Gadz, 2k me a while 2 remember my own password. Has it really been that long? ...no.

Anyway, that's the news from Lake Woebegone.

My W asked me if I was "busy" this morning, while I was in the 'throom carvin' a twister... ...so I knew something was up.

Anyway, I went 2 see what, and she said that RM just told her he's getting married. So, my first thought is, who contacted who? and why? And my next thought was who 2? xMrs Meat? The GF?

...and my third thought was... ...WHY? Why would someone like that, who never learned jack cheese from their own experience breaking up their own family, get married again?? 2 be happy? Well, not my problem, but I do feel sorry for the fiance.

So. She asked him 2 sign a petition 2 save a local museum. She's gotten dozens of signa2res from others in their field, not all of them very local at all, so if it wasn't that he's RM, it wouldn't have been unusual for her 2 seek his signa2re. But since it is RM, it is nothing but a lame excuse 2 try 2 keep the "friendship" alive.

She cried a lot, and most of what she said is positive, but there were things in what she said that made it clear that the attachment is still strong on her end, at least, and it still isn't clear whether she'd be willing 2 "do whatever it takes" 2 save our marriage... ...or if I care at this point one way or the other.

Don't get me wrong, I'm willing. And I believe it's "right" for me 2 remain willing, so long as she shows a willingness as well. I'm just really tired of all this, and I would frankly be as content 2 pay the guy the $5K and get the ball rolling 2ward a DV as I'd be hunkering down, FINALLY, and working 2ward marital recovery.

At least she told me this time.

-ol' 2long

She cried a lot,

what did she cry about....


ARK

Sounds good to me. Once he is MARRIED, maybe your wife will get more involved in her marriage.

{{2long}} It sucks to see your S cry over someone else doesn't it?

2L,

I have to say that I'm as puzzled as I ever have been about how your wife's mind works.

But yes......it's huge that she came to you and told you this. Maybe it's a good opening to continue to excavate her thinking processes in regards to her affair and her current and future relationship with RM.

How wild to think HE's getting married. What could marriage possibly mean to him? Does your wife know his GF?

I sure hope you don't have to report that you've both been invited to the wedding!!!!

2long,

""while I was in the 'throom carvin' a twister...""

OH MY GOD!! ROTFLMAO!! Way too much info, dude...but very funny.

""but I do feel sorry for the fiance.""

Ask Melody Lane if exposure in this case would be justified.

I think so.

""or if I care at this point one way or the other.""

Down deep in your heart, which is it? It's gotta be one way more than the other, right? When you discover which way, you should pursue it with vigor!!

Don't mean to be telling an old time MBer what to do.

It is such a bummer that the A, and all the crap, keeps coming back to slap us around long after it's over.

k

Maybe this will be it, 2L . . . damn I'd love to hope so.

{{{2Long}}}


slh

It's good for you that he is getting married - I am pretty sure he won't want any contact after the way his life came apart the first time around.

As far as your W crying - I don't even pretend to understand.

I would guess it is not fun to be there when it happens though, and I wonder how you are - because you have been quiet for a long time about your feelings. Or, you have wondered what they actually are, which is the same thing.

I agree that if you can identify your feelings, it will help you know where you are, and where to go next.

Sent mail 2ple of times, but no reply (Q account) You may have problems with it again?

Let me (us) know how the trip went. Been wondering.

SS

'bout "the loss of her good friends", the "loss of the fantasy"... ..."I know it's good that he's found someone he can be happy with, but it hurts when someone you've loved moves on like that"...

That kind of thing.

-ol' 2long

Maybe.

She makes noises, but I've heard noises for years now. I'll believe it when I see it.

-ol' 2long

It used 2. Mostly, it just looked awfully S2PID 2 me this morning, though.

Still, I care that she's hurting. Kind of like a good friend would.

-ol' 2long

CSue:

"it's huge that she came to you and told you this. Maybe it's a good opening to continue to excavate her thinking processes in regards to her affair and her current and future relationship with RM."

I agree that it's huge. We talked about "conflict avoidance" and my invention of the term CACA, for "Conflict Avoiders of CA". She mentioned that she called me on her way 2 OOSP last month when I was at the Burbank MB luncheon, but only told her "I'm with some friends who asked me 2 come up". I said, yeah, that might have felt like CA at the time, but I didn't want anything 2 detract from her trip with HF... ...after all, they went 2 RM's hometown on the trip, but apparently didn't see him while there. Some restraint, then. Just not the "final restraint" that I need - 2 "forsake all others" like she promised 30 years ago she'd do. So, I think she realizes that RM's trying 2 sever their relationship now, but she'd still like 2 be friends or colleagues. I need her 2 WANT NC, because it's good for her.

"How wild to think HE's getting married. What could marriage possibly mean to him? Does your wife know his GF?"

No, she doesn't know the GF, so far as I know.

"I sure hope you don't have to report that you've both been invited to the wedding!!!"

EWWWWwww! I certainly haven't been. I don't think she has, either. Ewww.

-ol' 2long

krusht:

Sorry about the graphics. But it was a pretty weird experience. I'm pretty "regular" in that regard, so she knew I was "busy" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

"""but I do feel sorry for the fiance.""

Ask Melody Lane if exposure in this case would be justified.

I think so."

Well, maybe, but in the off chance that exposure were 2 disrup their wedding plans and the A 2k off again... ...well, I'm done with this drama entirely. Don't care, though I am baffled why RM would want 2 be M'd (apparently still fighting for custody of his sons), and I'm saddened that anyone would want 2 be M'd 2 him. The GF must either be naive or s2pid. Possibly both.

""or if I care at this point one way or the other.""

Down deep in your heart, which is it? It's gotta be one way more than the other, right? When you discover which way, you should pursue it with vigor!!"

Yeah, I gotta explore that.

-ol' 2long

SS:

"I would guess it is not fun to be there when it happens though, and I wonder how you are - because you have been quiet for a long time about your feelings. Or, you have wondered what they actually are, which is the same thing."

Mostly I'm just numb. Even before she told me the news this am, I found myself wondering over the weekend "why didn't I go 2 Oregon instead?" I could have been around like-minded deep-sky gooves the whole time. It was fun when I went up 2 years ago. I had thought about going this time. Why didn't I?

"I agree that if you can identify your feelings, it will help you know where you are, and where to go next."

Responsibility. There. That's what I've been feeling mostly of late. I enjoy when I believe I'm doing things right. Even if it doesn't seem sensible after all this time. Heck, she said again 2 me this morning that she still partly blames ME for her affair, because I didn't meet her needs (and her 2 IC's allegedly concurred with her thinking) , and that she always hoped that I'd just find someone 2 make me happy... ...which launched me in2 a lambast of the "myth" that affairs happen because of unmet needs, or that our spouse is responsible for making us happy. I've ac2ally pondered what it might be like "finding someone else" for several months now - because I know a couple of "someone elses". At least one of those would likely be "interested." But you know? The thought of doing that 2 "someone else" bothers me even more than cheating on my W bothers me - and that's plenty. Hence, I'm baffled that RM would want 2 get M'd again (It makes sense, though, when I remember what a s2pid, selfish 2rd he truly must be).

"Sent mail 2ple of times, but no reply (Q account) You may have problems with it again?"

I haven't checked it in a while, sorry. Been pretty quiet over on iloveulovedotcom, 2.

"Let me (us) know how the trip went. Been wondering."

In spite of this crap this morning... ...STILL... ...and my comments above, I had a pretty decent time. I could do that anywhere, though. ...I coulda stopped by yes2rday. We had lunch just up the hill from you. Wish I had.

-ol' 2long

Over all, though...

I did tell her (again), that I appreciated the difficulty she had in telling me anything this am. She's afraid I'll just get angry and leave. Which I've done. ...and which I reserve the right 2 do again if and when I feel like it... (she can preclude this at any time by forsaking RM for life).

But I won't leave this time. We're going 2 work this out one way or the other. I'm sick of the drama. Real or imagined.

-ol' 2long

Some of the comments she made would really bite.

I don't know how you could take it and not come un-glued.

Maybe it's the quality of the glue?

In spite of this crap this morning... ...STILL... ...and my comments above, I had a pretty decent time. I could do that anywhere, though. ...I coulda stopped by yes2rday. We had lunch just up the hill from you. Wish I had.

It's hard when you are with someone. Not too sure how she would feel meeting some one from MB.

Next time call me and tell me where you are so I can just walk in. Then I'll stare, and walk up and say "2long? 2longs W? Is that you guys? I can't believe I would run into you here, this far from home. How is S? How's the house coming?

Then I'll just walk away and let you explain who I am after I leave. It would be fun. Kinda.

There is a lot I could say, but you already know it. I'll let it be.

Did you get mad, or did you just soak it up?

Hope the boots feel good?

SS

SS:

That's a good idea. It'd be kind of fun. I'll try that if I ever head that way again. Don't ac2ally know if I will now. I certainly don't "need 2", and now at least I know why I wasn't feeling all that positive while I was there.

I didn't get mad at all, this time. I have 2 be careful how I react. She probably reads all kinds of things in2 my expression that aren't there anyway. So, I have 2 show I can respond rather than react. But though that isn't as hard 2 do as it used 2 be, it's not hard precisely because the emotional attachment is fading, I think. I've got so much less of my emotional well-being invested in this M than I ever thought would have been possible, say, a year ago. So, I have 2 remain vigilant even now, maybe especially now, in case she really pulls her head out of her nether regions for good this time.

Boots feel great. I used them over the weekend.

-ol' 2long

Yes, it would have been really tough. I almost said "glad it was you, not me."

That is not really true. I am sorry it was you, but I am still glad it wasn't me.

Work is good?

SS

Work is good, though there are rumors of massive layoffs coming up. Hm...

-ol' 2long

I don't know enough about it to know what the money situation is.

I would guess you don't like internal politics so you may not talk much about it either.

Whatever happens, I hope it goes well for you.

SS

I think this fading of emotional attachment is a good thing 2long. As we know, (or are told) emotional attachment and love are not the same thing. With out all the reactivity which comes from emotional attachment, good and productive communication can happen.

This is what I am learning anyway.

And since I have no one to test it out on, I will guage your progress and marital recovery in regards to the theory that attachment ain't a good thing in matters of the heart. kay? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

weaver:

Good point. I agree.

Maybe the "numbness" I described above should be replaced, or supplemented, with "relief."

It might sound odd, but the pain I feel for the fiancee is worse than any pain I'm feeling right now myself. I feel pain, or maybe it's pity, for my W, 2. What a sad way 2 live! And she doesn't HAVE 2 be this way!

-ol' 2long

This is odd, and has nothing 2 do with anything (I hope), but as I was leaving the house this morning, I narrowly avoided something like FOUR accidents within about 30 seconds of each other.

First was as I was coming around a curve, someone made a left 2rn pretty late in front of me (I was driving my old VW truck, in which, in the words of Bill Cosby "if you have a head-on collision with a dog, you lose"). Half a block later, the light 2rned yellow. Not enough room 2 stop, and I would have been through the intersection before the light changed 2 red, so I went. Some guy 2rning left must have thought I would stop, so he went in front of me. I had enough room, so I just started applying the brake. The guy after him figured he should go 2, so he gunned it - again, with room since I was slowing down for the first 2wit. Then the guy after HIM must have figured that the light had changed 2 red because of the speed at which the first 2 2wits pealed out (2 avoid me hitting them), and he couldn't see me until they'd gotten out of the way, so he was gunning it just as I came in2 the intersection.

Hit the brakes HARD, went in2 a short 4-wheel drift (no ABS in 1960, and single master cylinder!), 2 come 2 a stop close enough 2 the other guy 2 shake my head at him effectively before proceeding.

There must have been a release of s2pid gas this morning, I'm thinking.

-ol' 2long

I shake for hours after - how are you?

SS

Same as with the R stuff. Numb.

Can't get 2 flustered by stuff in LA, or you'd never level off!

-ol' 2long

Must be why I live here -

Actually, I used to like it - when we would visit, I would shake my fist and laugh, "ha, ha, ha, ha, take that !!!"

I guess I got older, or something.

Sorry you had that many all this morning. I would probably still there beating my heart telling it to start up again.

SS

BTW,
I can drive the old stuff better. ABS always makes the car do stuff I am not ready for. Maybe I drove too much before they invented it.

Maybe tests would show other wise, but I think you can get around a race course much faster without it.

SS

And like Bugatti once said about the complaints about the brakes on his cars...

"We build them 2 go, not 2 stop!"

-ol' 2long

How many people remember him?

Actually, my neighbor had one of those once.
It was an HO scale race car and we would build tracks at Christmas and he always won. I never did know if it was the car, or his skill, but it seemed to stick to the track like - well, like a race car.

SS

"I know it's good that he's found someone he can be happy with, but it hurts when someone you've loved moves on like that"...

And ...the flip side to that would be "If he moves on and gets married that means that I no longer can hook up with him"? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Now that would absolutely SLAY me... It's as if she still wants him in the wings for HERSELF.

How do you keep from asking the obvious question of..."And this is YOUR business because......"?


committed

comm:

You've got it. That's what she wants, I think.

I've said before "the only thing you owe one another is silence."

I'm not impressed with her decision-making skills.

-ol' 2long

I was going to ask if you were alone or with somebody tonight..... but perhaps I should just say I hope you are with someone. By mutual choice.

See you tomorrow. Hope you sleep well.

SS

2,

I think it's a good thing that he's getting married.

I'm not mystified as to why he would. Usually, it's the GF who pushes for it, and he, I guess, just thought "why not?" Of course, I don't know him.

Have you ever thought that maybe he's a player - that maybe your W wasn't the only A he was in. Maybe this GF was in the picture even before.

I think her reaction fits the pattern. She stil has an attachment to him. But, you knew that already.

I don't think you have any need to contact his GF, unless he was carrying on with your W while in a supposedly exclusive relationship with the GF.

It certainly would be nice of my W's OM took an interest in any other woman (ideally an unmarried one).

Asside from all that. It's good to "see" 'ya.

-AD

OK <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> cynical voice on:

well .... I thought your W was of the opinion that marriage = prostitution for women

perhaps she was crying because she feels badly for her sister/woman now about to enter the world's oldest profession .... ?

2Long ... her values are so weirdly twisted ... she speaks out of both sides of her mouth ... know what I mean?

I thought she professed to hate the institution of marriage... Know what I think??? I think RM and your W probably had discussions where they agreed that marriage it's self is flawed and a dumb thing to enter into .... and NOW your W is sad mostly because RM did not want to divorce his first wife to marry her !!!!

This is sour grapes ....

YIKES !

This sounds like pretty good news - and I understand your caring that she's hurting. I just hope you didn't comfort her when she was crying.

A song for the occasion:

Rat Meat's getting married in the morning.
Ding dong the bells are gonna chime.
La la la la-la (don't remember the words)
La la la la-la
Just get him to the church on time!

Sorry, it's almost 4 am I haven't slept much.
Lordy, help me at work tomorrow. :-)

Rat meat is getting married...


So what?! How does that change anything? Do you truly believe that this will change anything about the A? It's still very clear where her heart lies. More than likely they will continue.

You will always be 2nd fiddle.

Some very interesting info for you here, 2Long...

How would she feel if 2Long "moved on"?


hcii

Did she happen to tell you how she found out about RM's plan to wed? Was it from their mutual friend or from RM himself thus breaking NC? But I guess you aren't holding her to NC.

Knowing the lack of honoring vows, what would stop them from continuing their 'friendship'? He DV'd presumably because of the A...your wife remained married. Maybe it is like 'Sarie' who had full intentions of staying married whilst continuing her A after her OM got a live-in GF (whom he may have married...but I don't recall). Wouldn't that be in your W's ideal world.

The tears would have been somewhere between annoying and pathetic. What does all that tell you about what is really important to her? I know you love your WW and thus can have compassion for her as she mourns her OM. I hope this can be the closure she needs and that she will go through a final withdrawal and that real recovery can begin.

AD:

"Have you ever thought that maybe he's a player - that maybe your W wasn't the only A he was in. Maybe this GF was in the picture even before."

Well, whether he's had other As or no, I've always considered him a player, and I've told my W that. The GF "showed up" in the pic2re, so far as I know, about 3 years ago. Yep. My W even told me that he was concerned that "I have a chance 2 date, but I would feel like I was cheating on YOU if I did." This, while he was still M'd 2 Mrs Meat. I pointed out the absurdity of the whole thought.


-ol' 2long

Pep:

"OK <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> cynical voice on:"

Unders2d!

"well .... I thought your W was of the opinion that marriage = prostitution for women"

She was, but I don't think she is anymore. Remember what she said a month or so ago? That she realized that HF's suggestion 'you're being accused, you might as well do the deed' was a recommendation that she be spiteful? And that the whole A started as a spiteful reaction 2 her perception that I didn't care about her? At least she hasn't said much about the prosti2tion model in a long time.

"Know what I think??? I think RM and your W probably had discussions where they agreed that marriage it's self is flawed and a dumb thing to enter into .... and NOW your W is sad mostly because RM did not want to divorce his first wife to marry her !!!!"

I know for a fact that they had such discussions. Which is why I pointed out the irony of her news about him getting remarried. She's said, on a 2ple occaisions though, that he was expecting my W 2 come live with him. First time I'm aware of was when Mrs Meat threw him out during the cold of December 2002, and my W had given him $1K for a down on an apartment. I didn't hear this for more than another year, so she'd already pissed him off by not coming 2 live with him.

...she essentially confirmed, in so many words, that one of his reasons for remarrying is 2 get custody of his 2 sons from xMrs Meat. Poor GF.

-ol' 2long

to4t:

"This sounds like pretty good news - and I understand your caring that she's hurting. I just hope you didn't comfort her when she was crying."

Well, I do agree that it's probably good news, but the means only barely justifies the end. Assuming this really IS the end, that is.

No, I didn't comfort her when she cried again last night. I sure wanted 2. But I remember my own his2ry of trying 2 do that... ...and the current date!

We talked some more last night, and one thing she said (that she's said before, but I've comforted her when she's said it) was: "You think I'm a horrible and disgusting person." 2 which I replied, this time: "No. I think your R with RM is horrible and disgusting, but you're not. You just made poor choices."

-ol' 2long

ba109:

"So what?! How does that change anything? Do you truly believe that this will change anything about the A? It's still very clear where her heart lies. More than likely they will continue."

I think much like this these days. After all, it's been about 15 years now. I've heard noises about "doing the right thing" before. I even heard her tell me she told HF that "I promised 2long I wouldn't have any contact". That was about a month ago. And maybe there's only been the one contact - the "news" - or maybe there's been 27589327 emails and phone calls. Doesn't matter 2 me which.

I pointed out 2 her again last night - when she appeared baffled that I couldn't be glad that RM is now happy and has moved on - that M means nothing 2 him. He cheated on his first W with her. Why wouldn't he cheat on this one when the organic love wears off?

"You will always be 2nd fiddle."

Not if I quit the freakin' orchestra!

-ol' 2long <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey hcii!

I'm pretty sure she'd be torn up about it. It is something I'm encouraging her 2 think long and hard about.

-ol' 2long

Trix:

"Did she happen to tell you how she found out about RM's plan to wed? Was it from their mutual friend or from RM himself thus breaking NC?"

She didn't tell me. Nor did she tell me what was ac2ally said (in detail). It was either via email or phone, though. That I know for certain.

"But I guess you aren't holding her to NC."

Not much point in doing that at this stage. If she ever gets there, really, she'll be pretty obvious. Heck, she'll be proud. That she's showed no signs of that, even after her epiphany a 2ple months ago about our M (particularly my reminding her what she said at our first MC session 3.5 years ago - "lets see where we are by our 30th anniversary and maybe decide 2 renew our vows then"). So I know she's not gone NC on RM, even when we were getting along "pretty well." I've been at this so long now that I don't really need 2 snoop, unless I felt like I have 2 have details (and she could spin those anyway, so what's the point?). I can tell things have never been quite right. Maybe they never will be. ...but 30 years is coming right up (December 27th). I'm going 2 keep reminding her of her "plan" as the date approaches. I want a bright fu2re for her. But I want a bright one for me and our family, 2. ...there's light at the end of the tunnel.

"Knowing the lack of honoring vows, what would stop them from continuing their 'friendship'? He DV'd presumably because of the A...your wife remained married. Maybe it is like 'Sarah' who had full intentions of staying married whilst continuing her A after her OM got a live-in GF (whom he may have married...but I don't recall). Wouldn't that be in your W's ideal world."

I agree with this line of thinking. It has been their MO for a very long time. ...which is why I don't put much stock in him getting M'd again. The Fool! But I have the benefit of something that Sarie's BH has never had - D-day! I KNOW why our M was mediocre all these years. I also know what it COULD be like, if we want it 2 be.

"The tears would have been somewhere between annoying and pathetic."

That sums it up prettty well.

"I hope this can be the closure she needs and that she will go through a final withdrawal and that real recovery can begin."

Me 2.

-ol' 2long

Amen! I'm glad you took my comment in the sense that was intended. Whether RM is getting married or not has no bearing on your WW's feelings for him. His marriage will more than likely provide an 'inconvenience' for her is all.

Ah, so right...Sarie's poor BH was left clueless...in the dark so she could carry on as she had been for 10 yrs.

Trix:

Darn right. Sarie's behavior (I hope she's lurking) is EVIL.

And Sarie, I HAVE told my W about the RM moniker. She doesn't like it much. I don't like him much either.

-ol' 2long

2Long -

What about you, me and AD going to the Gulf coast and building a new town? A few weeks ago you said you thought we could build a town if we put our minds to it. Since then, a need has arisen.

I think we could start in N.O. and work our way eastward.

Georgia

2long,

I just read your post in the private thread on ILUL. So I came over here, first time in weeks, to see for myself.

Not surprised, but very, very sorry to hear contact continues.

I am in a similar place, as you know. Last month I discovered continued attempts by W to contact OM and new A info. I didn’t think it could possibly be any worse than what I already knew, but it is. This new info is one of the reasons I left MB. Mine is not an MB or missing EN solvable problem after all – not by a long shot. I am embarrassed to be taking up space on MB.

I feel for you. I have been through a similar situation with W crying over loss of OM. The night W found out OM confessed (partially) to his BW, repudiated her, and blamed W for the entire A, she cried and cried. I tried to comfort her without lending any credence to her A or her justifications. But it was so hard to hear the love of my life, the woman who promised before God, family, friends and community to love and protect me, crying in front of me because her 10 year A partner didn’t love her after all. I thought I was going to die. I often think something inside me actually did die that night. I feel different since that night. But, I cannot quite put my finger on it.

I will continue to pray for you, 2long. And for your W. And for a lot more than just a good M for you.


PS: Building towns? I thought we were going to become soldiers of fortune in Central America. You know, long twirly moustaches, the beach, the senoritas and the margaritas in Belize.

Appy:

"I often think something inside me actually did die that night. I feel different since that night. But, I cannot quite put my finger on it."

I know what it is:

Death of innocence (really, blind trust)

Emotional attachment (emosional fusion, as Schnarch calls it)

When I think about what it is that died regarding my M, once again I feel more relief than pain. I'm saddened at the loss of that lofty, fantasy-life perspective on things, but I'm glad that I'm not so easily fooled any longer. I'm more able 2 be a companion than I ever was before.

Maybe my W can appreciate that someday. She can't now.

-ol' 2long

FGG:

We can build a new town, alright. But we'd better bring along a whole bunch of dirt before we lay the foundations!

like... who in their right mind would build a city below sea level? On a delta, next 2 the ocean??? (with apologies 2 the Dutch!).

-ol' 2long

2Long

I wondering if your wife will be use this info and turn it around on you that you kept them the star cross lovers apart
withyou fighting for your marriage.

Now that you have it from the RM mouth that the marriage is only for a custody battle, and that is the only reason, your wife (in my opion) has just got the green light to go on with their relationship via long distance or evem closer.

Like mention before he did not respect his vows when he married his 1st wife and didn't respect the marriage vows of his friend (your wife) why would he with a marriage that is only forming to gain custody of his kids.


All I can say is DANGER DANGER WILL (2LONG) ROBINSON

Maybe you are correct, as ususal - don't let it go to your head, my friend.

But I wanted to be so much more than just her companion. Makes me think of male prostitutes.

I wanted to be her husband, friend and lover. She only accepted fair weather companion.

OM and W told each other their Ms were just business arraignments. Actual quote. I know, more WS rationalizations. But after 10 years of the LTA I think it has become reality for her.

Both our Ws have so many deep and serious issues that ENs have nothing to do with. I am at a loss where to start re-re-re-recovery. So, like you I am detaching. It’s now fast becoming a business arraignment for me too.

So sad. It did not have to be this way. It could have been glorious.

swan's song:

It may be true that my W perceives my observations about this news as a green light 2 continue their relationship long distance.

But really, that's what she's done at every 2rn in the last 15 years, particularly even during the last 3.5+ years I've been aware of the A.

So, nothing's changed... ...except I changed in2 my asbestos space suit.

She's going 2 have 2 pull her head out on her own, if she ever does. Now would be a good time, but I'm planning for whatever.

-ol' 2long

Appy:

FF is calling you...

(will you answer 2....?)

-ol' 2long

2long, you sound incredibly strong and stoic.

Appy, thinking of you...

Sorry 2Long,

My original post vanished, but what I ment was I think she percieves the info that he is only getting married again, because of the kids as I green light from him to continue her wishful thinking of a life with him.

I get the feeling from what you posted that she knows that she is on the last mile with you, and that you will not be there for the next round of RM's contact

I'm pretty sure I don't like the way I'm feeling right now.

Like:

*How much contact is still going on? ...2 be determined, if it is at all, without a really strong desire on my part 2 ac2ally know the answer. It's going on because she told me about the M plans. But that's all. She never even said how she was told, though she did say it was in response 2 her asking for his signa2re on a petition.

*When, if ever, is she going 2 confide in me about things close 2 her? ...and again, I'm not sure just how much I want this even. Not that I don't want her 2 be close, but I want her 2 want 2 be close, not just because she perceives that I need a show of intimacy (which could be insincere) from her.

*Am I "safe" for her 2 open up 2? ...also, not sure I'm very concerned about this now. Not that I don't think it's important, I do. For 2long, I've tried self-improvement plan A stuff 2 impress her (in spite of knowing that's not what it's necessarily for). But though I have flaws, I'm not a bad, or even moderately neglectful H. It feels like "if she can't see it, it's not MY fault. It's her inability 2 recommit, her inability 2 go NC and get on with withdrawal, that's keeping her from recommitting.

*It was her own suggestion, 3.5 years ago, 2 see where we are by our 30th and decide whether 2 renew our vows at that point. When I reminded her of that last month, she said she still believes we'll need 2 do that. But has she made any comments about that, counseling, or any other plan-related thing since the M news 2 days ago? Nope. The clock is ticking, 2. 30th is less than 4 months away, and there's a heck of a lot that *I* feel needs 2 be accomplished before then.

So, I'm not feeling all that great about stuff right now. She's "nice" again, but nothing has fundamentally changed. Still no ILYs. She's a bit less of a CAer, but that's pretty much it.

-ol' 2long

2,

I'm reading. Nothing much to say.

-AD

2long,

Speculation is a crippling waste of time.

Get on with the business of "acting as if". "Acting as if" things are as you would have them be, and maybe by your 30th...they will be. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I should add, that by speculation I mean trying to figure out what is going on with her, and what she thinks of OM now, or if contact continues, and so on and so forth.

And also about the no ILY's, or what she said about the 30th, or if she feels safe opening up to you, and so on and so forth.

Simply make yourself safe, be a loving beacon "acting as if" you already have the perfect marriage without trying to gauge where she is right now.

Ok...here's my take.

I think 2long my friend, she is in withdrawal again. The contact was the "fix" and she got a serious high removed when she found out ratmeat (scum bucket) is saying I do to somebody else.

Again, it's death of a fantasy or something like that.

Glean this if you can from my life...my xh is like a rat meat. HE had a gf at end of our marriage...and a second gf to boot! When I was finally done w/him, he couldn't be alone. Had 2 have somebody. I blew the roof off with exposure to everybody. One gf, whom I affectionately call monkeyho, bolted when she discovered our marriage did not immediately end in divorce and when I exposed to her family...even accidentally phoned her grandmother and did it...that she didn't want a part of it. I told everybody who knew her back in my hometown. Seems that was what it took. And only one willing enough to stick around was the stuupit golddigger he's presently married to now. As our divorce neared ending, his ow wound up pregnant and it would look somewhat good for a custody fight (as it is always looming) if he were settled or perceived to be settled.

My xh married ow almost instantly after the D papers signed. But he continued contact with monkeyho (somewhat like the way your W and RM are) during the first year of their affair marriage. He has cheated repeatedly on his present "wife" (matter of only legality and semantics imho)...

RM will NOT be faithful. Maybe the gf is preggers? Maybe it's legal and he's worried about the D from his W? Either way, your W should NOT see this as a good thing. She is hearing the words coming from a guy who could not be honest if asked what color the sky is...He's saying most likely whatever he can to keep your W on the back burner so he can have his cake eaten when he wants it...even if remarried.

Your W is mourning the loss of the perceived relationship. He may have said some fantasy talk to her about "a future" or a marriage or whatnot. She took the bait hook line and sinker. It is somewhat good she's opened up to you about it though. See the little good in it ok?

But it does mean that there is still attachment there. You gotta do whatis right for you. I'd install keystroke monitoring on computers or see how much exactly contact they do have. I mean, she KNOWS that contact is wrong. She knows you've had an agreement about it right? If so, she did it AFTER the fact and then telling you. Seems she went seeking RM and needed an affair "fix"...she caught him and they talked...and nobody knows for how long..and he opened up and told her he was getting married. But fact she's mourning the affair is sad...she's still attached. I'd do some digging.

This news and the revealing of it to you may either be signaling 2 things...and you should take careful notice of the sitch swinging in either direction...1)she is mourning loss of relationship...which could aid in healing of your M or 2)could cause her to think she must "act now" or loose the love of her life and the A could resume as she reacts desperately to the news of the M and that their A is back on and that's bad.

I see one of 2 things above being likely outcome. Listen well. Do as Orchid says and keep plan B in your hip pocket my friend.

Can Ijoin you guys in S. America? I love margaritas. I am a girl, thus no mustache...I hope never that is...lmao...and have read salty piece of land by jimmy buffet...great book for living out a life in your head about becoming an expatriat! lamo!

Just keep your eyes and spider senses sharp.

I am a late commer to this thread. Great news ... but it doesn't change her or the course that you have set many moons ago.

-rh-

Yeah...

Weaver, you're right. I know this stuff. Just getting really tired of it. I can do it, though. It must be in my bones 2 do it. Comes na2rally, most of the time.

Jpeachy:

This is why it's so hurtful right now. Withdrawal is starting over again. I wouldn't be surprised if RM knocked his GF up and that's why he's getting M'd. But I don't know that. I did here my W say that part of the reason is 2 get custody of his sons. Some motivator, eh? Some saint, 2, huh?

rh:

While any kind of change might be the spark 2 get my W thinking, I ac2ally didn't receive this news as good news at all. Remember, he cheated on his first wife 2 have an A with my W. Now he's telling my W he's getting M'd. Why tell her? ...unless it's 2 reassure her that nothing changes between them. It's only a "marriage" after all.

-ol' 2long

2long, how old did you say these two are?

Sorry, not very respectful. But they come across like newly-minted cynical 20-year-olds.

GC

2long, doesn't it just blow you away that your W talks to you about RM like it's a normal relationship? I feel as indifferent as you these days and wonder what impact if any his impending marriage will have. In my case I constantly remind W that OM wouldn't come to her funeral if it was cloudy out. Doesn't seem to matter as this "spiritual connection" is bigger than both of us. She asked me the other night, "what if he was gay, then would it be OK?"

I also hurt when W hurts but also feel sorry for how pathetic she has become. Just like the petition thing, my W used a dying cancer patient as an excuse to renew contact. You know that I recently told OM that "I held my W while we made sure she wasn't pregnant with his child". Since she renewed contact after that I asked how did that conversation go. She replied; "I told him if I had to have an abortion I would have certainly had him accompany me." I asked if I was supposed to stay home and watch our legitimate children while she took care of this.

I'm with you in just sitting back and waiting to see if she is willing to do some work. Wednesday is 20th and I can't even muster the energy to buy a card. Take care of you and I do hope that your W comes back before it's 2 late.

S2range, I thought I'd posted something earlier, but it's not here...

gc: My W is 2rning 51 next month. So, RM will be 40 in Dec. But they do behave like s2pid kids.

WOE: I've been tempted again 2 send RM an email, but I'd be pretty nasty if I did, and I'm not normally nasty. I'm usually indifferent 2 RM and his sitch, but since he won't go away, I still find myself wishing that an asteroid would smack in2 his house while he's home. Nothing big enough 2 cause a global extinction event, mind you. Just large enough 2 leave a big enough hole in the ground that you and I can enjoy buying tickets and taking our families 2 stand on the rim some weekend and look down several hundred meters to the crater floor...

But who knows? Maybe there's a 0.0000000000000004% chance that they should be 2gether? I wouldn't want 2 mess that up, if she decides 2 explore that. But whatever she decides, she should do so soon.

"She asked me the other night, "what if he was gay, then would it be OK?""

This is hilarious, because my W has said similar stuff. Like "What if *I'm* gay? Would you consider my friendship with HF 2 be an A?" She asked me that at one of our MC sessions over 3 years ago. 2 which I replied "You're not gay." And the MC nodded. ...still, it was all a waste of time then.

Tired.

-ol' 2long

I wonder that your W may not see how unethical it is for RM to marry his GF mainly for a better chance at obtaining child custody. I wonder if he was he saying that for your wife's benefit to help her feel better about his getting married again?

Either way, I doubt that he takes any of his vows seriously and that this marriage will effect his behavior very much.

Of course, he may have had an epiphany and has let her know that he is marrying his GF and wants to be exclusive with her, and do the 'right' thing. Thus causing your wife's emotional reaction...tears.

It is all conjecture...we don't know his motivation in telling your wife about his pending marriage. It could be to finally end it with your wife or put them back on equal married footing. Was he disappointed that she not DV you for him?

So much we don't know about the dynamics of their A and how much or how little contact they had been having. Maybe it has all been one sided for a while now...your W's side...her fantasy... on the side.

Trix:

You're right. We don't know jack, really. And I could guess forever if I wanted 2, but I'm so sick of the drama that I think I'd rather not.

Hence my remark 2 her this morning (oh, that must have been in the post that didn't post). She said something about how hard it is 2 get her own needs met while trying 2 meet everyone else's. And I replied "I try 2 only worry about the things I can control, and don't try 2 affect anything or anyone that I have no control over."

But that's old news. I honestly don't think she'll get it anytime soon.

-ol' 2long

WOE and 2long, I don't know quite what to say. You both deserve so much better than this.

Normally, I'm so against divorce ... but in these cases ... what would it take to shake them up? And who cares anymore if they are shaken up?



It's all about her, innit? Did you reassure her that she's not meeting your needs at all?

Whose needs does she imagine she's fulfilling? Is she usually locked in this much weary self-pity?

2long,

How are you today?

I used to spend a lot of time rummaging around in the MB archives. There are many useful threads still hanging out back there. I was always finding dead threads that still spoke directly to me.

I remember reading many threads on continued contact affecting recovery. Here’s one that resonated with me in particular:

The Reality of Continued Contact

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1


At the time I thought, “Yeah right, I just hope we even get this far.” Now I am there and I feel very much like those old posters. I wonder what happened to them, too.

2, I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. The weekend trip to the crater is priceless. Some of this stuff is 2 funny for my W to be missing it. Even she could laugh at the absurdity of her conduct when presented in this context. Coincidentally, her OM is 11 years her junior. Some day the tables will turn and we'll be holding trump.