Plan B without confirmation of A? -and -I am so down, the dumps are WAAY UPP - 03/16/05 08:16 PM
I want to tell my story again. Maybe with more details, or just more of the right ones. I am so lost right now. Please, I need support, and maybe I can handle some 2x4s, but only if they are not used too harshly.
I want to Plan B, but not sure if I would "Caren" it. I feel like I do not have enuf proof of A, although I am 99.9% sure of EA, and H will NOT admit to anything. I am so unsure of myself on so many levels and I do not like feeling this way.
But on to my story.. I met my H when my daughter was around 4. He wanted kids more than anything..his 1st M, they were young, 2nd M never was to right person (he claims) and she could not have kids...
We discussed having another kid almost from the beginning. I always joke that he married me because I was fertile and I Md him because he was stable (financially and otherwise). He loved (and still does) my D as much as a person can without being the "actual" biological parent. Her bio dad (as my friends call him, sperm donor) has never been around (~ 2x on his own before she was 13). That is another story but it has MUCH bearing on my decisions for my family.
The following is a past post of mine... edited for clarity...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In 03, we were having lots of problems. - Before this even though, I have not had many of my needs met for a very long time and had tried begging, yelling, logical arguments, threatening. ... I know now, albeit not by his own admission, that many of my H's needs were not being met either. - He became even more distant and irritable with me that year. And went on a business trip, over my B-day, without me, although I really wanted to go. He was rather insistent that I didn't go and I didn't push it too hard. We went out to celebrate my B-day, the Fri. before he left - to dinner and home before 9:00. Before I went to put young S to bed, I even asked my H if he would stay up and watch a movie with me (one of my problems with him was that he was in bed by 9 or so always, never giving us time together and we rarely went out). By 9:15, when I came downstairs, he was asleep- in bed with the light off. I was very hurt. He woke up at about 1:00 AM and irritably approached me, with "I guess you're mad now, huh?!" I said "No, just really hurt" and an argument ensued....
This business trip caused a lot of arguing before and after. We both did lots of LBing. When he got promotion few yrs ago, H also got “secretary†but don’t call her that , H gets defensive, really she has a title. Only time I have really been jealous, was when this woman called my H at home and asked for H by pet name, not identifying herself - H said I was silly and this led to more discussions/arguments about this woman. I am including this background to say I do not think that I am overall jealous person, but can be at times. I know NOTHING about the people he works with, except what he tells me. He RARELY speaks of work or coworkers, but told many stories about this woman as soon as he started working with her. At first, I was just glad that he was talking, then I realized that it was only about her. H says it's because she was first person to work "for" him.
I really started believing after that trip that H was having EA or PA, EA more likely. Lots of little subtle clues and gut - no real proof. Maybe , just maybe my insecurities and his withdrawal and neglect.
I eventually - 3 months after trip- put a recording device in his car. In the first two days, I overheard one side of conversations in which he was saying how unhappy he was and how awful I was. H denies to this day that he was talking to anyone, states that he was talking to self.
I am not a holder-inner, and what I heard devastated me. Basically, my H was trashing how bad his life is, mostly because of me and the kids and horses - but it was all my fault!! He at one point said that .." I know that cleaning stalls is no fun job but, you you have to see things from my perspective..." - he was talking about the fact that I clean stalls but don't do enough inside at night. In another conversation he said “ Maybe I should talk to her [me], explain that I don’t love her anymore and that we are complete oppositesâ€. He went on that he was trapped and he has to do everything ( so not true ) and he is miserable and again it was all my ( “horse-girl‘s †) fault. And much more Not to mention that I can hear a woman's voice in the tape twice, answering him. One specialist that cleaned up the tape said that there was quite possibly two-way radios used.
Anyway, I threw him out for a week, took him back, went to MC, and I tried Plan A eventually after realizing that some of his hurtful "overheard" comments were a plea for better domestic help from me.I didn't find this site for awhile and was "winging' it. I've always worked hard at home (small part-time job outside of home) but more outside work than inside. I thought that I was doing him a favor, since we have horses and small acreage (I wanted that). He had even griped tha he had too much to do outside before. But I was neglecting laundry and cooking and some housecleaning. I have done better since last year, except for cooking and that just depends on circumstances, but I do not like to cook.
I have never found any other "real" evidence of an affair, and tend to think that he was close, but never went any further than what I heard. My problem now is his dishonesty about the whole thing and the fact that although I really think that he wants to be with me, he won't listen to or respond to my needs.
Please don't tell me to forget it and go on. Honesty and Openness has always been one of my biggest needs and my H is not an open person to begin with. But downright lying is a bitter pill and I cannot/will not swallow it. Of course he has lied before: about both big and little things and almost always to stay out of trouble. He is a true conflict avoider! And I am quite the opposite, just let"s get it all out....and deal with the consequences.
I have read enough to know that I can't change him, only myself. I honestly have changed and continue to try to better myself, for my M and life, in general. Now what? I keep hitting a brick wall!! I have strongly encouraged H to lurk here, really pushed, trying not to actually get too pushy. He says that he sees nothing that pertains to "us".
I have bought all the books, found recreations for us(taking swing-dancing), printed out many articles and threads.
HELP....Now what?! If I just let well enough alone, he would say everything is fine. If I bring up problems, he says I am too negative. I have let things go, slightly encouraged talk and time.., tried EVERYTHING (well, probably not everything)..I have recently been thinking about a comment on a recent MB thread, "he doesn't trust ..[ME].. " . This is so true and I have contributed to that in the past, with my LBs and angry outbursts, really am doing better since I found this site, but still not perfect, of course.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am sorry that this is so long. I really need help.
I have now become very withdrawn from my H. I talked to him about a separation again. Told him that I do not know what to do anymore. I feel like this is very unfair to him though, in some ways. He states that he loves me and does not want to give up, and does not want to be a part-time dad. I really do understand the fathering part, and he is a very good dad. And my kids, what about them?! They really need some stability!! But i really don't think that this can go on indefinitely, I am very unhappy. Miserable, really. I went back on Prozac, but I don't think that is the real answer, it just keeps me from feeling TOO DEEP.
PLEASE ADVISE!!!
Thanks,
jls
I want to Plan B, but not sure if I would "Caren" it. I feel like I do not have enuf proof of A, although I am 99.9% sure of EA, and H will NOT admit to anything. I am so unsure of myself on so many levels and I do not like feeling this way.
But on to my story.. I met my H when my daughter was around 4. He wanted kids more than anything..his 1st M, they were young, 2nd M never was to right person (he claims) and she could not have kids...
We discussed having another kid almost from the beginning. I always joke that he married me because I was fertile and I Md him because he was stable (financially and otherwise). He loved (and still does) my D as much as a person can without being the "actual" biological parent. Her bio dad (as my friends call him, sperm donor) has never been around (~ 2x on his own before she was 13). That is another story but it has MUCH bearing on my decisions for my family.
The following is a past post of mine... edited for clarity...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In 03, we were having lots of problems. - Before this even though, I have not had many of my needs met for a very long time and had tried begging, yelling, logical arguments, threatening. ... I know now, albeit not by his own admission, that many of my H's needs were not being met either. - He became even more distant and irritable with me that year. And went on a business trip, over my B-day, without me, although I really wanted to go. He was rather insistent that I didn't go and I didn't push it too hard. We went out to celebrate my B-day, the Fri. before he left - to dinner and home before 9:00. Before I went to put young S to bed, I even asked my H if he would stay up and watch a movie with me (one of my problems with him was that he was in bed by 9 or so always, never giving us time together and we rarely went out). By 9:15, when I came downstairs, he was asleep- in bed with the light off. I was very hurt. He woke up at about 1:00 AM and irritably approached me, with "I guess you're mad now, huh?!" I said "No, just really hurt" and an argument ensued....
This business trip caused a lot of arguing before and after. We both did lots of LBing. When he got promotion few yrs ago, H also got “secretary†but don’t call her that , H gets defensive, really she has a title. Only time I have really been jealous, was when this woman called my H at home and asked for H by pet name, not identifying herself - H said I was silly and this led to more discussions/arguments about this woman. I am including this background to say I do not think that I am overall jealous person, but can be at times. I know NOTHING about the people he works with, except what he tells me. He RARELY speaks of work or coworkers, but told many stories about this woman as soon as he started working with her. At first, I was just glad that he was talking, then I realized that it was only about her. H says it's because she was first person to work "for" him.
I really started believing after that trip that H was having EA or PA, EA more likely. Lots of little subtle clues and gut - no real proof. Maybe , just maybe my insecurities and his withdrawal and neglect.
I eventually - 3 months after trip- put a recording device in his car. In the first two days, I overheard one side of conversations in which he was saying how unhappy he was and how awful I was. H denies to this day that he was talking to anyone, states that he was talking to self.
I am not a holder-inner, and what I heard devastated me. Basically, my H was trashing how bad his life is, mostly because of me and the kids and horses - but it was all my fault!! He at one point said that .." I know that cleaning stalls is no fun job but, you you have to see things from my perspective..." - he was talking about the fact that I clean stalls but don't do enough inside at night. In another conversation he said “ Maybe I should talk to her [me], explain that I don’t love her anymore and that we are complete oppositesâ€. He went on that he was trapped and he has to do everything ( so not true ) and he is miserable and again it was all my ( “horse-girl‘s †) fault. And much more Not to mention that I can hear a woman's voice in the tape twice, answering him. One specialist that cleaned up the tape said that there was quite possibly two-way radios used.
Anyway, I threw him out for a week, took him back, went to MC, and I tried Plan A eventually after realizing that some of his hurtful "overheard" comments were a plea for better domestic help from me.I didn't find this site for awhile and was "winging' it. I've always worked hard at home (small part-time job outside of home) but more outside work than inside. I thought that I was doing him a favor, since we have horses and small acreage (I wanted that). He had even griped tha he had too much to do outside before. But I was neglecting laundry and cooking and some housecleaning. I have done better since last year, except for cooking and that just depends on circumstances, but I do not like to cook.
I have never found any other "real" evidence of an affair, and tend to think that he was close, but never went any further than what I heard. My problem now is his dishonesty about the whole thing and the fact that although I really think that he wants to be with me, he won't listen to or respond to my needs.
Please don't tell me to forget it and go on. Honesty and Openness has always been one of my biggest needs and my H is not an open person to begin with. But downright lying is a bitter pill and I cannot/will not swallow it. Of course he has lied before: about both big and little things and almost always to stay out of trouble. He is a true conflict avoider! And I am quite the opposite, just let"s get it all out....and deal with the consequences.
I have read enough to know that I can't change him, only myself. I honestly have changed and continue to try to better myself, for my M and life, in general. Now what? I keep hitting a brick wall!! I have strongly encouraged H to lurk here, really pushed, trying not to actually get too pushy. He says that he sees nothing that pertains to "us".
I have bought all the books, found recreations for us(taking swing-dancing), printed out many articles and threads.
HELP....Now what?! If I just let well enough alone, he would say everything is fine. If I bring up problems, he says I am too negative. I have let things go, slightly encouraged talk and time.., tried EVERYTHING (well, probably not everything)..I have recently been thinking about a comment on a recent MB thread, "he doesn't trust ..[ME].. " . This is so true and I have contributed to that in the past, with my LBs and angry outbursts, really am doing better since I found this site, but still not perfect, of course.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am sorry that this is so long. I really need help.
I have now become very withdrawn from my H. I talked to him about a separation again. Told him that I do not know what to do anymore. I feel like this is very unfair to him though, in some ways. He states that he loves me and does not want to give up, and does not want to be a part-time dad. I really do understand the fathering part, and he is a very good dad. And my kids, what about them?! They really need some stability!! But i really don't think that this can go on indefinitely, I am very unhappy. Miserable, really. I went back on Prozac, but I don't think that is the real answer, it just keeps me from feeling TOO DEEP.
PLEASE ADVISE!!!
Thanks,
jls