Man ! Months almost alone in Britain and I see loads of UK marriagebuilders here now ! Just like British Buses !

Check in here, so we can support each other in our own timezone and moan about how hard it is to get decent pro marriage MC in Britain !


I'll Kickoff

I'm A 41 year old BH from the Midlands of England. D-day 21st July 2004. FWW is Squid ! In recovery now thank God !

Alphin reporting, bOb.

36, WH left in early April, lives with OW, plan A in progress, two DDs 5 and 12.

(Still haven't rung MarriageCare, bOb - *awaits another 2x4*)

37 Fww..been actively building for nearly 10 months.

I had my husband on a pedestal from day one. I was neglected for 14 years and I sadly lapped up attention and strayed outside into an inappropriate EA/PA

Husband and I having a wonderful relationship now...completely different from our relationship before and I feel like a different person.

Happy, alive, communicating and in love.

MB was a life saver.

**RELATE were useless** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Live in the South-east, grew up Scots.

Three years post d-day; H has buckled down to personal rehabilitation with determination; I have become increasingly aware of how unhealthy our situation was for all those years, and how lonely life with H is, even now.

This whole debacle has forced me to sort out my own problems, in particular the fallout from an emotionally abused childhood. I am much stronger, much sadder, and I enjoy life a lot less.

(Feeling deeply jaundiced today, after a dispiriting week with H. Sorry.)

TogetherAlone

Almost the same timezone (1 hour diff) here in Belgium, can I join in ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi - is a relatively foggy FWS welcome here?

W has had 3 EAs during our M, I had a 5 month E&PA (Dec - Apr), ended it & confessed 3 weeks ago. Am in withdrawal, maintaining NC, v. unusure about the future of our M (huge problems before A), but hanging on in faith. W is devastated, and unsure about wanting to stay together - also hanging on in faith. Both feeling v. needy, neither able to give much to each other at the moment. 1 son (5 yrs old) - we share childcare.

Hey - we had some good news yesterday - we won 2 tix to Live8 - at least that'll give us something good to do together.

Stay well everyone.

Wow ! I don't know why I am uplifted that more of my compatriots than I thought have had broken hearts but it feels good not to be alone !

BH, perhaps I should change to 'european MBers' ? Then again we may not have an EU very soon ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Bloke, I am a BS but I welcome ANYONE who is genuinely trying to recover from infidelity.

Cool !

Any more Brits ?

Oh and BTW YES "Relate" blows ! ABSOLUTELY CRAP !

Great news about Live8....I keep hoping I get a similar text. It'll be a wonderful thing to do together and having something to look forward to I found to be very helpful!

When the fog cleared for me I gained great pleasure from planning something in OUR future.

Bloke,

Great news about the Live8 tickets! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hello, everyone.

I'm curious as to why there are so few of us. I realise that MB is a US site, and that there are far more Americans than Brits populationwise, but are there other reasons?

Do Brits give up more easily? UK is a much more 'secular' society than the US - perhaps we 'care' less about saving marriages as a nation?

Just wondering -

Alph.

Alph, I've wondered that too.

Harley's a Christian, but MB is very practical in its execution and has worked for folks holy and not !

I'm not sure why there aren't more brits.

Can you IMAGINE going through this mess WITHOUT MB ?????

Especially as Relate is so bloody useless and its pretty much our only MC centre (apart from Marriagecare but thats hard to find).

Relate ARE useless.

And as you say, just about the only MC service available (that anyone knows about, anyway).

I really do think it's a case of the old British 'stiff upper lip', making the best of things, not wanting to make a scene, etc.

Americans reach out to each other much more - that's a big part of the appeal of sites like this one.

Alph.

The people I've shared this site with seem suprised there is anything on the internet to "build marriages"....they are interested but then it feels like it's "too much hard work".

A kind of what's the point it won't make any difference malaise.

I shall keep building and keep pointing to this website and the great books I've read. Sadly I know of so many relationships that have or are failing and they seem powerless to do "anything" about it....like they are frozen...or scared?

My BS won't read/post here but he did when I was in Alien form. I know it gave him great comfort....just wish others could be persuaded.

I never reached out to others...kept things inside. Since fog clearance, reading and applying MB (amongst others) I also had some IC. It was a wonderful release and broke down some of my walls.

How un-British of me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

bOb,

I'm not in the UK, but on the continent, so just one hour time difference. My threads often get buried because of the time difference to the US. I'd love to join in this support group!

Strong, I agree. I have the Brit's extreme cynicism for self help horsepoo too, but MB is far from abstract airport-book fodder.

Its a practical way to work against affairs and to make better marriages.

Many of my US friends on here think me uncivilised with this attitude !

If only they knew what yer average Brit thinks about Americans and their therapists !!

Dive in LT ! All you need is a near GMT time zone and a broken heart that needs fixing !

I changed the heading to UK & European !

Gosh, that was as quick as real time... it feels good to be connected to a supportive network! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What we need is a forum 'wise head' to move to our time zone !
I was SO LUCKY as I had RIF in Afghanistan working the MB nightshift when I needed him.

He had the CHEEK to go home to his baby after a year away !

C'oh ! No commitment ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi LT, I only just realised you weren't LostINTranslation.

Fantastic film that...just saw it recently.

I think I've posted more in the last day than I have in the last 9 months!

I'm up to nearly 5000 posts !

I seem to have attracted a large reponse though for some reason so have replied to loads.

Can't say I felt safe enough to post coming from the other side of the coin. I read, absorbed, cried and cheered silently from the sidelines every day since I joined.

Now I'm strong in my recovery and have a need to reach out.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Strong, I understand that. And I can;t post to active WS becuase I get angry which helps no-one.

But seeing how broken my dear Squid is by her affair, how regretful and repentent, how can I not afford the same encouragement to OTHER regretful, MBing F WS ?

Some of my greatest supporters and best friends through my darkest tims were recovering FWS.

KYellow, KiwiJ. Nowadays so 'recovered' they rarely post.

I usually don't post in this area (not dealing with PA or EA) but read up to learn about people/life.

Just wanted to stop in and say hi! I am an American living in Norway (one hour time diff from England) and trying to MB. Timezone says alot! There is nothing going on during the day and when everyone wakes up in America I have to make dinner and there are things to do! Kinda miss the connection sometimes.

Symphony

Hey SOL ! I visit Norway a few times per year to see a 'mobile phone' customer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think us Brits are still in the middle ages viz-a-viz therapy and self-discovery stuff. We've all been taught to 'soldier on' and 'make the best of things', when, in fact, many things could be done to improve the situation. We've been taught to embrace suffering. Our friends across the pond are way ahead of us...

I found an IC within weeks of d-day, because I saw that no-one in my 'support network' had the wisdom, vision or plain maturity to help me with this mess. All the advice I was getting was pretty much what your best friends tell you when you're all 14. The response to the news of my IC was hostile, sceptical and sarcastic (my parents),baffled (H), but I was determined. Within a couple of months, my mother let slip that she'd booked to see a counsellor herself (bereavement), and although she wouldn't admit that it was worthwhile, I note she's still going. H, from the most therapy-hostile SUL (stiff upper lip) family you can imagine, eventually asked me to get my IC to recommend someone, and he hasn't missed a session in 18 months. It has done him a power of good to simply have his misperceptios reframed by someone sensible.

Relate wasn't entirely useless. Going to counselling for a 'couple problem' made therapy seem less embarrassing to H.

TogetherAlone

TA, where did you get your IC from ? A private practitioner ?

I'm still trying to find one !

bOb,

HAVE PHONED MARRIAGECARE!!!

Spoke to a lovely lady, told her I had heard about them from MarriageBuilders - she hadn't heard of it, but never mind.

She's going to be ringing me back with an appointment.

Good stuff.

Alph.

Funnily enough, Bob, I found her from the internet! And via the Relate website!!

I was surfing around all the 'links' on the Relate site, and found my way to a site where I could search for local practitioners. I recognised one address, because a friend had consulted with her years before, and I knew she was a member of my church. She was American - go figure.

She was tough, determined, sympathetic, and canny. I'm not sure I would have got this far without her.

Nobody has heard of MB in the UK Alph. When they ask just say you've been following a proven affiair-recovery process, but you need more help.

They probably won't like exposure BTW - but they might just !

I get angry with active WS too as I can see what I was like relected back to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I was extremely lucky in that my BS loved me unconditionally and I only saw and heard his anger once...it was what I needed to wake up...the fog burned off pretty darned quick! His fury was immense.

Reading about the BS anger and pain on this board was helpful to read as it was extremely painful to know I had caused that in my own M. I had panic attacks occasionally when I realised what I'd done.

It will take me a long time to forgive myself and I shall never forget how gracious and loving my husband is and was during the A. I didn't know about Plan A of course but I remember EVERY nice thing he did for me and said to me. I remember how selfless he was, how caring, how loving he became and how willing to stand by my side. I even remember the reverse babble and how confused that made me using my own words against me! He was good!

I'm very lucky.

Plan A wasn't wasted on me but I was suspicious as it was so different from what I'd been used to.

I feel so far removed from that time now....I threw myself into Marriage and family building. We've since faced some big family crisis together pulling us closer. It's wonderful to be part of a tight unit.

I was prescribed IC by my Doctor. I'd been looking around like TA but hadn't found the guts to phone and make an appointment.

At an extremely low ebb in early January I drove to the doctors after school drop-off and told him I needed help. He wouldn't prescribe ADs but said counselling may help...it did! The surgery has a counsellor attached to it.

Try your doctors Bob.

TA - I'm glad Relate worked out for you....I'm not anti Relate but the woman we saw was smarmy and false. They also had at least a 9 months waiting list so we'd only be going about now if we'd been lucky!

I found Imago therapy which has courses in the UK and are pro-marriage http://www.imagorelationships.org/ - it looks like they run in London and is something I'm interested in pursuing with hubby.

That's how I felt about my Relate counsellor.

Not only that, but she called me vindictive (because of exposure), called OW WH's 'partner' and basically told me to forget about my M and get on with my life!

I wasn't impressed. Marriage counsellors? Not much!

Alph.

The married regional Relate mgr is shagging my Brother's married boss right now.... go figure...

Now, there's an exposure opportunity...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I felt sick when I read what that Relate counsellor said to you Alphin!

I'm sure there are good ones around but the bad ones put us off and give Relate a bad name!

Hi,

As a Yank I don't belong here - although my 'Mum' is a Canadian, and my DD's name is Diana - but I am envious of your fellowship.

Good for all of you for the support you are showing to each other.

Blessings!

Hi, Healing - I'm sure you're welcome to visit anytime!

StrongFoundation, I don't think that counsellor meant to upset me, but it was pretty bad all the same. She didn't understand the MB principles at all - far too radical.

I think the Relate method is to reduce pain a quickly as possible. She thought that I was in pain, and expressing that pain through vindictiveness. That's why she brought it up, I guess.

Alph.

OK

To help we 'yerpeens' interact with the large number of folks from the southern states, heres a translation dictionary :

HEIDI -- noun. Greeting.

HIRE YEW - Complete sentence. Remainder of greeting.
Usage: "Heidi. Hire yew."

BARD -- verb. Past tense of the infinitive "to borrow."
Usage: "My brother bard my pickup truck."

JAWJUH -- noun. A state just north of Florida. Capital is Hot-lanta.
Usage: "My brother from Jawjuh bard my pickup truck."

MUNTS -- noun. A calendar division.
Usage: "My brother from Jawjuh bard my pickup truck, and I ain't herd from him in munts."

IGNERT -- adjective. Not smart. See "Arkansas native."
Usage: "Them N-C-TWO-A boys sure are ignert!"

RANCH -- noun. A tool used for tight'nin' bolts.
Usage: "I think I left my ranch in the back of that pickup truck my brother from Jawjuh bard a few munts ago."

ALL -- noun. A petroleum-based lubricant.
Usage: "I sure hope my brother from Jawjuh puts all in my pickup truck."

FAR -- noun. A conflagration.
Usage: "If my brother from Jawjuh don't change the all in my pickup truck, that things gonna catch far."

BAHS -- noun. A supervisor.
Usage: "If you don't stop reading these Southern words and git back to work (or studying), your bahs is gonna far you!"

TAR -- noun. A rubber wheel.
Usage: "Gee, I hope that brother of mine from Jawjuh don't git a flat tar in my pickup truck."

TIRE -- noun. A tall monument.
Usage: "Lord willin' and the creek don't rise, I sure do hope to see that Eiffel Tire in Paris sometime."

RETARD -- Verb. To stop working.
Usage: "My grampaw retard at age 65."

TARRED -- adverb. Exhausted.
Usage: "I just flew in from Hot-lanta, and boy my arms are tarred."

FAT -- noun, verb. 1. a battle or combat. 2. to engage in battle or combat.

ARE -- pronoun. Possessive case of we used as a predicate adjective.

RATS -- noun. Entitled power or privilege.
Usage: "We Southerners are willin' to fat for are rats."

FARN -- adjective. Not local.
Usage: "I cuddint unnerstand a wurd he sed... must be from some farn country."

DID -- adjective. Not alive.
Usage: "He's did, Jim."

EAR -- noun. A colorless, odorless gas (unless you are in LA).
Usage: "He cain't breath ... give 'im some ear!"

BOB WAR -- noun. A sharp, twisted cable.
Usage: "Boy, stay away from that bob war fence."

JEW HERE -- Noun and verb contraction.
Usage: "Jew here that my brother from Jawjuh got a job with that bob war fence cump'ny?"

HAZE -- a contraction.
Usage: "Is Bubba smart?" "Nah... haze ignert."

SEED -- verb, past tense.

VIEW -- contraction: verb and pronoun.
Usage: "I ain't never seed New York City... view?"

HEAVY DEW -- phrase. A request for action.
Usage: "Kin I heavy dew me a favor?"

GUMMIT -- noun. A bureaucratic institution.
Usage: "Them gummit boys shore are ignert."

I hope this heps, sorry helps.

of course theres NOTHING amusing about British regional accents or YERPEEN come to that ! LOL !

Hi Healing! I nearly moved to Canada (Gananoque, Ontario...spelling?) when I was 7....always wonder what I'd be doing in Canada today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'd definitely be a better ice-skater.

Alph, you're too kind about the counsellor...how that comment could diminish pain I'll never know but I'm in awe that you find the good/positive in the situation <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

My problem throughout this whole time in my life has been that I don't get angry enough. Took me nearly six weeks to accept that WH had actually done something wrong and the A wasn't all my fault! It's been a slow-burn build-up for me. Haven't quite got angry enough yet, I guess!

Alph.

I'm English living in Asia, but I'll be in UK for most of July and August. However, access to a decent computer might be a shortcoming. My parents are not 'with it'!

Someone was pondering on why so few Brits/Europeans might post here. And my guess is that it is very American. My best friend out here happens to be from the U.S. so maybe I'm biased, but I remember when I discovered MB, I told my WH that maybe he should read it. He decided it was American crap and nobody could understand him. I think in England we have a stereo-typical opinion of most yanks - the loud-mouthed Americans are often portrayed in the same tone as the 'bloody French'. Well, the French saved my dad's life and 2 of my aunts live in the U.S. so my opinions differ.

Personally, I have loved reading on MB. From those first desperate days when I first found it to a more peaceful me today, it has helped me through some dark times, made me laugh, made me cry. But you always know you're in good company. TT

Hi Tummytuck.


I agree. Half my family are Americans (American mum!) so my opinions differ also. I am an American citizen, although I was born and brought up in the UK.

Alph.

Great to have friends in the same time-zone! Sometimes I'm all alone to "rule" the board - just to find my messages have been swamped with new ones and sunk to the bottom of MB when I get back.

I'm waiting for Anne Robinson to slaughter all but one contestant (anyone seen Dr Who with the Ann-droid?:)) so Flog It will start... can you get anymore British? Haha!
Yet I'm Belgian (Flemish part) so please excuse me when my English isn't totally correct.

I'm a BS, twice over. First D-Day Oct 2003 where I found out H went to prostitutes (a few times over a period of 2 years, starting when I was pregnant) and had sport sex during that same period with my (now X-)BF (1 year). One year later, after working hard on the M, I found out he went to prostitutes again - so now D'ing as WH will not go into counseling because he's "sorry and will not do it again" - like he said the previous time - but I cannot go through this cr*p again. It's beginning to look like SA.

I bought a little house and will move there next month!
STBXRWH (R is for repeated) is reasonably friendly and co-operative but I'll be glad to move out and get on with my life. H started dating one week after I told him that I wanted to end our M, how's that for being important to him? "I don't want to be alone" was his response. I told him I don't want him to bring any of his dates to our house as long as I'm living here, and he respects that, but he's so foggy I need a foghorn (bullhorn?) to talk to him. Yech.

So "recovery" for me is "self-recovery" at this point.
I think all MB stuff is very valuable for any relationship, so I'm very glad and grateful to have found this website and all you wonderful people.

It seems we have a very diverse gathering here! Great!
Greetz
Brit from Belgium

Hi brownhair...sorry your M is ending. You sound excited about your new house, is it in a different town to your STBXRWH?

I've never seen Flog It but I've always loved the programme title! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hello StrongFoundation, yes it's in different town.

If you like the programma title of Flog It you might be disappointed to see the actual show <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> !!

Thought so! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Hi,

I'm not from the UK either, i'm an aussie, but also in a different time zone.
I know jokes about accents are sort of silly... but Bob those were hilarious!!
Actually, I probably shouldn't speak too soon, you'd probably be LOL right now about my accent.
(I have been to the US once... I have never been asked to repeat myself so many times. I felt like such a freak! Its much easier over the internet!)

ALso, about the cultural difference regarding self-help. I agree with TA. Its the same in Aus, people are wary and there is a real stigma attached to counselling, along with the stigma that is generally attached to being too honest about your personal problems with friends etc. Many people think counselling is for those with mental illnesses, and problems are to be soldiered through, not aired in public. Hence the high suicide rate here, esp among young men, who are least likely to talk about problems. H and I have not told anyone about MC, and I have told perhaps two friends about IC. Others would probably be shocked.... hmmm maybe I should tell ???

But anyone here who has ever tried counselling or actually read a good self help book has a different attitude about it. ALso, those friends who have been deeply depressed and pulled out of it by doing something out of the ordinary, and really reaching out, have a different attitude.

Hey smur,

I guess I'm the only one in this time zone left standing...

Or sitting...

Sorry I can't say anything more cohesive, but please drop by again. I'm so tired now. I'm off to bed.

Zzzzz...

sigh.......you can tell this was written by some silly farn EYE-talian who knows nuthing about southerners! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> It's not "heidi, hire yew," it's "hie..howreyew?"

When will you blimey blokes and blokesses ever learn proper English? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

ROFL MEL ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Even the Brits mock my regional accent - lets just say its not the most romantic of tones ! In the 'States folks think I'm Australian !

Well, my European friends - this weekend is going to be a SCORCHER almost everywhere in Yerp ! What you folks doing to make the most of this fathers day weekend ?

As for ME, well my little boy has Chickenpox ( poor dear - he doesn't make any fuss, bless him) so I doubt we'll go to our holiday home in Wales this weekend which is a shame. Can't go turning the village into a plague zone !

So I'll probably do some gardening and beer drinking in the sun.

How 'bout you folks ?

Hi b0b,

People in the US think I'm from South Africa - and I have a 'posh' accent (NOT a genuine Geordie, BTW!).

Alph.

DD5 is making a huge, glittery sticky card for her daddy. As far as I know, DD12 hasn't started anything for him yet.

I don't know if he'll want to spend any time in the house with me if exposure Espanol comes to a head this weekend. I suspect that Fathers Day this year will be just the three of them!

Enjoy those beers - and wear sunscreen if you are gardening!

Alph.

Good morning y'all !
Not much sunshine here in Belgium, but it's nice and warm, at last.

H is taking our dog and his new GF (the one who's too old but will do for now) to the seaside for walkies this weekend. That stung at first but I'll have to get used to it - I'm pretty sure other women will also be here in the house once I left. Still - it hurts. People in the fog apparantely tend to bump into others, hurting them, because they don't know you're there to get hurt <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
A mutual GF of H and myself agrees H is behaving quite selfishly, and she doesn't even know about his A's ! Go figure.

About the counseling - it's getting better in Belgium, but for a long time counseling/therapy was also considered to be something for "crazy" people. Now it's for "new agers" also, haha.

We have Dr. Phil on tv now, and the Supernanny etc. Such shows that concentrate on changing behavior, by analysing what is going wrong and trying to remedy that, make people see that it can be done and you don't have to be an axe-wielding murderer to get help.

Still many families think it's better to deal with these things in private - or not deal with them at all - and just "get through it". They don't look for help unless things get totally out of control - hence reinforcing the "you gotta be nuts to need therapeutic help" idea.

We got a long way to go to my sig line. But we're working on it!

Good day to y'all...

Apart from getting over my nasty summer cold!! cough splutter....I will be celebrating my daughters 10th birthday today!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Tomorrow we pick up his and hers Harley Davidsons <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> (well my Dad will ride mine as I don't have a licence yet! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />). This week I passed my CBT (Compulsory Bike training) and my theory test....the road test next....eeeeeeek

Sunday will be spent cleaning all the chrome <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> oh and drinking beer in the garden!

Of course!

PS....I don't have an accent as I'm from the South! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sorry to hear about your son Bob...hope it's not too awful for him!

Wow, this thread was on page 3 when I posted! We were all typing at the same time apparantly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> !

Dear Alphin, I hope your family and friends support you? This must be a really hard time for you.

Dear Bob, time to pamper your son I guess..

Dear StrongFoundation, hiphiphurray for your daughter!

Er... no accent here, but my English is very English it seems. I have no problem in England but when I'm in America people sometimes don't understand me, haha !

Strong you're passing yor test and your first bike will be a Hog ?? Wow.

my first bike was a Honda 90 stepthru ! LOL !

Have fun but be careful out there....I still carry bits of metal and a limp through bikes !

My son was COVERED in spots yesterday, and itching badly. I remembered what MY mom did for me when I had a bad case of chickenpox in my teens, and I ran him a cool bath and put TCP in it before bedtime.

Bless him ! He got to sleep right away and slept for 10 hours !

The spots are healing this morning but he's still sorry for himself.

WH has always claimed to hate Father's Day, writing it off as a commercial scam. Still, the girls usually make something for him and I usually cook one of his favorite dishes.

WH has asked me to go mountainbiking with him on Sunday. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />I will invite him to a special dinner in our garden.

Today I finally have my second appointment with SH. I'll be reporting later on one of my threads.

Hope you all have a good weekend!

Poor kid. They are so brave about it, too - must feel so awful for them. DD5 had Chickenpox a couple of years ago - her whole playgroup class was laid up at the same time!

It's a horrible disease. Better to have it when you are little, though. I got it from DD12 when she was 2 and I was 25. She had a grand total of 3 spots on her body, whereas I was totally covered - in my hair, ears, mouth, throat... YUK!

Ewww - disgusting. I still remember brushing the scabs out of my hair weeks later! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

Alph, you're right. I was 16 when I caught iut and was covered everywhere with huge , painful vesicles. ( and I mean EVERYWHERE <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ). My DD12 just had it and had like 5 spots and no temperature, while poor Dan is LOADED and hot <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. Still he's much better this morning after his TCP bath and good sleep. Squids taken him to a garden centre to choose some hanging basket plants.

Ahh, the reassuring smell of TCP. I love it.

Once kids are over the fever, they recover very quickly from it. Just a question of trying not to knock the heads off the scabs now!

Alph.

Morning all

You will have to excuse me if I have the acronyms on my signature incorrect, could someone point me to a glossary of the acronyms.

I am Irish living in the UK, with an English partner. D-day was 24th April, we have both had previous marriages, DS9 from her previous marriage. She started her affair Jan, I discovered by getting a knock on the door and being told by OM's W - which sounds worse than it was - WW was away for weekend with friends shopping in Manchester, so I has plenty of time to cool down. I haven't blown my top, which really confused her. After 2-3 weeks of good discussion, found she was still texting and phoning OM, demanded halt and implemented Plan A. She had serious withdrawl, but appeared to snap out of it last weekend.

After the initial car crash, its a good start to a long journey.

FreeAllAngels

FreeAllAngels,

Welcome! I'm very glad you have found MB - so few Europeans do, which is why b0b pure started this thread.

Feel free to start your own thread if you like, then you'll have people posting to you direct and it will all be relevant to your sitch. Please continue to post here too, though! With all the Americans here, we need all the support we can get! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like you are doing great with your plan A!

Alph.

Hello FreeAllAngels,

How's NC going? Did you send a letter to OM? Are you both reading through the site?

As a Fww I found the book Surviving An Affair VERY helpful. Is she actively reading affair materials?

Sorry for all the questions!

Bob,

Yes my first bike will be a HOG....how spoilt am I? I did my CBT on a 500 which I enjoyed far more than the 125. I grew up around bikes and was a happy pillion for 4 years before I got pregnant with my Birthday girl. I will be extremely careful though....the roads have gone nuts since we last biked!

Your poor little lad! Chicken Pox is the pits....glad I had it when I was young and not older like you and Alphin!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

To give you a laugh..

Still implementing Plan B with 1st wife - haven't spoken to her in 10 years, actually think its our 10 year anniversary around now ("I'm not bitter" said in my Irish accent).

Actually, Me, WW, exWW and exWW's OM were at a mutual friends wedding about 5/6 years ago, exWW was squeezing past WW at the bar and gave her an almighty thump in the back - what was that all about?

Me and WW laughed about it.

FreeAllAngels

PS Had to say something to get my number of posts increased

Hi SF

You will love biking, I gave myself a motorbike after my first marriage breakdown. Started with a Suzuki GSX600, then bought myself a brand spanking new Fireblade, 1 Aug 1997, picked it up at midnight and rode it all day to run it in. Awesome fun, nothing like the open road, wind in your hair, on your own and doing well feeling. But do be careful a friend nearly killed himself.

Great social scene as well, sadly had to sell bike when 1st DS(now 4) arrived, but that was a fantastic part-exchange.

FreeAllAngels

To the best of my knowledge NC has been kept up (I am very logical, I haven't been with her every second of the day so I donot know definitely), she sent a text message 10:02pm 17th May to OM. I have read the site and she has read the bits I have pointed her to and read further, I have printed sections out and we have read together. We have read a relate book, After the Affair, it was OK, it introduced me to the fact she was going to experience emotions relating to OM, then the website introduced me to 'withdrawl'- knowing these things has been beneficial in how I have related to her.

I have to start up another thread, otherwise I will have people shouting at me.

FreeAllAngels

LOL - you're pretty good at Plan B then.


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I need a flow diagram for all those acronyms...you've collected quite a few!

That must have been an odd situation at a wedding. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Posted new thread in General Discussion>>Other Topics>>Where is the glossary? I need to speak but cant without the glossary!

FreeAllAngels

Hi Free !

Great handle - Humming "Burn baby Burn" now , probably all day you bugger !

Welcome to the best club on earth that nobody wants to be a member of <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

It may seem wierd hanging around an American ostensibly Christian board but the recoveries I have seen as a result of Drs Harley and the folks on here have been quite staggering.

You have work to do but THE ODDS LOOK GOOD MATE !

By the way HERE is a thread with all the MB acronyms in

Hi Bob

Wondered whether anyone would work out the handle, yes it is reference to the joint best band in the world - ASH.

"Joint?" I hear you say, yes a position held jointly with another Irish band, from Northern Ireland as well - Snow Patrol.

We both know the work at our relation ship will never stop.

FreeAllAngels

I've liked a few Irish bands over the years - Lizzy, Radiators from Space, Therapy ?, 4ofUS, U2, Pogues, Undertones... I'm so old, I fought the original punk wars !

Ash are a smashing powerpop band. I guess the English equivalent would be Supergrass, 'cept they don't have a babe playing with them like Ash do !

Thanks for the welcome. Norway is a pretty country. I am hoping to get to England sometime within the next year. I have some aquaintances in Leeds.

Thanks for posting the southern dictionary. Too funny. I'm from the upper midwest so I am safe. The scary thing is there are people who talk like that.

Being American and having that way of thinking I struggle alot with what seems to be the (from what I read here) general feeling towards counseling, self help etc.

H is super reluctant and kinda goes by the "pretend it isn't happening" rule. My life has been changed by IC years back and I know how life changing and R changing it can be. It's sad for me because I know H and I could be happy and we could work through alot of this stuff much better and more efficiently.

Anybody want to help me understand this reluctance or offer some advice on how I can deal with it or maybe make it make sense to H?

Symphony

SOL

I can only speak for myself.

My reticence to self help and therapy comes from the vacuous and recreational usage of such by the chattering classes in the UK but mostly in the US.

Its basically paying someone to tell you that you're wonderful and giving you guidance as to how you can be loved by everyone.

That is anathema to me.
But what the MB experience has shown me is that such is RECREATIONAL use of pop psychology.

When in a crisis situation expert therapy can really help identify problesm and work on them.

I STILL hate recreational therapy, but I am now a respecter and valuer of remedial therapy.

That make any sense ?

Bob,



After reading it 3 times, yes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

H said therapy is someone getting inside your head and telling you what a mess you are and how badly you have screwed up. Since he already knows he screwed up he isn't paying someone to tell him that. Guess he doesn't see the point.

I agree with you on the differences. One seems more a fad than a real, honest search for growth or to find ways to understand and resolve issues. Thanks for the input.

Symphony

Dug this up from page 6 - GOOOOOOOOD MOOOOORNING EUROPE !! (aha, reference to what film?)

Edited to add some sense <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I love your definition, Bob, "Its basically paying someone to tell you that you're wonderful and giving you guidance as to how you can be loved by everyone."

So true of a lot of "therapy". And if it would really work, that would be great, wouldn't it? But few therapies like that have an effect that lasts longer than a few days. Then "reality" sets in and you're back where you started.

In my experience there are a few gifted, experienced people around in this world, that CAN make a difference by making you understand what is the cause of the things you don't like in your life/yourself. They can give you the tools to fix it. If you ever find such a person - a friend, a therapist, a doctor... cherish that person and that relationship, because it's hard to find.

Oh and Bob - if you need something to keep your son busy - surf to www.sithsense.com. Turn on the sound and enjoy! (but be prepared to get insulted first <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

G'day europe!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just dropping in from the Antipodes to keep an eye on the Europeans .....heh heh heh <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Hows everything going Bob? Hope you & family are ok!


My thoughts on the OM today are :........
"He is one of those people who would be enormously improved by death." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Hi aussie2

Guess all the other Brits are out enjoying our one day of summer LOL.

Stupid country - I had to take my winter coat out of the closet last week, and here we are today in 80 degree heat!

Typical Brit, talking about the weather.

My thoughts on OW today are: I am skinnier than her! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

Just checking in here real quick before going to dinner with WH --- yes, he's asked me out for no particular reason, I think...

My thoughts on the OW today..."What was that stinky smell, we just drove by?"

Get that smell out of your nose so you can enjoy your meal with WH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Have a great time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

My thoughts on OW today are... I pity her, she has to live with secrets all her life (her H doesn't know about this A and the previous one) - and I'm free !

May I join in? I'm in Germany, and this thread looks like fun <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hello yerpeens and fellow nightshifters !

Alphs right - I've been busy today. Gardening before it got too hot, then cooking a BBQ and playing with the kids.

Had a full on row with Squid over some thoughtless [censored] and it felt GOOD !

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And amazing for both of us, we;re not sulking now. A row of that proportion before her affair would have led to weeks of silence.

Small silver lining to a large brown cloud I guess !

I'll check in later or tomorrow with you guys !

Enjoy your lives this weekend !

* Gosia Vilkommen ! OF course you;re welcome ! Where from in Germany ? I'm a brit but I work there a lot.

Boy way to make me feel like a useless Yank Bob....LMAO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-Caren

Gosia - please join us.

Welcome!

Alph.

BTW I don;t want to 'down' the thread but my thoughts on OM today : " My kids love and respect me and I'll have a great fathers day, yours think you're low scum. "

Made me feel good till I remembered his one estranged son died last year. It will be hard for him tomorrow. I loathe the scumbag but even I can't take pleasure in the man grieving a child.

My thoughts today on OW are that she's not worth thinking about. TT

b0b,

He's not your problem any more. Have a great day tomorrow!

TT - what a great attitude!

Alph.

Thanks Alphin, I really have never given her much time. All my hurt, anger, despair and disappointment have been pretty much directed at my WH. We live in Asia. It is a scenario that you laugh at when you arrive. The older Western guy with a LBFM on his arm (little brown f***ing machine). She is typical of so many women out here but he was meant to be special.TT

My thoughts on OM tonight.....
.....who???????

Had a fantastic day....about to have a fab night.

Full of sun, beer and HOG (Harley and leather!) smells.

It was fantastic to be behind my husband on a bike again.....dredged up wonderful memories from over 10 years ago!

Gosia,

Wie bOb gesagt hat: Wilkommen! Ich bin gerade suedlich von dir in oesterreich!

LG

I am an american that lives in South East England with my English husband. We actually met in Paris. He and I have never delt with an affair in our relationship.

My former partner cheated on me. I still find I visit MB to help out people from time to time. So like SOL I am an expat.

Hello Yerpeen friends and expats ! I hope you all are having as wonderful a father Days Sunday as I am !

Lost...I work in Vienna ocasionally - 1 or 2 times per year !

I Always look forward to it. I seem to have adventures in Vienna for some reason ! Meeting unusual people in unsual places.

Vienna is the HQ of our CEMA ( Central Europe, emerging markets) operation so I'll have to visit again soon.

* Strong, glad you had a perfect day for motorcycling !

We spent the last few Christmases in the Florida Keys and I always envy the folks who trawl the overseas highway on a Harley. They#'re gtreat everywhere but even more 'right' in that dusty, American setting !

I boroowed our hosts' Harley v-rod to pick up supplies from our nearest publix - GORGEOUS looking thing, but abit civlised for a Harley IMO.

Having said that I'd have one in a heartbeat <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I rode into a skip at hugh speed some years ago and nearly died ( I lost an inch in height, gained pins in a few places and a permanent limp) and I can;t really justify owing a bike anymore. Before you laugh BTW, the skip was covered in a black tarpaulin with no lights nearby and it was a rainy night. I didn't even brake, just hit the skip. Still it got me the deposit for our first home from the court case !

* Hi I'm New Too ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Great that you stop by to help folks out !

For me, It feels 'right' to try to pass on a little of the enormous hope I got from this place.

Enjoy the lovely summers day today !

* all

My Squid arranged to referee a karte competition today - fathers day - when she knows its a serious trigger for me. She loves her sport ( Karate) and this childrens tournament would have been cancelled if it was not for her volunteering last minute ( aparrently like I give a [censored] about ANYTHING TO DO with karate ! (Squid had her affair with the UK 'king' of karate)).

I made my displeasure known VERY STRONGLY. Squids backed out as much as she can, doing only the morning sessions now, and she has booked a restaurant for us this evening for Fathers day. Huge progress for Squid, but still far to go.

So I have this lovely day to play with my kids an laze in teh sun. Tough gig huh ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Bob - I DON’T THINK SO!!!!! LOL ROTFLMAO hehehehehe
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Bobs Aussie language test...what does the following mean

Ambo
Apples
Bail
Barney
Berk
Blue
Cactus
Captain Cook
Cossie
Dag
Grundies
Heave
Servo
Wombat

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

V-Rods aren't quite grungy enough are they <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> After picking up the bikes yesterday I had to be on the cake stall at the school fete. Hubby and my father took the bikes to school to join a couple of others (a Fat Boy and an 1100 Jap bike) giving bike rides around the netball courts. They had a blast!

The cakes melted <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> horrendous story! I think I should only ride between the hours of 10 and 4 with no rain/ice/fog!!!!

Hubby hasn't ridden in 10 years and his arms are feeling it today. He has apehanger handlebars which give the bike a slight chop feel....he's not used to that riding position!


I hope tonights meal is a wonderful father's day treat for you Bob.

I'm about to set up the water slide for the kids and make a brunch for hubby and I. Enjoy the wonderful weather everyone!

Ambo - No idea ! Short foe 'Amber Nectar ?' LOL !
Apples - er...fruit ? We have a saying 'right as apples', does it mean 'OK' ?
Bail again here in the midlands it mean sto 'bugger off early' same for you ?
Barney - A Barney is a row here.
Berk - Pillock, idiot, nobhead here
Blue - Not a clue !!!!!
Cactus - Not a bleedin' clue !
Captain Cook Rhy,ing slang for 'fook' ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Cossie - here 'costume' as in 'swimming cossie'.
Dag - no idea !!
Grundies - Undercrackers ! Learned this from Squids cousin in the spring !
Heave - Puke ?
Servo - Nope. Crap at this aren;t I ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Wombat - idiot ? no idea !

I'll put up some midlands slang for you and see how you do !

Strong me too ! About to set up the water slide for my kids too !

Have a lovely day !

"Dag" - daft bugger....literal meaning is the dry bits of poo stuck to a sheep's bum!!!!

LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Water slide a great hit!! Do you use a bit of washing up liquid to make the kiddies skid faster????

Do you use a bit of washing up liquid to make the kiddies skid faster????

Tried it once, nearly killed the lawn !

They go fast enough ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well Bob you did pretty good for a ol bloke ..heheheh - u'can come visit anytime

Ambo - No idea ! Short foe 'Amber Nectar ?' LOL ! - nope ambulance

Apples - er...fruit ? We have a saying 'right as apples', does it mean 'OK' ? yeah very close but more like she'll be apples.

Bail again here in the midlands it mean sto 'bugger off early' same for you ? yeah about the same except more in context of I think I'll bail the missus is waiting for me.

Barney - A Barney is a row here. yep samo

Berk - Pillock, idiot, nobhead here yep samo

Blue - Not a clue !!!!! a big fight ..had a blue with the missus

Cactus - Not a bleedin' clue ! - hes stuffed had it eg jack's Cactus mate

Captain Cook Rhy,ing slang for 'fook' ? close ... go have a look

Cossie - here 'costume' as in 'swimming cossie'.yep

Dag - no idea !! low level idiot and as StrongFoundation says - daft bugger....literal meaning is the dry bits of poo stuck to a sheep's bum!!!!

Grundies - Undercrackers ! Learned this from Squids cousin in the spring ! yep

Heave - Puke ? yep

Servo - Nope. Crap at this aren;t I ? No pretty good really A Yank tanker as in army tank..of course we have rude ones but then so do they ..lol


Wombat - idiot ? no idea ! you'll love this one it used to be me ,,-long time ago .. male who eats roots shoots & leaves ...lol

see now ya set for Oz Bob .... heh heh

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wah Aussie ! Thats funny !

I'll work on some local slang when I get a mo' and post it up for you !


* Evening Euro-builders !!

I hope you all had a great fathers day ! Mine was very vry nice after an unpromising start !

We went out to a 'surprise' FD dinner last night - the temp was 35 degrees and it hailed the size of pebbles at the same time !!!

Very nice though. My baby told me she ADORES me. * sigh *

I'm still floating !

SOME days just SOME days this fight has been SO worth it !

Off to sit in the garden and do a crossword !

b0b,

What a great day for you. I'm glad the contest didn't ruin it for you.

Weather was bizzare yesterday, wasn't it? The highlight of my Father's day was standing outside with the girls yesterday evening watching the flooding and the 'river' that used to be our street!

All sorts floating by - probably best not to mention!

Got it all on video. Maybe I will play it to WH next year.

Alph.

I just have to butt in and say...

English, Irish and especially Scottish accents make my heart palpitate! hubba hubba!!! I've tried to get my hubby to learn a Scottish accent but it just isn't working out.

Oh man, and don't get my started on kilts - hubba hubba HUBBA!!

Wow alph ! I saw that flooding on the TV !
I hope you're OK ?

* Hey Chackler ! So...men in pleated skirts do it for you huh ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You wouldn;t like my accent I guarantee it ! Imagine Ozzy Osbourne without forty years of hard drugs !! Thats me !

Fine thanks, b0b.

It wasn't as bad here as it was in Yorkshire. Just exciting!

And we had a few leaks - nothing too bad, though.

Girls thought it was great - whilst I ran around putting pans under drips!

Alph.

Guess you're a fan of Braveheart then?

Alph.

Hello all,

Wew such strange weather in the UK ! I wonder if it'll pass here in Belgium today. There is a river not far from my new house :s.

My niece was here in the weekend, she lives in Wales. I'll be visiting her in August so be ware my fellow MB-ers <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Is your son doing better Bob? Did you visit to the www.sithsense.com website?

Chackler you made me chuckle!

Glad you're ok Alphin...scary weather up your way! We've had hot, hot sunny days with yucky muggy nights down South. Quite windy though.

I've surpassed myself today, I just cut the hedges for the first time ever! My husband is currrently in shock at work <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sports day later....fun times! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Dear Chackler,

get your H to watch Star Trek (the original)... Scotty isn't really scottish either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Went to see MIL this morning <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

She's so frail....and she's had a fall and bashed all her eye and head up.

Still trying to make the best of it though, God Almighty Bless her, richly.

Took Squid for a Thai lunch to cheer her up. It was really nice.

Squid really is a lovely lady again now. FUnny, interesting, indulgent and she desires me.

It very attractive when somebody desires you, particularly my wife !!

* nods*

Hows your day , Yerpeens ?

bOb,

So sorry that your MIL is having such a hard time. Old age is not for wimps! At least she is amiable enough for you to have sympathy for her.

I also have a dear, sweet MIL. She suffers from dementia terribly.

Still my lot is better than one of my very best girlfriends in that area. Her MIL never married, was an OW and bore but one child and that son to a married man. My friend's MIL is a mean, nasty, and bitter woman. She inherited quite a bit of property and allowed my GF and her son to build on it, but technically the house still belongs to her. When the young children of my girlfriend once ate all the white currants from the bushes and GFMIL no longer had that particular fruit to make jelly, she rooted out those bushes, "If I can't have those currants, no one can!". These "fruit robbers" are her own small grandchildren!

Selfish, mean, and nasty people can be avoided, but they eventually will reap the bitter loneliness that they sow. The unrepentent OP is really quite pitiful.

LT what a bitter and sad tale !

Nothing could be further removed from my own MIL.

Squids mother was a sixties' teenager and had three children by two different men before she was twenty one.

Squid and her sisters were then dumped at MILs house while MIL and BF went to explore the near east and 'find themslves'.

In their absence FIL & MIL filed for custody AND WON !

They set a legal precedent in UK law - never before had grandparents been granted full adoption of grandchildren while both parents were alive , sane and contesting.

So after raising their OWN family my inlaws cheerfully raised their grandkids as their own.

She is a Madrasi indian catholic. She can be very matter-of-fact and hold a grudge against those who cross her, but I can;t fault the lady.

Her diagnosis with cancer last May was one reason Squid went 'off the rails' last year in both our opinions.

The cancer and several strokes have gotten the better of MIL now, and she is frail and asleep much of the time.

Today she woke when we arrived, greeted me like the prodigal son with kisses and almond thins.

She does not fear deatj, and regrest nothing in her LONG 87 year life.

Her situation is sad, but not TRAGIC. We should be so blessed after such a life.

she lives in Wales. I'll be visiting her in August

BH we have a holiday home in Wales and its not such a huge place ! If you would like to meet Squid and I let me know and we'll see what we can arrange !

Scottie isn't Scottish?? What is wrong with this world?!

My hubby use to be an actor in the Renaissance Faire here outside of Los Angeles. He was a Scot and his kilt was a replica of what they wore in the 1500's. Poor thing, imagine marching around all day long in wool, from head to toe, in 90 degree weather. Not my idea of fun.

He looked so good! I should make him wear that again, just for me.

Alphin - Yes, Braveheart is one of my favorites. I mean Mel Gibson is a hottie to begin with and then he's in a kilt? My heart is a flutter!!!

Mel Gibson is indeed a hottie, and I do appreciate the rough charm of the costumes in Braveheart. Those are kilts for real men!

On the other hand, the kind of kilt that Prince Charles wears when he's poncing around Balmoral (Queen's Scottish Estate, don't you know) is not particularly attractive IMVHO.

Mel - YESSS!
Charles - NOOOO!

Alph.

Mel - YESSS!
Charles - NOOOO!


Add to that Mel's faithfulness to his W for many years despite certain temptations and Charles' persistent womanising I'd rather have Mel as heir to the throne than ol' big ears.

Hey - Mel is good Catholic, isn't he?

Perhaps I should write him about the hotbed of adultery in WH's school. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Waddya think? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

Hey Bob, sorry to hear about MIL and her fall. What a resilient old lady she is. Quite remarkable.

Alphin, glad you survived the floods. We're in the rainy season here and the weather has been fierce the past couple of days. Amazing storms, rain, wind. I love it as long as I'm indoors out of harm's way. Lots of damage this time of year and often loss of life. Do you know if your exposure has hit home at all yet?

Not 100% sure about the exposure, TT.

WH came around here on Sunday, and was very angry with me, in a silent sort of way.

But that could mean anything.

I'm planning exposure round 3 right now.

Alph.

Thanks Bob! That's mighty sweet of you and Squid <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> - I'll let you know when I'm over there. My niece lives in Swansea, btw.

And furthermore...
Mel - YESSS!
Charles - NOOOO!
and, er, Sean Connery... YESSS ! (in spite of his age)

Sean... Mmmm. He'll still be sexy when he's 90!

And the scene in Braveheart when the Scots moon the English - YESSS! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Ehem. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

Erm....I have trouble fully enjoying braveheart..

Its such a total misrepresentation of the English as child eating rapists and Wallace as a lovely freedom fighter when in fact he was a brutal terrorist.

Now I know one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist but its a bit of a one-sided movie !

Yeah, it is.

Mel's a one-sided kind of guy.

It's like a Robocop movie with heather and homespun.

Stylish and fun, tho.

It's legend (perhaps even myth?), not history.

Alph.

I can understand ladies going mad for Mel, and Sean though. Both a have a twinkle in their eye !

I still go misty eyed when I see Lee Remick in moves. She was SO lovely I SWOON at her still.

And Grace Kelly.

And Doris Day.

hum...theres a theme to this isn't there ! I should have been born in the forties ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh yah, Sean Connery. Sigh............... I don't think he will ever be unattractive.

Grace Kelly, she was a timeless beauty. So was Ingrid Bergman and Audrey Hepburn.

I hope you don't mind this yank participating in this thread...

Bob,

Can you please e-mail me at [email]chacklerbelle@yahoo.com?[/email] I am wondering if you might be able to check out another messageboard and help someone else out who's wife is "cake-eating". Since I am on the other side of the fence I feel I can't help him out quite as much.

E-mail me and I'll give you more info.

Carol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hi Everyone,
Sorry Alphin, William Wallace was very real, no legend or Myth! In the middle of Princes Street in Edinburgh stands the Wallace Monument with Edinburgh Castle behind it on the hill. Tisk Tisk! Can't think what Sean Connery would have to say about that!
Anyway, I'm just another BW with a FWH (and he'd better be or else....) Affair exposed in full in middle March 05. It had lasted on and off over several years. OW was married too and a co-worker. She loved him and wanted him to leave me, he said it was probably all about the sex! Having time to think about things though, I think he probably did love her to some degree in the beginning. We are still together, and working things through day by day. I think I've learnt to do that instead of trying to work out what's going to happen two months down the line. I'm playing it canny. That's another word for your list (its scots, I think, and it means taking it carefully). Somebody used it earlier in another posting.
Most days are ok for me now, but only after 2 months of hell. H seems to be really trying to make-up for what he has done, and seems genuinely remorseful.......now! (Probably tell more about that later).
Can't spend too much time here today as I'm leaving this evening for an event 200 miles awayfrom the North East of Scotland. And yes Chackler, H will be wearing his kilt, one just like Chas's, but not taking our motorbike cos it's got no road tax till beginning of July. Was going to borrow a friends Kawa 1100 (nice bike) but nobody to take our luggage up for us. A kilt outfit, set of bagpipes and 4 days clothing just a wee bit tooooo much for the back of the bike. It's a pity too, cos the kids are staying here while we are away and it would have been fantastic. A bit of the 'old us' again and just for the thrill factor of riding past Loch Ness, breathing in the fresh air and soaking up the scenery. It would have been very theraputic for us both.
Right, now I'm going to finish tidying the house (big sigh) for Granny coming to stay,

Hello again everone,

Hope

BW Me (37)
FWH 41
A lasted over 6 years
Two Lovely Kids 8 + 11
Known each other 19 years, married for 16
It's been a long, tiring road, but I will get to the end of it..... whatever the outcome

Hi Hope17,
welcome!

I hope you have a nice "kilty" event.
This must be very rough time for you - making new memories with FWH always is a good idea.

Hi Hope,


I was referring to the film, not the man. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

ARRRRGH !

LOVELY summers day yesterday so I drove to our Basingstoke office cross country in my little sports car. LOVELY trip.

Then for the first time EVER in my LIFE I lost my car keys !!

ARRRGH !

A four hour train journey home and I have to go back today with the spare set to retrieve my car !

ARRRGH ! Two days wasted because of my fecklessness !

ARRRGH !

I feel better for that rant!

Oops!

What sort of car?

Alph.

Dear bOb,
ARRRRGH indeed! Don't you hate it when that happens?
I hope you get some nice views from the train at least <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Hey Brown!

How are you this morning?

It's a beautiful morning here in the NE of England, and I'm feeling good.

*breaks into song, just like Nina Simone (NOT!)*

Alph.

Hi Alphin!
Just for the record - I'm not Brown (that's another poster here), but Brownhair. You can call me Brit, though, that's my real name and that just makes it more convenient on the UK side, haha.

It's beautiful here too, not too hot yet and my Bernese Mountain dog is very happy about that, the poor thing with her thick fur coat.

A little cloud here is that FIL is really upset that we're D'ing, he has always been very fond of me and is very down now.

But otherwise the work on my house is progressing very well and I hope to move in there in two-three weeks!

Greetz
Brit from Belgium

Alph
A Lotus/Vauxhall VX220

Sorry, just got lazy typing and abbreviated your handle. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It's a real shame about your FIL. You do plan to stay in touch, right?

My sit with my in-laws is a little complex. They are appearing to be 'on my side' at the moment, but I think this is mainly because they are terrified of losing their grandchildren if me and WH D.

Glad to hear the house sit is going well - moving house has always been exciting for me, tho I know most people dread it!

Alph.

friends

Yes I hate it when that happens ! I had to cancel a full day of work today too in order to retrieve my car ! GRR

Its beautiful here too. I hope to reclaim this summer for love and for good after last was destroyed by Squid's affair.

I will try to chill out and enjoy the journey to Basingstoke and the drive back at least !

We had our Border Collie, Murphy clipped too because of the heat ! He's a VERY lush coated blue Merle and he's like a puppy again now with short hair !

He loves HARD runs with the ball - he doesn't know how to have a relaxed walk - and he's exhausted after 5 minutes in this weather . I took him last last night ( 9pm) but it was still too hot for him. Poor dog !

Not bad, my dear bOb !
We used to have an MGF (has just been sold).

I considered an MGTF but my head stuck above the window frame !

I sit MUCH lower in the Speedster so it got the nod ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Haha! Then MGF is not good for you - the flies tend to stick to your teeth !

yes just like StrongFoundation on her Harley !! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sigh, my last three summers have been marred by Princ Charming's affair and this one doesn't look too promising either.

Lucky you! Summer in love! Enjoy!

If you and Squid can do it, hopefully we all will, too!

LT

I know how blessed I am. I just hope Squid knows too.

Oddly, for a beautiful day I'm having a bit of a 'sorry for myself' morning so far.

I have them occasionally.

But I'll get over it. I always do. And I really don't have much to be 'sorry for myself' for any more <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Grrr I'm not letting anything or anyone ruining my summers, springs, winters or autumns anymore !!
I'm reclaiming the lot !

I know about the "sorry for myself" feelings... so I have to include myself in the "anything or anyone" !

I'm having one of those sorry for yourself days, too.

I've been doing pretty good lately. This giving, giving, giving of Plan A getting nothing, or little, in return is hard work, but even more difficult is always acting so upbeat, especially on a day when you just want to climb under a rock and sob.

Dear Losttranslation,
that's exactly why a plan A cannot be continued forever.
WH has to become FWH or at some point you'll have to decide to go to plan B or D.
You're worth having a good, loving partner by your side!
Hang on in there honey...
I have to leave for work now but I'll "transmit" any fun I have today to you, so be prepared <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> !
((((Losttranslation)))) and anyone else here who feels down today.

LT, I gave a LOT in Plan A - My Squid was totally committed to OM - but now I get more back than I give from Squid.

Totally agree with Brownhair though. Plan A isn't giving without boundaries. If you ar ebeing a dorrmat, go to plan B.

All blessings.

Thanks bOb and brownhair.

I do have very firm boundaries and Prince Charming will be banned back to his dark and lonely little bachelors pad as of Monday. He'll be coming home to an empty place with dishes to do, dinner to cook, laundry and cleaning. Hopefully it will hit him like a 2x4 after his really nice two weeks of having the family dote on him every evening.

No, I won't become a doormat, just a welcome mat and I do do things to reward myself. I'm doing better at enjoying life again, just a PMS kind of day today and a little burnt out...

Nice to have friends to talk to this with!

Bob - please e-mail me at [email]chacklerbelle@yahoo.com.[/email] I need your help with someone who's wife had an affair...

Hello everyone!!


I'm investing heavily in toothpicks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

My laptop broke 2 nights ago <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> so I've had to fire up the desktop....not so convenient!

Honestly Bob fancy losing your kets! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Basingstoke is just down the road from me...in fact hubby worked at "that" very office until he moved to Farnborough. No longer working for them now.....escaped last year.

After reading through some melancholic posts I wanted to raise my Diet Coke and say "here's to a summer in love".

Summer wasn't so good last year for us either. It's good to feel "connected" now.

Hi Chackler

Mail sent.

Hope I can help.

* All

MAN ! Yesterday I drove home from basingstoke in teh blistering 35deree heat, and today its bucketing down with rain !

Ahh...English summers ! No wonder the Brits pester France, Spain , Florida and Greece every summer !

b0b, you know we love our weather really... what else do we have that is as interesting?

Are you and yours off to any those destinations you mentioned this summer, b0b? The girls and I are off to Barcelona to visit friends in August.

Alph.

Alph, Squid and I have a challenge - I work all over the place so I like to spend my Holiday sat home or in Wales...SQUID adores travel so wants to go to the most esoteric and wierd places imaginable !

This year I don't think we'll go on a foreign holiday.

I can't book in good faith for this summer with MIL so very ill ( "well, she's BOUND to be dead by then so I'll book...see my point" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> )

And our usual Xmas in the sun is squished because my neice is getting married on Dec 28th and my Kate is a bridesmaid.

It won't hurt us for one year. Especially if we have a nice summer weather wise.

We love rural greece, and try to go every couple of years or so.

I've worked in barcelona but never holidayed there. Spend a lovely couple of weeks in Alicante, down the coast a few years ago however.

We foolishly booked an 'allocate on arrival' holiday and we were taken to a horrible dosshouse in benidorm where the elevators swilled with vomit and the rooms were like stys.

I called my company's travel agent who got us a junior suite in the Melia Alicante and we went there next day. THAT was lovely !

Alphin it's great you have Barcelona booked up!

The good run of weather finally broke today in the South....thunderstorm all afternoon and it's still raining. Of course the heavens chose school pick-up to open up. Soggy mummy and children as my lightning conductor (umbrella) wasn't big enough for the 3 of us!

Can't wait to go, StrongFoundation!

It will be great to have a break from plan A as well - forget all about WH for a week. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

To quote big Arnie "I need a vacation" (spoken in a thick Austrian accent).

You guys come to the continent... I love coming to England. Have spent many wonderful holidays in the South of England, Cornwall, Isle of Man.

I just finished planning the holiday roster with my colleguae in Brussels and it looks like August is out for me, no time for vacation, so I'll have to move it up to July or move it on to September!

As all my money is going to the work on my new home I'll probably have to take my tent..

Edited to add:
Enjoy your trip, Alphin! You definitely need a break from plan A and doing something just for you!

No rain here yet - it's still somewhere over the North Sea I guess. Clouds are building up, though.

Poor Bob - 35° isn't fun, especially when you need to stop the car. I love my airconditioned car very much right now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

I thought you were trying to get America back through buying one holiday home at a time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

H and I now call Flordia Flordiashire since so many brits own there now.

My treat for myself this summer is not to have to deal with H's mother.

Yeah, you're not joking - my sister lives there! Though strictly speaking she's not British, but that's another story...

Alph.

I'm trying to live there too !

Bob - did you see my previous posts to ya???

Yep, sent you a mail earlier. Will try again right now.

Funny that we are all on holiday talk!

Yesterday afternoon was a goodbye party for D10's class. she finishes up elementary school and all the kids, moms, and a few dads went to the park to barbecue and play games.
Prince Charming came to join us (D10, MIL, and me) after finishing work. Upon returning home, he helped put D10 to bed while I cleaned up our BBQ stuff. Then I asked him if I should open a bottle of wine; he said that'd be lovely.


A little chit-chat. Talk about the kids, about MIL. There were other things on my mind ... like when the hell are you going to get rid of OW in your life, etc. Then HE addresses a subject I've been fretting about: summer vacation! He has been an [censored] on our last vacations together (I now know that he was emailing and SMSing with OW EVERERYDAY) OR he has been taking trips alone "to think"... more like escape responsibilty....anyway I am digressing.

I've been going through holiday broshures and have got a couple holiday plans from our travel agent and was planning a holiday on my own with D10 (D17 will be working at a summer boarding school). WH had noticed, perhaps felt left out, and asked. I told him that I would probably be going to Collioure (Rousillon-French Catalonia coast). He asked if he could join us!!!


Well folks, I don't know if I have a WH about to become a FWH or a cake eating fence sitter on my hands!?! Monday is WH appointment with SH.

I did give WH HNHN to read chapters 1,2, and 10 --- didn't want to over-challenge him. Last night he said he had read the first 2 chapters, liked the book, and planned to read the whole thing!!!!

I am trying to remain even-keel and not get too hopeful. I've been rejected and burned too many times.


Still, I have a small little hope. Maybe not for a summer in love, but perhaps a new start and the beginning of recovery.

Hope springs eternal LT, maybe hope 'summers' eternal too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

All blessings for a strong summer for you !

I was grateful for my car with airco today.
I went shopping for things for my new house when I noticed a 2-year old lying on the floor of a hardware store, crying. Her 8 months pregnant mother soon showed up, explaining that the little girl lost mommy's car/house keys. The poor woman kept looking for the keys but the store is quite big and she was getting tired, and so was little girl, and it was really hot. So I offered to drove her home, which she finally accepted. I got her home safely (luckily the door wasn't locked) and the airco-temperature in my car finally made her relax, I think she was getting in a bit of a shock.

I remembered vividly how I felt 15 years ago, when I was 8 months pregnant like she was, and also in the middle of a heath wave. And I didn't have a whining 2-year old to carry around!

Brownhair you were a good samaritan. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Poor woman!

I think you guys have lost the art of romance ..... must be because you are on the wrong side of the globe... now look this is a Aussie love poem you can use that I made special for the missus just because she about to drop the big bubs pretty soon - crikey she's gi-normous... yeah I know I'm a romantic softie <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Of Course I Love Ya Darling
Your A Bloody Top Notch Bird
And When I Say Your Gorgeous
I Mean Every Single Word

So Ya Bum Is On The Big Side
I Dont Mind A Bit Of Flab
It Means That When I'm Ready
Theres Somethin There To Grab

So Your Belly Isnt Flat No More
I Tell Ya, I Dont Care
So Long As When I Cuddle Ya
I Can Get My Arms Sorta There

No Sheila Who Is Your Age
Has Nice Round Perky Breasts
They Just Gave Into Gravity
But I Know Ya Did Ya Best

Im Tellin Ya The Truth Now
I Never Tell Ya Lies
I Think Its Very Sexy
That Youv Got Dimples On Ya Thighs

I Swear On Me Nannas Grave Now
The Moment That We Met
I Thought U Was As Good As
I Was Ever Gonna Get

No Matter Wot U Look Like
Ill Always Love Ya Dear
Now Shut Up While The Footys On
And Get Me Another Beer! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Beautiful Aussie, just beautiful. Eloquent and touching!!

I know TT


can you believe she told me to get my own darn beer ??? Sometimes you just can't win with Sheila's <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

ROFL Aussie ! Only Strines can be so eloquent ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi b0b,

I don't know much about rugby, but even I can see we got our butts whipped today.

Oh, what has happened since the world cup???

Alph.

LT just saw your post...didn't see it earlier.

WOW.....chink in the fog?

Don't start me on this ! I warn you !! I can bore to a worldwide standard on rugby !

Everyone has been having to much summer fun to post here I hope <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

SF,

We shall see, we shall see.

The aliens do seem to send him back to Earth for brief moments.


bOb,

is rugby a ball sport, or is that the thing with the little birdy? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Dear LT,
getting him into orbit around Earth might help <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.
If the aliens let him.

Hi timezone friends ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

VERY busy, have to cram in an account review this morning and take Squid for lunch somewhere we can sit outside ! LOVELY summer's week so far here !

Bit sad today, can't shake it off. Couldn't sleep.

But I'll be fine ! I always am <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

well, I hope that all my timezone friends here had a good weekend!

I wanted to ask you all to check in on my thread http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...ID=#Post2746165
And give any input you might have.

The SH appointment has been postponed a week.
WH has not moved back out. I'm not sure if that is good or bad.

LT at least you can plan A in a concentrated way with him at home. If you can stand the chaos and hurt that is...

hanging in there with Plan A. B-day party for WH last night... Daughters are gone on school field trips, so R talk planned for tonight.

Did you guys see pepperband's excellent post on the carrot and stick of Plan A?

I saw that post by Pep. It was so great I saved it in Word on my hard drive.

Alph.

Hi Bob,

Just back from my little break and was trailing through the site when I found your note to me from earlier on in the month.

Thank you for taking the time to send those kind words - it's all the little things that people do that make the big differences to how we feel, and keep us from feeling lonely.

I'm not too good at getting around this site, so my apologies to you for not thanking you sooner Bob,

Hope

SF - we need more former waywards on these forums. I find a special comfort - encouragement - when I get a note from a FW. It gives me hope to see that the FWs can really come back, and i believe it will help one day with my WW to see that FWs are active here. Hope is all i have got right now. Thanks for spending time here. I appreciate you greatly.

FAR

FAR some of my best counsellors and comforters were (and remain) FWS.

But it must be horrible for them to rake over scars on these boards once their M is miraculously recovered.

To be constantly asked to describe behaviours and thoughts you had during the most shameful and regrettable time of your life must be very hard, especially as most recovered FWS bear almost no resemblance to the people they became during their affair.

most just want to enjoy the unexpected blessing of their rcovered marriages. And who can blame them.

But I agree FWS offer comfort.

When I first arrived her, two WONDERFUL FWS ladies took me under their wings: KYellow and KiwiJ. Their assurances were like mothers' kisss upon my brow and their advice was flawless.

Nowadays both are working on the blessing of well recovering marriages.

There are still FWS who persevere for new FBS however, Suzet is indefatigable, Chorus , Smur and Chackler are all generous in their help too.

Post your questions non judgmentally and I feel sure you will get an answer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

FOlks I was drive to Hursley near the south cost yesterday and today I am going to Edinburgh ! So much travel this week arrgh !

I am meeting an old friend for a beer later tonight so that will be good. And its always nice for Squid to miss me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What you folks doing ?

What am I doing today?
Well I just finished up a BIG project in my office here at home and got to write a BIG bill! ...well, big for me, anyway, I'm a one-woman show.

Ha! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> in more ways than one as WH has discovered!

After going for a run, it's kitchen duty for me today. It's Prince Charming's birthday and I've invited him for a romantic dinner for two. We'll have sushi to start, then ravioli stuffed with smoked trout in a basil-orange-safron sauce, then gingered creme brulee with mango compote.

Why am I doing this?

Why am I doing this?

Because to your great credit your WHs actions have not removed your decency nor all your love for him.

You are NOT allowing his hurt to become a communicable disease.

As long as it doesn't hurt you, doing such human things is very healthy for YOUR soul IMO.

Sounds lovely! I hope you have a great time tonight!

Alph.

That trip to the Alps sounds even more appealing - she cooks gourmet Alph - get in there! TT

*Dreams of gourmet food in an Alpine setting and drools like Homer Simpson* <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


Alph.

Well the rain & the thunderstorms finally hit Belgium! We had no phone today at the Brussels' office, it seems the cables good flooded somewhere!

LT, I hope your H and yourself enjoyed the dinner. If not, tell him you'll have plenty of MB'ers who are willing to take his place at your dinner table <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for myself, I'm currently looking for a correct word to describe my STBX's behavior. One week after I told him I didn't want to stay in the M, he started dating other women. He has a "girlfriend" now who's 12 years older than he is. He thinks she's too old for him, she thinks he's too young for her, but they'll "do" for now because both of them don't like being alone. I know she'll be here taking my place as soon as I move out.

H still doesn't understand why I won't take him back. He will be good from now on.. promises (again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />) not give to give in to any SA.. will drop this new girlfriend (and all the others he's dating and chatting with) if I decide to take him back.. now why oh why don't I want such a great guy? Who is so very friendly towards me?

What is this? Thick? Inconsiderate? Plain stupid? Self-centered?

It's like when someone robs you of all your money, leaving you to fend for yourself, and then tells you very friendly about all the nice things he's doing with YOUR money.
Argh. I want out of here.

BH, your boundaries are a credit to you. Your WH thinks he can charm and manipulate his way to ANYthing he wants.

Except your heart <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When are you moving out ? Shouldn't it be WH moving out as you have done nothing wrong ?

Hi BP !
I hope to move out in two-three weeks. My new house looked like a construction site up until last week, but the new ceilings are in place now - bathroom and kitchen and flooring still to be done. I'll be so glad to finally be able to do the finishing work like painting!

I'm moving out because I cannot afford our present house - it's as simple as that. But the location of my new house is MUCH better than the present one. It's right in the middle of Brussels and Antwerp, and I work in both cities - it'll save me lots of travelling time to live there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for my boundaries - they are simple. No fysical violence and no lies. H never hurt me physically, but plenty emotionally and I cannot live with a dishonest person. He promised all those things before - and broke his promises, sneaking away to P's again. And was chatting on dating sites a lot without me knowing it. It wasn't a breach of NC, as he never contacted OW again or was in love with her still or whatever. No no, he simply used her, and like he stated "it was getting old after a year" so NC was easy for him, almost a relief as OW was getting more clingy and demanding.

When I tell him that he shows no respect for women, he replies that Oh yes he does! He even asked those P's if they wouldnt mind having sex with him, as he would never force a woman to do that! What a wonderful guy.

Well I guess it's the sort of fog that might never clear. Like OW who said that "she didn't feel it was wrong because it felt so good". Yuck.

I'm going to play football with my dog now - she lying in the garden looking at me with those big brown eyes saying "please, please come out and play with me" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Have a nice weekend y'all !

Hope everyone is having a nice weekend.

I've been road training on a motorbike all week (7 hours a day!) and had my test yesterday in the pouring rain...and I PASSED. No-one was more surprised than me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

So....I've just taken my Harley out for the first time...boy was that different from the bike I'd been training on. What a feeling though to be riding with my husband....WoW!

ALPHIN....I just read on your thread you saying WH wants to be friends. I distinctly remember that when my husband told me no way on earth would he or could he be friends with me if we divorced it was a jolt of reality for me. I couldn't bear the thought of never being his friend again....that told me a lot. That led me on to thinking of growing old and I could only imagine growing old with hubby. We had always talked of what we'd do when the girls had left and we could retire (early preferably!).

So him saying he couldn't be friends with me was another turning point back towards him.


FAR...thank you for your post...you saying you only have hope reminds me of when my hubby used to say that to me. I didn't understand that at the time....how could he hope I'd mentally come back to him after what I'd done. Now I understand that was unconditional love and I'm blown away by it and very humbled.

I keep meeting people now who seem to give up very easily on their relationships. I point them to MB and tell them how wonderful things could be if they worked hard at it...they roll their eyes as if to say that's too much like hard work. Perhaps I was like that before, I don't know, but now working hard at our relationship is actually joyous. A real labour of love!

I need to say this to my WH. It will be hard. He already thinks I am being 'unfriendly' because of exposure, but is still showing some signs of unbelieveable fogginess regarding this.

MIL said to him last week that if he keeps up his affair, they (MIL and FIL) will never see us together again as a family down at their place (we've had many, many happy Christmases and birthdays there together).

WH said 'I'm sure it won't come to that'. HELLO? He thinks that I am going to bring myself and the girls down to his mother's place when he is staying there with OW??? I told MIL flat that if OW is staying there, I will never be there at the same time.

What planet is he on? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


Alph.

Dear Alphin,

fog is a very, very weird thing.
STBXWH insisted that I should keep (indefinitely) attending his family dinners because I'm the godmother of his brother's 3-year old son. I said ok, so then when you have a new girlfriend, we'll all go? Or she won't go or what?

Such are the words of people who refuse to accept the consequences of their actions. Who want to believe they are the "nice guys" and no-one could be hurt by their selfish actions.

If your H comes out of the fog he might kick his own a$$ for saying or thinking what he did. Or he might deny he ever did. That's how the human mind works.

Hi, brownhair.

I've heard that some FWS kick their own a$$, and some deny they ever said the things they did.

I note you say 'if' my H comes out of the fog. I am beginning to wonder 'if' he will ever emerge!

When he's here, I love him. When he's gone, and with OW, I don't. He knows how I feel about him - is he cake eating or what?

Grrr....

Alph.

Cake eating, fence sitting.. I would say he is yes, if he's enjoying the company of his family (you included) AND of OW.

Do you have a time limit for plan A - before you go to plan B, that is ?

Edited to add...
My STBXWH is a nice person. He's friendly. He cares about me. Just not enough to be faithful, or to respect my feelings when they get in the way of his fun with other women. He wants to be single and married at the same time, enjoying the benefits of both.
Guess what? The cake he wanted to "have and eat" came at an extremely high price - it cost him my love. Because he doesn't want to change.

I do have a time limit - if I can stick to it. I'm plan A-ing until the Autumn.

WH is also a nice person, and friendly. He also cares about me (at least he said so when he left). He's just 'in love' with someone else now, and therefore everything between us is nothing. He has to be with her, even if it means his children cry, we don't have enough money, and his parents are embarrassed and baffled.

BTW - do you think you can be friends with your STBXWH when you divorce?

Alph.

Hello dear Alphin,
no, I don't think I can be friends with him, just like I can't be friends anymore with OW (who was my best friend). I wish H no harm. I'm making sure everything in our D will be fair and no tainted by any "revenge" feelings I might have. Some might think I'm being too reasonable, but I just want my fair share, just like I would want if we'd separate for other reasons.
But the lies and the selfish acts, and the complete stubborn refusal to change his behavior (which looks like SA) - the refusal to really consider my EN's etc. etc. leaves me with absolutely no desire for any further contact. I just want to get on with my life.

This is how I feel. I can be civil with WH, and I even laugh and joke with him (could only do this when the girls were around at first, but now it's getting easier to do on our own, as well). If we divorce, there will be only the kids.

He told me when he left that there was nothing left between us but the kids. This was a lie, but if we divorce it will be true. Then I will talk to him about matters regarding the children, but nothing else.

Alph.

Dear Alphin,

I think a M can be restored, even when you feel like you are feeling now, if:
- WS returns home and promises NC (writes the letter and sticks to it)
- BS can wait for the remaining fog to clear and any withdrawl effects to end
- WS and BS work to meet each other's EN's
- WS and BS go into counseling.

I got NC easily, there was so "love-fog" to deal with. But H didn't bother to meet my EN's while I did all I could to meet his (to his 120% satisfaction). And when it became clear that he in fact has an SA, and keeps looking for the rush of meeting new women on the internet or going to P's, he didn't think it necessary to go into counseling because he would simply "not do it anymore".
So - no meeting of EN's and no counseling, and repeated cheating - that is a recipe for disaster and for D.

I hope that things will be different in your case. But I'm sure you can have a good life, no matter what happens, and that has to be your only goal - a good life for you and your children.

((((Alphin)))))
Brit from Belgium

Hi Brownhair.

As you know, in my sitch there is a lot of 'love-fog' to deal with. I do wonder if it will ever clear.

My WH is actually a very faithful person (ironic as this may sound). I don't think he'd cheated on me before he 'fell in love' with OW, and he has convinced himself that leaving me, because he 'loved' her, was the only honourable thing to do. Of course, this is B$, but he has been 'faithful' to his new 'love'. He withdrew from me completely after he became involved with her, stopped even kissing and cuddling me, even before he told me about the A. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Unfortunately, 'soulmate' affairs are also a recipe for D. Add to that a OW with a very strong personality, who can more or less manipulate WH to her will... It's a long shot for us, and I know it.

Alph.

Well, fellow near timezoners...

Its summer. PISSING down with rain, and no sign of a break in the clouds ! Welcome to England ! LOL !

Bit of a crap time in our house right now, matched by the weather. I've never worked out if the weather affects my moods or vice versa !

We'll be fine though. I'm blessed and I know it.

You folks having a good day in sunney Yerp , this 4th July ?

Hi b0b,

Thinking of you and Squid at this time!

Alph.

Have any of you considered contacting the Harley's to see if they would be willing to hold a Conference in England?

Or have you considered taking their course to become a Marriage Coach?

Another website, if you haven't checked it out is
http://www.familylife.com/

They have various articles not just on marriage, but parenting, some things specific to men, some to women, and they post their radio broadcasts that you can listen to over the web.



They also have an international ministry, and are holding a "Weekend to Remember" Conference for marriages planned for Oct. 8th & 9th

http://www.familylife.uk.com/

Hosted by: CROWSTONE CHRISTIAN CENTRE Crowstone Road, Westcliff on Sea, Essex SS0 8LH
Telephone (01702) 352668 www.crowstone.org


http://www.familylife.com/about/international/overview.asp

Just something else to consider checking out that can help your marriages.

Weeeh I did it.. I bought my house today (I got the keys so I could do work in it, but the sell wasn't final yet)!!
I now am the proud & official owner of my little house on the "prairie". Hurray !

And I almost beat STXWH with bowling haha... (our first "date" this year).

I think I'll sleep well tonight.
Wishing you all the same!
Brit from Belgium

Congratulations, Brownhair!

Must feel great.

You bowl with your STBXWH? I must say, I kinda like the idea of 'dating' my WH.

Alph.

**threadjack**

Hey Bob, did you see this??


continued here

Bob, y'all need to open up a can of whoop [censored] on those Frenchies!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Can't believe that silly Russian was dissing our hamburgers!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

French food is over-rated.
You can eat better & cheaper in Belgium!
And I had some excellent food in Arizona <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.
And freedom fries in New York!
(Can you tell I'm not too keen on the Frenchies? They look down on us "little Belgians" but when push comes to shove, my STBXWH has to go to Paris to solve their IT-problems, haha.)

Hmm... interesting idea. In fact, if you could get up to a point where you are less available WH might get more interested in you. I remember a poster here (don't remember her name) whose WH also didn't live with her anymore and who dated him. Not giving him too much encouragment and making him believe she went on dates with other men sometimes (which she never did <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) - now that got him interested!

It might be a little too soon for that if WH is still "in deep" with OW, but showing some gentle independence could be a good thing.

I think it is too early - he is so 'in love' with OW!

But we've always had a very flirty relationship. Once I'm not feeling so hurt (or once the ADs start to kick in) and the romance is fleeing the septic lovenest, I might give it a try!

Alph.

BTW, the worst food I ever had was in Paris.

I was 14, and went there for a weekend with my mom. In this scruffy little place we had tripe to start, followed by what was meant to be chicken - but wasn't. It was horrid! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

Mel I heard that I thought it was hilarious !

To get the fun stuff out of the way, I'll take culinary criticism from any nation that doesn't include horses, amphibians and snails on its food roster ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The truly hilariou sthing is the reasoning behing Chrac's comments -

We brits have raised uncomfortable arguments against EU federalisation for years now, culminating in this current government's acknowledgement that there is no financial benefit to us joining, and that the British people would vote 'non' to any Euro referendum.

Our GUARANTEED 'no' vote allowed otherwise quite "europhile" citizens of other countries to protest vote against the financial limitations of the Euro currency and the silly, SILLY constitution and dumb beaurocracy of the EU mechanism.

The Dutch voted a resounding and intelligent 'no' to the EU constitution, and even the French people voted a big 'non' also, but for DIFFERENT reasons ( a fear that their enormous EU farming subsidy and extreme socialist employment policies may be changed to their detriment in the EU constitution).

In turn this made OTHER nations admit their disquiet with the Euro currency and the EU gnerally. Italy,for example, are * that* close to restoring the Lira because fiscal constructs in the Euro tie Italian interest rates to those which primarily support Germany and France - MUCH more stable econmomies. Its killing them, basically.

Chirac has been a huge advocate of a very socialist Federal Europe, and absolutely HATES Britain for so many reasons.

The recent French 'no' vote to the European constitution has left him an emasculated laughing stock in France and in Europe.

So for a 'great statesman' to be reduced to schoolboy jokes about food is actually hilarious and a testament to Blair's government's effective defense of Britain's best interests against the uber-socialists like Chirac in the EU.

Incidentally I also agree that food in Belgium is far less pretentious, flavoursome and hearty than in Paris, and far more refined than in some French provinces.

And the beer...Oh, Man the BEER in Belgium !

PS, amusing that a man whose father supported the collaborating vichy government under nazi rule should accuse Britian, who liberated them with the Americans of untrustworthiness huh ?

sheesh, we liberated those masters of surrender for this? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Don't get me started on our beer!
I have my brown Leffe right here.
NOw I even start to rhyme
but that's no crime <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Bob, when I come to Wales
I'll bring you and Squid some great ales!

No-one else in the mood for a little rhyme <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ?

The Olympics in London 2012, would u believe it!!

Yep! By the looks on their faces at BCC1, the Brits can't believe it either !

Against all odds, Paris were the out and out favourites, makes me laugh that we will have the Olympics late July/early August, smack in the middle of our rainy season - for those that haven't visited the UK, we have about 1 sunny weekend a year - that's summer, the rest is rain.

FreeAllAngels

LOL Brownhair ! Sorry for delay, been with customer in Edinburgh all day ! LOL !

I'll have to visit. I have an almost perfect no-rain track record for Britain - whenever I visit, it doesn't rain!

Bob, what's your favorite Belgian beer (of the 500) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />?

C'mon UK and Europe, we have a long way to go to catch up with the IDIOTVILLE thread !

I'm here!!!

So, what do we talk about?

News over here is pretty depressing at the moment.

How are you, Brownhair? Are you sorted for your move yet?

Alph.

Hi Alphin!

I loved the "You'll have to do better than this, Osama" writing on the bus.

My house is progressing nicely! Although the man that is doing most of the repairs called me today saying "You'll have to buy some rat poison, Miss, there are rat holes in the cellar." Bless the man for crawling into the shallow parts of my cellar to fix the pipes there. I get claustrofobic just thinking about it, let alone when you don't know if some rat will come visit you there!

He looks like Yul Brunner in Taras Bulba so a little rat doesn't scare him, but still...

WH is still dating. The older woman has "broken off" their relationship now, but still wants to be friends. He is already seeing another woman regularly, still friends right now but I wonder for how long. When I told him it's not easy for me that he's dating like that while I'm still here, he says that he understands... and that's it. That's basically the problem with WH: he understands, but doesn't act upon it. Weird behavior for a man who still wants me back into his life. Now why oh why wouldn't I want him anymore?

I'm going to take a nice hot bath and go to bed (it's one hour later here than in England <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)
WH is watching Boomerang (with Eddy Murphy) and I don't really feel like watching it with him.

If you ever feel like e-mailing, here's my address:
britfrombelgium@hotmail.com

Goodnight, Brownhair. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

It seems all you UK and European MB'ers are having a wonderful time this weekend, and are not checking in here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. For my birthday I'm going out for lunch with my mother and sister and then I'll find out what they have been up to all week asking me "what color I like" etc.
Have a wonderful Sunday y'all !

BH, yes I had a LOVELY Weekend thanks !

Went to our holiday home in Wales. It was GLORIOUSLY hot and we drank wine and talked and laughed with friends, and we talked and laughed with each other and we made love and played with our children in the sunshine and the river.

People had worse weekends than Squid and I, surely. Ours was lovely.

Hope had a great one too ! Like the cake by the way !!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I assembled a desk this weekend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I had a glass of wine out on the deck, as well!!!

OK, I admit my weekend wasn't thrilling.

Alph.

Alph, my weekend should have been awful - its a serious "fanniverary" today...a bad one..a year ago today squid banged OM in a motel telling me she was shopping with her sister, and stole our kids college money to set up house with OM.

She is a completely different person today, I found no reason to be sad.

bOb,

I am so glad that you and others that have recovered or are recovering their marriages are here to encourage us!!! Hard to believe that your Squid was so far gone, and you are so happy today!

I had an intense weekend with WH. Good and bad. It's a rocky road. WH had the assignment from SH of doing step 1a for reconciliation. He managed to take partial responsibility for his affair --- the main reason it happend was that I was neglecting his emotional needs. This is not exactly what Harley had in mind, I think, but still progress. WH admitts that he has emotions and emotional needs. He is reading HNHN. Progress in tiny steps. I guess I should be happy that there is at least some signs that the fog is breaking.

Still, I won't fool myself. I've still got a non-remorseful H that has continued contact with OW.

Sounds like a wonderful weekend Bob. Congrats.

Happy Belated Birthday Brownhair! Where's my cake?????

Alphin...assembling a desk is something to celebrate and be proud of girlie <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> A very productive weekend! Reclaiming a bedroom as your study area for your writing is VERY Plan A. Good for you.

The weather has been gorgeous since Saturday afternoon. We did lots of court case stuff which has dominated our lives since early February....it takes hubby away from "us" and is a concern for me but we managed to balance it this weekend with a ride out with our girls...eek. We also sat on the patio last night until 10pm as it was so warm....we snuggled with a glass of wine. It was lovely.

My DD10 went donutting at a local dry ski slope for a birthday party....she enjoyed that!

Still, I won't fool myself. I've still got a non-remorseful H that has continued contact with OW.
LT, I'll be honest, it was only the fact that OM GF responded like a tigress to my exposure with proof that ended Squids affair. She absolutely didn't want to - was smitten with the old wastrel.

OM GF kicked [censored] shen I exposed to her and OM dumped Squid like a hot turd fearing losing everything.

YES MB worked and I stuck to it well, but I was lucky OM was such a wastrel roue and OM GF was so tough on him.

All blessings LT. This stuffs hard.

I must admit I was very proud of myself - it's hardly wonky at all! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

"Hardly wonky" sounds perfect!!

LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hardly wonky sounds ok to me too LOL !
You go girl !

Well my timezone chums ! Hot and dry here isn;t it ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

32 degrees here and lovely except when you try to sleep ! It was mor ethan 20 degrees overnight without a BREATH of breeze to cool us !

I understand France has issued a drought warning which does not bode well for the vendange <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I sat in my little car being baked for three hours yesterday afternoon - I have a strange tan - arms to the elbows, face except for sunglasses patches !

Summer in Northern Europe - gotta love it !

Enjoy the day, friends

Lucky you!

We've been having torrential rains, even some mountain rivers and streams overflowing. I was beginning to feel moldy! The sun is out today and it should warm up some. I have tons of work here in my home office, but will get out into the garden and perhaps a bike ride.

When summer is nice, Britian is a lovely place to be, but it happens so rarely... In Wales at the weekend the weather was marvellous, and we had a lovely time. I hope it keeps up while the kids are off school this summer !

We're having a wonderful warm week here in Belgium. That's good for the repair works (have to dry) in my new home. And good for everybody's mood.

Just found out why WH is being so friendly... GF#1 broke it off... and GF(to be?)#2 is mad at him because he's still meeting GF#1, which is strange since she's also seeing some other guy herself.. Oh the wonderful world of free relationships!

Impressive silence at noon.
I had BBC1 tele on and the one minute silence was a strong statement.

I had a conference call that started at midday UK time. Everyone joined at 12:02. Very touching.

One suicide bomber was a 19 YO boy.......

bOb,

Been enjoying this thread. When I was in 'stan I stared down a boy about as old as my oldest son. No older than 15 yrs old. Had a gun when he should have had a football.

Are they that desperate that they would enlist their children so?

Mind boggling. I am reluctant to fight BECAUSE I have children. USING them to fight I can't even comprehend.

NCW

NC

Bomber details here

* shakes head *

18 and 22 two of them....

One of them Jamaican...bizarre

Folks

Going to be a great weekend, cool breeze but sunny. Have a good one.

Hey b0b thanks for the trick of putting some washing up liquid on the kids waterslide, they dont half zoom past you.

FreeAllAngels

FAR you too mate.

We're having old frinds over with their kids tomorrow evening, and Squid and DD12 are running a charity 5K for Cancer on Sunday.

Have a good un !

Hi, I'm based in ibiza but go back to the uk frequently. My adult children and other relatives live in northern england.

I've been happily married for almost 35 years...we were very young when we met. We've stood by each other through thick and thin. The last occaision when I had a breakdown and my wife rescued me by encouraging me to take early retirement and our moving to ibiza a year ago.

I started to recover very quickly; she commented that I was looking younger & she'd got the old me back. I settled on the island very quickly, she was more unsettled at first. We worked hard at making new friends. I befriended one guy & introduced him to my wife and the rest of my family who were over from england at the time.

I had to go to the uk by myself for two weeks returning on 2 july 05. We'd been apart before during the year but this was the first time she had stayed behind. On 4 july she told be that she had fallen in love during the 2 weeks & couldn't give him up.

She said she loved me but was 'inlove' with him; I had done nothing wrong..just one of those things. She did say though that I've always loved her too much & done too much for her. He's a musician, younger than me & she finds him exciting. She still wants to be my friend but has moved in with him (200 yds away).

She's staying in his small flat at night & coming home during the day. He's a stranger & can't satisfy all her ENs apart form passion & excitement, so she comes to me for the others...company etc. She also works here & uses all the facilities.

I don't seem to have made any headway in persuading her to give him up. She feels enormous guilt, feeling she has hurt me and the children but is still compelled to leave me.

I'm in a A going on B situation now. The presence of an alien who looks like my wife hurts too much. I also feel she's having her cake & eating it, using me as a bridge to when the OM can meet more of her needs, if the affair lasts. On Thursday I told her to stay away from me & the house until monday. After that, who knows?

I haven't told many people including the ILs who think a lot of me. I'm hestitant to do anything hasty or light fires all over the place.

No one should be expected to stay in a loveless or abusive marriage. Our marriage was/is wonderful and well worth fighting for.

This is my first post so I'm still finding my way round MB.

Help, advice & support urgently needed!

Hello mate ! Welcome to the best club in the world that nobody wants to be a member of <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

As I already said you're doing GREAT so far ! There is GREAT HOPE for yoru marriage HONESTLY !

I think what you need to do first is study and execute 'marriagebuilders Plan A'.

To quote the wise and excellent Pepperband


There is a lot of help for a new betrayed Spouse ( BS)in the New BS Toolkit .

It pulls together a lot of stuff that many people contributed.

Pour a long drink and study.

Also Ibiza, I suggest when you get more comfortable and are full of questions, post up a personal thread in General Questions 2.

You'll get more specific help there as most folke here are in the US of A.

I know from our exchanges that you have the grit and love to get your baby back, Ibiza.

These boards are FILLED with exemplary tales of heroism and love where broken hearted BS get their babys back.

You can do it !

All blessings !

Hi Guys,

I noticed Ibiza has his own thread, welcome my dear, you'll find a lot of friends here willing to help you.

While not all M's can be saved, others are certainly worthwhile saving.. and the WS will be very grateful that the BS kept the faith, against all odds sometimes. It's a battle worth fighting.

In my case it was an impossible fight.
I just found out about another lie and it's weird - I'm still shaking, even though I shouldn't care anymore as I'm ending this M.

There is this woman that H always thought was "so sexy and so wonderful" that has been a friend of him for a long time, even though she didn't want to get sexually involved with him. She went through a hard time and I supported her all the way, which made us good friends because she's one of those persons who will never forget it if someone stands up for her or is there for her when she needs help.

She didn't know about my H's A but she had her suspicions. Today she told me that my H had text messaged her a few times when his A was still "hot", asking her if she'd want to do a threesome with him and OW. Since she didn't know that my H was having an A, and since he'd joke about such things sometimes, she wasn't sure if he really meant it or was just joking. She immediately showed the text messages to her H (very wise woman) who was as annoyed by it as she was. She confronted my H, asking him if he was having an A with this OW, but he denied and didn't "text message" her anymore.

I was shocked. H had been willing to jeopardise yet another M. Not just ours, not just OW's, but this friends' M as well. I then told this friend what had really happened and she was shocked too because what my H had done. She also understood now that it hadn't been a joke; he had been "fishing".

It's so disgusting. I don't think I'll bother confronting STBXRWH with it. It just not worth it, and it doesn't change a thing, it just makes me more resolved.

Sorry for the rant guys and girls... thanks for reading it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Just needed to get it off my chest.

BH, that just reinforces your decision to end your ties to this diseased man.

BH, I echo what b0b has said.

Hope you are OK, despite learning this. How are things with the house?

Alph.

Quite true, Bob. It does. It just pains me how some WS seem to think that they're entitled to do just about anything and that it's ok just as long as they lie and deny.

Thanks Alphin, I'll be ok, I just don't want to see H's face right now. I'm going to treat myself to Star Wars 3.

My house is coming along nicely, just not as fast as I hoped since I really want to move out, now more than ever. I hope to do that in two weeks.

Argh. Yuck.

entitled

Y'know BH, I don't recall ever using that word in a bad sense before learning about affairs. Now its up there with 'cancer' and body parts words in its effect on me when I hear it.

I feel the same way Bob. I'm glad I'll be on my way & starting my own life again soon, and leave H to grow up by himself and see what happiness he'll get from the way he behaves around women. His lady friend was very disappointed in him when she heard the whole truth today (she had half-guessed it) and wasn't sure she wanted to have contact with him anymore - one more loss suffered by his selfish behavior.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Brownhair how horrendous.

His lady friend wasn't sure if she still wanted contact with him? Is she completely doolally?

I hope the next 2 weeks whizz past for you so you can move into your new house and be in your own private space. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I will make them wizz, dear StrongFoundation <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

This lady friend has been friends with H for 20 years and he has always been there for her when she needed him. That's why they were friends. But she was very disappointed in my H after what I told her, and now realised he isn't the "nice guy" he always tried to look like. She thought he treated me very badly and resented him for it. It's up to her what she'll do. Like me, she's too friendly and puts up with a lot from the people she cares for, but it also bothers her that my STBXRWH doesn't respect her H, though, and since she loves her H very much, I think their relationship might at best remain "polite".

She must be a CA then.

Well Brownhair you are ONE WHOLE DAY closer to your new house. How cool is that!?!

Talking of whizzing....I had a go on DD10 scooter this weekend....whizzed all around the patio...I'd forgotten how much fun they are. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Not sure what the weather is doing for you guys but today it's cloudy and chilly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hello StrongFoundation,

Haha I can just imagine you zooming around on the patio!
Cloudy and finally not so hot here... wonderful !
The electricity is being put in today and that's a huge step ahead. Some more flooring & painting to do & I'm moving!!

Yes this friend and myself, we're both CA's. But even then someone can cross "our line".

G'day folks

just dropping by to say 'ello 'ello to the europeans!

Hows ya all? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Hey Aus ! Not bad mate ! had a tough work morning ( not like YOUR worst work morning, but my normal standards, right ? ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> )

Went for a chinese lunch with Squid and had a nice time.

Now I'm TIRED, could use anap but gotta work.

life is hard ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hows your broken parts , kiddo ? getting better ?

And I've not seen a foto of Mike for a while either !

Hey Bob

ever tried to get a photo from a Nanna???? Anyone would think I asked for blood!! LOL

Good to see you working ok and Squid doing well. Think I'd raher have your bad day though then mine as well to be frank.

AW is pretty worried that I'll have a busy day at the office, but I told her the odds are real good nothing like that will happen.

Been busy with signing my boys in and limping around like as my NCO's point out ..look out here comes bloody Long John Sliver again ... heh heh [censored]!!

Well trying my heart out mate to be ready to go with them but I'm not holding out any great hope ...everything is either patched or plugged but stamina is WAY under whats required. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Besides 'Ahem' is way under requirements <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Reviving this thread from page 12 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> !!

Example of conversation with foggy person.
Not love-fog but self-justification fog.
I'll use "X" instead of "STBXRWH".

Update: H is dating 2-3 women at this moment, one is already an ex-GF. I agreed the ex-GF would come over for a BBQ when I was away so our dog would have a babysit (rather than H going to visit this ex-GF and the dog being home alone). I thought she was "ex" but when I came home they weren't sitting outside at the BBQ but sitting on the couch. When the supposedly ex-GF snuggled up to H in a way that made me very uneasy. I took the dog for walk, slamming the door behind me. The ex-GF realised she had pushed things too far and left. H apologised when I got back, saying he "threw ex-GF out" and that "she shouldn't behave like that".

Me: "Well you might think she's such a nice person.. but she didn't mind being with someone else's H for 14 years.. so obviously she's not very sensitive to the feelings of the BW, or to my feelings in this case."
H: ** lost for an answer **
Me: "I told you before it's not easy for me that you're dating like that now. You said that you understand that it must be difficult for me - but you keep on doing it."
X: "But what was I supposed to do? Remain single and sit here at home with you?"
Me: "Would it have killed you to wait 2-3 more months? And don't you have any other things to do besides chase women?"
X: "Of course there are other things to do.. but it's not like I'm chasing women.. I can't help it if they want to have sex with me... Besides, those women that I have met.. they take advantage of me.." (I would have laughed at this point if I hadn't been so angry.)
Me: "Well, perhaps they do, but you're sure taking advantage of them too!"
X: Ex-GF wants sex.. I can't help it if she does, can I?

** BH fails to picture petite, frail ex-GF forcing H to have sex with her **

X: "Do you still want to be my friend?"
Me: "I don't think so. You haven't been treating me the way I think one should treat a friend."
X: "But I often phone you to ask if you need something from the shop, and I bbq for you."
Me: "Yes that's true. I'm not saying you're a completely bad person. But you are doing things that are hurtful and disrespectful to me, like starting to date women one week after I told you I wanted to end our M and while I'm still living here with you."
X: "But it was your choice to leave. You can stay here if you want. I still love you and still want you to be with me."
Me: "I don't have much of a choice. You told me you would never have sex with another woman again, and I believed you, and then you kept on chatting with women on the internet even when I told you I didn't want you to, and you went to P's again."
X: "But that's all in the past now!"
Me: "Sorry, I can't believe that anymore."

** BH sighs and walks away from fog**

{{{Brownhair}}}

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I see what you mean. His babble is almost endearing in its naivety.

When is your house ready?????

Thinking of ya,

Alph.

Just heard of the new bombs in London....are all our MB family ok??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

OK here, thank you.

Some areas have been evacuated - precautionary measures only so far...

Alph.

'bombs' were rail detonator apparently. No injuries.

'nuisances' I'll wager

We're watching it live from Sat helo Alphin ..it appears that if they are no some cruel hoax bomb that the detonators went off but not the main bomb.... thank God for that.

Bob

terror is terror, maybe they'll get them - the terrorists - this time!!

Luckily no-one got injured. Copy cats perhaps?

My husband was 2 mins behind the train going to Warren Street. He called me when he was evacuated as he didn't understand what was going on. The news hadn't reached the internet or TV at that point. He eventually walked back to his office.

He's now setting off to walk to Waterloo as the tube is still shut and camera crews have set up outside his office building with a helicopter above. Not sure what's going on there as his office wasn't directly in any of the areas.

Thankfully no-one is hurt....but I will be very glad to see him walk through the door tonight.

I'm glad everyone is ok in the UK!


I can't think of it as endearing, dear Alph, there's nothing endearing about behavior that wrecks M's. It might be different if he was my younger brother and all parties concerned would be single... But H went after my BF, even though she was M'd and even though the four of us were friends. He also tried to involve another M'd friend of his in his games. It's not endearing. It's stupid, unresponsible, immature and most of all, selfish.

He does have a way of presenting him as the "poor victim", and his boyish nature was the very thing that attracted OW. I don't find it attractive in an 37-year old that he's behaving like a spoiled 14-year old.

Oh well... not my problem for very much longer.. The house is coming along nicely but more slowly than I had hoped.. Hoping to move out in two weeks max. !
** BH makes little leap of joy ** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sorry, Brownhair - a very poor choice of words.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

Oh honey never mind !

Alphin, did you read the edited (added) post above about my house? (that's more important news really <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

That's what I meant (but I expressed it clumsily <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ). I'm surprised he still tries the same tactic on with you!

Thank goodness for the new house! Do you have to move far?

Alph.

Nope, it's not far (then again, Belgium is so small you never have far to go <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) - just 12 miles (20 km) from where I live now. But it does make a lot of difference re. traffic jams - my new house is located a LOT better than my present one. Where are you at in the UK?

I'm in the NorthEast of England - not far from Scotland really. I've never been so grateful to be so far from London as I have been these last couple of weeks.

We have the Scottish weather here but not the Whiskey! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

Oops not good !
I've been to Fife (Nook of Fife?) three years ago, is that close to where you live ?

Not very.

I would love to live in Scotland if I could, though.

I've been to Edinburgh a couple of times - what a great city. Wonderful pubs! And other stuff, of course. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

I hope that all UK members are calm and safe...

I'll be gone for a week's holiday with WH and D10... part of the grand finale of Plan A. WH is starting to get surly and spiteful, instead of just distanced and indifferent. I've got my relaxed and happy meds packed.

During our absence my lawyer/friend that is on the board of directors at the bank will put in her demand that WH and skunkypoo get seperated into different branches. She's got some leverage and the top boss will possibly be receptive.

"See you" all in August!

Now they've car bombed hotels in Egypt in Sharm-el-Sheikh. 75 people dead so far.
My sig line seems weird underneath this message.

Makes me so sad.

I feel the world's gone to hell at the moment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

LIT I wish you a happy holiday....glad you have your meds with you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Why don't you and DD bury WH in the sand? Harmless holiday fun <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


brownhair <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> the world is in a right state!

Yeah, and leave him there as the tide comes in...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

Haha you could give him big sand-breasts.
And take pictures of it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I saw the weirdest thing today.
As I was driving home from Brussels, it had been raining and all the cars were splashing water behind them. The sun came out and hit the water in the exact right angle - resulting in 2-3 ft rainbows behind each car ! It lasted for half a minute, then disappeared.
It made me smile. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Help! Where did everyone go?

I'm here BH but VERY BUSY !!!!!!!!!!!!

haha.. I bet you are!

It just seems I'm the only one bumping this thread these last few days...

indeed, but Yerp goes on holiday for all of July & August you know that! LOL ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yerp ?

Europe perhaps said in an American accent?

Hi Brownhair....sorry...still here but have kiddies on school holiday.

How long now until you move? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Aha.. Yerp... yes, I get it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I hope to move next week !
The flooring is being fitted as we speak.. that needs to dry.. then painting this weekend.. almost there ! Wew !

MAN ! I'v been on LOADS of conference calls this week ! That was with a bloke from Atlanta.

Theres a bit of a panic trying to get stuff in diaries before Europe goes on holiday so LOTS of calls.

In my experience it's funny how people suddenly want to "clean out their closets" just because they, or their business partners, are going on a holiday <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Things that otherwise might not be adressed for 2-3 months.

Next week!! That last week flew by <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How exciting for you. Bet you had fun choosing the flooring and colours for the walls!

Actually I choose the same sort of flooring and colours I choose for our new home just 2 years ago. I put a lot of time and effort in that then.. so it was easy now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Hey Brownhair!

If you know what you like, why change it?

You must be so excited - I am too, for you!

Alph.

Hey!

The IRA have formally ended their 'armed campaign'.

About bl**dy time, IMO. But, any move towards peace is good news, especially in the current climate.

Here's to peace, and to solving conflict by peaceful means.

Alph.

Of course they have. They have a devolved government and murdering terrorists sitting as MPs paid for from British taxes.

What more do they have to fight for? They have utterly won through violence.

I HATE this message.
What next an 'Al qu'a-ida council' represented in parliament too, with Osama Bin Laden as party leader ?

* shakes head *

We all got through the Spanish Inquisition.. that's when fanatics à la Al Qu'aida were GOVERNING our countries and torturing/executing those that weren't "catholic enough"... hopefully we'll soon see the day young people aren't brainwashed to become fanatics anymore.

I see it as more of a triumph for the people of NI, who can, after all, vote as they wish, especially as now they have less to be intimidated by.

The IRA had completely lost any support they used to have - the public relations disasters of the bank robbery, and the murder of Robert McCartney, Adams being snubbed in the US...

The people of NI, even those who previously supported armed Republicanism, have no patience for violence any more.

Also, most MPs who have been elected in NI are not, and have never been, terrorists.

The IRA is a spent force. Sinn Fein will become, more and more, a minority party. People want the stability that comes from the centre of politics, not the extreme.

Alph.

We have noticed its been very busy this month, escalating this week and next week is full of meetings already - perhaps we wont have an August slowdown this year <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> - alternatively might be our move from IT service to IT products.

I'm excited but afraid to express it around STBXRWH.. that's a bit weird.. I'll be glad to be by myself. With my dog and my cat, of course. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A dog and a cat - what more do you need?

I'm thinking about getting a dog myself - but my two cats won't be happy about that!

Alph.

Alph, my dog has been my best friend through this mess, really. Steadfast, loyal , patient, cheering. I truly love this dog. His name is Murphy and he is a blue merle border collie.

He's smarter than most people I know and loves me more than anyone on earth.

And my walking him became awesome prayer & meditation time when all was chaos.

Highly recommended.

Hey b0b!

Hear you had a mini tornado over in your neck of the woods!

Hope you've kept your roof on.

(I want a dog <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> )

Alph.

Yes I hear that in Sparkbrook the tornado caused literally hundreds of thousand of pounds worth of improvements ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

( its a GRIM part of Birmingham!)

I recall the famous Dudley Earthquake from 2002. It hit 5 on the richter scale.

Squid woke me up in tehnight and the house was shaking.

I got up and looked out the window to see the neighbours greenhouse collapse and feel everything move under my feet.

" feels like an earthquake " I said before climbing back into bed and sleep immediately !!!!

Squid sat up worriedly watching TV all night.

I slept like a baby !

I was just too tired to give a monkeys !

Hi Alphin,

Actually that's a nice story.

I had my cat for 10 years + when we got the dog. My cat didn't like it at ALL. She scares very easily and had been terrorised by the neighbour's cats that even followed her into the house through her catflap and ate her food.. So she wasn't too happy with the new rather wild intruding puppy.

For 2 years she avoided the dog by living in the upper floors of our house. Then we took the dog on a holiday while the cat remained "home alone" with FIL caring for her. Shortly after we returned from holidays, the dog ate something wrong and was rather sick and quiet for another week. And in that period my cat overcame her fear..

She now dares to pass right in front of the dog's nose, daring it to "catch me if you ca-an..." She's not exactly cuddling up to our dog but she gets braver every day. Not bad for a now 13-year old cat that normally scares easily!

Just thought I'd check in, what with living in the same timezone.

Won't have too much time to post with kids at home for the summer but hopefully will find some spare minutes.

2b

Hi 2B !!!

My kids are home too ! I hope the rain stops ! my kids are outdoor kids, they HATE being stuck inside !

This holiday is already transformed from last year, when D-day was 2 days after the kids broken up from school. That was hard stuff.

What you got planned to keep the kids amused this hol ?

We have Willy Wonka tomorrow with our friends and their kids, and then dinner at nandos together.

Hi 2B, where do you live ?

I live in Wiltshire.

Holiday plans are legoland for a day and day trips. We had a 2 week holiday at the beginning of July.

They also go to a couple of summer camps - drama etc.

2b

Hi All

Beautiful day here in Devon, hoping it going to last for a few weeks. Camping in Dorset for a week, then caravan in Newquay for a week.

FreeAll

FAA, I must just say every time i read your handle I sing that MAGNIFICENT song in my head 'burn baby burn' !

Another poster is called 'learning to fly' and I recall the similarly magnificent Foo Fighter's song 'learn to fly'.

It ALWAYS cheers me up ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I always wondered where people from Devon go on holiday !

Newquay Cornwall or Newquay wales ?

Hi bob

Newquay Cornwall for the surf, hoping to introduce DS4 to body boarding. He has done a very good job of introducing himself to the Playstation2 and the Monsters Inc game so far this holiday, that said, when the weather was good a few weeks ago he was outside on the waterslide, freezing and going blue with cold but still wouldn't come in.

FAA

I went to see Ash in cornwall last year, they were magnificent. We dont get many bands down here, no big venue and probably not enough people.

Many many many years ago I had the pleasure of seeing Queen live, Freddie Mercury was fantastic, he made the show, a total out and out performer. He had all 20'000 people at the show in the palm of his hand.

FAA

Apart from gastonbury, but it doesn't really count cos its a festival. And FWW has already said she doesn't fancy being in a tent in the mud. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

FAA

PS I must be going mad, I am answering my own posts

bOb

you going anywhere over the summer?

FAA

I NEVER saw Queen !!!! I was a fan in the 70's, then not really through hot space and thos eodd albums. Not again until the works, then they were too huge to get tickets for easily !

A real music regret that I never saw queen live.

I remember seeing a cornish band called Reef at my local hole a few year sback. They were pretty good !

I haven;t seen Ash for AGES, they were just boys when 1977 came out. I bet they're great live now.

I loved 'the girl from mars'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


No holiday for us this summer - MIL could die any day or last another six months. Squid doesn;t want to be away when that happens.

We have a holiday home in Wales that we will spend some time at in the next few weeks. If the weathers OK.

It was The Works tours in 1983/4 when I saw Queen. I was lucky enough that a mate knew the promoter. Also seen Springsteen on his Born in the US tour, saw Oasis at Knebworth but the beat of the bunch by some distance was Freddie and Queen.

Try and picture this...
Queen left the stage during Bohemium Rapsody (they didn't perform it live during this phase of their evolution). Freddie came back with a guitar on. Everyone in the audience was waiting for him to say or do something, and he said, "I hate playing this f***ing thing", another pause, "I only know one f***ing cord", then he started with the rhythm cord of Crazy little thing called love, the crowd went wild. It was truly amazing and awesome and I dont have sufficient words to describe it.

FAA

I just thought I'd pop in and say hi. I'm back from a week's vacation in Spain.

When I first glanced at the thread, I thought the Brits were carrying on about the Queen Mother. God bless her.

Any one here at the mo?

Could do with a little levelling on a situation.

2b

2b, I'm here now mate.

Hi brits & europhiles!

I go to the cold UK for my hols. We moved to Ibiza 18 months ago. I´m 5 weeks from D day. My WS of 35 years (we were children at the time) has moved in with my "friend" 200 yds away.

I´m writing this by the pool, looking out to sea...& it´s "scorchio". It´s a all a bit wasted sitting here alone with no one to play with..Oh well! I´m keeping strong...I need to. I´ve just returned from a week in Blighty seeing my adult kids and the plan A charm offensive starts now.

I notice a lot of music references. I´m listening to Buddy Holly, Dizzy Gillespie, Taj Mahal, Professor Longhair & ? & the Mysterionsat the moment. I don´t know what that says about me!

If any of you MBs are ever on the island, look me up & we can have a beer.

Time for a swim & another San Miguel!

Pip! Pip!

Ibiza

I'm sorry about your situation....what with the culture shock of moving abroad and your spouse turning into a WS you have been through a lot in a short time.

I don't know your story but I will search your posts. I probably can't offer any useful advice to you but you are in great supportive hands on this site.

The further I get away from last summer when I was a WS the more I see how vile infidelity is. I have learnt huge lessons from this....I hope your WS returns to you...Plan A can work <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

San Mig by the pool sounds wonderful Ibiza! The UK wasn't so cold these last couple of days you know! Well in my bit of the UK it was OK. You must have come over at the wrong time, we can have "Scorchio" too you know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Are U ok 2B ?