guess...people are match makers? It did make me feel good to hear that she said " he's a good looking guy" to my friends date.PS...I kind of liked her look also.
Hi WB ~
Hmmmmm....5 false recoveries. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Coach gives some great advice. Pick a plan. And maybe ask yourself too: Do I still want to keep trying after all this? She has put you through a lot.
Plan B protects mostly you. Protection from this back and forth before your W is commited to your M and keeps hurting you. It can take a long time. It's a great plan though. If you are going to do this, be strong and stick with it, even when she sends you messages that says "I miss you." Know what I mean? She needs to be more committed than that before she can come back. And no, inviting you to pizza isn't commitment (right?!). It's just cake-eating.
You've also earned the right to say "I've had enough and I've tried everything I can handle." It's ok if you've reached a place that says your W is choosing a life that you can't control and you want to move on. Only you can decide what path to take and either one is difficult.
Dr. Harley says in one of his books that a BS has the right to say I want out of the M after an A.
Last I heard before this last reconcile, you were in the garage with the dog and things were getting [censored] and span. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Hopefully when you return, you'll be thinking of what is best for WB to be happy again. Hang in there.
PS - I'll say a prayer at church tomorrow for you. Take care,
GS
Thanks GS...hey this evening, I logged on to "our" cell phone billing...I think, that I may now start to understand this reoccurring "fog", I think...?? she is having sometype of at least EA with a co-worker...she has referred to this guy as a friend before, but maybe he was where she turned after being busted on the 1st. A. Kind of makes sense...I got a little more research to do before I'm 100% convinced. Later.
Also...the Bible says I can go on after wife has done an A.
The back & forth thing sounds like a WW in some kind of A. Were there a lot of calls to the co-worker...like more than just a casual thing?
Big W
Someone had a post on here last week from a lady that used plan B on her WH. She started Droping hints of going out herself by making her self unavailable to her WH. The dates were not real(she would go some where for a while so WH didn't know what was going on). He started rethinking and tried to win her back. It might be to late with five FR's. If you do decide to move on cut of all contact with W. I wouldn't blame you as a christian myself. Sorry you had to go through this. It's not right or fair. Hang on, you'll make it.
<small>[ March 13, 2005, 01:00 AM: Message edited by: RHM ]</small>
Wb
I was worried this would all fall flat on its face as you really did let her back the 5th time AGAIN with no conditions.
So I guess you have two paths, kick her to the curb and say too bad so sad goodbye or you can work on the M BUT with some tough conditions.
The false recoveries are where you let yourself down WB so if you want to do this then get a PLAN.
Maybe a mix of plan B and going out and having some fun - not getting drunk and sh8t faced - been there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> - no, more of a moving on while being prepared to discuss the conditons of a reconcilation.
I'm not saying go out shagging WB but you could get to know some new people and let her SEE that you are doing this and are no longer at her beck and call. To be blunt she is using you to provide emotional support and caring while she is running around having fun & maybe SF with others. Now it looks as if she has someone NEW???? Man how many times do you bang your head into a brick wall????
Wish I could give you a magic wand to fix things but dont have one. You need to start looking after yourself WB ignoring her until she is ready to commit.
If she is not ready when you want to move on then thats her loss.
Really sorry it happened.
I'm sorry this happened again too.
Hope you make some choices which will prevent you from suffering through another painful false recovery.
She's troubled Welder, and I don't think you are helping her by being her safety net. She needs to fall without a net so that God can do His work.
Get out of the way.
Sorry Welderboy.
Thanks all, yes, the calls are way more than casual...like 25 min. talks. Late times...etc., the 1st A started as a phone thing...that after 6 months ended up a PA. I know it's time to get tough....trouble is I so caring. But I do realize it's inside her that where she needs to find her happiness. The Lord has worked at this...but she keeps it from happening. Later...out to church now.
Hey...I got home from church. I shed a few tears...but not the I want my marriage back kind, sort of the "I'm sorry about her" kind. You know, what a shame. Stopped by my parents for lunch...they really respect that I'm not bitter...said they're proud of me! Also. friends girlfriend called and said the lady I met last night wanted me to call her. I'm surely not ready...but I guess she is a real "talker" and things might feel good having someone to talk to. Any thoughts?.
WB,
Just keep your focus. What may seem like venting to someone new may lead you down a dangerous path. It depends what your goal is. Last fall I could have taken a situation with another woman as far as I wanted. It was all up to me. I passed on it and we are both glad for that now. I'm not suggesting that you would do that intentionally, but emotions are powerful forces when put into play. I'm a firm believer in finishing one relationship before starting another. I say this to you from experience and don't mean any disrespect by it. Hope it helps and things get better for you. Take care of yourself and pray for God's strength and guidance in all things and always for His will to be done, not yours. Trust in Him, always. RDL
Amen...I' knew what I should do, and thanks for the support. W phoned and...and I spoke with her.
I know that it's not the plan I should of taken, but she also wants us to be left apart so she can search her heart. She also said, "I love you".
I forgot to mention...FWW said she was hoping she could find happiness while away from me. She said she loves me and likes aall the little special things we do together. She also is reading a book on co-dependent relations...what's that? But...she said she just felt...she would fine hapiness easier and sooner on her own...rather than here with me...said that after "finding it" she wanted to decide to start MC...date and get things right prior to coming home. Anyone, have a clue where she is heading?
I agree with RDL. If you are going to pursue this lady let go of the other relationship first. Your wife might be hoping you go for someone so that a D would look better in court for her. If you do talk to her make shure she knows how vulneralble you feel and what your concerns are. I think as long as your married you should keep some distance. Talk to your preacher about this. I hope what ever you decide you find the love you seek. Take care untill next time.
WB
where is she heading???? shes heading over to the new guy and drinking from that well I'm afraid.
Same old story same old actions from her.
I hate giving up on anything WB but I do think weaver had it right this time... get out of it.
End it now.
Then see this other lady, or other ladies, h*ll see your Xw if you want to, BUT finish this story now before it destroys you.
IF she wants you and not as a nice safe security blanket then she'll go do all the things to get herself up to where you want a spouse to be.
I just doubt she wants to do it. Now anyway
Wow Aussie, you don't seem to realize the love I have for my wife. She called the shop today...and one of the guys answered and called me to the phone. She told me she just wanted her life back then she would see what to do about me. The reason she phoned was to tell me she ended the cell phone account with me...cause she didn't like me keeping tabs on it. I told her if she didn't love me, didn't want to ever see me, or me to be her husband...just say so...and I'd be done. She replied "why does it always come to this?"...can't I just give her time to sort her feelings out? I said I didn't want to control her or check up...it's just that after all she put us thru...trust is earned and not given. She said...what she did broke our vows but although I never cheated...I did bad things in our marriage years before the A. I love Christ Jesus...and my wife...so I'm laying this in his hands and the decision of what I do next will come from there. Please pray for Deb., Mrs.WB..I told her in closing all that I wanted was to be the best H, and love her. Thanks.
WB,
Your posts are rapidly becoming a testament to the concept of pathetic. Will you please at least read and then re-read what you’ve written here?
Your WW is telling you that she needs a little vacation from her marriage to make herself feel better or what ever, and all she’s asking is that you wait patiently for her until what? Until she gets “IT†out of her system, what ever “it†happens to be? Until she decides to come home and be a faithful wife?
She tells you that she needs to be out having some fun and is literally asking not just for your forbearance but for your approval! Are you getting this WB? It’s not enough that she’s come and gone 5 times, ripping out your guts! Now she wants you to approve of it all. What next? Maybe she’ll want you to thank her for her for showing such consideration to herself on her own behalf, because after all; you love her right? And if you really love her you should be grateful for anything that makes her happy!?
Say, here’s an idea. Why don’t you just invite her to come back home to live so you can observe first hand how happy dating OM makes her feel? So tell me WB what’s wrong with this idea?
Your WW needs time to find herself, yet half the guys in town don’t seem to be having any trouble finding her so how lost can she be? Sorry WB but the only lost soul in this little saga is you! She seems to know where she’s going and how to get there with no problem at all. Now how about you? Can’t you think of somewhere you’d rather be?
Coach
PS. I know that this post is less then subtle but really WB, you have to wake up!
Hey Coach...one thing for sure is I'm not bitter.
Have you ever heard of a man named Jesus...he once said ...hate the sin, but love the sinner.Maybe, she is'nt seeing anyone...and she is by the way, staying at her brother's...not running bars and hustling guys.
WB,
However, by your own admission there is someone else in her live or at least in her phone system and it is not you. She is canceling the phone so YOU cannot check up on her while she figures out what she wants. Yet, she has come and gone 5 times and she is gone now.
You say you are tired of it. You ask HER if she wants a divorce, but you did NOT ask the correct question. She may NOT want a divorce, but she does NOT want the marriage or you. Her ACTIONS say this very very clearly. Perhaps it is time you really gave her the space she seeks and at the same time gave yourselve the ability to lead your life with someone who cares for you.
You should NOT be asking her if she wants a divorce. You should be asking yourself is this the marriage I want? Is this marriage really going to make it? Is there ANY evidence that she cares enough for you to be your W? Answer those questions for yourself and then act accordingly.
This is YOUR call not hers. If you are happy with the situation or willing to settle for it, then fine accept it as what you are going to get. But whether you decide to accept this behavior or you don't like it, it is NOT HER CALL. It is your call.
As for hating the sin, but loving the sinner, you are missing something here. Her leaving is NOT a sin. Her affair was, but which time did she leave for that. You claim she is NOT leaving because of the affair now, so there is no sin. She just does not want to live with you or love you. She has made that very clear.
So the question is NOT about sin, but about what YOU will accept in the way of a marriage. You have tried your best to rebuild it, and it has failed because she does NOT want to rebuild it. Don't you think that is a message? Don't you think she has the right to do what she is doing? She does. What you have not figured out is that you have the right to make choices too, and frankly you are avoiding making hard decisions as much as she is.
So decide to accept what you have or decided to make a decision. It is your call, but she cannot help you and neither can we.
Please think about this.
God Bless,
JL
Wow, I guess this morning getting out of bed and reading this, it time to let go, and rest assured that even though there has been many false recoveries...they where all good plan A's. I'll truly pull away...work on myself, pray for her and let the Lord work this out. I know in my heart...she left, but she knows it's not my heart that needs the fix, it's hers. Pray for both her and I. Thanks all.
WB
I dont think anyone doubts you love her unconditionally. The trouble is its one way. You know in live love happens like that soemtimes, you love someone who only likes you or loves you like a brother.
No one has said she isnt capable of loving you as aH, but she does not seem prepared to even put the effort in.
THATS why I suggested it was time to let go and move on, for your future. Is that easy, GOD NO> Will you hurt worse whne you di that than now, YES, will you get better yes yes yes.
Your very open dependance on your WW is making it very easy for her to leave and manipulate you, becasue lets face it WB, she is doing that.
IF she wants you she'll come runnning sooner or later.
Start moves to leave the M, seek a separation agreement whatever, but start the ball rolling and STOP being there for her every time she rings. calls or leaves a message.
Sometimes shock to the system is what a WS needs, why not start going out & let her see YOU have options as well.
NOTHING else is working.
WB,
I think you are missing our point. Aussie stated it well. I'll try it a bit differently. You don't have to "let go". You don't have to leave your marriage. You don't have to accept this.
What you HAVE to do is make some decisions.
1. Have you done your best to rebuild this marriage ? If yes, then you can have no regrets. If no, then perhaps more effort and focus is required. If she is contact with OM, then given all that has happened plan B is what you should do.
2. Has she given you any indication that anything has happened other than her conscience gets to her occasionally and she comes home for a day or perhaps a week, before leaving having had her fix of you?
3. Are you happy with this situation?
4. Do you want to move on and if so how?
5. Do you see a future for yourself beyond your W or if your W decides to leave? She is basically telling you that this is her decision time. You can wait for her or you can start making decisions as well.
I realize that you love your W. I realize that you want her in your life. What you have to decide is under what conditions you would accept her in your life. These are the decisions YOU need to make. If you have done as good a plan A as you can and you did it each time she left and even while she is gone, then it is probably time for plan B until SHE decides or YOU decide what YOUR future is going to be.
Does this make sense? I hope so.
God Bless,
JL
Thanks JL, yes this makes sense. Most likely if I had stuck to my guns on occassions, with only letting her back if she met certain conditions this would have been over by now. Today was tough at work as a co-worker, 1 of 11 in my shop did'nt show up for work 2 days in a row. I called and tried to reach him...ended up calling his sister, who had the police let her in, finding him...ended his life. He had never got over the hard D he had after he caught his WW in the act...he had been very depressed and maybe 2 months ago started some kind of AD? Made me realize how small my troubles are. So...how do I convince FWW? that knows my love is so great, that she can't run over me forever? I've told her in the past, that I'm waiting and not giving up on her. Thanks. I think er...know I'm ready for NC as so to let her think...all my past get backs were without any LB...other than my lack of trust.
WB,
You don't convince her of anything WB. That is the sad fact. She has to figure this out on her own. That is why all of us are on you to start making decisions for YOUR life. If at some time she really can commit, then she will approach you, and IF you have any love left then perhaps there will be hope.
But, WB, she is pulling away right now and there is nothing you can do to "convince" her of anything. You have stood by her for 5 comings/goings. If she doesn't know now, then she may never know, that you love her.
WB, you are missing something very very important. This is NOT about her thinking you don't love her. This is about her NOT loving you. I hate to phrase it this way, but you have nothing to prove. You have nothing to do, other than to be a kind, and good fellow to your friends and family. There is nothing you can do for her. Hence it is time for YOU to make decisions and start to move on with your life.
If you do you won't be running so fast that she cannot catch you IF she wants to. The only issue will be whether or not you have moved on to other people and a better life. You met that woman the other day right? You sort of liked her. Well, you are married right now and you are off limits to her, and she is off limits to you NOW. That is why decisions need to be made.
Don't start dating while married. It just makes a mess of things. Move along with your decisions. Your W is not under your control and she never will be even if she decides to come back.
So back up and focus on your life. I am very sorry to hear about your friend. I had a friend do the same thing when he found his W with another man. It really hurt the kids to find out that 'Mom' could do this to a their dedicated father, and that he would end it all in deep dispair about losing his HS sweetheart after 20+ years of marriage.
Do you see why we are suggesting you start getting on with your life? I hope so.
God Bless,
JL
Sorry Welderboy, I need 'Just Learning' for a minute.
Would you mind going to Finally Learning's thread, I have a question there for you.
By the way, worthwhile advice you just gave our good man, Welderboy.
Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Thanks JL...you really have a touch about making thing easy to understand..I've had a long day, and I'm going to grab a book and head to bed. I think a plan B letter, stating that by now she can see the amount of my love....but let her know that I too deserve more and need to not let go, but take care of myself...basically what she is doing, she said she 1st. wanted her life back, then perhaps start MC and dating if she decides to return. Should I mention...meeting someone, but not acting on it? Later, I'll check in prior to work. Thanks.
WB,
I don't think you should mention anything other than your need to preserve the love, and your realization that she does NOT love you hence her need to find herself, and then perhaps work on the marriage.
If ever there was a non-commitale statement that is it. However, it is clear she does need to address her own demons, so don't completely discount this. However, she needs to do it WITHOUT you in her life. So plan B seems like just the ticket. You will go through withdrawal as perhaps she will but hang in there.
You will find that the correct course of action will become clear to you while in plan B.
God Bless,
JL
JL, well put, I really seem to undestand the way you put things much easier. I slept good, and once again want to thank everyone for their part in helping me. Later, I check in tonight.