Married 24 yrs with 2 sons 19 & 23. My H seems to have replaced his family with others. He said anyone that will hear the word of God is his family. He is obsessed with one family in particular. The parents are dysfunctional, not taking care of the children,feeding thoughts to the children that society (there friends etc...)does not like them because they are bi-racial. They have exteme complexes and can't hardly function at school. The 10 yr olds girl supposedly has tried to commit suicide. The 16 yr sister has a live-in boyfriend.

My husband was asked to step down from his sunday school class as a teacher after 15 yrs. The church was uncomfortable with his behavior. He now resents the church and says that his martial arts school can be his new family and church. He takes these children (the one family in particular)back and forth. He feeds them dinner every night after class ( 2 nights a week). He also goes to their birthday parties and visits with the parents. I think this is a little over the top. He eats happy meals for lunch each day and saves the toys for the kids. The children want to spend the night at our house. We do not have children that age. I think it is inappropriate. My H says it is okay. He wants them to come one at the time, so they can feel special and valued.

Wow, I can't believe he is so blinded. My son said"Dad if you are doing right, why is our home like this?" My H said
"Don't you know God will divide homes to get his work done"

I need good advise. I am seeing a counselor, but they generally make you come up with your own answers. They just listen.

My H will not go to the Dr. He won't talk to anyone for advise or read a book on boundaries in marriage. He said that is all fluff and that he has the best book "the bible".
He also has the best counselor "Jesus".
We are now separated, I asked him to move out because I was loosing my mind.

By the way, I tried to speak with the mother and she is useless. She said in her culture separated means you are done. NO reconciliation. She advised me to have no contact and just email my husband. She said she has no contact with her husband and just lives with him to pay the bills.
She said he is a bad father etc....
I told my husband what she said, but he said "thats why they need help. They have problems and I need to help them."

I need advise.....

Is your husband having an affair?

I don't know what Bible he's reading but my Bible doesn't say that God will divide homes to get His work done. That goes against His character. I can't believe he would say such a thing to his son.

It seems obivous that his involvement goes far beyond helping a family in need. Don't you think that eating "Happy Meals" to get toys for the children is bizarre?

It's sad but he's not the first to manipulate God's Word to fit an agenda.

If you're not happy with your counselor, find another. I learned that the hard way. Please keep reading on this site. Have you considered exposing the situation to his martial arts school?

Ok, first let me say I am not really an expert. All I have done is read 2 books (but they were very good books!) and have some life experience. Having said that, your husband's behavior sounds very troubling, and is at the very least inappropriate.

If it were me in your situation, I would call up CPS and ask to talk to the social worker of the day. I would then say that my husband was showing some behaviors around children that I found troubling, but I really don't know that much about these things, and could they please help me out? Plead ignorance; it inspires people to be helpful.

Then just simply lay things out for them as you did on here and let them decide if it sounds odd. If they think further investigation is warrented they will send someone out to talk to the people involved. They keep the identity of the reporter very confidential, as well. What it boils down to is that if nothing is going on, nothing will come of it. But if something is going on and nobody ever does anything, then things will never get better, either.

I am curious. You said that he was kicked out of the church for this. Was it just for his behavior with this one family or were there other families he was "helping"? A family I know just reported someone in their family that they know for a fact was asked to leave several churches for inappropriate behavior. When the police ran his name, there was not a single complaint against him. That means that all those churches just let him walk away figuring he wasn't their problem anymore. He just went and found another church with more pretty little girls and started ruining more lives.

People with this problem don't "stop", they just move on to new victims. If your husband is fine, then that will come out. But if he isn't, he is ruining lives and needs to be stopped by someone, since he can't stop himself.

If you think it would be helpful, read "The Neaksis Thread: Spotting Child Molesters". A lot of people posted their experiences on there, and you might find it helps you find clarity in your own situation.

Also, I am assuming that you are a praying person, so start praying now for guidance in this, and that if you are to go to CPS that God will guide you to the right person. (someone nice!) I know that many others here will be praying for you, too.

Neaksis

Actually, Jesus did talk about division within the family, and said that a man's foes would be those of his own household...but the context was different and this little scenario the above gentleman has cooked up was definitely not what the Savior was speaking of. (Matthew 10:35-37; Luke 12:51-53) Faithfulness to Jesus often brings alienation between the believer and family members who choose another path. My son and his STBXW are good examples. If she'd just become a pagan, he'd be glad to live with her, because they still love each other. But his anger at God over the loss of several pregnancies has propelled him into (temporary!) atheism...and her faithfulness is a reproach to him. So there's division.

Jesus wasn't talking about abandoning one's own family to pursue another family in place of the one you've already got! It takes some Olympic-class mental gymnastics to "make it so".

t&l

No, I don't believe that he is. Not in a sexual way. I think he is having an "emotional affair". He is way to emotionally involved with these kids. He said that God told him to let people get closer to him. It is true he has always been a quiet reserved person who believed in structure and boundaries. Now, total opposite. He allows these children to crawl all over his truck and play with the radio. He actually encourages it.

We were sitting at a table at our Christmas party at the
martial arts school and a parent made a comment to her child who was playing with her food "I wish you would quit playing with your food and use your manners like a young adult." My H said to her "She will have plenty of time to act like an adult later".

I feel like he wants to be the "good guy" the pied piper
with the children. But he is also tied up with the adults.
It is really whoever will let him get real close. It seems to be about control. I tell him there are other children in class or wherever..they need help but are shy or don't come forward. I actually point them out. He says he feeds the sheep God sends him.

Thanks for your post.

My H knows the bible better than anyone I have ever met. He has read it over 15 times straight through. If you start a scripture, he can finish it and tell you where its found and who said it and what it meant etc.......However, sometimes it seems distorted from what I believe and have been told. It is so hard to deal with because he uses God to do what he wants. (fill his agenda)
I tell him that the bible says love your wives as God loved the church. And that your prayers are hindered if you don't.
My H says, yes but God disciplined the church. He has an answer for everything.
He said the church is lukewarm. Well it does say that in the bible in the latter days the church will become lukewarm. He says I am like them now..happy just being lukewarm. I don't want lukewarm, but I do want my family life to be a little "normal". If he is not off playing with these kids or doing his TKD (Tae Kwon Do) he is not happy.
He is especially attached to these particular kids because the parents allow him to pick them off, take them places, whatever he wants. The mother told me that if he leaves their lives, they will die. Manipulation!!!!! She lives in the same house with her husband but says she doesn't have anything to do with him. She advises me to leave my H alone to and just email for contact. This is the woman that invited my H to go with her and her children to Busch Gardens. My H thought it was okay......but didn't go because I didn't like it..where will it end.

Thanks for your post.

My H wasn't really kicked out of church, but was asked to step down from his sunday school teaching position. The pastors talked with him and explained they didn't think he was a team player and they had a few complaints about his playing around too much with the young people. I really felt sorry for him. I don't think he is doing anything bad.
I feel that Satan is leading him into a trap. He knows my husband has a heart for children. But why can't he see this.
I know "hes blinded". I have talked till I am blue in the face, not to mention argueing and crying too. He won't listen. He said he told God people wouldn't understand, and God said do it anyway.
There have been complaints at his TKD school too. But he curbed his behavior just a little to get them off his back.
He owns the school, so he does just what he wants..
My head stays in a fog, doubting myself so much. It seems to be innocent,but just absolutely no boundaries..
thanks......

I think you may be missing the point here, at least to a certain extent. (1) I don't care if he can quote Scripture backwards, sideways, and upside-down. It proves nothing but that he has the ability to retain words. Satan quoted Scripture to Jesus during the temptation in the wilderness, without in any way changing the essence of his nature. The Bible also says that Satan transforms himself into "an angel of light." So don't let yourself be buffaloed into accepting his behavior just because he knows texts well enough to repeat them. (2) A variety of very large red flags are being waved at you, including, but not limited to: having his actions with children recognized as "off" by more than one group of people, and being asked, or feeling the need, to back off because of it; involvement with a woman who not only admits to estrangement with her own husband, but then tries to get you to put emotional and mental distance between you and your own husband (with whom she wants to spend additional time); opposing parental authority in front of the child involved; intense involvement with children without their parents' frequent supervision or presence...

I was going to write a few more points of concern, but a patient just came in and she's all mine, unfortunately. I worry that you are unwilling to see clearly what is happening before you, because of the implications of what is going on. How terrible for you, if it turned out to be true. How much easier to avoid looking at it squarely in the face, than it is to examine what's happening and take action if needed, regardless of the consequences. You can read the Neaksis thread if you'd like to know why our family reacts so strongly to inappropriate adult activity with children, suggestive of the possibility of molestation. I'm sorry for what you're going through, but this situation still requires that somebody do some investigation, whether or not nuclear fallout results. The other option is even worse.

t&l

I have talked and quoted scripture to my H...like the idea that Satan knows the word well. I tell him to run from the appearance of evil.etc....
What would be my next step...an investigator? I know he takes these children, sometimes just one, home after martial arts class. I think it is inappropriate to be alone in the truck with a child (especially a girl). He takes them to get something to eat and then home I guess. It is usually late. Class is over by 8:30. They may hang out at class a few mintues till 9:00 or so. But the mothers cell phone # is on my bill for calls at 10:30pm on those nights.
That tells me that the children are out that late with him.

What would be my next step, that would mean necessarily ending my marriage yet? I need to have strong proof it there is something going on. I would always regret it if I were wrong.

You don't have to have strong proof just to make a report. It is up to others to do the investigating and to decide if there are any problems. All you have to have is a feeling that something is not right.

Your report will be confidential, so your husband does not have to find out you talked to anyone. If you talk to an investigator, whether CPS or local authorities, they can tell you whether or not the situation needs further attention. I am guessing that they will feel the need to investigate, but that is their job. You don't have to get involved if you don't want to.

My friend that just reported her brother-in-law had some of the same struggles with deciding to report or not. She didn't have any proof , just the knowledge that her daughter and brother-in-law were very "touchy-feely", he singled her out for a lot of attention, he had been asked to leave other churches for his excessive attention to the young ladies, and that one time when she had let her daughter spend the night he had her daughter, a 10 year old, sleep with him in his bed. She can't prove anything illegal happened, but it is enough to at least start an investigation that could reveal the truth.

What gets me about that situation is that she has told me about how several people in her family, including another brother-in-law and her father-in-law had warned her about this man. Several churches had felt the need to ask him to leave because of his inappropriate behavior. She had even warned her brother-in-law, "You're going to get caught one of these times if you keep having little kids over to spend the night." All these people saw a potential problem, but no one was willing to speak up in a way that actually mattered. So, he just kept on going like the Energizer Bunny, molesting more and more kids. Keeping quiet doesn't do anybody any favors. At least give someone the chance to find out.

Neaksis:
What exactly is CPS? Children Protection Services?
Can you report anonymously?
I keep hoping I am wrong about my concerns.He "was" such a good husband and father for years. His family was important.
Now he says they are grown and we don't follow him anyway.
I have asked him to pray with me and have bible studies like most families should. He just can't seem to do it. He has no interest in us. You can tell he is miserable around us. Could it be a "christian" type mid-life crisis? Maybe he wants to be needed and find a purpose. I just hate to believe anything is going on.
I read your thread about child molesters. My H fits the profile,but I can't help but think that Satan is involved blinding him and that he will get falsely accused. I know you might say I am the blind one. It all sounds really bad I am sure. But when you have been married 24 yrs it is hard to be convinced of this sort of thing.

Manipulated,
I typed this once and it did not go through. So as hard as it is I will do this again.
Your post is a big trigger for me and I am sure others.
I was not going to post on your thread, but another member here suggested that I might post to your thread for that reason.
I am a SURVIVOR of sexual abuse. I was molested from the time of I was 7.
Your post gave me the "willies". Your husbands behavior reminds me of a so called "family friend"
Child molestors prey on easy targets. A child from a dysfunctional family is the easiest and safe est for them to get to. Thier parents are preoccupied or sometimes just ignorant to the predators behavior. They look like saints to the family. Helping with groceries, meals, chores, transportation. Anything to get alone with a child. Then this child who is striving for any kind of attention, is left in thier "care". These children are the last ones to complain. No adult should have that much free time spent alone with anyones child. Would you have allowed that for your children when they were young? You need to think of it exactly that way. If this were your child?????
You should ALWAYS suspect first, verify second. Meaning, the thought should be in everyones mind whenever they leave thier child with an adult. I dont care if it is a parent or a family friend. If this thought saved one child from what I have gone through in my life, I would know I have done something to get into the pearly gates...
I am a catholic by birth, and let me tell you, if a priest can do that....ANYONE is suspect!
Please do the children a favor, make that anonomys call and pray for THEM
JE

I am very troubled by the "lag-time" between the end of the class, and the time the children arrive home. No man needs that much time to take some kids back to their mother. Can you have him followed by someone you trust, and someone careful enough not to get caught following, either? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

You have the sympathy of many here in your dilemma, and your mind's very understandable reluctance to wrap itself around the idea of your husband of many years possibly being a child molester. CPS (Child Protective Services) will keep your identity out of any investigation and report they make. I'm not sure it you can keep your identity secret from them. That may vary from state-to-state. If you decide to ask them what they think, make yourself a list of troubling behaviors ahead of time, so that you don't forget anything. It will be hard enough for you to make that initial call. You don't want to accidentally leave important stuff out so that you have to keep contacting them with additional details.

Feel free to seek help on this board. It's pretty hard to shock most of the people who post here, and there's lots of good advice to be had.

t&l

justempty,
Thank you for your post. I am sure it is painful to talk about your past regarding this situation. I know my H's behavior brings red flags,however, there are other factors.
When he began drifting, wondering what God wanted him to do that he wasn't currently doing, he started drifting from the family. He lost interest in his home etc... I asked and talked to him many times why he didn't want to interact anymore. I felt rejected. I questioned myself, my looks everything about "me". Things deteriated and I became depressed with mood swings of anger. He continued to get worse with isolation and behavior change. Of course I began to look like the "evil" one. All I want is my husband back the way he was years ago. He loved his boys and me and wanted to serve God and be a part of the Church. Now its like no one can tell him anything. He knows it all. It is judgmental of others and their walk with God. He thinks most Churches are lukewarm. I never thought he would go to this extreme.

Tonight he came by our house just for an hour or two. Usually he will stay being Friday night. But he said he wasn't feeling well and is going back to the apartment. He knows that hurts me. I feel rejected....He will get up early tomorrow (Sat)and go to a martial arts tournament all day. He stays out late (10:30 or later) on class nights but can't stay up and watch a movie with me. He is going further and further away. I feel responsible for some of this. The article on lovebusters tell sme a lot I have done wrong. I was hurt and then acted in anger. But I feel he has choosen other things or people over me. How can he be calling himself a Christian and say he has never been closer to God?

thndrnlitng:
I have been trying to think of someone that could follow my H. He works an hour away, but most of his questionable behavior is here in town. Our TKD school is here and so are the families he is close to. I just need to know the truth and clear my head. But if I find nothing, I still don't think I can handle this behavior. How can I allow him to go off by himself with kids. He said if they were his adopted children no one would say a thing. He said when you see someone on the street with a child you don't know if it is theirs. He said God wants us to take care of the children. That many are being neglected and walked by.

I know what he means, that one day a child could be a stranger and the next you could adopt them and they would be yours. Its makes just enough sense to confuse me.

I am not sure how anyone could follow him and see what is going on in his truck. When he takes the kids home (sometimes just "one" depending on who made it to TKD class)and stops and gets something to eat. How can you see what is going on in the truck? I get sick when I say that. I beg God to not let this be true. I am so sad and hurt. I have friends and family but they all have their own lives.

I am still tired from the cancer treatment and working 40+ hrs. I am getting a promotion on my job and taking on more responsibilies. I am so tired and weary.
Thanks for listening.

thndrnlitng
I typed and posted to you but it don't post.
I have tried to think of someone to help me in following my H. It would be hard to get details, as when he leaves the TKD school with the children (sometimes just one depending on if they all 3 came to class) they are in the truck and then go to eat. You can't see what goes on in the truck with the dark windows. I feel sick saying that. I need to know the truth. I beg God to end this mental torment.

He seems to be drifting further and further away from all of us. He never contacts any family. He said that anyone that wants to hear the word of God is his family. He likes the "special treatment" he gets at TKD. They all say how wonderful he is and gloat over hime. Most of the parents don't have a clue. There are some though that have made comments that has gotten back to me, that they don't like his behavior at all. They don't do anything much about it because they don't let their kids get that close of a relationship with him. They keep it strictly teacher/student.
I know a divorce will be devastating. He makes 3 times my money and is very shrewd. He went and paid off my car and has already got our income taxes ready to be filed. I feel he is getting ready to to something. He won't divorce me, but he might do something to hurt me and cause me to want a divorce. He says God hasn't given him permission to divorce me (yet). I think he will do something with the TKD school like add gymnastics. I am against that because of the contact he will have. Plus he has no background to teach this. But that won't stop him. I saw him looking on internet at the landing mats for gymnastics. He has several young instructors that he wants to put on payroll. I worked my behind off at the school for years. I worked through my radiation treatments and organized demos and parade floats.
I can't tell you the hours I have spent. I am hurt that he thinks these young people need to be put on payroll for work they are suppose to do anyway to get their next belt promotion. As instructors they have to put in hours instructing etc....He has a 20 yr old young girl that he wanted to let come to our house and work on bookwork etc..
on our computer. I said absolutely not. I said what is next giving her a key. He said, what would be wrong with that? Where are his boundaries? He is not just after children....just anyone to control and get close to.

I've read and reread your posts. Believe me, you have our sympathy and as much understanding as we can give having not gone through it ourselves. You have said several times how confused you are, how you doubt yourself and your instincts on this. I know just a fraction of that from my experience with the ECM on the camping trip.

Everything that he did had an innocent explanation. Some of them were a bigger stretch than others, but each time you could convince yourself that it was all in your head. Since that is what anyone wants to think, it is easy to close your eyes to things and sink back into comfortable oblivion. I felt that tug all weekend, even though I had no emotional investment in this man; he was a virtual stranger that I had no history with.

But when odd behaviors start to pile up, one thing after another, it becomes too much of a stretch to assume that things are innocent. I am not saying that is the case with your husband, but it is at least a question that needs to be faced.

I have found this helpful to give me clarity when I am feeling confused. I picture one of the most trustworthy, proper men I know (which in my case is the head elder at our church) doing the things I'm wondering about. Usually that helps me to get some perspective on whether or not it is normal, acceptable behavior. Don't get me wrong, either. This head elder loves kids and plays with them, he just always keeps good bounderies with them.

If there is someone like that in your circle of aquaintances, use him for a little mental check. It can help you see things in a fresh light. I

I am still praying for you. I wish there was something more concrete I could do for you, but you can know that you are in my thoughts and I am sure in the thoughts and prayers of many others on this board.

Neaksis:
I understand what you are saying about comparing my husbands behavior to a man that I think highly of and respect. You know, that use to "be" my husband. I compared him to others and he always was the "better" man. I use to think he could walk on water. Other women would tell me I was so lucky to have such a good christian husband. But now something is defintely wrong. But I still doubt myself somehow.

Its true life is not fair I guess. From the day we got married we have had trials, but all on the outside of our family walls. My father walked me down the aisle and never came home to my mother. I have two brothers that are drug addicts. Its like most families one thing after another. I feel like I could write a book.

I have been at the point of not wanting to live many times,
but God pulls me back. I have a testimony I feel that one day I will be able to put in words and maybe help someone else.

I'll post to you tomorrow, but since I've been up for 26 hrs. on the strength of a 2-hr. nap, I'm packing it in for tonight. We'll be praying for you. Neak and Neaksis both have things to say. Maybe they'll have time tonight after the kiddies are in bed, and old Granny is asleep, too.

t&l

There are other options possible if you could find someone to follow him, who could see if he stops anywhere with the child/children, but it just seems to me the easiest thing would be to report it to CPS or the police. At that point it becomes their problem to investigate, and see if they think there is enough to warrant follow-up.

The initial phone call would be difficult, but you could dump it anonymously in someone else's lap and wait to see what happened. They are bound by law to investigate, and if your H is innocent, he will be cleared.

This must be so hard for you, and you are very brave to be willing to even consider this awful possibility.

PS - You have made mistakes, and so has everyone else, but NOT EVERYTHING IS YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!!

enough and let's for a moment stop talking about the Bible here and deal with the facts that have arisen and the fact that NOWHERE in your post do you talk about your marital relationship as a WIFE with your H.

1)have you stopped having sex?
2)has over the years, the man exhibited peculiar behaviors such as this?
3)any abuse in his family?

his actions are MORE than way out there to me. he is possibly involved in something that is considered in this country a crime.

it's wacked out. nobody leaves their own family to go and play "pretend family" with somebody else...

and what with the people at his martial arts school? he says those can be his family?

I am wondering...have you really spoken w/your kids? has the man done something at home that you could be unaware of?

if it walks like a duck...quacks like a duck...it's probably a duck.

and yes...many people who are Christians, including ministers, have affairs and commit horrid crimes such as child abuse.

my xh is supposedly a Christian...yet over the last four years this supposed christian had two torrid affairs, moved one woman in immediately after our separation and got her pregnant and married her three days after our d was final. he partied like there was no tomorrow and did some drugs also...this guy, my xh, never did any of those things prior to his "fall from grace".

but it happens.

and what do you do? easy. first you take care of your kids...your kids. second you assess the marriage. when did your H "check out" of the marriage?

you give situations here, but very little about YOUR MARRIAGE...so we can't help there.

but if this man could be an abuser...he needs to get away from the kids now...cps needs to be called.

and he doesn't need to be around your kids either.

Manipulated, you asked a few posts back if reporting this would "end" your marriage. Sweetie, I want to suggest to you , ever-so-gently, you don't have a marriage to lose. You may not have a divorce right now, either, but you certainly don't have a husband-wife relationship--not with a man who is doing the things he is doing, whether or not actual criminal activity is involved. He has already left you physically, emotionally, mentally. He could still leave you legally, but he wouldn't be any farther away from you then, in any meaningful sense, than he already is now.

The other thought that occurred to my daughters and me, and which we discussed together, Neak has already briefly alluded to in her post--and that is his efforts to make you feel responsible for his estrangement with you. You don't understand his calling from God. You're too spiritually blind to see the importance of what God is asking him to do for these neglgected children. You're too selfish to share him with others in the way God has called him to do. It's a classic fog technique for a person who is doing somethng wrong to try and throw other people off-stride, and if possible, even make them blame themselves for the whole problem. In your husband's case, he's added his theoretical knowledge of the Bible (NOT played out in any genuine, practical way in his life, let me add) to make you question your spirituality as well. Very, very clever technique. Give him credit. He's got you confused about about east/west, up/down, right/wrong, as if YOU were the guilty party.

Whether or not it turns out that your husband is committing criminal offenses, if the people on this board can help you get your mental and emotional equilibrium back again, so you can look at what's happening to you and say, "I don't deserve to be treated like this. Enough is enough!", I think it will be a blessing for you that you came to this site and asked for advice.

t&l

Just wanted to say that nothing disrespectful, demeaning, or patronizing was meant by that "Sweetie" that I called you. When Neak, Neakbro, Flard, and Neaksis were little, it turned out that whenever I called them "Sweetie" I either had a job for them, or was going to tell them something they didn't want to hear. They recognized my habit before I was ever aware of it, and it soon became a family joke. "NeakSweetie!" "What is it you want me to do, Mom?"

In your case, we're not only talking about a job to do, but an unpleasant one, besides. Force of habit, I guess. Sorry.

t&l

T&L

I just wantd to say...

your "assessment" is something I totally agree with.... stinks like a skunk...

M100x's,

I think your husband is being thoroughly decieved. His relationships to the children at his job are very inappropriate, if anything. God does not divide families to do His work.

Have you talked with your pastor concerning these things.
I think you need to get more people involved in investigating your H, possibly the elders could help, and help where to lead you in all this. Something is not right with him. I am concerned about the children,
not saying he is hurting them, I just don't know. But if your H was in his right mind he wouldn't be doing those things.


And who does that woman think she is telling you to email your H. She doesn't want you contacting your own H for some reason.???? Have you contacted her H??? I would call him and tell him what she said..that they don't have contact, and he is only there to pay the bills. And would he let his children go alone in a truck with a man he doesn't know?

This situation is close to my heart because way back when my DD was around 11yrs old, a childrens teacher from church used to take my DD and her friend at times swimming, and after they would go to pizza. I was a single mother back then and tired and thought this guy loved children and meant well to help. Well, one particular time, I had a bad feeling when she was out with him, and I questioned her when she got home what they did. She said they went swimming and then to pizza, at pizza he talked about sex and boys. I was very upset and shocked. I called my pastor the next day, and told him this guy has no right talking to my child about such things, that is my place at the right time and age. Pastor agreed and talked to the teacher. I never let my children go with that man again, and no one else for that matter. It makes me very leary.
The childrens ministry was huge at that time, but after that it had dwindled down to only a few children. That teacher left that church just over a year ago. I have always had bad vibes since then about him. He still continues to pick up little girls and take them places, little girls and boys that come from poor families, and has has had them spend the night at his home. These little children go nowhere, so they jump on the chance to get away. So sad.

But anyways, I think your H at least needs to be investigated. In his profession he should never be alone with a child of another family without another adult present for accountability reasons. So this does look very suspicious to me.

Blessings,
Lady

As the mother of a molested child - molested by her own cousin - I know I was blind to things other people might have seen. But, I was so close to both these people that I couldn't see.

I regret my inability to see more and to take action.

The hospital to which my daughter first reported her abuse was bound by law to report it. I called to inquire about the report and they could not give me information. They took my report and, within days, investigations were under way. Literally, within a couple of weeks.

If you think something is wierd, it probably is.

It's hard to report a family member....it was hard to report my nephew. It was hard to pump my sister, her husband, my niece, my mom, my nephew to learn what I needed to know. I will be the first to say that.

But, I knew I had to for my daughter.

I will go to my grave regretting that the abuse happened, regretting that I didn't see it sooner.

But, I will go to my grave glad I did what I was supposed to do....that I helped my daughter.....that she got the help she needed.

Don't let someone else's child possibly suffer.

If you think there is something going on, you need to report it. A bad case of the willies is not evidence but it is something to which you should pay attention. Unfortunately, I didn't.

In my state, a person who has evidence of abuse or neglect and does not report it can be considered criminally liable.

just peachy:
My children are grown (19 & 23)men. One in the Navy the other still at home. They are aware of the problems but because I was depressed, angry etc...for a while my younger son sometimes says that I ran his dad off. Other times he say that yes "Dad is obsessed with helping people especially this one family". But he says that I am jealous.
My son did say that the "mother" is ridiculous and just wants to be a victim and uses the crutch no one likes her children because they are bi-racial. She says she can't keep a job because she is an educated black woman. I felt like saying "Let me take you around and see how many educated black women are working."
We are separated but trying to reconcile on a beginning level. He comes by to have dinner, sometimes staying on the weekend and going to the new church we are trying to attend. He seems uneasy but I know he is hurt. I pretty much told him how I felt it looked going off with the kids ,
especially taking one girl off to shoot pool etc....He feels I have demeaned him or started problems,rumors...but really his behavior did all that.
Sometimes things are okay, but I think those are days when I decide to put it out of my mind. If he were to come to tell me he was going off with the mother and kids I would just be fuming. The husband is "friends" with my husband. He is super passive and really doesn't care much or spend any "Dad" time with his kids. He would rather let my husband do that. Ridiculous! They are both sorry parents to me. The mother says to much to the children (7 yr boy,
10 yrs girl 13 yrs girl) about that if someone is mean to them it is because of their skin color. She has older children too. The 16 yr daughter has a live in boyfriend.

I have to run an errand. I will post again a little later.

ladysheep,
Yes I have talked with our "old"pastor at our "old"church.
I also counseled with his wife. They were supportive but like most people don't have an answer. My H was asked to step down from his position of sunday school teacher. Also my H doesn't know I spoke with the pastor or his wife. He would absolutely disown me (I know he already has right).
I just am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. I had a pastor (one from years back that new my husband prior to his "change")tell me that he may be so pure in heart about his intentions that he is nieve about what could happen. I can see how that would be true maybe, but he even said he told God that people would not like his behavior if he did what he asked him to do(let people get closer to him)and he said God said do it anyway.

I went to a seminar today at my old church. "Restoring a broken heart". It was great! It talked about codependency
denial,anger, depression, bargaining and acceptance. All the stages of recovery of a broken heart or broken relationship of some kind. Several things finally clicked in my head. I see things a little different. I am defintely codependent. I am really trying to work on that.

I guess I am hoping God can turn this around and make things all better. I know I have seen him do that before in other homes. What not mine? Just not ready to throw in the towel yet....not today anyway...maybe tomorrow..who knows..

cinderella,
I know I need to investigate further his activity after class..I will look in to how to do that...
The martial arts school is a part time thing, although it takes up A LOT OF TIME!!!!!!!He has a regular fulltime job
that supports our family well. I worry he will quit that to do the martial arts fulltime..He has mentioned that before. I feel he is going to make a change real soon. He will be vested at work in a few months. I fell he might do something then. He wants to add gymnastics to our school.
By the way, he called his instructors/blackbelts in and told them we were separated. I thought that was odd.It really hurt me.They are my friends too. I have been heavily involved in the school for 10 years. Five years we have owned it. The first five my boys were involved taking lessons. I really regret ever buying the school. But I guess it was going on at the church too. It seems like he started searching for God to tell him what to do with his life. Christian Mid-life crisis I guess. This went on for about 6 yrs slowly building to this mess...
I take responsbility for my reactions. At first, I thought there was something wrong with me. My looks, etc....Why else would your husband spend more time with other people.
I got depressed,then angry..really angry. When he finally
told me that one little girl wanted to spend the night at our house, but he couldn't let her because I would not allow it, I said thats it. I told him to get out and get his head straight. He kept saying he couldn't think around me. That I got between him and God. I thought it would be short term, one/two months maybe. It is now into three almost four months. He seems to like it. I was afraid of that.He has a personality that if you say go, he goes. He doesn't ask to come back. I was wrong I guess.

I can't be responsible for his actions. Other parents are aware of this too. Some have made comments..I think that I keep him balanced in their eyes. They probably say "well he may look odd, but gee hes married, surely his wife would do something if things weren't right".

Most people think I don't go to the school because I had breast cancer last year. They think I am still sick. Not true. I bounced back, thank the Lord and so far I am doing well. My H wasn't there for me at all. Never fixed a meal for me. We were still leaving together then. That is a major hurt that is really hard to let go.

I appreciate the advise and support

I'm wondering if this might be a kind of mid-life crisis. I know it could be something else, but kind of reminds me of my WH right before he had his affair.

I'm sure he was going through a mid-life crisis. He started getting real crazy about my step-kids' mom's little boy. He went way out of his way to protect that child, although not from his mom who was the real threat. Mom is a drug addict, and gave up 2 kids to my husband, 1 was taken by court and given to his father, 2 girls were sexually abused.

That left her with 1 little boy who was a year old at the time. My WH just went a little coo-coo with this little guy. He had to be included with everything - even taken to parties we went to where children were not invited. It was the strangest thing.

If Manipulated were to take your advice to heart--reporting her husband for his questionable behavior, and requesting an investigation of him--I think it would, at the very least, be fair for her to ask you, "Why haven't you reported this man yourself?", when you know what happened to your own daughter.

t&l

One more thing...about someone following him. I was more thinking that it might be instructive to see what happens in those blank hours between the time class is over, and the time the kids get home. He SAYS he takes them to eat. Does he really? Do they go to a motel? To his apartment? To some secluded area to park? It's not necessary to see everything that goes on in the truck, in order to make an assessment. If 2 heads are visible in the rear window while the truck is driving, and one disappears when the truck is parked, certain inferences can be made, even in the absence of visual confirmation.

Every religious shyster I've ever heard of, used the Bible and his own alleged spirituality as a cloak for his misdeeds. Your husband, if this is what he is also doing, is certainly not the first. Unfortunately, he wouldn't be the last, either. Yes, he would be ballistically angry if you reported him. But if he's involved inappropriately with children (even if it hasn't progressed to physical contact yet), you can't build a relationship with him anyway, however hard you may try. Who can you talk to that you trust completely not to betray you?

I'm sorry about your sons' attitude towards you. I'm sure it doesn't help. But they're young; there's still lots they don't understand, even though they don't know it yet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. And love for a father is hard to uproot out of a boy's heart.

t&l

What about a voice activated recorder in the truck until you could line up someone to follow him?

I wondered about that, but if he doesn't live with her, but only comes over to visit, I think it'd be hard to sneak off and plant something without him wondering where on earth she'd gone. If she got caught, and had to come up with an explanation, how awkward would THAT be?

t&l

Well another weekend as come and gone and another arguement too. Same material over and over that we don't see eye to eye on. The weekend started out pretty good, as long as we don't talk about "the subject" we are okay. We got up and started getting ready to go to the "new"church we have been attending some and somehow got on the subject of the TKD (Tae Kwon DO Martial Arts)school. Things escalated pretty quick, but I am much better about staying in control of my anger now. Can't say the same for him. Bottom line is that he wants to let this 20 yr old girl take over the school and he possibly start a new one. Granted she seems to be a good person, I know a little about her family etc...however this is ridiculous. She already took over my job in the office of the school with the money;receipting; ordering etc....By the way she is homeschooled and hasn't graduated yet. Her mother wants to keep getting child support. It was written that she receive it till the girl has graduated school. My son at 19 gets told all the time "When I was 18 no one was paying my bills I was in the army". Guess what he said that one too many times. My son joined the army last May. Joined the same jump school,ranger school etc.(to prove a point I am sure). However, he had a medical problem and came home on a medical discharge. Why doesn't he tell her to join the army...(my other son is in the navy)


By the way he commented that the profits are way down. No gear etc. has been sold in months. DUH!! I haven't been involved in months. When I was there, parents would stop me coming and going asking questions about gear, books, uniforms etc...Our sales were good. I promoted special sales and gave people deals or payment plans. They would line up at the office door when I came in the room. Sometimes they would just hand me a check as I walked by.I had a great repore with the families. I don't guess this is happening now. He doesn't care. He said if he gets down to 10 students, those must be the ones God wanted him to reach. He had around 80 students when I quit going up there. He now has about 45. He gives me no credit at all.

I guess I voice my opinion to much. I don't know. He seems to think that. But the behavior at the school was driving me crazy. When we first bought the school he brought his blackbelts/instructors in and told them the rules. NO sexual harassment; improper touching or crude jokes. Be careful how you handle students especially women. etc. etc. etc. Now, its a different story. I couldn't stand the way kids,Mainly girls, crawled all over him. They sat in his lap,rode on his shoulders etc..He would buy a candy bar and break off pieces and feed it to them. I couldn't stand it. When he does situps, he lets them hold his feet. Then he holds theirs. I guess I am just crazy and jealous. Maybe that is okay and I am wrong.

The parents of some of the children drop them off early knowing he will "take care of them". When he arrives in his truck, they immediately open the truck and jump in looking for candy etc...


He doesn't display any other behavior, like with women per say. He is very compassionate about problems when they tell him. Always lending a kind ear.

Back to the arguement: He still feels there is nothing wrong with his behavior. He said that there isn't really anything wrong with him going to Busch Gardens with that woman and her kids. He tries to compare it to other times we have gone off. Once my back went out and we had been invited to go with a family to Busch Gardens. I told him to go anyway and take our boys. But the fact is that both adults were there of the other family. Also, we have known this family for years and they were not estranged like this family he was to go with. He said if the adults are all okay with it whats the problem. I told him he needs to cut contact with the parents. He can help the children during "class hours". The mother isn't even working. She needs to get off her lazy butt and pick them up instead of him taking them home. She hasn't worked in 8 months and is receiving financial aid. The dad is a security officer supposedly working long hours. So what! We have all done the same thing at some point in our lives. I am sick of excuses. They need to "man up" as they say and do the right thing. They need to be the responsible parents of these kids. My H is an enabler. I told him he is dividing two homes. The mother said to me that "if your H leaves my childrens lives they will die". She also said that her H is sorry and not a good dad. Sounds like to me that my H makes her H look bad. He is coming between them. Not to mention keeping them from doing the right thing.

My H says that I am willing to sacrifice the children in all this. It is not their fault. SORRY!! DON"T SEE IT THAT
WAY!. What about my family....

You will love this: My H said "again" that the reason for all this is that God said Feed My Sheep. Feed the ones that I send you. I said "Yes you have said that now for a few years, and what about your own son(that at the time this started was in his teen years needing a dad desperately).

And I Quote from my H "He is not a sheep that God sent me"

I lost all the air in my lungs and just stared at him ready to just cry. He said "Just forget it, you don't even know what I mean". I assume he means my son might not have listened to him. Thats a big thing with my H. He thinks if people listen then they are the sheep and are responding.
I say "You don't stop trying just because they aren't listening". That was HIS flesh and blood biological born son. What is he thinking?????You don't stop trying...

He just turned and walked out of the house, got in his truck and left to go back to his apartment.
I am sad..but so mad too. How dare he say that. I wouldn't dare tell my son..it would only hurt him.

Manipulated,
I can see your pain and I am so sorry.
I keep being pulled into your thread. I can not help it at this point. I see many injustices happening and most of us, including myself, are focusing on the children he is with.

WE all make choices in life. Some good, some bad.
You have a choice as does he. You can choose to keep working on a marriage or stop working on it and walk.

You also have the same type of choice with reporting his behavior with the kids. You can choose to get involved with maybe helping one of Gods sheep or just keep your eyes closed and look the other way.

I do not like to judge people, but I cant help getting not only angry with him, but you too. Your weird feelings, the church, and other people keeping him away from thier kids is way to "DAM@" many coinsidences for me. How can everyone just turn thier cheek on these innocent children. Just because the parents have thier heads up thier behinds, doesnt make it right. IF he is innocent, then I will gladly appologize for pushing you. Can you not call anonomously? Have someone else call for you? Hire a PI?

I would hope that a christian woman and mother would want to protect all of Gods children. Yours, thiers, and mine.
I would hope that someone would step up and protect my children and I am sure that you would too.

I see how much pain you are in, I really do. He is alienating himself, blaming you, and everyone else. He is in a FOG of some sort. I just cant see God doing that to anyone.
Go back and read your posts. It is chilling to me. Sorry.
JE

just empty:
Sorry I am making you angry. I have anger too. But you don't have the conversations at length with my H. You don't have 24 years of marriage either.

If I thought there was actually something going on with the children I would take the next step. I believe he is blinded and like you said in a fog. I think he could easily be accused of something he didn't do.

Seems like I am going to be responsible for all of this one way or another.

No I dont have the 24 years of marriage and I dont have conversations with him. I would love to converse with him though....
I DO have 27 years of a life with major pains from what a "good, helpful, loving" man did to me. His wife knew something was wrong with him, but didnt suspect THAT! Those were the words she spoke to me in apology after calling me a liar and tramp at the age of 9 when I exposed him for what he was. He did all of the same behaviors that your husband did with girls in our area. My father died when I was 3. My mom had 4 children and was virtually homeless when he decided that there was a calling by GOD to help the poor little lambs. He molded my mother first. Helping with electricity, groceries, etc. Then began with my older sisters and eventually me. He acted like a father in the beginning. Protective, loving, kind, gentle. What child of 7 doesnt love something like that when you have had no father in your life. He preyed on little girls. Set it all up each and everyone of us. And his wife knew but chose to do nothing. Now there are 13 of us that I know of grown women who live with this everyday, and 1 girl, my best friend who is dead because of him. She committed suicide when she was 16 because of the flashbacks of him.
I only hope that you are right and I am wrong for all people involved.

Personally, I still think this is a mid-life crisis type thing. Your husband sounds so much like mine. Mine was way out there.

believer,
Yes I do think more on the line of a "Christian Mid-life crisis". If you could hear him talk. He is angry with the church that it is too lukewarm not doing enough for people.
He remembers things like a woman that came to the church for help when her husband walked out and she couldn't pay the light bill. She was a member and had paid her tithe there. My H and I stepped in and paid her bill when the church would not. We remember when seeing people in town and saying "Haven't seen your lately at church?" and they replied "haven't been there in six months and no one has called or cared". These are the hurts he has against the church. Our youngest son, now 19, had tremendous hurts and from the youth pastors own son.It was constant ridicule and put down..for years..My son kept coming to church. At age 16-17 he would sit in the balcony by himself. He was approached and told he needed to sit downstairs with the "youth group". He quit coming. I can see the hurt but don't have an answer. I try to forgive and forget. I try to focus on getting over it all and not dwell on it. I know my H is right about somethings. But other things he is so far out there, that I can't even begin to reach him.

I am so afraid it is over, really over.

believer,
I forgot to ask, what is your status now. You said your husband "was" way out there. What happened exactly?